Altoid: 4.5 yr off, bad wave!

[Altoid]

Hi,

This is my first post here. I belonged to 'another' forum years ago, but the negativity of the mods made me leave.

I have a question for you all:

My story in a nutshell is this:

I CT'd of Klonpin 6yr. ago, having no idea there could be a withdrawal. After 6 months of that, I thought the problem was that the Paxil I had been on for 7 years had quit working, so I figured, why take it! I cut down really fast, 50% and I got dreadfully sick. After another year of trying to 'stabilize' per advice of the other site, that never happened, so I CT'd that. That was 4.5 years ago. There last year I've felt nearly recovered, except for some lingering nerve pain in my neck/shoulders. I was really starting to live again.

In Dec. I got a virus, and took antibiotics. Right after that course I went into a wave that has not left in 7 weeks. I have been dreadfully ill again, like the early days of withdrawal sickness, and head symptoms, woozy/squeezy, all this have been gone for over two years.

To go from feeling healed to this nearly overnight is just beyond words.

I'd like to know if anyone else has experienced a really bad wave so far out, after feeling healed?

[basildev]

Hi Altoid,

 

Welcome to the forum and I'm so sorry you're going through a wave after all that hard work you have done healing.

 

To answer your question, this hasn't happened to me personally but I have read other stories on this site about going through an illness, perhaps having to take antibiotics etc...(or having to have an operation and general anaesthetic) and this causing an adverse effect on the CNS.

 

So that whereas before they were doing fine on their current dosage (or in your case, no dosage at all) and after the immune system is compromised, withdrawal symptoms set in again.

 

I'm not sure exactly why this happens or how common it is, but one of the more experienced people will be along very soon to explain in more detail and to give you some advice.

 

You will find lots of help and support on this forum.

 

I wish you well

[Jemima]

I'm not sure if what you're going through is really a wave or a bad reaction to an antibiotic. Most antibiotics wouldn't cause a problem but there are a few that can set off withdrawal symptoms. Please see this topic:

 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1126-any-trouble-taking-antibiotics/page__p__9979__hl__antibiotics__fromsearch__1#entry9979

 

Welcome to the forum, Altoid. You'll find lots of good information and friendly, gentle support here. I hope that you're feeling better very soon and that someone more knowledgable will be along shortly.

[Altoid]

Thanks for replying. I can't say 100% that it was the antibiotics that caused this wave, all I know for sure is that I have a hard time with A/Bs making me feel ill, but I was doing okay on them, then 2 days after I was done this wave hit, and it's not the first time that has made w/d sx worse, but this is by far the worst wave I've had after taking them, or in the last 2 years, maybe longer, period. The symtom's I'm having are 100% w/d.

Paxilhell flu, squeezy woozy head, weak feeling. A couple of days it was affecting my mood really badly.

[Mixter]

Which antibiotic? Give me name.

 

Virus infection could be Lyme. Please do IgeneX test asap. Your symptoms could be Lyme, dont rule it out.

[Altoid]

Hi Mixter,

I remember you from PP. I was Dawn B. there. Remember me?

It was amoxicillin. Nothing fancy. But taking it in the past has caused an increase in w/d sx. And I had to take two rounds of it in a row to boot.

Just never anything this bad. I'd just like to know if anyone has had a bad wave so far out, for any or no reason, after being so much recovered?

I don't have Lymes. There isn't even any Lymes where I live. There aren't even any ticks here. Very arid. I used to have people suggest that to me when I was in full blown w/d. I know someone that does have Lymes, (didn't get in were we live) and it's nothing like this.

I had a wave hit me out of the blue, no reason, last July. It was sort of like this, only not as intense. Lasted 6 weeks. I'm on 7 weeks of this one, and it's not eased up. Last July I went to PP to try to get some help, and all I got was mods telling me it couldn't possibly be w/d after 4 years and that I'd better go to a doctor. It was w/d, and it did go away. It's so very hard when I thought this was all behind me, to have it show up again.

[tezza]

Hi Altoid,

 

Welcome to our group! I'm so glad you've joined us! As Jemima said you will get lots of support here. Some people do have WD Syndrome that lasts for several years after a too fast taper. That doesn't exactly fit in your situation, everyone is different and you know your body better than anyone else.

 

It sounds like you've experienced some very long good windows and perhaps the antibiotic triggered a bad wave as you say. Be very gentle with yourself and I'm sure you will pull back out of this. I know this is very disappointing after feeling well for a long while.

 

My guess would be that your CNS still remembers the WD symptoms and destabilization, and since you've had trouble with antibiotics before, it was 'reminded' once again.

 

It might be a good idea to keep a journal, that way you will have a better idea of things to avoid in the future.

 

There's a lot of helpful information in Symptoms and Self-care.

 

Could you add your history in a signature like so:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Thank you and I hope you feel better soon!

 

Tezza

[Nikki]

Altoid

 

I just posted recently about having to take Keflex for two rounds. I never did well with antibiotics because they do have side effects. The last time I took Amoxicillian I got the hives. Never happened before.

 

My take on things is that AD's can cause sensitivities to other drugs and supplements. I have huge problems with Cipro and Levaquin and I am not WDing.

 

I understand there are after effects of doing a CT with Paxil which can last for quite some time.

 

Maybe it was the sensitivity created by Paxil, the antibiotic itself and the whole mixture.

 

For myself....once off the antibiotic, I go back to being just fine and think you will be too

[Altoid]

Thank you guys for your support. I sure need it right now.

I had a thought that my body looked at the A/B as a drug, and while I was on it, I had minimal side effects, but as soon as I stopped it, my body said, OMG! My drug is gone!!

My husband thinks my system it just on the border of normal, and that it threw it out of alignment again. I think either or both could be true. I remember reading something elsewhere a few years ago about A/B affecting the CNS. I have never done well with them, even before W/D and most of them I simply could not take, maybe if my life depended on it. Bad reactions.

Thank you for your support!!

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Altoid.

 

I would agree with your husband, the earlier adventures with psych drugs left your nervous system in a delicate balance, and the infection plus antibiotics threw it off again.

 

Look at our Symptoms and Self-care forum for gentle ways to support your nervous system righting itself again.

[Altoid]

Thanks Alto. I will look at that thread.

I appreciate the help here that I did not receive elsewhere.............

[Altoid]

I read that thread.

Interestingly, I've tried the vast majority of those things at one time or another, and found the usually had no effect on me at all, one way or another. Once is a while an herb like Valerian or Passion flower seemed to help slightly.

But actually, the past year I have not needed anything, cause except for lingering nerve pain, neck/shoulders, I was doing pretty good. That's why this horrid wave makes no sense to me!!

If anyone else out there had a bad wave this far out, please let me know. Moral support.

[solida]

Hello Altoid,

 

I caught a virus about two years ago(was my 4.year).At that time I was doing pretty good.I didn t take any antibiotic,but the virus did throw me in a horrible wave which lasted many months.I was so weak and felt so off-it was horrible.

 

Three weeks ago I had a surgery(you can read here) and I m just on the way to recover from this one..

 

I m sure you will feel better soon,lg solida

[Altostrata]

You might find acupuncture to be helpful.

[Altoid]

Hi Solida,

Thank you for that post. Sometimes it seems like I can be so Atypical from everyone else, though I'm sorry for what you experienced, I am glad to know I am not the only one.

Did the surgery make a wave happen? The trauma from it or the drugs involved?

Get well quickly!

How far out are you now?

 

Alto: I actually did do acupuncture, for the never pain. Once or twice it seemed to help, but for $70 a visit, I was not seeing much results, so I stopped. One of those trips I asked him to use a tens unit on the needles, and he did, and that worked much better. So I researched why. The frequency of the waves causes the body to release Serotonin and Dopamine. I found out that they use tens units in drug rehab places to quell the pain the people are going through. So, I bought a tens unit. It did help. I found it to be a benign, cost effective way to at least temporarily quell the pain. It was not as effective as using it was acupuncture though, my assumption is because the needles go in deep, (some of them anyway) and using one at home is merely stick on pads.

[Altostrata]

If acupuncture or your TENS unit helped only a little, you may wish to continue them to take the edge off your symptoms.

 

We can't expect something to immediately set us right. Often all we can do is diminish symptoms a bit and have patience until our systems heal.

[Altoid]

Except that by the time this wave hit, the pain stuff was mostly gone, at least gone enough I paid no attention to it.

The main symptoms now are the sick feeling, head woozy/squeezy, and weak feeling. The head stuff has eased a little in the past couple of days, so that's something!!

I read yesterday that Vitamin D is needed to make Serotonin, so I have been sitting out in the sun, the last three days, and I picked up some D capsules to boot.

Sure is WEIRD that the sx I have now are stuff I have not had in well over 2 years!!

Sure glad there is someone out there to talk to about it that knows it's real and can relate. .

[Altoid]

Hi,

Only posted here once before.

I'm 4.5 yr. post Paxil CT. Been doing a lot better in general, the main symptom I had left was nerve pain in my neck/shoulders.

Last Dec. I got sick and took amoxicillin. I was also under a lot of stress at the time. By Feb. 1st I was in a full blown wave with symptoms I had not had in a couple of year, chiefly Paxil flu, head wooziness, etc. It's been 15 weeks, and I am STILL having this horrible wave. Looking for some sort of encouragement or something. I would never have thought I could feel this horrible after so long of this stuff being gone.

[tezza]

Hi Altoid,

 

I'm sorry you're going through a rough patch! Unfortunately protracted WD syndrome does last years for some.

 

I merged your new topic with your existing topic. Please add updates in this thread by clicking the 'add reply' button at the bottom. It's easier to follow your situation if its all together.

 

Have you checked out the Symptoms and Self-care sub-forum? Lots of helpful suggestions there!

 

I hope you find relief soon!

[Altostrata]

Have you tried acupuncture and chiropractic? They helped me when I had nerve pain in my arms and shoulders.

[Altoid]

Yes, have done both. We talked about that, remember? Now that this wave hit, the nerve pain isn't.t much of an issue. It's changed to that wretched Paxil flu, woozy head stuff. Stuff has been gone for two years with only minor short waves. Not like this one, which has been very bad for 15 weeks with a few better days mixed into it here and there. After reading the protracted thread, I realized that I probably had a lot to do with this by over doing and stress. I just didn't think this far out it could go back to being so bad, and symptoms that had been gone a long time, returning.

I saw you post in 2011that said you had only been starting to feel "normalish" for the last 6 months. So now that it's 2 years later, how are you doing?

[Altostrata]

Sorry, I didn't remember the details.

 

In many ways, I'm feeling a lot better now.

[Altoid]

Glad you are feeling better now. I saw your post about now you are dealing with getting older. Do you think you are over all the withdrawal stuff?

[Altostrata]

Not quite, but almost.

[Altoid]

Not quite, but almost.

 

Glad you are doing well, and thanks for making this site. I was treated very badly at 'the other' site.

[Altostrata]

I'm sorry to hear that. What happened?

[Altoid]

I'm sorry to hear that. What happened?

 

I found that site in the very beginning of my CT, (after the fact) and at first they seemed really nice. There were many nice people on the board too. I did find an unyielding insistence that thing must be done a certain way, period. After a while it seemed counter productive for me to visit that site, as I was emotionally fragile, and there were a lot of really bad posts that I didn't want to read.

So moving forward, I moved into a period of a lot of nerve pain. I went back and posted there for support. It seemed that NO ONE had ever heard of this problem, and that there must be something else wrong me me, I was told I'd better go see a doctor. I knew better, I knew what I was feeling, and there were a couple of nice people that private messaged me and told me they had pain, and that they thought I had been treated poorly. Ironically, Aeroman was one of them. I found it odd that I could visit another site and people had nerve pain, but not there!

Okay, so about 6 months ago I had a wave, and it was that Paxil flu stuff mostly. I went back to the site, posted, and the mods told me that I could not be having a wave like that after being 4 year off, and that I needed to go see a doctor. I don't recall exactly what was said, but I did sort of get into a mild scrap with a mod over this, and decided I would not be going back. I did post how I had been treated poorly, and it did make it to the board. Basically, I came there for support, and all I got was told I was crazy, go see a doctor. Oh ya, I recall now that a particular mod said that 'at my age, it must be menopause'!! Can you believe that??

If I only took advise from that site, it would seem that no one but me ever had w/d that had horrible flu-ish sickness for a very long time, and that no other person every had nerve pain.

I had that flu-ish stuff from the very beginning, and it did not let up for 2.5 years. And now that I'm in a wave, that is what I have again.

[Altostrata]

It's a shame, they don't "believe in" prolonged withdrawal syndrome. They think it's caused by psychological factors.

[Altoid]

It's a shame, they don't "believe in" prolonged withdrawal syndrome. They think it's caused by psychological factors.

 

Yes, and it's ridiculous. Just this time with this wave, I was doing well, and actually thought I was really fully healed, then this hit. I certainly didn't think it on!!

It's a shame they are giving people wrong advise. That could make someone head to the shrink!

Ugg.........

[Altoid]

I have an email that says I have a reply to this thread from Iggy131313

but I'm not seeing in in the thread, even if I close it out and open it again.

[Altostrata]

She may have deleted it.

[Altoid]

Oh, okay, I didn't know you could delete a post. Thank you!

[btdt]

Except that by the time this wave hit, the pain stuff was mostly gone, at least gone enough I paid no attention to it.

The main symptoms now are the sick feeling, head woozy/squeezy, and weak feeling. The head stuff has eased a little in the past couple of days, so that's something!!

I read yesterday that Vitamin D is needed to make Serotonin, so I have been sitting out in the sun, the last three days, and I picked up some D capsules to boot.

Sure is WEIRD that the sx I have now are stuff I have not had in well over 2 years!!

Sure glad there is someone out there to talk to about it that knows it's real and can relate. .

It is interesting to me to learn Vit D is needed to make serotonin... I have noticed a lot of people in withdrawal have low serotonin.  I too had low Vit D and but had a reaction to |Vit D.  I wonder if our bodies are trying to self protect from too much serotonin at some point and put a stop on Vit D?  Sounds goofy maybe... don't know... Only know I was low on Vit D... was ordered to take it ... reaction to the 1000mg dose blinding light around my eyes followed by severe migraine type headache... never took that dose again.  Still doc ordered 400mg... after three days I could not sleep... anxiety went thru the roof... I was to take it a month could not do it... went on and off the 400mg dose waiting for my next apt and more tests with the specialist.... on a couple days off a couple day to get some sleep cause she insisted I needed it... could not reach her in between as she was on vacation.  Result of all that she said I was not taking enough Vit D needed to take more ... it could not cause the reaction I was having... she ignored everything I said so I ignored everything she said... 

End of story... she got paid I got aggravated.  

I still do not take Vit D I feel I should if I could tolerate it... I do eat foods containing vit D.  I have had three broken bones in three years.  Is this related to the low Vit D?  Perhaps but I need to live in the present too with some sense of peace... including sleeping.  

Some thing is off still have not found a doctor who cares to look at this.  I am interested in other stories relating to this....

 

In keeping with the topic of this thread... I have had bad waves this year... I am 5 1/2 years post ct effexor withdrawal... pain is a huge part of withdrawal... this I know as well as my name... protracted withdrawal exists I have it bad waves can come even past 4 years... pain is part of protracted withdrawal... hope that helps some with validation.  Peace.  

[Fitby50]

Have you tried acupuncture and chiropractic? They helped me when I had nerve pain in my arms and shoulders.

Hey, I am curious what kind of nerve pain in arms and shoulders you guys are talking about.  I have been dealing with bad tendonitis in my left shoulder and slight in my right. The pain is like no other I have ever felt.  Been going to PT and its helping some.  My left arm/shoulder is so weak I can barley pick up anything slightly heavy.  So the pain you guys talk about is that making your arms/muscles weak, or is it just pain??  I have no idea how this all started, I did not do anything to cause it, just kinda came on shortly after I stopped my Effexor.  Any info. would be great! 

[Altoid]

Hi Canada Member, Sorry, I don't see a 'name'.

The Vit D thing is interesting, and a couple of months ago I stumbled on the info that D is needed to make Serotonin. Of course, a lot of other things are needed as well.

Living in San Diego, and being outdoors a lot, I never gave this much thought. I am kind of a 'vitamin guru', in that I am well versed on them, supplents, natural, etc. My normal daily compliment of vitamins includes 600 IU of D.

A couple of people I know that live in my area found out they were deficient in D, and are now taking higher doses of D. My Doctor said she takes 1000 IU daily, her her husband takes 2000 IU, because he is darker skinned and dark skin she said doesn't make as much D.  So AFTER the wave hit, I added 1000 IU more of D. I capitalize AFTER, so that it's clear taking it didn't cause the wave.

I am not one that reacts much to supplements. Even taking all sorts of stuff like Valerian, Passion Flower, etc. during w/d has had little effect on me at all, though drugs on the other hand, are a different story.

The best way to get D is simply to go out in the sun. I am making concerted effort to make sure I get plenty of sun. I have never subscribed to the theories of sunshine being bad for your skin, and sunscreen which is laden with chemicals being your friend. I just don't use it, God created us to take in D from the sun, and you cannot if you are covered up or covered with sunscreen, hence the modern day epidemic of D deficiency.  The actual cause of skin cancer is not the sun, it's the lack of anti-oxidants in the skin, from a sadly lacking American diet.  I do thinkg there is great merit to getting out in the sun every day. Studies show people who are outside have less depression that those who do not, and that can likely be highly related to D intake. So if you can't take a D supplement, just get outside. Might be a little more challenging in Canada that here. 

So I am not 4 months since the wave hit. I now realize that a series of stressful events likely brought it on. At 4 months from the onset, and I just now getting better days. I trust the end is in sight. 

[Iggy131313]

THATS WONDERFUL NEWS ALTOID, I have been thinking of you, stress can most definitly affect w/d and bring on waves and I suspect that the antibiotic played its part, but its very promising that your reaction has been reletivly short lived and you are already seeing improvement. thanks for telling us, all too often we never hear when things are better and that can present a very bad picture of withdrawal, but I get it, when I have felt better I have moved away from the forums more, when it gets bad I come crawling back begging for help/

 

more healing to you. xx