compsports Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I just saw this article on NPR's site and was totally disgusted: http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2013/03/20/174750864/how-a-patients-suicide-changed-a-doctors-approach-to-guns ""Dr. Frank Dumont knew one of his favorite patients was getting depressed. When Dumont first started seeing him in his family practice, the man was in his 70s. He was active and fit; he enjoyed hiking into his 80s. But then things started to change. "He started complaining of his memory starting to slip," Dumont says. The man would forget where he had placed objects, and he'd struggle to remember simple words and phrases. Dumont prescribed antidepressants and saw him every eight weeks or so."" Why the heck was this guy prescribed antidepressants when memory issues can be due to so many reasons at that age? And even if it was a psych issue, why the heck didn't the physician followup with this guy sooner? Anyway, he tragically committed suicide with a gun due to his depression which sounds like it may have been induced by the AD. Of course, not knowing all the facts, I admit I am speculating but it sure seems that way. By the way, I am not for guns in any way shape or form but in this case, I think focusing on the guns totally misses the important points. What does everyone else think? CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Rhiannon Posted March 25, 2013 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 25, 2013 I think "ditto." Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010. Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea. Feb 15 2010: 300 mg Neurontin 200 Lamictal 10 Celexa 0.65 Xanax and 5 mg Ambien Feb 10 2014: 62 Lamictal 1.1 Celexa 0.135 Xanax 1.8 Valium Feb 10 2015: 50 Lamictal 0.875 Celexa 0.11 Xanax 1.5 Valium Feb 15 2016: 47.5 Lamictal 0.75 Celexa 0.0875 Xanax 1.42 Valium 2/12/20 12 0.045 0.007 1 May 2021 7 0.01 0.0037 1 Feb 2022 6 0!!! 0.00167 0.98 2.5 mg Ambien Oct 2022 4.5 mg Lamictal (off Celexa, off Xanax) 0.95 Valium Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 "One large study found that nearly half of all suicide victims had seen a primary care doctor within a month of killing themselves." And likely prescribed an SSRI. Link to study referenced won't open. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 "One large study found that nearly half of all suicide victims had seen a primary care doctor within a month of killing themselves." And likely prescribed an SSRI. Link to study referenced won't open. Thanks Rhi and Barb. Wow Barb, I had no idea about that. I will see if I can find the link to what you are referring to and attempt to access it. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Ok, now I am seething big time. In trying to find the link that Barb talked about, I found more details on the story I posted about at this link: http://www.cpr.org/article/Family_Doctors_Guns_and_Suicide ""So he started complaining after a few years, of his memory starting to slip, and having trouble with issues like remembering things that had happened recently, and remembering where he had placed objects, and maybe trying to think of an individual word he was trying to come up with. Reporter: Pretty typical stuff for the many older patients Dr. Dumont sees. Also pretty typical for this patient to start feeling depressed that his mind was starting to slip, and that aches and pains from arthritis meant he couldn’t do as much hiking as he used to."" So instead of helping the patient deal with the issues of memory loss and the aches and pains from his arthritis, just take the easy way out and give him an AD. Can't spend 16 minutes for a 15 minute visit because that might eat into the profit margin. The doctor committed malpractice in my opinion although sadly he would be seen as practicing what is the standard of care. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 Ok, I just sent this to the Colorado Public Radio general comments section. Couldn't find the email address for Mr. Whitney. "This is regarding the article by Eric Whitney, titled Family Doctors, Guns, and Suicide. In reading the article about the patient who tragically committed suicide, I am absolutely stunned that Mr. Whitney never asked Dr. Dumont why the patient was given an AD for getting upset about normal problems in aging that anyone would be upset about. He never asked what was done to assist the patient cope with these issue prior to issuing an AD. Furthermore, as one who is definitely not in favor of guns, I feel this issue is being used as a smoke screen to not investigate the possibility that this patient could have had adverse suicidal reactions to ADs. This is not unheard of according to Dr. David Healy who is not anti meds. Also, people who are elderly are quite med sensitive and the fact that this patient wasn't followed up until 8 weeks after the fact is a disgrace. Finally, as one who used to be a big fan of NPR, I am horrified at the sloppy reporting that took place in this situation. Sadly, that seems now to be the norm and not exception with your stories, particularly when it comes to psych med issues." CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 "One large study found that nearly half of all suicide victims had seen a primary care doctor within a month of killing themselves." And likely prescribed an SSRI. Link to study referenced won't open. Wow Barb, I had no idea about that. I will see if I can find the link to what you are referring to and attempt to access it. To clarify... the quote was pulled from the original article you posted. The comment about SSRIs was mine. Most geriatric people I know are on, or have been offered, SS/NRIs. Despite all we know (here on the forum), these drugs are still perceived as safe and benign and are prescribed with an attitude of "well, it can't hurt...". SSRIs are actually very dangerous for vascular conditions. Memory loss and depression are symptoms of cerebrovascular problems/ vascular dementia. Serotonergics worsen the condition. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compsports Posted March 25, 2013 Author Share Posted March 25, 2013 To clarify... the quote was pulled from the original article you posted. The comment about SSRIs was mine. Most geriatric people I know are on, or have been offered, SS/NRIs. Despite all we know (here on the forum), these drugs are still perceived as safe and benign and are prescribed with an attitude of "well, it can't hurt...". SSRIs are actually very dangerous for vascular conditions. Memory loss and depression are symptoms of cerebrovascular problems/ vascular dementia. Serotonergics worsen the condition . Oops, I guess I should have looked more closely before sending my comments to CPR. Still, I don't regret most of what I said. When my mother was alive, the nurse at the assisted living place thought an AD would do someone who was 93 alot of good. I had all I could do to not say anything nasty. CS Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010 Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006 Finished taper on June 10, 2010 Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016 Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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