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Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol or calcitriol)

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JamesF

I'm having some trouble with vitamin d3. My levels are dropping into the range of deficiency, but when taking only 1000 IU by tablet orally, it seems to trigger an anxiety reaction and a definite worsening of sleep at night. 

This is when taking it as early in the morning as possible and making sure I'm taking some magnesium alongside it. Any advice?

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JamesF

Low vitamin D is a major cause of sleep problems and fatigue. Both of which can characterise psychiatric drug withdrawal.

 

Therefore, adequate vitamin D levels is an important factor to optimize.

 

However, many of us have paradoxical reactions to supplements like vitamin D.

 

I'm in a situation where my vitamin D levels are low and falling. Yet, when I take it I seem to get intense anxiety, palpitations and sleep trouble the following night (if taking it when first waking up).

 

I'm a bit confused about how to improve this. Is it a case of continuing to take it anyway? ... Not take it could make D drop to levels where it could be a major cause of issues in itself.

 

Confused. Jay

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dj2010
1 hour ago, JamesF said:

Low vitamin D is a major cause of sleep problems and fatigue. Both of which can characterise psychiatric drug withdrawal.

 

Therefore, adequate vitamin D levels is an important factor to optimize.

 

However, many of us have paradoxical reactions to supplements like vitamin D.

 

I'm in a situation where my vitamin D levels are low and falling. Yet, when I take it I seem to get intense anxiety, palpitations and sleep trouble the following night (if taking it when first waking up).

 

I'm a bit confused about how to improve this. Is it a case of continuing to take it anyway? ... Not take it could make D drop to levels where it could be a major cause of issues in itself.

 

Confused. Jay

ive recently tried a vitamin D supplement again and I found it much harder to fall asleep so stopped it again, I dont think I will risk it again now as in a couple of months the sun will be strong enough in the UK to be able to get all the vitamin D need from that, if using a Vitamin D supp then best to get a low dose childs one with a droplet so can start at a very small dose, one like this:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Natures-Aid-Vitamin-Children-Included/dp/B0082A7GUM/ref=sr_1_1_s_it?s=drugstore&ie=UTF8&qid=1515499963&sr=1-1&keywords=childs+vitamin+d

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JamesF
5 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

ive recently tried a vitamin D supplement again and I found it much harder to fall asleep so stopped it again, I dont think I will risk it again now as in a couple of months the sun will be strong enough in the UK to be able to get all the vitamin D need from that, if using a Vitamin D supp then best to get a low dose childs one with a droplet so can start at a very small dose, one like this:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Natures-Aid-Vitamin-Children-Included/dp/B0082A7GUM/ref=sr_1_1_s_it?s=drugstore&ie=UTF8&qid=1515499963&sr=1-1&keywords=childs+vitamin+d

Yes good idea. I'm starting with 250-500 IU. 2000 IU is the amount proven to raise levels to optimal. 

 

Out of curiosity, what time of day did you take it ? You may know this, but a big reason for vitamin D insomnia is taking it too late in the day, since it's essentially a wakefulness hormone. A friend of mine had super disrupted sleep until he took it when he woke up.

 

Suns a good idea too. But supplements seem like a quicker way to get optimal levels. At least for me, since I'm mostly stuck in the house right now.

 

Jay

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dj2010
1 minute ago, JamesF said:

Yes good idea. I'm starting with 250-500 IU. 2000 IU is the amount proven to raise levels to optimal. 

 

Out of curiosity, what time of day did you take it ? You may know this, but a big reason for vitamin D insomnia is taking it too late in the day, since it's essentially a wakefulness hormone. A friend of mine had super disrupted sleep until he took it when he woke up.

 

Suns a good idea too. But supplements seem like a quicker way to get optimal levels. At least for me, since I'm mostly stuck in the house right now.

 

Jay

I tried taking it early in the morning at around 7am, it made me feel quite tired for some reason but same as last time I could not fall asleep that night, it took me around a extra 1 and half hours to fall asleep, its strange as I also have a SAD lamp which I got to see if it would help with sleep and every time ive tried using it I can not fall asleep that night, luckily my sleep has improved a lot since having epsom salt baths every night so don't need to keep experimenting with supplements etc a lot now,

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JamesF
3 minutes ago, dj2010 said:

I tried taking it early in the morning at around 7am, it made me feel quite tired for some reason but same as last time I could not fall asleep that night, it took me around a extra 1 and half hours to fall asleep, its strange as I also have a SAD lamp which I got to see if it would help with sleep and every time ive tried using it I can not fall asleep that night, luckily my sleep has improved a lot since having epsom salt baths every night so don't need to keep experimenting with supplements etc a lot now,

 

I'm the same with SAD lights. I tried it this week. It's way too stimulating for me, even at low doses and early in the morning.

 

I think it's just really easy to overstimulate the nervous system. And also, processing vit d supplements or unnatural light takes some physiological energy and is somewhat stressful. We just don't have the capacity to adapt to it yet i guess

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dj2010
2 minutes ago, JamesF said:

 

I'm the same with SAD lights. I tried it this week. It's way too stimulating for me, even at low doses and early in the morning.

 

I think it's just really easy to overstimulate the nervous system. And also, processing vit d supplements or unnatural light takes some physiological energy and is somewhat stressful. We just don't have the capacity to adapt to it yet i guess

thats correct, with time as you heal you will become less sensitive and then be able to tolerate it better, I could not take much magnesium citrate a few months ago, could only take about 1/8 of a teaspoon and even then it was sometimes activating and made my jaw go all tight etc but over the last 6 weeks I am able to take around a full teaspoon with no problem,

 

with Vit D supps i think i read on on this thread that its best to start at around 100 IU:  

 

 

 

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emilie

just to say you know D is good for bones.

I have found studies that link osteoporosis with antidepressant drug. 

 

 

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JamesF

Just want to update and say I found I could not tolerate 1000-2000IU tablets but did find I can tolerate 200-400 IUs. I eat it with spinach because magnesium deficiency can be a cause of vitamin d side effects, since mag is utilised for its absorption. It also seems better to have it with a meal, possibly for other cofactors. Also taking it first thing when waking up seems to reduce the chance of insomnia.

 

Studies show 200-400IU may not be enough to reach the optimal range (~50ng/DL). But it's certainly enough to keep a person out of severe deficiency if taken daily

 

Would encourage anyone to experiment with these small amounts if like me you find you couldn't handle standard doses.

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Jaco2016

Hi everyone ,

i recently had my blood tested at my request of my PCP. It came back with low vitamin D (borderline “deficient”).  He prescribed 50000 IU of D2 once a week for about 4 months.  Has anyone discovered low vitamin D as well and been “cured” by vitamin D supplementation?  

 

Im still on Pristiq 50mg, now taken every 36 hours.  I still struggle with insomnia as the main troubling side effect otherwise fine but the insomnia is a constant battle and I don’t want to take any sleeping pills so I’m hoping that vitamin D could balance things so that maybe I could taper off this med.

 

TIA!

Jaco 

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tyson

I know I was told to take vitamin D3 not D2. I took the one with 1000. But I don't see any difference. I am trying to get it from nature by going out during the sunny day. 

 

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Fishfanatic

Hello Jaco2016,

I had low vitamin D myself and decided to take a supplement and go out in the sun daily for at least 60 minutes.  I had the option of the sun as i fortunately live in south Florida.  I would be careful taking such a large dose once a week.  There are good supplements out there that are D3 which is a more absorbable form from what i have read.  Also, it seems like the liquid forms are better than tablets or pill form.  The supplement i used was Biotics research Bio-D-Mulsio Forte.  It is basically 2000iu per drop.  Instead of taking 50000 in one shot i would take 6000 each day and see how you feel.  Of course, actual sun exposure would be ideal.  There is a website that is dedicated to vitamin D.  https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/ 

Also, there is an app for apple called "dminder"... not sure if they have it for android.

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hennie86

I was absent-minded and accidentally took 6 times of vitamin D that is my usual dose. I normally take my small dose with no problems and my levels are better than they used to be.

 I also took it accidentally in the evening instead of morning like usually. I thought I was taking different supplement and took it  from the wrong bottle.

 

I found it activating and I had problems sleeping last night. Or maybe I just got anxious and it made my sleep worse or there are other factors. I used to be really sensitive to supplements before, during withdrawal but nowadays I use some of them with no problems but  I prefer smaller doses, just in case.

 

It just sucks to make this kind of mistake and think about this :( 

 

But I was just thinking does vitamin D only have an effect when it is taken long term.  Does even taking only one bigger dose can have any effect eight away or can it even cause adverse reactions during withdrawal when many people are sensitive. It takes time d vitamin levels to build up.

 

 

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ChessieCat
1 hour ago, hennie86 said:

I found it activating and I had problems sleeping last night.

 

That's not surprising.  Vitamin comes from the sunshine - it should be taking in the morning.

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hennie86

Can bigger vitamin D dose trigger anxiety ? Have anyone had this kind of reaction? I took 2400IU of vitamin D accidentally instead of my normal dose. Normally I use 400 IU daily with no problems and have used it for a long time.  I have had really nasty anxiety after bigger dose, for two days, feeling uncomfortable sensations in my body.

 

I think I keep a break using vitamin D supplement even though if it is not the cause. Just in case.

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Gridley

When in withdrawal, our systems are very sensitized to supplements or even foods that normally would be tolerated.  Two days of taking six times your normal dose could certainly have been a shock to your system and cause the symptoms you describe.  You could take a little break then start back.  With supplements we always recommend starting with a low dosage to be sure you can tolerate it.

 

 

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julia955

I just wanted to add my experience with vitamin D to this thread as a warning to others!

 

I am a year into withdrawal and have been doing great for the most part. A lot of my symptoms have disappeared and the few that are left are way less in intensity/duration. I haven't been taking any supplements other than fish oil, magnesium, and evening primrose oil and those three were only ever beneficial to me. However, I was advised by my doctor that my vitamin D levels were low and she prescribed 10,000IU vitamin D3 a day (I wasn't aware this was a super high amount until later looking online). Oh boy, WHAT a mistake! I suffered with immense anxiety within 48 hours of taking my first dose. Intense pain in my spine and the horrible symptom that I had my first 9 months of withdrawal (pain and discomfort in my chest) came back!! As well as severe anxiety, followed by emotional hell, and finally now severe fatigue. I was so angry. I didn't even put two and two together until a few days later, so I ended up taking 4 or 5 days worth of it until I realized what was happening. Unfortunately I'm still not feeling well at all though it is lessening in intensity. Unfortunately vitamin D isn't water soluble so I may have to wait a while until my reaction passes completely. It seems to be very common for people to just not tolerate D supplements (especially high doses) in withdrawal and I would recommend to anyone reading this to not even take the chance.

 

Thinking back, in a cruel turn of events I remembered that 5 years ago when I first started withdrawal (WAY too quickly), my doctor had prescribed the same dose and I had taken that for my first month of withdrawal, which looking back I think was making everything 100x worse! In particular this weird sensation in my chest and severe fatigue which D seems to cause.

 

Vitamin D is important but I think there is a 'vitamin D craze' going on right now that may or may not be warranted. Levels that were once considered perfectly adequate are now all of a sudden considered deficient, and doctors are prescribing extremely high doses. I did everything "right" that you're supposed to do with D like also taking its cofactors (magnesium and K2) and I still had this horrendous reaction. My level isn't super low at 26 so I'm gong to stop them for now for sure. 

 

I seem to be able to tolerate plant milks that have a little bit of D2 added to them, but not high or even standard doses of supplemental D3. I also read that magnesium can help raise vitamin D levels. For now I'm just going to stick to that and getting some sun when I can. I guess for some people D3 works great but it really goes to show every body is different.

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KristinaD

Thanks for the information about your reaction to vitamin D. I would never have expected that or recognized what was going in, either. 

 

About 80% of Americans are deficient in vitamin D and I personally have the second lowest levels my doctor has ever seen. 

 

I hope that you can get your levels up with time, but onviigsky, you will have to start with tiny doses and even then  e alert  for any side effects. 

 

Most of us are deficient  in several  things due to the inadequate nutrients in our food, as well as the fact that these nutrients get used up too quickly when we are exposed to toxic chemicals because many nutrients are involved as Co- factors in biochemical   detox pathways. . 

 

The books of Sally Rogers, MD have been very informative for me. I was aghast st some of what I read as it is such crucial information information that was presented in medical literature 20 years ago but which, oddly,  nobody seems  to know about. 

 

Just like the situation with the dangers of antidepressants.  

 

As as it turns out, a deficiency in any of perhaps 40 different nutrients can be the cause of severe depression. And a ton of other diseases. 

 

So ot is important to eat eat a diet full of good nutrition and fur mist peopje, taking supplements is necessary as well. 

 

Magnesium is another one thst 80% of Americans are deficient in. 

 

Vitamin C is important, as is glutathione, and 5-HT and tryptophan are recommended for depression. Tyrosine is recommended for energy. 

 

Everybidy is different, so don’t think that I know specifically what is good for you. It is best to get one’s Levels checked 

 

organic foods in addition to having many fewer chemicals, also has much more nutritional value. 

 

I’mcsure most of you know that if you type “toxic 12” into your browser you will be able to easily find the list of the 12 types of produce with the most toxic chemicals. There is the “free  15, or something like that, that lists the 15 cleanest foods. 

 

If one buys the toxic 12 in organic form and the rest, or at least the free 15, in regular form, one can avoid the worst of the chemicals with the lowest cost. 

 

The foods are retested every year and a new list put out. Apples and strawberries are always near the top of the worst. Avocados are usually the cleanest. 

 

If I had had this information 20 years ago, I wouldn’t have had to go through years of depression. It was stated that it ought to be considered malpractice for a psychiatrist not to test a patient with depression’s  levels of all the relevant nutrients.  It virtually no one does this. They reach instead for their prescription pad. 

 

I personally get profoundly  depressed  when exposed to mold or to insecticides which are toxins which deplete nutrients. 

 

Most peopke arent that sensitive, of course,   It wouldnt it be s shame to miss the cause of a severe depression that could be remedied by taking magnesium, or vitamin D, or glutathione, etc. 

 

When i think of those many lost  years of horrible depression and being barely aware because of the antidepressants side effects and think about how it all could have. Even so easily fixed, I get angry. 

 

All that information, about nutrient deficiencies causing depression and about the horrible effects of antidepressants has been available in the medical literature for at least 20 years, and often two generations. 

 

How is it that we are all so ignorant??

 

and on that note, I think I will go to bed. 

 

I do realize, by the way, that I did get off topic a bit. I just felt it was important for everyone to know this. 

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icequeen

Just like you julia, I think there's a vitamin D craze going on. I tried it when my doctor said I was deficient and had horrible reactions to just 400 mgs of it.  I read the information in the packet and it said that it is not for those who have had kidney stones or gallstones. I have had both. It says it can also raise blood sugar, cause calcium deposits etc. so it is not for everyone.  I have friends who are perfectly healthy, never eat dairy and never sun bathe, have no osteoporosis etc and I also know one who takes both vitamin D, calcium and magnesium and has severe osteporosis so I don't believe in any supplement crazes that may stem from the supplement industry and those of us who have been damaged by antidepressants often can't tolerate many supplemnents and I doubt we need them if we eat a varied diet. 

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ChessieCat

SA suggests doing your own research and using caution when introducing new things.  Members in psychiatric drug withdrawal can have sensitised systems and it is better to try a small dose of the substance to test to see how you react to it.  Also only introduce one new thing at a time, as well as only one change at a time, eg do not introduce a new thing at the same time you make a reduction in your drug:  Keep it Simple, Slow and Stable

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KristinaD
On 1/9/2018 at 6:18 AM, JamesF said:

Yes good idea. I'm starting with 250-500 IU. 2000 IU is the amount proven to raise levels to optimal. 

 

Out of curiosity, what time of day did you take it ? You may know this, but a big reason for vitamin D insomnia is taking it too late in the day, since it's essentially a wakefulness hormone. A friend of mine had super disrupted sleep until he took it when he woke up.

 

Suns a good idea too. But supplements seem like a quicker way to get optimal levels. At least for me, since I'm mostly stuck in the house right now.

 

Jay

That’s great information. Jay. 

Thank you. 

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