Azgirl-Fed up with meds

[Azgirl]

Hi, I'm Azgirl, found the forum and beyond meds at the same time. I was on celexa 30 mg and clonazepam for sleep for ten years with the only real issue being insomnia and breakthrough Pms. I tapered off celexa over a six week period ending in march 2012 and was doing fine.

 

Unfortunately I was taking Percocet for sciatica pain. After a couple of months my gdoc dc's Percocet and told me I was dependent . That didn't go too well . At a visit to my pdoc she suggested 20 mg of Prozac to help get me out of a post narcotic slump. I was climbing the walls after one day and it resulted in bad insomnia. So she dc.d it immediately .

 

A week later I had to take a plan b pill from a broken condom incident , I have always turned into a raging depressive when on any type of hormones and I had a meltdown..and a very bad period. I noticed sharp abdominal pain and went to the ER found out I had an ovarian cyst, put back on Percocet. I was under a lot of stress related work at the time and the pain was constant, I was crying almost every day and had extreme irritability. In desperation I called the pdoc.

 

I'm not sure she fully understood what hormones can do to me. Without any further assessment or questioning she dx me with bipolar. She started me at 25 mg lamictal and gave me seroquel to use prn then she went on vacation. I'm not sure why she didn't just put me back on celexa. We titrated slowly on lamictal and it did help with what was either relapse or hormones. I took just a tiny bit of quel at night and each morning my body ached so bad and it took a few hours to wake up.

 

Got me to 100 mg lamictal around early September. I was on vacation so was doing alright. Once I got back to work the stress hit again but I started feeling unmotivated, stopped socializing , stopped doing the fun stuff I enjoyed and would spend half the day in bed. She suggested trying Prozac again since the quel was helping me sleep she thought it would activate me.

 

Last week I ended up in the ER surrounded by staff that hadn't a clue what was going on. My pdoc showed up at 9 am and told me it was serotonin syndrome and gave me cogentin to slow down the side effects. Worst night of my life. Upon discharge she did not tell me if I should take the cog once or twice a day as stated on the bottle. I tried to call her but she didn't call back .

 

Two days later the psych on call returned my messages to tell me to keep taking cog i told him I was not able to walk very well and my eyes were so dilated that light hurt. The following day she called me back I told her what happened and she said it was anticholinergic toxicity and to stop taking it. Two more days in bed no appetite felt horrible. It cleared up and I had a good day considering the hell the last week was.

 

I was so paranoid of taking more pills so I stopped taking the cogentin and seroquel and was just on lamictal and clonazepam . I lost trust in her and started to question if I was really bipolar. This past Friday we had a phone appt and she told me to go down to lamictal 50 mg she said there would be no side effects. But I woke up at 3 am today feeling electric zaps and dizziness. So I went back to 75 and spent the day in bed.

 

Felt some anxiety and irritability today but I'm tired of being in bed. I also noticed since I started the lamictal I get pretty bad leg pain, I'm a total wreck. Eating and showering are huge tasks. My ex husband is no support and says its all in my head and hes the only family I have here. I don't know what to do and feel like I can't trust my doc.

[dalsaan]

Hi Azgirl

 

Welcome to the site. I'm sorry to hear you have had such a hard time and with so little support. Given all your changes in medication, it's no wonder your nervous system is objecting

 

There is a lot of info available on the site and I recommend you browse through it. Here is a link to a discussion on tapering lamicta Tapering lamictal

 

I don't know too much about your meds but I expect that others will chip in

 

I wish you all the best

 

Dalsaan

[Altostrata]

Hi, AZgirl, welcome.

 

Are you still taking clonazepam? If not, how did you go off it? When you say a tiny bit of Seroquel, how much is that?

 

How has your sleep been since you stopped Seroquel?

 

It sounds like you are sensitive to dosage reductions in Lamictal. When you are at 100mg Lamictal, do you have any side effects?

 

By now you've probably realized your pdoc is not a good doctor. I doubt her diagnosis of bipolar disorder is correct.

[Azgirl]

Hi all thanks for the welcome.

 

Yes I'm still taking clonazepam 2 mg every night, I was able to reduce to one mg when on quel. Now that ive dc'd the quel I'm back to two mg clonazepam sleep is ok if I go to bed when I'm sleepy and don't try to force sleep.

 

Side effects on lamictal were leg pain both legs, loss of motivation , stopped socializing, lost interest , zero libido . Trouble finding the right words..when I was first started I did feel a bump out of the horrible despair and over a few weeks time I was calm, not as overwhelmed with work but it was still an effort to do anything.

 

I just called her office to report that going down to lamictal 50 mg left me feeling similar to SSRI withdrawal. I tried to ride it out but ended up going back up to 100 mg . Yes I must be extra sensitive to lamictal tapering. But I also went off Prozac and quel so maybe that's making it worse.

 

And you're right I don't want to stick with her for treatment but my insurance plan is limited to just a couple other docs. She's also monitoring me and making medical notes as I just filed for medical leave from my job. I can find a doc and pay out of pocket but I'm looking at a six week wait.

 

I never did understand why she dx me with bipolar so quickly and during that time of depression she just simply didn't try to reintroduce celexa until I felt stable again and then tapered off slower. It's ruining my life all this back and forth. I refuse to try out any lamictal substitutes and have the added task of getting off those.

 

I'm very anti med now but realize once I bit in I have the consequence of getting off of them all . Thanks for the support the pro med forum just suggests a new cocktail

[Altostrata]

Okay, this is only my amateur opinion, I'm not a doctor:

 

I think your fast discontinuation from Celexa might have made your nervous system a little sensitive, which often happens with withdrawal from psychiatric drugs. If you hadn't had the nervous system upset with the Percocet and then Prozac, which made it worse, your nervous system might have stabilized and you might not have had further problems with the hypersensitivity.

 

Lamotrigine can indeed reduce nervous system hyper-reactivity, that's how it works as an anti-seizure medication. But if you take too much of it, it can have adverse and sometimes paradoxical effects, even wakefulness, as your nervous system struggles against it.

 

If I were you, I'd reduce it, carefully, by small amounts as close to 10% as possible. Stop at the lowest dosage effective to reduce your nervous system hyper-reactivity. Then you might work on reducing the benzo.

 

Lamotrigine comes in 25mg tablets. Do you think you can get this doctor to write your prescription for 4 25mg tablets per day, maybe to be taken twice a day (this is common with lamotrigine)? Then you can cut the tablets into quarters and reduce by 6.25mg at a time.

 

Otherwise, you could make a liquid yourself from the tablets, and use an oral syringe to measure out your dosage.

[basildev]

Hi Azgirl,

 

welcome to the forum.

 

You've had quite a bad ride haven't you?

 

This forum is great for information and support.

 

I hope you recover soon.

[Barbarannamated]

AZGirl,

 

You've been through a terrible wild ride. It's very difficult having your only *support* not believe you. This group has been my sole support. I'm glad you found it.

 

I had a scary depressive reaction to a single dose of progesterone (Prometrium) and understand your fear. I don't know if it was somehow related to psych drugs/withdrawal sensitivity.

 

You're getting the best guidance. Hang in there.

[Azgirl]

Hi all, I wanted to come back and update and forgive me if I miss answering any questions asked..I'll try to be thorough.

 

I'll list the current cocktail (I hate that word) and then give additional info..

 

Current: 150mg Wellbutrin (started approx two weeks ago), 100mg Lamictal, 2mg Clonazepam at night, 12.5 mg Seroquel prn night, 5/325 Percocet prn.

 

It has indeed been a ahem memorable ride and I have disgust with myself and anger at trusted care professionals, but those feelings are temporary and don't help much. Over the last week I have practiced a simple meditation every day for at least 20 minutes (last night I cuddled with my five year old and asked him to think about a gold light too..he fell asleep

 

Physical activity has been increasing, I wouldn't call it exercise but I've been out doing more and feel a bit like my old self again.

 

* I'm not sure if I had any side effects from Lamictal or not, I think the body has been tossed around so much I don't know what was what. After recovering from SS (and the abrupt dc of Prozac), then pulling out of the Cogentin toxicity, she had asked me to reduce Lamictal to 50 mg..I did that as mentioned and felt horrible. In hindsight maybe I was still recovering from the hospital aftermath.

 

Yes, I'm still taking Clonazepam for sleep..most nights it works. I've been able to use the Seroquel only on nights where I wasn't getting to sleep. I'm at a tiny dose but history shows me I'm a complete light weight.

 

After the "recovery" time pdoc wanted to try Wellbutrin to help the lingering lethargy and lack of pleasure. Again at this point I felt powerless , a puppet desperate to be able to get up and do my work . She started me at 100mg in the am and over a week increased so I'm taking 100mg in the am and 50 in the afternoon.

 

I must admit however wrong this may be that the Wellbutrin made me feel outright awesome. From the first dose..but I also felt how they describe manic. I was out of bed, hiking, going to the movies, talking excitedly, giggling over anything. No other changes to meds were done. The honeymoon phase I hear of with Wellbutrin stopped a few days ago. I still feel glad to be out of bed and able to do daily functions. Sleep has been alright.

 

Feels like I took three steps back to achieve what I could have fought for with stability without meds. Again at this point I'm desperate and have to find a way to keep going for the sake of my son and my job.

 

A few days ago I had a day of crying alternating with laughter. I couldn't stop talking to myself. Didn't feel reckless, dangerous, anything like that. Just felt as if I'd chugged ten espresso. Next day more crying. Following day was hyper again. It "feels" like the effects have leveled off a bit but I know I haven't reached the six week hallmark. Oh..doc's reasoning is that I must be very sensitive to serotonin meds so she tried the dopamine one. My sex drive is thru the roof.

 

STILL not pleased about being on so many meds but after reading thru this forum I understand the need to feel stable before tackling them.

 

Another problem surfaces, for the last three days I have had electric zaps so bad, when I hear a loud noise my head literally zaps with the noise. I feel dizzy and very sick to my stomach. It felt EXACTLY like it feels when one goes off SSRI..I mentioned this to my doc (this has been going on since I started WB but got worse over the last few days)..she just said "Huh" ..I pressed the issue, asked if it could be W/D from Prozac, she said it WAsn't Possible (wtf?)

 

So as of right now I'm dealing with zaps and nausea, vertigo and headaches. When looking back over my journal, the crying spells happened at the same time prozac was dc'd the first time. Today I feel ok so far.

Am I screwed? I understand immediate dc from a drug is needed (as in this case prozac resulting in SS) so I'll just have to tough out the symptoms of W/D assuming its the dc of prozac causing it?

 

That's pretty up to date, as mentioned I've been reading a lot of articles and forum posts on this site. Given my current cocktail, what would you do? If I'm correct from reading previous posts, it appears that riding out the W/D from Prozac until I feel 'stable' whatever that means anymore. And then start tapering the most 'harmful' drugs which I'm guessing is Lamictal. By the way I read that post that Lamictal should not be introduced during SSRI W/D which is what happened to me the first time I DC'D the prozac abruptly. I want to print up the paper and shove it down my doctor's throat. I KNEW when I took that first Lamictal pill it was the wrong thing to do. I just felt it. I'm not a doctor obviously (but I'm not into trusting them much anymore) but after the abrupt DC of prozac the first time, my thinking was to put me back on a low dose of celexa to help with the breakdown/crying/I'm not going to make it out of this feeling.

 

I felt an immediate effect on the WB, that horrid leg pain vanished overnight. I hate my bed and like the outdoors again. I've been out on a few social events. I'm not home in bed at dark every night anymore. I'm not tooting it as the savior but for the sake of my child I'm glad I can make it to the store, despite the nausea and head zaps still lingering.

 

Am so thankful to have found this forum. In other forums I find a lot of members on so many pills at such high doses and they STILL have depression or symptoms, my heart aches for them.

 

 

Given the current situation and the fact that I go back to work the first week of December, what would you do first?

thanks again

AZ

[Azgirl]

yes..the Lamictal is in 25 mg pills and I have a pill cutter (and not scared to use it)

[Altostrata]

Wellbutrin can be rough on someone with a sensitized nervous system. It is a noradrenergic, which drives adrenaline and has a stimulating effect.

 

It is not recommended for people with seizure disorders. Brain zaps are seizure-like in that they represent abnormal electrical activity in the nervous system. It's also pretty notorious for headaches.

 

If I were you, I'd back away, gradually, from the Wellbutrin. As you've been on it only a few weeks, decreases of 25mg every few days should be okay. See if a decrease relieves some symptoms.

[Azgirl]

Wellbutrin can be rough on someone with a sensitized nervous system. It is a noradrenergic, which drives adrenaline and has a stimulating effect.

 

It is not recommended for people with seizure disorders. Brain zaps are seizure-like in that they represent abnormal electrical activity in the nervous system. It's also pretty notorious for headaches.

 

If I were you, I'd back away, gradually, from the Wellbutrin. As you've been on it only a few weeks, decreases of 25mg every few days should be okay. See if a decrease relieves some symptoms.

 

Bless you all for being here.. so Alto you think it may be the WB causing the zaps? I will do that..I will cut out 25 mg and see if the zaps stop. Still very dizzy and nauseaous too

[Altostrata]

I think it's very possible you'll find Wellbutrin is doing more harm than good.

[Azgirl]

Hi again. You had asked about side effects from lamictal ..I noticed when I started it lethargy loss of motivation and severe leg aches and pain.

 

When I started the Wellbutrin the pain stopped and I was out of bed again. I've had a couple days of anger and crying.. Isn't lamictal supposed to help this? But I liked the effect of the Wellbutrin considering I was out of bed and doing thing again. Some of the speediness has worn off.

 

I did cut out 25 mg and have been holding.

 

The zaps continued so I called doc. Get this she suggested going back on Prozac!,,, this after already having two adverse reactions. I told her no way. She then advised taking 20 mg celexa once every three days. Instead I took 5 mg and within an hour the brain zaps were gone.

 

The vertigo has subsided and I cut Wellbutrin to 125 mg.

 

So again .. I feel like the lamictal is the big problem. I feel stable right now and almost just want to enjoy it for a while .

 

 

CURRENT MEDS 125 mg Wellbutrin 5 mg celexa every other day for zaps and it helped. 100 lamictal. 2 mg clonazepam at night.

Percocet when the lamictal leg pain starts up (after walking short distances) .

 

It's my guess Wellbutrin since its stimulating is helping the motivation. If lamictal was so great why the breakthrough anger and crying.

 

During a lamictal taper what if someone was to take clonazepam to lower chance of seizure. Would it help withdrawals ? Or since Wellbutrin is so activating would this exacerbate lamictal withdrawal.

 

Im hesitant to wear from Wellbutrin because it made me feel better. But I want to do the right thing. I'm afraid if I reduce it more I will get back in bed

 

I hate all of this and can't change docs yet. I don't even think I trust any of them anymore

[Altostrata]

Please take the Celexa consistently, not every other day. Perhaps 2.5mg per day will work.

 

If I were you, I'd stabilize on the Celexa for at least a week before making any other changes. Let your nervous system settle down.

 

It could be that the Lamictal dosage is causing those side effects, particularly the lethargy. You may want to reduce the Lamictal next.

 

Don't change two drugs at once, figuring out the symptoms gets too confused.

 

Wellbutrin and Celexa are accelerators and Lamictal and clonazepam (and Seroquel) are brakes.

[Azgirl]

yes, from the reading I have been doing its not recommended to skip to an every other day schedule so that's what I did, a small dose of celexa daily. When I take it I feel fine. Part of me wants to just enjoy stability for a while, I've been going out more and enjoying activities, will be returning to work, met a nice man. I want the roller coaster to be over with but at the same time I'm also wanting to just sail easy waters for a while.

 

Before all of this happened I think I mentioned..way back before i started on Celexa many many years ago..I had bouts of bad anger, usually PMS but sometimes other times of the month. I'd worry a lot and be overwhelmed easily. I have had a few panic attacks in my life. Depression and panic attacks run in the family. When I started the celexa years ago it did not CURE those anger bouts but did help minimize them.

 

My understanding is lamictal stabilizes moods so it should be helping with that?

 

I hear you, accelerators and brakes. So in a sense I'm on idle right now

 

This is a tricky place to be, I have the zaps under control, I feel good enough to do my job, etc. It's tempting to just enjoy the peace a while before attempting any cuts although I do ultimately want off everything. Perhaps there's some rationale to remaining even keel for now and letting the nervous system settle down and start up a titration at another time. My doc was very insistent about me staying on a mood stabilizer. Again I just dont know if i trust her. Once I get back to work and get caught up I'll be doc shopping.

[Altostrata]

Enjoy stability on that low dose of Celexa.

 

Each person has a different tolerance and reaction to psychiatric drugs. It may be that dosage of Lamictal is too much for you and it has a paradoxical or adverse effect.

 

Besides, the effectiveness of these drugs is vastly overstated. Is Lamictal a mood stabilizer? A lot of people would say it just dulls you out. Is that a stable mood?

 

I wouldn't say you're on idle. You're in a tenuous balance, taking some drugs to counter the effects of others. Overall, it's not good for your health to be taking multiple drugs, especially if you don't need them.

 

But....deal with that after you get stable.

[Azgirl]

Im running out to take care of , ironically, BH paperwork.. and I agree with you 10000% ..I'm taking drugs to counter the effects of other drugs. Wellbutrin feels great because it diminishes the lethargy.

 

I'll also review the info posted on what exactly 'stable' is..perhaps a month or so of time with no serious side effects?

 

My haste in getting off Lamictal has to do with the leg pain..it has come back. My pdoc dismissed it saying it wasn't possible. I've since found many others have reported it. If I can get off the Lamictal I can then decrease the Percocet used for pain (ibuprofen doesn't TOUCH it)..this pain came on as soon as I started Lamictal, I was always an avid hiker.

 

And then if logic follows I won't need the 'upper effect' to get out of bed brought on by the Lamictal lethargy..so then stop wellbutrin. Celexa can stay put.. I weaned off it before so that's the least of my worries. The leg pain is the first issue. I've seen pain management specialists they don't know what it is. I'm not about to try cymbalta.

 

I trust my GP, he listens but he can't help with the BH. I wonder though if he can write a script for the liquid Lamictal? Because I get the feeling I'm going to be fighting with my pdoc if I suggest lowering the dose of Lamictal.

[Altostrata]

Yes, I agree lowering Lamictal should come next, but I'm worried about destabilizing further since you've only just restarted Celexa.

 

The nervous system isn't in compartments, it's all one thing. Change one drug and the entire balance changes.

[Azgirl]

Hi all, I signed up a few months ago under this user name and since then dropped off as I was generally too weak to post. I think my 'history' can be searched here?

 

Since posting I weaned off Prozac, Lamictal, Seroquel, and Wellbutrin. The seroquel and wellbutrin went faster than intended because I got the flu at the same time, I was not able to keep food or pills down and inadvertently ended up detoxing in a most horrible way. I was couch bound and unable to eat anything but crackers for three weeks..lost weight, had anxiety attacks. Somehow I made it through. My psych was NOT a support. Oh..also came off oxycodone 2 pills a day for pain.

 

I am now on 5 mg of Celexa and 1.5 mg clonazepam. I'm wanting to enjoy a bit of stability before starting the taper off of these meds..I know that is a low dose of celexa but its just enough to keep the dizzy brain zaps from happening. After the flu and multi taper ordeal, when I was able to eat and function again I felt pretty good ..because anything was better than those three weeks.

 

Lately ..I don't feel anxiety or depression (maybe fleeting anxiety but nothing bad) (again it's been about three weeks since dc'ing the seroquel and wellbutrin) as expected my energy levels are pretty low and I have a loss of motivation. I was waking up and feeling a brief wave of doom wash over but now I am able to tell myself it will pass as soon as I'm fully awake, and it does. I'm taking vitamins and eating pretty well. Slowly starting to walk again and went swimming yesterday which was very nice but still have low low low energy and just no motivation...however I'll settle for that over the previous flu weeks.

 

Because of the fast taper I'm sure the body suffered damage. Is there a general time line as to when NATURAL energy and motivation return? I know the brain chemistry has to heal. This all started a year ago and I'm so ready to feel like my old self.

 

thanks for being here this board probably saved my life

[Altostrata]

Here's your topic Azgirl. Good to hear from you again.

 

It's also good to hear that although you went off Seroquel and Wellbutrin way too fast for safety, you're not doing too badly from that withdrawal.

 

If I were you, I'd stabilize on your present dosage of Celexa and clonazepam for a good long time, several months at least, to make sure you're out of the woods from quitting the other drugs.

 

Please let us know how your symptoms change. Thinking good thoughts for your continued recovery -- yes, you'll heal over time.

[FeelingAlone]

Hello there AZgirl, just read through your post and have been through Serotonin Syndrome also. Ever since my SS, I've been trying to get stable ever since. I hope you are doing well and maybe you can tell me a lil more about how you coped since your SS nightmare.

[Azgirl]

I'm at such a desperate space right now and I hope that there is hope.  My 'intro and history' is posted under same name but I hoped that by posting here it would be read asap as I'm in such a bad state right now and don't know what to do. 

 

Current meds:  celexa 20mg (taken it for years with zero problems at least that I was aware of); 1.5 mg clonazepam (taken at night for insomnia, been waking up at 3am and unable to get back to sleep); remeron 3.5 prn (previous doc said it was ok to take prn for insomnia)

 

History: first had a panic attack when I was 17, felt 'depression' most of my life, another panic attack when I was 21, various anti'd's tried, gave up on meds, started on celexa in 2000 or 2001.  Have always had anger around PMS, have bad family relationships except for a brother I'm close with, have two kids of my own neither of whom live with me full time, have a stressful job currently, live alone with the only support being a friend in another state ..who has offered me a place to run to and work all this out as he has been thru it himself.  However I have trust issues that may really mess things up

 

Most pressing problem:  depression like I've never felt in my life..for over two weeks I have thought that being dead would release me from the pain but I don't have a plan on how to do it..and the thought that I don't want to do this to my kids keeps me gripping to the last thread.  Nonstop crying where my body heaves ..my younger son has witnessed me crying like this and I just tell him I don't feel good.  Being around him helps because it reminds me to fight this.  Panic attacks and a wave of doom when I wake up.  Overpowering. 

 

A few weeks ago I stopped taking the remeron, it's a low dose 3.5 mg ..while on it I was not having the heavy crying but was feeling emotionally detached and didn't want to be around anyone.  For the last few weeks without it, have kept the other meds the same , would wake up feeling clenched muscles, extreme anxiety and panic, no motivation, hardly able to care for myself.  The nausea was so bad I lost weight and could hardly eat or drink. 

 

Two days ago it occurred to me perhaps going off 3.5 was too fast but how can I take a smaller dose than that?  So I took it at night, slept pretty good, and for the most part the hard core anxiety and crying spells went away (or most probably were numbed out..and I felt a bit of hope because I couldn't possibly go on feeling that way).

 

The drowsiness does not wear off during the day and I find myself staring at the ceiling waiting for the day to go by so I can go to bed. 

 

Today I have no panic but the depression and the urge to cry and end the pain is back.  So what may have been a short term rescue is no more.  I understand celexa is a accelerator, I understand remeron at a low dose is sedating, I understand benzos are sedating. 

 

But what do I do? Other than check myself into a ward and I have a huge mistrust of doctors now. 

 

I have the option of packing up, putting a for sale sign on the car, quitting the job and leaving with my son (I can't leave him behind, not an option).  I have a friend whom I mentioned who offers a no strings attached place at his house for me to withdraw completely from all meds and not try to hold down this job. I have a few thousand dollars saved but will lose my insurance if I move. 

 

I just need to know if there is something I can do about the depression/crying spells..I tried to tough them out but after reading this board for the last year I feel that the withdrawal I was feeling was to much to bear alone.  OR COULD IT BE I NEED SOMETHING TO CONTROL THE DEPRESSION AND PANIC?

 

I don't have a single friend or support where I'm currently at who can possibly understand what is happening and I'm sinking fast..and beyond that I have given up hope that I will ever be alright again.

[Azgirl]

bumping this again for an update..

 

I never did stabilize on celexa and clonazepam and now have a remeron prn to deal with..sliding back downhill again.  I swear if I make it out of this I will spend my life helping others as much I can.

 

 

FeelingAlone, I came back also to tell you about the SS since you asked (and I see you went through it too, and I'm sorry you went thru it).  At the time I was on Prozac which for whatever reason was more stimulating to me than celexa ever was.  I was also on a cocktail of other meds.

 

I had trouble falling asleep and finally drifted off but woke up feeling something was horribly wrong.  It was almost like an aura presence of doom and "oh $hit you better get help right now"  .  I felt strange sensations up and down my spine and my body was twisting and clenching, not able to hold still.  I took a clonazepam but it did nothing to calm symptoms, probably because I already have a tolerance to it.  My skin felt hot and dry and my pulse was higher than normal.  The worst part was rocking back and forth and not being able to lay still..imagine restless leg syndrome but thru your whole body.

 

I went to the ER where they put me in a gown, took away all of my belongings, put me in a brightly lit room that was freezing cold, with a camera on me.  They took my vitals ONCE upon admission and NOT AGAIN.  I was asking for something for nausea, a nurse gave me one of those tiny pink emesis basins, a few hours later I think it was Zofran they gave me.  The ER doc that night did a quick assessment, I remember asking her if she had any psych experience and she said of course I do.  I was treated as a suicide watch even though I was not suicidal at the time, I kept asking them to consider it was the meds doing this.  If I remember correctly I was admitted around midnight or 1 am.  The Zofran for nausea came a few hours later.  Around five am I was pacing, asking for a Tylenol or something for a headache, knowing damn well they'd already done a blood panel on me to test for drugs and it would come back clean except for the dirt prescribed.  Never saw that ER doc again.  The new ER doc came in around 6 am, talked to me for a few minutes and a nurse gave me an Ativan .  I fell asleep freezing cold even with a few blankets on.  I was on a gurney not a hospital bed.  Around 9 am I saw my psych and thought oh great, I was hoping for a fresh set of eyes.  She came in and said it was SS and gave me Cogentin ..hours later it helped unclench my body and helped some of the restlessness.  No further assessment or vital signs were taken (in fact I brought this up with a quality manager after discharge and she DENIED it saying my vitals were taken once an hour, but other than the hour I drifted off to sleep NO ONE took vitals.  There was no cuff attached to my arm to monitor it.  I am SURE of this. 

 

 I picked up the rest of the Cogentin from pharmacy and was told to take it twice a day ..not as NEEDED for symptoms but just take it.  It gave me anticholinergic toxicity.  Between that and SS it was a good two weeks before I was able to get out of bed.  I took medical leave and by FMLA kept my job but the short term disability payment was denied, the nurse reviewing my case stated that SS and the following recovery did not warrant that much time off work (I requested a month, my psych requested two months). 

 

If you are still on the forum I'm interested in your story too, if you want to share or you can message me any time. 

[Azgirl]

apologies I posted the current update here but I am in big trouble http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4521-rescue-for-disabling-depression/

[Jemima]

apologies I posted the current update here but I am in big trouble http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4521-rescue-for-disabling-depression/

 

I moved that post here to your Intro thread.

[mammaP]

Azgirl I am so sorry to read that you are suffering badly. I can't offer any advice but just wanted to 

say hi and offer a virtual hug. , Alto will be along with helpful advice soon I'm sure. 

[Azgirl]

thank you..losing all sense of hope that this will ever stop

 

any recommendations for good docs in Arizona?

[Rhiannon]

If I were you, I'd stabilize on your present dosage of Celexa and clonazepam for a good long time, several months at least, to make sure you're out of the woods from quitting the other drugs. 

 

Sage advice from Alto as usual.

 

Az, I've read through your topic here. I'm pretty confused as to what you started when and what you stopped when, because it sounds like there have been a lot of on and off and up and down and back up and off and down and back on and off and et ceteras for you, over the past year or two.

 

This is a recipe for exactly what you're experiencing right now. And unfortunately, there is no magic fix for it. As Alto says, our nervous system is not made of rubber. There's a certain amount of resilience--for example, many people seem to be able to take a low dose of one single psych drug for a while and then quit it without too much trouble--but that resilience is not infinite.

 

In my years on the meds, going on and off, trying to quit, starting again, adding and removing meds, etc, I used up all my slack, and now I'm extremely sensitive to psych drugs and any changes in them. I suspect you will find this to be the case for you, too, from now on.

 

Again, there is really no pharmaceutical solution that I know of that can fix what you're experiencing now. The only thing that I have seen that seems to work pretty consistently for someone in your situation is to stop changing things at all and just get stable.  (As has been suggested, it looks like, already.)

 

These drugs aren't just like aspirin, something that works while it's in us and then goes away.  These drugs disrupt our natural chemistry in ways that our CNS interprets as dangerous. So the CNS tries to compensate. It remodels itself in response to the drugs. This isn't simple and temporary; it involves turning on and off genes (not a quickly reversible process), growing new cells, destroying other cells, and just generally a lot of remodeling.

 

Every time you throw a new chemical change into the soup, you disrupt whatever balancing was trying to happen, and force everything to start over. After a while it just spirals out of control.

 

Imagine a freeway system where all of a sudden half the exits disappeared or starting going to some new destination. There would be chaos and accidents. Then just about the time the traffic has managed to reroute itself, some of those exits reappear and other ones disappear. And traffic tries to adjust but this just keeps happening. Before long you have a tangled and unresolveable mess.

 

The chemistry of your brain is about a billion times more complex than a freeway system. (Fortunately, also more capable of healing itself, given lots of time and support.)

 

That's why you're feeling so bad. And that's why, when people get into this situation like you're in, there is very rarely any kind of pharmaceutical solution that fixes things; the problem is too much pharma to begin with.  

 

I could be wrong, of course. This is just based on my own (fairly extensive) experience advising and observing people on these Internet forums, going through what you're going through.

 

The one thing that does seem to work over time is to just HOLD ON for a while, not changing anything (for many months) and then carefully tapering down slowly and methodically, one medication at a time, over several years. Sometimes if there's been a recent obvious large drop in one or two drugs, a person can reinstate slightly and get some relief, and then stabilize and then taper down. In your case I wouldn't know what to suggest, though, because you've been up and down and on and off so many things it's hard to point to just one. (Alto may have some suggestions--she's way better at that than I am.)

 

If I were in your position I would just try to stop changing anything for at least six to nine months. You aren't going to feel better soon, but over a time frame like that you should settle down somewhat. Once your symptoms begin to settle, you can take a look at things and see where to go from there.

 

I'm sorry, this is so far from an ideal or even good solution that it's ludicrous, I know that.  But it's just how it seems to be. There just is not any easy way to heal a chaotic,disordered nervous system that's been destabilized and generally put through the blender (and the juicer) by psychiatric drugs.

[Azgirl]

Rhi thank you for the post.  I'm finding it helps to know there is a support system here.  It has truly been an up and down , trying of different meds, yanking off others..I can completely understand why my nervous system is just shot.  I stopped remeron a few weeks ago and the withdrawals were so severe, but I was trying to tough it out.  When I started a very low dose a few days ago, sleep improved and my appetite returned (and the morning panic subsided) so I believe this is what you mean by 'stable' or the best stability I can reach at this point.  I couldn't fight thru the grieving crying spells anymore, they were so intense even though I told myself it was the meds ..I wanted to end the pain any way imaginable. 

 

I understand what you're saying about the freeway and it makes perfect sense.  It will take a while to get things moving in the correct direction again. 

 

I'll stay where I'm at and work on maintaining sleep and food. 

 

I believe the best thing for me to do is to either take another leave from work or take the offer I've been given to recluse at my dear friend's house and just do the bare minimum such as taking my child to school, maintaining health, etc.  I have a little bit of savings and my friend , even though he's the only emotional support I have, has assured me to not worry about returning to work until I'm ready.  It has been way too difficult to try to return to 'normal' while keeping a fulltime stressful job and being alone where I'm currently living.  Having a supportive loving friend who has been thru this himself (not same scenario but similar) will also help.  I have to take the time off from a job to fix this.  I can ease back into part time work when things are more stable.  if I keep trying to hang on to this job and being the sole hunter/gatherer I feel I'm going to keep having setbacks or breakdowns..i was just stubborn and thought I could do it.  I'd also welcome a change of scenery, I'll be going back 'home' to a familiar place where I lived for many years.  My friend is allowing me use of his car to do errands or take my boy to school .  Just KNOWING I can fall back into this situation relieves stress.  I anticipate the move itself will be a bit stressful but luckily what I own will fit into a few boxes ..I won't have to worry about employment, in fact I can focus on art work again which has always been my true love and was profitable for a while.  I'll be moving from shifting sands to a solid rock. 

 

If anyone knows of an understanding doctor who will ultimately be pro-slow taper in Arizona please let me know.  I will no longer have insurance but as mentioned I have at least a year's worth of living expenses saved up. 

 

This feels like a decade old cycle of being drugged about to be slowly reversed and fixed and that in itself is a relief.  Although I'm nervous about it.  Anhedonia and lack of motivation, I never knew how disabling just those feelings could be.  For the first time in a while I feel hope and a feeling in my gut this is the right move.

 

bless you and thank you all for being there, I'll be here to post updates.  I look forward to the day where I can look back on all of this and use experience to help others. 

[Rhiannon]

Sounds good, Az.

 

Just want to say, when I say "stable" I'm referring to something a little different than the relief of symptoms that comes with a small reinstatement. That relief is likely to come and go, and please don't worry if it does, because that's normal.

A reinstatement usually improves things somewhat but doesn't fix them. You can expect to have a windows-and-waves pattern for quite some time.

 

I believe that only time with no further disruption of your brain chemistry, and allowing natural healing processes (which are not fast) to do their work, will help. Over time, and it could take quite a while, if you can manage to resist that urge to "do something anything!" which leads to adding and changing meds, you will find your symptoms reduce to a manageable level and sort of plateau out. That's what I'm referring to when I say you will get more stable. Once you get to that point and hold there for a month or two you can begin to consider a slow, 10%, regulated taper of one med at a time.

 

If you wait until things have settled down and then taper slowly enough, starting from a stable place, listening carefully to your body's responses and making appropriate conservative adjustments, you have a very good chance of being able to reduce or eliminate all or most of the meds you're on. This will probably be a long process, years.

 

I think your plan to reduce stress at this point sounds like a good one, but of course only you know what's right for you in terms of those kinds of life changes. I do know that less stress makes this withdrawal/recovery process go more smoothly.

 

I am so, so sorry for what you're going through. Hang in there. It's a long process, but you can get through it, one day (or sometimes just one hour) at a time.

[Azgirl]

Now I understand what you mean by stable..  I think I must read this board, and others's stories more than any other kind of reading right now.  I keep a daily journal, just a quick write down of the meds, meals I had, what time I went to sleep, and symptoms.  And now I understand that as badly as I want this over with , it will go thru the windows as you described.  I'm so glad you are here. 

 

Yes, I've given it so much thought and as much as I have tried to push thru and remain with the current job and in the apartment I have, even knowing it will be a change of location, that it's best to stop trying to hold it all together and just settle in to a place where I can be on a relaxed daily schedule and tend to my son. 

 

I have more to share, something I have told very few ..  when I was pregnant with my second son I was advised by my OB to continue the celexa.  I dropped the benzo (at that time it was lorazepam) but I must have exposed him to the benzo for at least ten weeks before stopping because I didn't know I was pregnant.  My OB told me to continue with the celexa, her reasoning was that a stressed mom could be worse than exposing a fetus to anti-ds.  She never mentioned withdrawals of any type.  I so wish there was more public education about this and I wish I had not taken it during pregnancy.  I'm very ashamed of it.  God only knows what damage I did to him.  He was born a little underweight and when the nurses got him to cry he screeched this high pitched screech..he was breastfed so I probably continued the damage.  For the first year or two he was a bit delayed ..crawled later than his peers, walked later, etc but what was most obvious to me is that he would be in his rocker toy and get this zoned out look on his face, and rock back and forth.  Later when he was crawling he would push a toy around on the floor very repetitively.  Now he's almost six and is cognitively one of the brightest kids in his school but tends to get overwhelmed with too much group activity and stimulus.  For a while he was self harming when he got frustrated.  He has a speech delay that is improving but I still have to word things correctly for him to understand.  He was evaluated for autism but the pediatrician gave no firm diagnosis, just said developmental delays.  The last few months in kindergarten were really bad for him, he was acting out in class and he scratches at his arm when he's frustrated.  One of the teachers suggested I take him to a child psych and see about placing him on meds to help calm him down.  I just about lost it.  She made repeated suggestions about it until I reported her.  Now he's in summer school with a different teacher and a shorter schedule and doing just fine..still doesn't want too much group activity (limited) but no self harm.   I know its a topic re: anti'd during pregnancy so I thought I'd share his story as well. 

 

So the moving to another place will benefit both of us, he's excited about Arizona, he knows his older brother is there.  I can finally breathe and think about being a full time mom for a while and making sure HE is stable in school. 

 

Just the thought itself of quitting the current job makes me feel happiness.  My dear friend is going to sign a lease next week ..my lease is up August 1st and I am sooo looking forward to quitting and taking a breather.  Knowing that I don't have to jump into a new job helps too. 

 

Thank you so much Rhi, is your story posted here too? I would like to read it.  I know what it's like to lose everything ..

[mammaP]

That last post made me cry. Please please don't blame yourself for how your son is. I know it's hard not to but it really is NOT your fault.

You are a wonderful mummy and do your very best for your little boy, I'm so glad you stood your ground with meds for him. The move sound like 

the perfect thing for you and I hope it all goes smoothly for you. You have a very supportive friend and I really truly hope it works out well for you. 

[Azgirl]

Oh dear Mama your crying just made me cry too .  I keep reminding myself that some of us go thru tough times in life (such as surviving antidepressants) so that we can learn a valuable lesson to teach others.  My older one feels down at times but he's seen me struggle and I told him the best thing he can do is learn coping skills and to never ever take any substance to take away anxiety or depression.  I am angered that schools will encourage drugging kids to sedate them into conformity in a classroom.  I have considered home schooling my youngest and including other types of socialization such as sports and activities.  The DOE of course states over and over that with homeschooling kids don't learn social skills and need the classroom socialization but I believe it is a case by case basis, right now the young one is in a pressure cooker so any socialization he receives at school, in that setting, just seems to aggravate the situation.  He was placed in early intervention at age three.  I think, like mom, he needs a break. 

 

Thank you for your kind words, we are both ready to move on.  Going back to Arizona is 'home' I spent many years there and had some bad family memories, I know being back will open up some wounds but it's time to face them, without pills, and recover once and for all, and teach my kids how to do the same.  Do I get to be the wise old woman? 

[Azgirl]

I'm not sure if I'm posting in the right forum..

 

As we start to experience these windows of 'good' days or maybe I should say, better days than the bad days, do you find yourselves pushing to do more, get out, socialize, engage in activities, etc?  Or do you rest?

 

I don't want to over-do it.  I used to be so active and swam twice a day, walked in the mornings, and had a very active social life.  Days off from work were filled with activities and I had a passion and creativity that have ducked under cover somewhere.

 

And there's days I want to do nothing but be on the couch.  A trip to the grocery store is exhausting.  But on a rare day I find that if I am with a friend, I can go out and do things , just at a slower pace. 

 

I'm sure that any kind of exercise is helpful to recovery.  I walk to do my errands so I'm getting some exercise but get winded after climbing one flight of stairs. 

 

Just wondering how everyone else cares for themselves and if you find that doing things increases your motivation to do more?

[Jemima]

All things in withdrawal are best done in moderation.  Excessive exercise, for example, has made quite a number of people feel even worse.

 

Overall, it's best to listen to your body and stick with the tried and true.  Take a walk, but don't try to do power walking or aerobic walking.  If you're inclined to go out with a friend, do so, but don't grit your teeth and suffer through a social occasion that you dread.  If you feel tired, rest.  Withdrawal is hard enough without pushing ourselves to do the things we used to do before we were sickened by antidepressants. Pushing things is a bad idea.

 

Personally I found that some days I could do things and some days I couldn't.  Withdrawal and the physical and emotional changes that go with it are pretty much in control of how I feel and felt from day to day.  Doing things can increase, decrease, or do nothing with regard to my motivation to do more.  It's very much a one-day-at-a-time sort of recovery.

 

BTW, here's an article you might find interesting about the windows and waves pattern of recovery:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

[Azgirl]

Thank you, that article is comforting. 

 

I've tolerated a reduction in celexa quite well over the last 8 days.  Am having the brain zaps, some vertigo, loss of appetite, but I suppose since I've withdrawn from it before, and in comparison to withdrawals from other drugs, I know what to expect so I've been able to function.  Going to hold here at 10 mg celexa and let the brain adjust.  Still sleeping decent.  The withdrawal may be going easier because I know soon I can quit my job and relocate..a bit of hope does wonders.