needhope: i am in the horrible wave/window loop

[Meimeiquest]

Also, I think Alto intended for you to take six beads of Cymbalta (right drug?) every day until you either stabilize or are sure it's making things worse. Meimeiquest ( the only person sitting around on the computer on a beautiful Sunday...sick kiddo)

[needhope]

I hear u peggy, thx for the comment.What I mean by fighting it is trying not to let my mind obsess on the negative stuff, meaning my defects and perceived inadequacies - that is what drives me to hopeless and suicidal thinking which of course I want to avoid.

 

I just did a little gardening with my sis, and I mean a little, and I can hardly move. Feels like low blood sugar. I hope it's a temp symptom. Hard to believe I was still getting to the gym pretty regularly in my windows up until this past week.

[needhope]

Thank you Ed and Meimei...u snuck in while I was replying to peggy...I appreciate your insights and kind words.

 

Good God Ed I hope I can report some improvements for you to read about soon.

[Meimeiquest]

How are things now? Thinking of you!

[needhope]

Sorry, but terrible. Yesterday was maybe worst day yet - hard to say, there have been quite a few. Probably going to hospital this morning. I know I know, but I am out of options. I need to talk to a doctor. In the past couple days I have tried to contact Dr. Breggin and any other like-minded person I could find, via email and phone, to please recommend someone in my area or at least remote driving distance that could help me. I heard back from one person who only pointed me towards a couple websites. Even if I did get recommended a doctor with an enlightened view of meds and med-free treatment it would take a while to get to see them. The fact is I just can't continue like this. Maybe I need to reinstate something (6 grains of Cymbalta is not doin it), that hopefully won't kill me, and then come off it eventually the right way. Or just stay on it if it's "working". I just don't know. This is the worst, most hopeless I've ever felt.

[Meimeiquest]

So sorry, but thank you for telling us. I'm glad you are doing what YOU feel is best. There are several people here who have done the same. Please rejoin us on the other side if you'd like. And good luck!

[tezza]

Needhope,

 

Whatever you decide, we wish the best for you! Please keep in touch...

 

Tezza

[Altostrata]

Did the 6 beads of Cymbalta help a little? Did you have a downturn since you've been taking them? How many good days did you have and how many bad days?

 

It may be you need to take more Cymbalta, 12 beads for example. You need to give this time.

[needhope]

Well I was only taking the beads for 4 days now, and not yet today. I've been feeling especially rotten and psycho. I had that one good window right after u told me about the benefit that might come from it...and also just from meeting u all and feeling the love(and I mean that-i'm not being facetious). So, it was one good day which started the afternoon of the 8th and the next wave came the next afternoon and I've been very bad ever since with a couple lengthy episodes of VERY VERY bad.so I'm going to talk to an ER shrink now.I'm not going to let him/her do anything drastic to me.I'm hoping there is someone enlightened who can look at possible reinstatement with an eye toward my goal.thank you everyone for the very kind words and well-wishes, and Alto for your continued attention.I'll stay in touch.

Update - gonna stick it out today, no ER.I'll see what tomorrow brings.Just took 12 beads. If you guys/girls could ever meet my little sister you would know how close a human being can actually be to being an angel.

[peggy]

needhope, do you have any idea how many mg of cymbalta are in the 12 beads? How many beads in a 30mg capsule? As suggested by Alto, you are most likely in acute withdrawal from the cymbalta and the prozac was way too stimulating for you. The reason Alto has suggested a low dose of cymbalta and then titrating up a little is that you may be senstitive now to cymbalta as well so you don't want to shock your system any more.

 

a few years ago i came off a pretty high dose of effexor following a Dr's taper in about 6 weeks - within a couple of weeks i was in full blown withdrawal which i endured for about a month before starting Pristiq. Even though Pristiq is supposed to just be a cleaner version of effexor, it was WAY too stimulating for me and it put me into major, major scary anxiety, with huge adrenaline dumps and suicidal depression. As soon as it happened i stopped the pristiq and two days later restarted effexor. I was extremely lucky that i tolerated the effexor fine and worked back up to my previous dose within a week. It seems very hit and miss with going back to your previous dose - now that i have seen many people unable to tolerate and stabilise on their previous dose it I would not want to try that again, but at the time i was a bit naive and was very, very lucky.

[Meimeiquest]

One of the most helpful things for me was to be driven around the countryside by a loved one.

[Altostrata]

needhope, you have to understand -- an ER doctor wouldn't know what to tell you. At the best, reinstatement would be suggested, but you can do that yourself.

[needhope]

needhope, do you have any idea how many mg of cymbalta are in the 12 beads? How many beads in a 30mg capsule? As suggested by Alto, you are most likely in acute withdrawal from the cymbalta and the prozac was way too stimulating for you. The reason Alto has suggested a low dose of cymbalta and then titrating up a little is that you may be senstitive now to cymbalta as well so you don't want to shock your system any more.

 

No I have no idea about mg's and granules. The granules are tiny and there have gotta be 1000+ in each capsule. It doesn't seem like it could possibly do anything, but yes I totally agree, I don't want to shock my system anymore either.

 

 

needhope, you have to understand -- an ER doctor wouldn't know what to tell you. At the best, reinstatement would be suggested, but you can do that yourself.

 

I sometimes get so desperate I want to hope I'll get a really smart doctor. I just wish I knew how much to take. It's just so difficult considering the variables like not knowing when it would decide to kick in. I appreciate your guidance and I know you are trying to help me while being cautious.

[Altostrata]

A really smart doctor would be 1 in 100, if that.

 

There are more like 200 beads in a capsule. 12 beads would be something like 6 milligrams.

[Nikki]

Have you thought about taking the benzo to get some relief? It sounds like you are in dire need of a break. You are not a criminal or a drug addict.

 

So what if benzo's are addictive. Taking one does not make you an addict. You may be able to interrupt this cycle you are in for a day or night, calm down, gather your thoughts, give your body a rest and then decide what to do.

 

If you do go to the ER, explain your situation and tell them you need to keep this simple.

More doctors know about WD than they did a few years ago. Word has gotten out thank heavens.

 

You do have options. The ER, a benzo for now, updosing the cymbalta, or trying something different. Effexor, Remeron, Mirtazapine, Seraquel, Paxil are very strong and very difficult to get off of. Zoloft can initially cause more anxiety.

 

I really feel for you. This is a suffering I never want to see anyone go thru. No one lives in your skin, but you. Gather your options.

 

I am so sorry this is happening to you.

 

Hugs

[Altostrata]

Sorry, Nikki, I disagree. I do not think emergency room physicians will recognize withdrawal syndrome.

 

needhope, trying one antidepressant after another to counter withdrawal syndrome is a real gamble. Other than rather quick reinstatement of the original drug, no one knows what substitute might work.

 

If I were you, I would not take various antidepressants to help your symptoms. You had a bad reaction to Prozac, which indicates your nervous system has become sensitized.

 

Since it's most likely Cymbalta that's caused your withdrawal symptoms, if I were you I'd try a small amount of Cymbalta to see if it can help them. The longer you wait, however, the less likely Cymbalta will work.

[needhope]

Yes Alto starting tomorrow I am going to raise the Cymbalta dose...I was able to get a holistic pdoc on the phone who is familiar with SSRI W/D who thought that was a good idea.I made sure she knew the time frame. She did admit there's a chance it could backfire but thought it much more likely it'd help.

Nikki you are so very sweet...thank you so much for your care and support.

[basildev]

Needhope,

 

I am sending hugs and good thoughts your way.

 

I hope you find some relief very soon.

[needhope]

Thank you so much :-)

[tezza]

Yes Alto starting tomorrow I am going to raise the Cymbalta dose...I was able to get a holistic pdoc on the phone who is familiar with SSRI W/D who thought that was a good idea.I made sure she knew the time frame. She did admit there's a chance it could backfire but thought it much more likely it'd help.

Nikki you are so very sweet...thank you so much for your care and support.

 

 

Needhope,

 

I'm glad you found a doctor that seems to be familiar with WD. I must say, however, that Alto has helped me tremendously and really knows what she is talking about. If you are more comfortable with a medical professional, by all means, go that route. There are few that know how to get people better once they've gotten themselves in a bind with these medicines.

 

If, indeed, she is as knowledgeable as it sounds, I'm sure Alto would like to add her to our list of "knowledgeable doctors", with the doctor's consent. Please continue to post regularly and keep us informed.

 

I sincerely hope you feel better soon!

 

Love,

Tezza

[Altostrata]

Exactly, tezza!

 

needhope, if you find you can recommend this doctor, please send me her contact information in a pm.

[needhope]

To update you guys I am having maybe worst morning ever. Usually it takes some time for the panic and hopelessness to kick in. I have had to resort to Ambien regularly now the last few days, and a half doesn't cut it anymore. Took a whole Ambien last night and slept 6 hrs (I know I shouldn't complain about that since some people can't sleep at all) then laid in anxiety for 2 more not wanting to get up so early to face the day. I feel I didn't think myself into a panic, more like I woke up that way. I broke down and just took .5 Klonopin.

 

As a reminder, starting on the 8th, I was reinstating a miniscule amount of Cymbalta, going from 6 beads to 12 beads through the course of 7 days. Yesterday I took about 10mg Cymbalta in the morning and was trying to be confident it would make me feel better. My family kept me busy as best they could and it was not a too-terrible day. But waking up this way, now I am unsure if I should continue with that reinstatement. Is it too early anyway for the way I feel to be related to that?

[tezza]

Hi needhope,

 

When I was in early, severe withdrawal, I never knew what to expect from morning to morning! It caused anxiety on top of the anxiety I already had. I understand about the six hours of sleep being disappointing too. I had those panicky wake-ups bad. It was even like I had been startled awake, this is fairly common in WD. It's caused by a spike in cortisol.

 

Ambien didn't help me the couple of times I tried it. I didn't use it anymore because it addictive as well. In all honesty, the only thing that helped was waiting it out. I was very unwell, destabilized for at least six months before I began leveling out. I am functional now but not my pre-drug self. I'm also still tapering. I've tapered several meds to fairly low dosages. Now, I'm going to have to go really slow!

 

It does get better but it takes time and patience.

 

Hugs,

Tezza

[needhope]

Thank you Tezza,I always appreciate your input.What scares the hell out of me is when u say 6 months to stabilize - and you were/are still tapering.I am running raw already and 6 minutes seems like a mountain to climb.

Sharing your random bad mornings does help though, thank you.

-Mike

Ps I'm starting to feel silly being known as needhope, so I can be Mike to anyone who wishes.

[tezza]

Hi Mike,

 

I'm sorry it scared you with the six months to stabilize, I just share that so others won't give up completely. It doesn't take everyone that long, some are better in a few days, some a few weeks. I was really scared that I would never feel better. I still have times that I get scared, unfortunately, even though I AM much better. It's just human nature, I guess.

 

Please be careful with the Ambien and klonopin.

 

Wishing you a great day!

 

Tezza

[needhope]

Thank u Tezza. I really do want to be careful with the Ambien and Klonopin but hell what do you do when u feel your very life is on the line?

[tezza]

Believe me, I understand...

[Altostrata]

You may have had rebound from the Ambien. This would be an increase in anxiety.

 

More is not necessarily better, particularly with benzos.

[needhope]

Ok I was able to sleep drug-free last night, which really surprised me. Of course I woke up a few times but was able to drop off again, which is the unusual part. It may have been helped because my sis stayed over. I just don't feel safe being alone like this. Can anyone relate to that?...it would help me to feel a bit less pathetic. I just feel very dependant in this condition.

[tezza]

Hi Mike,

 

I used to love 'alone' time. Now that I'm withdrawing, I fear "what if something happened to my husband?" I can definitely relate to that feeling. I have become more dependent than ever! I hope this goes away as I get better.

 

Tezza

[Altostrata]

If your sister's presence comforts you, why not spend more time with her?

[needhope]

Thanks a lot you two :-)

I'm naturally self-deprecating (something I HAVE to change for my life to improve - I hope talk therapy can help) so I'm always thinking geez I'm a 45yo man this is ridiculous. I need to keep reminding myself this is a special circumstance, not the norm, and will pass...or just have you all keep reminding me :-)

This is my third day of 10mg Cymbalta reinstatement and I want to hope it's starting to work...either that or a relatively good night of natural sleep has made today - so far - better than yesterday.

-Mike