Lilu: Depression worsened by meds

January 18, 2015

I tried the Mirtazapine for a few nights. The first night I fell asleep right away for 5 hrs. Probably was a fluke. After that it wouldn't put me to sleep at all. My tolerance for everything has gone way up. Don't know why the Psych would even prescribe this med. I'm in crisis mode of sleep deprivation and need something strong to give me a solid 8 hours of sleep for at least two weeks. I'm considering trying Temazepam/ Restoril. I need to stabilize first and foremost and calm my nervous system down. This is no way to live. I cannot handle withdrawal or sleep deprivation after 2 months of barely sleeping and being a nervous crying wreck.

January 18, 2015

I am not sure about throwing yet another med at the problem (so you did try the mirt) but of course your experience will be instructive for others.

I keep thinking about Michael Jackson. His story was featured on one of those TV shows about his last hours and I watched it. He kept getting stronger and stronger drugs until he was finally on an anesthetic for sleep.

I am so glad I suffered through the insomnia when I did. My sleep repaired itself and I became stronger in the process. You will find your solution one of these days, Lilu.

February 15, 2015

I have been in Insomnia hell for 3 months now. I am so distraught. I feel like my body has lost the ability to sleep.

I didn't realize that I was starting to experience what you call Cortisol Mornings. I was going out a lot and going to bed late, but waking up at 5 am. At first I was using Ambien and Klonopin, but Klonopin left me feeling lethargic the next day. So I asked my psychiatrist for something short-acting and gave me Ativan. The Ativan gave me side effects, so I didn't want to take it. Except that I couldn't go back to using Ambien or Klonopin, except at much higher doses than before, which still wouldn't give me the amount of sleep that they did before. So I continued using Ativan. Which eventually I learned it was the Ativan that knocked out my GABA system and desensitized the receptors to such a degree that my brain was no longer repsonding to weaker drugs like Ambien. My doc then proceeded to prescribe Lunesta and Sonata. The Lunesta works, but only at very high doses. 3 mgs is the highest dose. But even when I take 9 mg, I still get only 6 hrs of sleep. All of the Benzo-acting drugs, which I recently lerned include Ambien and other sleep drugs - all these drugs but especially Ambien and Klonopin are the reason why I was having uncontrollable crying spells. One night, in a desperate attempt to sleep, I took 15 mg of Ambien. Got only 3 hrs sleep. And spent the next day crying hysterically for 12 hrs.

So then, my psychiatrist told me about a new drug on the market called Belsomra and I agreed to try it. The first few night that I tried it, it didn't work. So I agreed to give Rameron (Mirtazapine) another try. Taking both of these together, I would get 4 to 5 hrs of sleep, and go into a weird state called pseudo-sleep or pseudo-insomnia, where you're dreaming a lot, and it feels like you're awake but you're actually sleeping.

Anyway, the Mirtazapine kicked in after 4 days, and all these nasty side effects started showing up. One of them is blurred vision. This really freaked me out. So I called my Doctor, and she said that it would be perfectly safe to stop the Rameron after 8 days of use. Wrong. One missed dose and I went into full-blown withdrawal! I didn't realize this at the time, I took more Belsomra and kept trying and trying to sleep. Except that I felt very restless, anxious, tense, agitated, and frustrated. There were feelings of dread and fear. My heart was racing/pounding, I had nausea, severe nasal congestion, indigestion, stomach pain, and diarrhea. I also had this inner shaking/trembling feeling. I didn't sleep at all. It was awful.

The next day I had crying spells, and towards the evening started getting worse anxiety. So I reinstated with 3.35 mg and within half and hour I felt much calmer. An hour later I took the rest of the dose since 7.5 is what I have been taking. I went to bed half an hour later. I took 7.5 mg of Belsomra, but an hour later I was still awake. So another full dose of Belsomra 15 mg and I was still awake 2 hrs later. I had to resort to Lunesta at 9 mg, so that I would be assured of 6 hrs of sleep. With all these drugs in my system, I was a zombie for most of the day today.

Ever since the missed dose, I've been having a lot of heart palpitations. (which developed after I quit Ativan, and went into Benzo withdrawal.) The whole idea of using Belsomra and Rameron was to not use a drug that acts on the GABA receptors.

Now I scared and crying a lot, because Belsomra doesn't seem to work on me. The Rameron has a lot of side effects, but I can't just stop it. I've 2 years of withdrawal side effects from Lexapro, and 3 months of the worst insomnia I have ever experienced. My nervous system and coping ability are weak.

I don't have the stamina to go through another horrible withdrawal. And I cannot function on 3 or 4 hr sleep. I just don't know what to do. I'm afraid to stay on the Mirtazapine, but now I see that even after 8 days on it, I have to taper it slowly. I just don't know how slowly. It doesn't make sense to taper a drug for 5 months that you've been on for 8 days! Doesn't that give the body more time to only get used to having the drug in it's system?

Or do I just stick with it, tolerate the side effects, let my GABA system restore itself, let my sleep come back to normal, and THEN at some future time go off the Mirtazapine. I'm just afraid that the longer I stay on it, the worse the withdrawal will be.

February 15, 2015

I would guess, based upon your account, that sleeping meds and orexin receptor antagonists weren't the solution for insomnia.

One of these days you might have to just stop trying meds for sleep. Or keep at them and put up with the crying spells. You have seen what we have to offer, I don't think anything new has been added to our arsenal since you last visited.

I hope for your sake you get it sorted out.

February 15, 2015

Oh, Lilu, I am so sorry that you are going through this level of Hell right now. It's really a waking nightmare.

First, let's get clear on the issues. If I'm understanding correctly, the first question is whether you should start tapering off the Mirtazapine (aka Remeron) now and deal with possible Mirtazapine withdrawal on top of everything else you've got going on right now, or stay on the Mirtazapine until your system settles in a bit more and you feel confident enough to deal with possible M. withdrawal. Is that an accurate assessment?

Of course I can't answer the question for you, but I can tell you how I might evaluate it for myself.

For me, what I've found is that without adequate rest, everything is more difficult and my judgment is less reliable. I'd make getting adequate rest your primary concern so that you have enough spoons to deal with the rest of your life and so that you can rely on your own judgment more. It's not entirely clear to me from your post how/if the Mirtazapine affects your sleep situation. I would prioritize sleep over everything else, but I'm not sure what might help with the sleep. When I was having trouble, I made use of a technique called "square breathing" and I also used some relaxation guided visualizations from YouTube. I also started taking a magnesium supplement to help with the pounding heart. If the problems hadn't let up, I was next going to try some marijuana edibles since I live in a state where that is legal. At least it's a plant and not a pharmaceutical, right?

The second thing (after emphasizing anything necessary to get your sleep under control) is something else that's been a big issue for me: the feeling of wasted time, or of failing, or of taking two steps backward. You absolutely have to work hard to re-frame what you are going through right now: you haven't wasted time. You have a new experience and new knowledge about your own system. None of the time that you are working on recovery is wasted. You are not who you were when you began this painful journey. If you have to step back and spend some more time withdrawing from this chemical, then so be it. You did what you felt you had to do to get through a terrible time.

Beating yourself up about it is pretty much the only thing guaranteed not to help you, so please try to be as kind to yourself as you would be to me if I was the one writing about going through this. You deserve the kindness.

1. Do what you can to get stable and rested.

2. When you're rested, you can fight your other battles much better.

Let me know if I've misunderstood anything. And please hang in there. You know that you have had better days in the past and that you can have better days in the future.

February 16, 2015

Oh, Lilu, I am so sorry that you are going through this level of Hell right now. It's really a waking nightmare.

First, let's get clear on the issues. If I'm understanding correctly, the first question is whether you should start tapering off the Mirtazapine (aka Remeron) now and deal with possible Mirtazapine withdrawal on top of everything else you've got going on right now, or stay on the Mirtazapine until your system settles in a bit more and you feel confident enough to deal with possible M. withdrawal. Is that an accurate assessment? -Yes

It's not entirely clear to me from your post how/if the Mirtazapine affects your sleep situation. I would prioritize sleep over everything else, but I'm not sure what might help with the sleep. When I was having trouble, I made use of a technique called "square breathing" and I also used some relaxation guided visualizations from YouTube. I also started taking a magnesium supplement to help with the pounding heart. If the problems hadn't let up, I was next going to try some marijuana edibles since I live in a state where that is legal. At least it's a plant and not a pharmaceutical, right?

The second thing (after emphasizing anything necessary to get your sleep under control) is something else that's been a big issue for me: the feeling of wasted time, or of failing, or of taking two steps backward. You absolutely have to work hard to re-frame what you are going through right now: you haven't wasted time. You have a new experience and new knowledge about your own system. None of the time that you are working on recovery is wasted. You are not who you were when you began this painful journey. If you have to step back and spend some more time withdrawing from this chemical, then so be it. You did what you felt you had to do to get through a terrible time.

Beating yourself up about it is pretty much the only thing guaranteed not to help you, so please try to be as kind to yourself as you would be to me if I was the one writing about going through this. You deserve the kindness.

1. Do what you can to get stable and rested.

2. When you're rested, you can fight your other battles much better.

Let me know if I've misunderstood anything. And please hang in there. You know that you have had better days in the past and that you can have better days in the future.

Hi Zang,

Thank you so much for your compassionate response. I knew I was turning to the right person for help. Your view is very similar to my boyfriend's view. That I should focus on stabilizing my sleep first, and deal with everything else later. Sleep affects everything. And I have had a very turbulent 3 months filled with crying spells, constant insomnia, benzo withdrawal, and emotional upheaval. Stabilizing sleep so that I can preserve my sanity makes sense to me.

The Rameron is slowly doing that. After taking 7.5 mg for 4 days, I started falling asleep right away, most of the time. If I wasn't anxious about something. But I would wake up about 4 or 5 hours later and feel awake or be in some sort of pseudo-sleep. Too tired to get up though. I have been getting very sleepy between 7 and 8 pm for quite a while now, and if I go to sleep at that time, I usually fall asleep right away. If I miss that sleep window, than it takes much longer to fall asleep.

The problem though are the side effects that have emerged. I wake up feeling quite drowsy and my body feels really tired. I don't feel rested. I have also started experiencing vision problems. Blurred vision and worsening vision. This side effect is really scary for me. I'm also having crying spells again, which probably means that the Rameron is depressing my CNS too much. Plus I have all the other common side effects which I can deal with for a while, unlike the blurred vision, which is unacceptable to me. Even as I type this, my eyes aren't totally focused. But that could also be because I've been crying.

I'm really scared of what I have gotten myself into with the Rameron. I'm afraid that the inevitable withdrawal that I will have to face will be worse than anything I've experienced before. I know I'm reacting to a possible future event that may or may not happen. But I just saw what missing one dose after taking this drug for 8 days did to me.

But I guess at this point I have no choice but to stay on the Mirtazapine because going from an unstable state to an even more unstable state is not a good option. Maybe all these side effects will subside soon. It's very frustrating because even though I'm sleeping better, I'm still not functioning well during the day. A lot of times I can't drive because I'm too drowsy. I don't know how you managed to go thru withdrawal while holding down a job. That is amazing. Really.

Anyway, thank you so much for your support and kind words. I really appreciate them.

February 16, 2015

Wow you've been through a lot even while tapering..I really hope you get some good sleep and stability soon!

February 16, 2015

Wow you've been through a lot even while tapering..I really hope you get some good sleep and stability soon!

Thank you. I had an amazing window for about a month back in October, early November. I thought I was cured. All my symptoms were gone... or so I thought. I thought I was cured. I thought it was all over. Spontaneous remission. I was sleeping without drugs. I felt happy. No drugs. No depression. No insomnia. I thought that finally I could reclaim my life.

Then a major event occurred in my life, which was both good and stressful at the same time. Lots of emotional upheaval. Insomnia followed. I tried so many things to fall asleep or to fall back asleep. I tried various hypnotherapy for insomnia sessions, deep breathing, progressive relaxation, cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia, journaling, stretching, qigong, reading, brainwave entrainment music, alcohol, warm milk, magnesium, inositol, valerian, probiotics, counting sheep, etc. Nothing worked and I turned to sleeping pills once again. It's not like I was wide awake in the middle of the night. I would be dead tired, having had only 3 hours of sleep the night before, barely able to keep my eyes open, and still I couldn't sleep.

I'm glad I keep a symptom journal, so I can go back and see that I tried so many things. So many things before I turned to sleeping pills in desperation.

June 10, 2015

Considering going back on Lexapro or trying Cymbalta. I've had the worst 7 months of my life.

6 months of daily severe insomnia and almost daily uncontrollable crying spells. I haven't been able to stop using Klonopin and/or Ambient to sleep. But they are barely working and are now giving me anxiety/panick attacks, racing heart when they wear off in the middle of the night.

Then a month ago, my boyfriend who was my entire world, the best love of my life, suddenly gave me the silent treatment. No breakup, no goodbye, no closure. He was everything to me. Now he won't return phone calls or emails or texts. He didn't even tell me exactly what he was mad about. He just discarded me like trash.

I've had what feels like a nervous breakdown. My insomnia and anxiety got worse. I have started having panick attacks. My heart races all the time. I'm devasted and broken hearted. I've entered a partial acute outpatient program to try to get my mind off him. I have been thinking about him 24/7 and reading online about the Narcissists and how they often have relationships that comprise of 3 phases: Idolize, Devalue, and Discard. I suspect that maybe he is a covert Narcissist.

Nevertheless, I haven't been able to function, and can't stop crying. I don't know what to do. I feel like nobody understands me. My reaction is severe not just because of the sudden abandonment but because I'm also a love addict. But aside from 12 step groups, I can't get a therapist who specializes in this.

Now at this new facility they gave me a new psychiatrist. An older European man who suggested Trileptal or Gabapentin. I looked up the side effects of these drugs and was shocked. They're awful.

My previous psychiatrist suggested that I go back to Lexapro since I already have experience with it and it wasn't that bad.

I'm so conflicted. I've spent almost 2 years withdrawing from Lexapro. So now only to go back to it.... how could I do that? But I'm so desperate, I'm constantly crying. This breakup has just destroyed me.

June 10, 2015

Lilu,

This is terrible news and I feel for you.

My suggestion is that you stay away from cymbalta and go back to the devil you know. You can always taper back off when the time comes.

In my mind, I have often thought back to when I went on meds this last time. I was unable to work from the constant crying but who was going to take care of me? Certainly not my parents. So the meds pulled me out and I don't know what else can do that. Granted, we know their pitfalls but what else can you do?

If the boyfriend thing had not happened and you were well supported in your life then there's a chance you could turn things around without meds. But there's too much against you and it will take time to work through it all. There have been others here who have had to go back to the meds but now they are doing it with their eyes open.

Let us know how things go for you, ok?

June 10, 2015

Lilu I am so sorry to see that you have been treated so badly, all I can say about him is that he isn't worth your tears and you deserve better than that.

What you are feeling is normal in those circumstances, you are rejected, hurt, and grieving. New meds will not alter that, you need to process the grief however painful it is. You will get over it, but in the meantime feel the grief and cry when you want to cry. Go to the cursing thread in off topic and let it out, you can call him whatever you like in there!

It might be an idea for you to post in the benzo section, maybe Skyler or Rhi could suggest the best way of dosing the benzos for you, as you are getting interdose withdrawal. A huge squishy Mamma hug is on it's way.

June 11, 2015

Lilu, I'm sorry about your withdrawal and your breakup on top of that. It must be really difficult. I understand the daily crying spells I live like that too. I've tried going back on antidepressants but they harm me now. If they didn't harm me I would try them again, I did well on them before withdrawal and polydrugging, my life was better. But now it's too late. I know most people here are anti-drugs, but if I were you and you could tolerate lexapro again and feel better, I would do it just to stop the suffering. However, sometimes reinstatement is worse, as in my case.

It's better you're not with that man that is incapable of loving. This will give you a chance to learn to love yourself and later on you'll find someone who can love you and support you. I've had my share of narcissists, they only make depression and self-esteem worse. Thankfully I found someone who loves me no matter what even with all my mood swings from withdrawal. You'll find someone who will love you genuinely. You deserve that.

June 11, 2015

Thank you all for you love and support and advice. I have decided to go back to Lexapro. I hope I can handle it. I just have no more fight in me left.

June 11, 2015

I'm very sorry for your situation Lilu. Your boyfriend may have discarded you but you are not trash. It will take some time to heal from this so you do it in the best way you see fit. If that means medication there's no shame in that. Be kind to yourself and cry as much as you like. Time will heal your heart. Take very, very good care of yourself Lilu.

June 12, 2015

Agreed - be kind to yourself. Be as kind to yourself as you would be to a friend who was going through what you're going through.

Hang in there.

July 6, 2015

I just caught up with your thread Lilu. I'm sorry this has happened, I know what its like to be suddenly discarded by one of these personality types, its not like any other kind of break-up and you really have to experience it to understand just how destabilizing it can be.

I found some information which may help you get on the road to recovery from this set back. But do take care of yourself and find other resources to help and support yourself through this. I found a lot of support sites for recovering from narcissistic abuse by searching.

Here is some information from http://datingasociopath.com/recovery-and-healing-after-dating-a-sociopath/coping-with-pain-after-discard/

"The regular pattern of a narcissist is

Idealise
Devalue
Discard

Whilst all sociopaths are narcissists, not all narcissists are sociopaths.

The sociopath, is a compulsive pathological liar. Because of this, you do not always witness the devalue stage to your face. The more charismatic that the sociopath is, the less likely you will be to witness the devalue stage. Remember that the sociopath finds being honest, and telling the truth, more difficult to say, than the lie.

This means that you can see the relationship move swiftly, from idealise – discard, and not witness the devalue stage. The devaluing stage is happening, but not to your face. It will be happening behind your back. The narcissist would openly devalue you, put you down, belittle you and will undermine you. A charismatic sociopath struggles with the truth. For the charismatic sociopath, telling the truth is more painful than telling the lie, or keeping up pretence. Due to this, is common, that you will not witness the relationship coming to an end, as you would in an ordinary relationship. It is often sudden and without warning.....

...How do you get over this?
You might wonder how do you get over this? How can you get over this if you have no answers? You might wonder if the sociopath is going to come back, and you might have a longing for the honeymoon period again. You might be left feeling bewildered and confused.

Remember NOBODY stays confused forever
Remember that the sociopath is a liar, you couldn’t get the truth when you were IN the relationship – you therefore won’t get the truth when it has ended
No contact is the way for YOU to regain control
Block email, phone, text, social networking sites, and take back control of you, and your life
Yes YOU can choose to move on from this!
Read as much as you can. Find out as much information as you can. The more you learn, the more you understand, the quicker you will become set free
Take back your energy, and start loving YOU
Every day do something that makes you happy
Stay with the present
Think positive (you are what you think)
Realise that this is NOT your fault, there is nothing that you have done wrong (no matter what he says)
Don’t waste time wondering what he is doing
Make contact with others who have been through the same thing
Make yourself some new life goals
Be gentle on yourself
The most important rule of all is to NOT expect closure or answers from the sociopath
Remember – the sociopath is the liar, and if he gets back in touch, it is only because he wants to use you for further supply – you deserve better
Also remember that this is not just you, there are millions of us who have been through the same thing, which is why we can write and all understand each other"

If you have started taking Lexapro, please would you add that to your signature...date and dose.

July 6, 2015

Just to throw something else into the mix but have you ever considered that you withdrew from Lexapro to quickly. I have looked over at your thread and at one point you were dropping 10% per week. (I thought it was 10% per month that was advised) You then fell apart with the sleep soon after you finished your taper. At this time you introduced other drugs. Do you think that maybe your CNS was already destabilized by a too fast taper and then you went into withdrawal. If this is the case you would have then been further destabilized by the other meds. On top of that you had a bad breakup. Maybe take a deep breath and try to think if this may have been the case. If so then maybe a small reinstate, just a tiny dose to see if it eases withdrawal. Other than that I'd go back to the basic principle of this site and not add or change any other meds or you will only do yourself more damage. Others with more experience may like to comment on this theory. Best of luck.

July 16, 2015

Oh my God, I am so freaking pissed at my new psychiatrist I could scream!

So against my better judgement, and at the insistence of the Psychiatrist, I started taking Klonopin, about .5 every day. I also went back to taking Lexapro 5 mg. It's been about 5 weeks. I started having terrible side effects from the Lexapro. Side effects that I didn't have the first time around. I was hit with severe nasal congestion, stomach pain, dry mouth, increased thirst, incontinence, IBS, and the list goes on. The only good thing that the Lexapro did was lessen my crying spells. However it didn't seem to help my insomnia.

The Klonopin, it seems, was the one that was helping me sleep better, at least at first. Then all of a sudden about a week ago, the Klonopin went paradoxical on me. I started waking up after 2 hours of taking Klonopin, with a fast shallow breath.severe restless legs and Akathisia. I was up for hours pacing around my apartment. Moving my arms and legs trying to get the restlessness out. I had severe stomach pain, nervousness, felt jittery, and frantic. I spent a week on 3 to 4 hours of sleep and started having crying spells during the day. Along with sensitivity to noise, vibration, touch and a feeling of inner vibration.

The freaking doctor wouldn't believe that I'm having a paradoxical reaction to Klonopin and insisted that my symptoms are because sometimes I haven't taken a consistent dose. But I know from experience that is not true. I was taking the Klonopin everyday, so I know I wasn't going into withdrawal. I had better sleep when I used to take Klonopin once every 3 days!

I've confirmed to myself that this was due to Klonopin going paradoxical after skipping it last night, and falling asleep on my own for 4 hours, and waking up without the restlessness and shallow breathing. So at this point I have no choice but to quit Klonopin cold turkey.

The thing is that I have also quit Lexapro cold turkey. The doctor insisted that at 5 mgs for only 5 weeks, it was ridiculous to taper the Lexapro. But now on day 3 of CT, I'm feeling the withdrawal symptoms.

The doctor wants me to start taking Gabapentin, at a low dose of 100 mg morning and night. I know that this drug helps offset benzo withdrawal. But will it also help offset the Lexapro withdrawal? Or should I reinstate the Lexapro and taper it for a little while?

These people that I'm dealing with, at this partial hospital program are practically militant with their requirements. I've requested to be transferred to outpatient program but they won't do it until they see that I'm stable. I don't feel comfortable lying about my medication usage, but I can see that this psychiatrist is as ******* clueless as the rest of them.

I'm afraid of the Gabapentin, but I know that going through a double withdrawal on top of my 7 month insomnia and shattered nervous system is just a bad idea. It seems like I have no choice but to try it, to give my Gaba system a break. I can't not sleep. I can't use Klonopin anymore. Ambien gives me 2-3 hrs of sleep and causes crying spells, so I need to stop using it.

I still have liquid lexapro, but it's like a year old and was not refrigerated. (not that it was supposed to be i think).

I'm supposed to start the Neurontin tonight. But I am still wondering if I should reinstate the Lexapro. Maybe 2 ml in liquid form? Or just go with the Neurontin?

What a effing nightmare. I really thought that going back to Lexapro was going to help me get better. I never expected to have side effects that I didn't have the first time around.

July 16, 2015

I'm really scared of the Gabapentin - one of the common side effects is uncontrollable eye movements! My eyes seem to be easily affected by drugs. I had blurred vision before on Lexapro and severe blurred vision on Rameron. I just don't know what to do anymore.

July 19, 2015

Thank you for updating your signature Lilu. But I think now you need to update it again with two more cold turkeys. I really don't know what to suggest at this point, apart from maybe its time to consider that drugs are not a solution any longer. Perhaps your nervous system has reached its limit of resiliency and can no longer cope with all the changes.

Maybe reading back through your thread from the beginning might help you get a clear picture. Also this topic:

The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

I don't recommend starting on a new drug, not only because this site is a forum for tapering off drugs, but because I'm concerned that your nervous system is at the 'Humpty Dumpty' stage, about to fall off the wall, that's if it hasn't already.

Perhaps reinstating just 1mg of lexapro, then if you can stabilize on that, holding for a long time before you begin slowly tapering from it.

The problem with the Klonopin may have been that you were only taking it once a day. When the NS becomes sensitized by withdrawal, its very easy to get a rebound, interdose reaction from the shorter acting benzos. For more help with this, you need to go to:

Members-only benzo forum

I expect that if you continue going on and off drugs now, its going to make your situation worse.

I really empathize with your situation. I had a similar breakup, two actually, while dealing with drug and withdrawal issues. It wasn't until I distanced myself from bad relationships and trying to fix things with drugs that I could make even the smallest step towards recovery, but by that time, I had already fallen off the wall.

July 19, 2015

Thanks for your response Petunia. I know I haven't kept it simple. The awful insomnia that had started last November made me desperate to try anything. And my doctor was willing to prescribe it. The current doctor is much more discriminating as to what he prescribes. Klonopin is actually a long-acting benzo with a half life of 48 hours. I don't know what caused the paradoxical effect, but Altostrata had written that after withdrawal benzos can do that. Any drug can. Going back on Lexapro is not an option anymore, it was causing me way too many side effects. I have agreed to try Gabapentin, just to get through the Klonopin withdrawal and hopefully get my sleep back. As well as get my crying spells under control. We'll see if it does. I'm quite paranoid about this new medication, as it is known to have so many side effects.

It's been a problem communicating with my new doctor. I cannot reach him directly. Only through my counselor. It's driving me crazy that I cannot talk to him and ask him questions directly because I'm in this partial hosp program.

Like last night was the first night of all the Klonopin being out of my system, and I only slept for 4 hours. I'd like to try taking Gabapentin only at night at a double dose (which would be 200 mg - still below minimum) but I can't ask him. I want to take the drug only at night, but he insists on twice a day dosing. I've been in a constantly drowsy state. But it's really only been a few days. I read online that people do take 200 mg of Gabapentin just for insomnia at night.

I'm trying to be more compliant with this doctor. I've done enough damage to my nervous system managing my own meds for 7 months. Still, if I see that a drug is making me sick, I will refuse to take it. This doctor actually wanted me to stay on the Klonopin and taper it. Which I can understand, but if a drug is clearly making a patient sick, why the f*ck do you keep insisting the patient keeps taking it. When he saw what kind of state I was in, he wanted to hospitalize me! Instead of admitting that it's the drug that's doing the damage.

I know this is a forum for withdrawing from drugs, and I have no intention on staying on Gabapentin for a long time. I just want to get stable and heal my nervous system. Gabapentin is used for benzo withdrawal, so since I'm not able to taper Klonopin, and I now have a tolerance to all the Gaba drugs, that seemed like the only way to go.

I'm so so tired of all this. I was so close back in October/November of 2014. So close. I actually had 40 days of feeling good. Then I got involved with this guy who brought both unbelievable love and understanding as well as chaos and tons of misunderstanding.

July 20, 2015

Just to throw something else into the mix but have you ever considered that you withdrew from Lexapro to quickly. I have looked over at your thread and at one point you were dropping 10% per week. (I thought it was 10% per month that was advised) You then fell apart with the sleep soon after you finished your taper. At this time you introduced other drugs. Do you think that maybe your CNS was already destabilized by a too fast taper and then you went into withdrawal. If this is the case you would have then been further destabilized by the other meds. On top of that you had a bad breakup. Maybe take a deep breath and try to think if this may have been the case. If so then maybe a small reinstate, just a tiny dose to see if it eases withdrawal. Other than that I'd go back to the basic principle of this site and not add or change any other meds or you will only do yourself more damage. Others with more experience may like to comment on this theory. Best of luck.

I know this site recommends a taper of 10% per month. But I saw that Dr. Glenmullen recommended 10% per week or 2 weeks. As it is, it took me over a year to taper from just 5 mg of Lexapro. In retrospect I wish I did it even faster, and had let my brain start healing earlier without being fed any drug at all. This way, it was like I was keeping it hanging by giving it, teasing it with tiny amounts of Lexapro. That's how it seems to me anyway.

I did have a rough month a half after I finished my taper. But then I suddenly started feeling great and was symptom free and all medication free.

Unfortunately I met & fell in love with a guy who created a lot of ups & downs in my life. The relationship really threw me off balance and that's when the insomnia and the cortisol mornings started. I went back to using Ambien & klonopin and the crying spells started. It was all downhill from there.

July 21, 2015

I'm in withdrawal insomnia hell. I don't know what to do anymore. I can't talk to my doctor. He seems to disregard what I'm going through. He just wants me to go to a Psychiatric hospital. This I know is a bad idea. I'm a nervous wreck already. My anxiety is through the roof. I'm so sleep deprived that I'm jittery and shaky inside. I'm crying all the time. I slept only 2.5 hrs last night and 3 and 4 the nights before that.

Ever since Klonopin went paradoxical it's been hell. I tried taking double my usual dose of Gabapentin, 200 mgs. But it did nothing. I've also started experiencing these involuntary muscle spasms where my whole body jerks, like 10 times i a row, when I try to listen to my usual sleep music at night on an mp3 player. I took the Gaba at 8:30pm, but by 12 am I was still awake. So I decided to try Klonopin again .5 mg, and it relaxed me and put me to sleep. BUT 2.5 hrs later the paradoxical reaction kicked in and I woke up with restless legs, akathisia, shallow breathing, and anxiety. Everytime I tried to go back to bed, I got restless legs and/or racing heart. I've spent hours crying and agonizing about this.

Do I go back to taking Lexapro? Do I try Cymbalta? Maybe I need a higher dose of the Gabapentin? Do I just quit everything and see what happens? I can't keep going on 3 hours of sleep. My stomach is constantly upset, I'm so jittery and shaky and afraid. I just don't know what to do.

July 21, 2015

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/4149-lilu-depression-worsened-by-meds/page-6

I have severe insomnia and stomach upset and crying spells. I cold-turkeyd Lexapro after 5 weeks and Klonopin after on & off for a year and then daily for 5 weeks. Quit Klonopin because it has gone paradoxical. Doctor thought tapering Lexapro after 5 weeks was ridiculous. Assured me that Gabapentin would take care of any withdrawal or that there wouldn't be any withdrawal. I feel awful. Doctor keeps saying to just keep taking the Gabapentin, but I can't sleep. I'm a nervous wreck. Thinking of going to the Hospital but very afraid. They won't understand. I have a tolerance for all sleep meds and side effects from everything. I get only 3 hrs from 10 mg of Ambien, but then get crying spells and lately both Klonopin and Ambien have been giving me an upset stomach as well as a racing heartbeat, shallow breathing, restlessness. But I'm so desperate to sleep. Can't function. So exhausted. I don't know what to do. Doctor is ignoring my phone calls and not telling me what to do. They tell me to go to a Psychiatric Hospital. But I had traumatic experiences at hospitals and ERs.

I'm so anxious, I've been running to the bathroom all day, worried sick about how I'm going to sleep tonight.

July 21, 2015

Lilu,

I moved your post from the tapering section, it's more appropriate here in your thread. I recommend you read and consider Petunia's post above. To me it seems like you always want the quick fix, very understandable but at some point you have to stop doing that and put in place a well considered longer term plan to calm your nervous system and work out how to be well without drugs.

We are never going to recommend throwing high doses of anything at a destabilised nervous system, nor will we advocate starting a new drug.

My reading of your thread suggests that you rarely take our advice, you choose your own path and then do some research to find something to back up what you want to do. And thus hasn't worked well for you. Your experimenting with 'fixes' in the context of a destabilised nervous system has been very detrimental.

You have to get control over your anxiety about not sleeping - that's enough to cause insomnia - and find some courage and determination to get well no matter how long it takes rather than looking for the quick fix.

The best advice on how to avoid a destabilised nervous system is here. The best advice on what to do once you've got one is here, the best advice on non drug treatments for anxiety, depression is here. Rather than doing everything that is contrary to the collective wisdom offered to you and paying the price for it, maybe listen to what Petunia said.

Dalsaan

July 25, 2015

I'm so sorry you're going through all this, Lilu. Losing sleep is so awful and makes everything else so difficult.

The Gabapentin has been amazing for me, and we have been put through the ringer these past few months. When racing thoughts and concerns about my stepson kept me from sleeping, I started taking just .25 mg of Xanax, and that has been a tremendous help to me. I only take it about once a week, when things are really difficult with my stepson. I'm afraid of the benzos, so I'm super careful about taking the Xanax.

Hang in there. I don't have much advice to offer and no medical knowledge, but I'm willing to listen whenever you need to vent.

Take care of yourself as best you can.

July 25, 2015

I cold turkey'd off Zoloft. The first two weeks were brain zaps, flu like symptoms, racing mind. After that came psychotic depression which led me want to kill myself. Now seven months into wd I am having to take 10 mgs of latuda just to function but barely and I'm talking about basic self care like eating grooming. I've lost everything and have to move in with family now. I wish I'd known I was making a mistake by cold turkey'g.

August 19, 2015

Something awful has happened to me. After quitting Klonopin cold turkey because it suddenly went paradoxical, and starting Gabapentin at the same time, I developed what is called Myoclonus. But I have a very severe form of it. I get many very strong convulsions of the back, hips, and knees, which jerks my whole body really hard. For the first 3 weeks it was only when I would go to bed at night. Then suddenly it started happening whenever I would lie down and relax, very quickly progressing to sitting and standing "seizures". It happens all day and all night long. I can't sleep unless I take Zanaflex, which only lets me sleep for an hour. I was hospitalized for 4 days and they couldn't find a neurological cause for these severe myoclonic jerks. The jerking is so severe that it's no longer safe for me to drive. I am now totally dependent on my father to drive me places. I'm stuck at home unable to rest or to sleep. I don't know what is causing the myoclonus. Is it from quitting Klonopin cold turkey. Or is it from using Gabapentin. They started 4 days after I started using it, but coincided with quitting Klonopin. I have severe anxiety and a pounding heartbeat, inner shaking, stomach pain, severe sleep deprivation. I am frantic and desperate and none of the doctors that I saw know how to help me. My psychiatrist wants me to raise my Lexapro back up to 5 mg, but I'm afraid cause it caused me severe nasal congestion. The Baclafen is not helping the convulsions at all. But it does make me sleepy if I take a higher dose. The Zanaflex reduces the convulsions considerably, but only works for 2 or 3 hrs.

I can't believe this is happening to me. I'm so frantic and desperate for rest.

August 19, 2015

I am really sorry to hear about this, Lilu.

August 19, 2015

Very sorry to hear of this, Lilu. It sounds like severe withdrawal syndrome from cold-turkeying the benzo.

Go here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-tapering-discussion/to discuss reinstatement.

September 6, 2015

Very sorry to hear of this, Lilu. It sounds like severe withdrawal syndrome from cold-turkeying the benzo.

Go here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/forum/29-members-only-benzo-tapering-discussion/to discuss reinstatement.

Thanks, Alto. I don't believe that the myoclonic jerks are a result of klonopin CT. I was not on Klonopin for very long. Only 2 months of daily use. And going back on a benzo is not an option, since the Klonopin started causing a severe adverse reaction and making me very sick. Ambien too. I believe that I've developed GABA Tolerance.

My gut feeling is that the Myoclonus is a rare reaction to the Neurontin. Jerking movements are a documented side effect of Neurontin. Neurontin and other anti-convulsants are used to treat Myoclonus. So if it was caused by Klonopin withdrawal, then the Neurontin should have made the jerking better, not progressively worse. My mistake was the fact that I kept taking it for 3 weeks and the jerking became unbelievably severe. Sometimes Neurontin can cause this if there's an underlying seizure disorder. I was hospitalized for 4 days, but all tests came back negative.

It's been a month since my last dose of Neurontin, but the Myoclonus has shown no sign of alleviating.

The muscle-relaxant BACLOFEN has been a life-saver. For the first time in 10 months, I am sleeping 8 hours per night. I have almost no side effects from it, but I am worried about withdrawal when the time comes to get off of it. It turns out that this medication is also used for Benzo withdrawal. It affects GABA B receptors. And also requires tapering. But right now I have no choice but to take it. It is helping my nervous system to heal. I'm calm and am able to rest most of the time. Except when my body is jerking, which can sometimes be 50 times within a half hour or more.

My crying spells have also vanished. And I'm not sure if it's because I'm back on a low dose of Lexapro or if the Baclofen has something to do with it. Or if it's a result of simply eliminating Klonopin and Ambien, which worsened and/or caused the crying spells to begin with. Either way, I'm planning to taper the Lexapro once again while I'm on the Baclofen to temper the side effects.

Soon I will see another Neurologist who hopefully try to identify the cause and not dismiss the Myoclonus as a result of my anxiety, or espouse some other psycho-babble nonsense. The last Neurologist I saw, completely invalidated my experience, and told me that my body is jerking because I'm expecting the jerking to happen. In reality, nothing can be further from the truth.

September 6, 2015

Good to hear the improvement. What a load of bs about 'expecting the jerking to happen'..no believe it or not all these things are not just in our chemical messed up mind..

February 4, 2016

uncomfortablynumb, on 03 Feb 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:
Hi,
I was reading stuff on sleep problems and I read a bit of your story. We have been drugged on similar drugs for about the same length of time. I am wondering how your sleep is lately? I am pretty fresh into WD and it is horrible. I got many nights in a row with no sleep - just rest. Then I become anxious and cannot even rest anymore and I reach for the ativan. I have to do this until I find a non-med option to help me though. Just wanted to say hi and see how your progress is going.

Hi, my sleep is much improved. I went back on Lexapro 5 mg and am still on Baclofen. Ativan and Klonopin and Ambien really messed up my nervous system and made my insomnia worse. Doctors should not be prescribing Ativan to people at home. It is a drug that was designed to treat Panic Attacks. It only screws up your body's ability to sleep and creates Gaba Tolerance. The hell I went through for 2 years was not worth it. My brain has been changed too much by these drugs. The other mistake I made was to taper by 10% per week instead of per month.

Withdrawal destroyed my nervous system. My sleep has been slowly recovering over the last 6 months, and is still not at a 100%. I still have Myoclonus, which manifests itself as very strong jerks in the base of my spine. When it happens, my whole body jerks, whether I'm sitting, standing or lying down. It's worst when I'm lying down. I don't when and if it'll ever will go away. It seems to get worse when I'm anxious.

My insomnia also returns whenever I get stressed or anxious as well, but I'm often able to go back to sleep after being awake for 2 to 4 hours. I also seem to get insomnia whenever I try to lower the Baclofen, which I was prescribed for the Myoclonus. So that's another withdrawal that I have to tackle somehow.

I am completely horrified by withdrawal and the absolute hell that it put me through. In retrospect, I wish I had just gone back on Lexapro when the withdrawal started, instead of trying one drug after another with disastrous side effects with each one. But hey, as always, hindsight is 2020.

At this point, I don't know if I will ever try to get off of Lexapro. Maybe if it stops working. After my dose had gone up to 4 mg, my crying spells completely disappeared. I had spent an entire YEAR crying uncontrollably for hours almost every day. It is insane that I endured that. Just insane. The amount of suffering I went through because of this withdrawal is unimaginable to most people. I'd rather be on meds for the rest of my life than to ever go through that again.

To be able to get through breakfast without choking down tears, to be able to sleep peacefully through the night, to wake up rested, to not feel depressed and hopeless every single day...well, that's just priceless.

February 4, 2016

Please, guys, post in my thread instead of sending me private messages. Thanks.

May 25, 2016

On crying spells and more....

I think the intensity and duration of crying spells will be different for everybody. We're all on different medications, dosages, and duration. We all have highly individual body and brain chemistry, which affects every aspect of withdrawal.

For me, the crying spells became progressively worse with the tapering of medication. If I went below 2 mg Lexapro I go worse, if I went back up, I got better. After I finished the taper, and developed severe insomnia, I was crying pretty much all day. This wasn't just the kind of crying where you just tear-up a little on and off. No, this was full-blown uncontrollable inconsolable out-loud sobbing that felt like my soul was being ripped out of my chest. Tragic. Intense. Awful. My eyes hurt every day and my vision was blurry because I was crying so much. Then came night time which did not offer any respite from the suffering of the day. The unrelenting insomnia kept me tossing and turning, wide-eyed and panicked.

I tried everything. Nothing helped. I tried every supplement suggested here and many prescription meds. I tried hypnosis, deep breathing, meditation, qigong, guided imagery, cognitive behavioral therapy, group therapy, talk therapy, and more.

Attempting to withdraw from psychiatric drugs after being on them for 10 years was a HUGE MISTAKE. It robbed me of years off my life, my livelihood, money, friends, and worst of all my health. Because of the inordinate amount of crying that I engaged in everyday and the breakdown of my nervous system, I wound up with PTSD (Post Traumatic Stress Disorder) and a Movement Disorder.

I have since mostly recovered from all of the above. The only way to achieve this recovery was to go back on Lexapro. Aside from not going on antidepressants in the first place, this is the antidepressant I should have been on, not Effexor or Pristiq, which raised my anxiety and were barely effective.

As I went back on Lexapro, I used liquid generic Lexapro * to taper UP. Within 3 weeks there was a marked improvement in my sleep. (I also stopped Klonopin and Ambien cold turkey). My crying spells significantly decreased at 2 mg. And my depression slowly began to lift. At 2.5 mg there was still occasional crying spells, but my sleep was steadily improving. However it wasn't until I reached 4 mg where I really started to see a difference. There have been no crying spells at 5 mg. Still I continued to be plagued by trauma memories of all my torturous experiences due to withdrawal. I wish I had never attempted getting off antidepressants.

Being on Lexapro 5 mg for 5 months now, I do not have crying spells anymore and I'm sleeping 8 to 10 hours per night. My nervous system has recovered and I don't have panic attacks or anxiety for no reason. I can drink strong coffee again! My movement disorder, Functional Spinal Myoclonus, has almost disappeared. It has taken me almost a year to get to this point. I still have lingering depression, but I think at this point it is mostly due to my isolation, (no friends, no job). But at least now, I am mentally well enough to think about trying to volunteer somewhere and eventually get a job again.

The fact is that I was in denial about the severity of my depression for a long time. I've had crying spells and melancholia since I was a teenager. I have been plagued by thoughts of death all my life - fearing the death of my loved ones, and being chronically suicidal. I have always suffered from "love addiction" and completely fall apart when lovers or close girlfriends leave me. This was my reality BEFORE I ever took an antidepressant.

Some people on this website claim that depression is a symptom of abusive childhoods or a side-effect of medication. My mental problems can definitely be contributed to an emotionally abusive parent. However, no amount of therapy has helped. I have tried so many things over the years. And I started so young. I picked up my first psychology book at age 13 and started learning about mental health! So sad. All those hours of journaling, self-inquiry, meditation, reading self-help books, talk therapy, trying to alter my beliefs and become more positive thru various spiritual modalities, group therapy, CBT workshops, art therapy, hypnosis, and on and on.... Sure, there were short term benefits, but nothing ever worked in the long run.

This doesn't mean that those things aren't worth doing. I still suffer from a flat down mood on some days as well as negative thoughts and low energy. But I'm not willing to raise my medication dose, and so I must try to use these non-medication therapies to improve my mental state. This is now possible, since I am finally mentally and physically stable due to antidepressant therapy. That is my foundation. You cannot build a house without first laying down a foundation that can support the structures above. I am ready to start building the rest of my house.

I have accepted the fact that I might have to take an antidepressant for the rest of my life. As long as it keeps working without causing me any major side-effects, then I'm ok with that.

May 25, 2016

Thankyou for sharing your journey, it reads like a cautionary tail of cold turkey.

Have you ever tried DBT? With your descriptions of whats going on, DBT could be effective.

All the best.

I cant comment on the med use as lexapro made me suicidal, effexor made me manic and your dosage of benzos/sleepers is much lower than mine was.

Lilu: Depression worsened by meds

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