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Heard any good ones recently?

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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Heard any good ones recently?

 

A nurse practitioner I saw last year said that Wellutrin XL was harmless. She claimed it didn't cause my Tinnitus when even my former psychiatrist agrees it did.

 

Compsports

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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LOL!!

 

Love the title and sub-title of this forum.

To Face My Trials with "The Grace of a Woman Rather Than the Grief of a Child". (quote section by Veronica A. Shoffstall)

 

Be Not Afraid of Growing Slowly. Be Afraid of Only Standing Still.

(Chinese Proverb)

 

I Create and Build Empowerment Within Each Time I Choose to Face A Fear, Sit with it and Ask Myself, "What Do I Need to Learn?"

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I had to see a neurologist after a disturbing event regarding my vision. During the course of my examination, he became alarmed that his tuning fork indicated greatly finer sensitivity in my elbows and knees than in my hands and feet. He was quite alarmed b/c this indicates potential nerve damage.

 

I told him I was C/T'd from klonopin in 2008 and have had diminished feeling/tingling in my left-side extremities ever since.

 

"That is simply NOT a possible explanation," he said.

 

He scheduled me for labs and a return wherein I'd be poked with current-bearing needles. These needles, inserted into my hands, arms, legs and feet, would measure the extent of the neurological damage he expected to find to account for my lack of sensitivity.

 

To his surprise, my nerves reacted with fully appropriate responses. My labs were normal.

 

"Your results are normal," he said. Pause. "This is shockingly unexpected"

 

He thought more tests necessary to uncover a hidden neuropathy. I said I wanted to take a wait-and-see approach.

 

It's been 3 and a half years and I don't feel so well as I once did in my fingers and toes. It doesn't get worse. I continue to get by okay. If you check a benzo withdrawal forum, you'll find thousands just like me.

 

This doc was actually, by peer-comparison, really good. For that reason I hate to throw him under the bus. Nevertheless, he is a neurologist for whom the notion of protracted w/d in response to abrupt d/c of benzodiazepines after thousands of days of use is entirely alien and deserving of offhand rejection.

 

Alex I

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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maybe 10 days after my 11 months taper i was really in hell and bad and i asked my GP if i can take now some St. John's wort in pill to help

 

she tell me < I prefer not, to make you do not become addicted to St. John's wort >

 

as i was informed on internet, i knew she take me for a CXXXX and was lying

i cannot trust them anymore, gp were no help for me, even dangerous to not lose a client

for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

67 years old - 9 years  med free

 

in protracted withdrawal

rigidity standing and walking, dryness gougerot-szoegren, sleep deteriorate,

function as have a lack of nerves, improving have been very little 

 

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Alex -- Ooooh, what an upsetting story. Such closed-mindedness.

1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so...

1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so...

2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so...

Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms

Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended

Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly

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maybe 10 days after my 11 months taper i was really in hell and bad and i asked my GP if i can take now some St. John's wort in pill to help

 

she tell me < I prefer not, to make you do not become addicted to St. John's wort >

 

as i was informed on internet, i knew she take me for a CXXXX and was lying

i cannot trust them anymore, gp were no help for me, even dangerous to not lose a client

 

Stan,

 

I don't know whether to laugh or cry at your story.

 

She is probably the same person who pushed Seqoquel, says the cynical me.

 

CS

Drug cocktail 1995 - 2010
Started taper of Adderall, Wellbutrin XL, Remeron, and Doxepin in 2006
Finished taper on June 10, 2010

Temazepam on a PRN basis approximately twice a month - 2014 to 2016

Beginning in 2017 - Consumption increased to about two times per week

April 2017 - Increased to taking it full time for insomnia

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I would really like to know what CXXXX is. I hope it's a juicy French swear word.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Neuroplastic

In the midst of early double c/t WD, I had to go to a neurologist to get a sick note - I desperately needed it to keep my job (I had no other choice but to work throughout this double c/t Can't Be Described In Any Known To A Human Words Hell). Never before have I met a doctor who would examine me so thoroughly. Yet, despite those tens of questions, god-knows-how-many medical procedures in her office, my naming her the symptoms (anhedonia/akathisia/[here insert tens more]), and effectively showing those (jerks, muscle spasms, trembling, red spots on skin, ad infinitum), and... telling her openly it IS SSRIs WD syndrome, well, she said it was all caused by .... stress. LOL - kind of right - it *was* stress - my body went Majorus Disautonomus after all.

 

What Himalayas of aberration do you have to reach to say this? How iatrogenic absurd is it to not see that something doesn't click here big way? Looks like the system took care of it, too; full-blown in-denial, plus, the only known to her typology was created by the Big Pharma-sponsored system.

 

Hadn't it been for the Internet and my meeting others, I'd consider, probably like this neurologist, my symptoms to be some extreme case of a nocebo effect - the "bad substance" being here the lack of the good one, that is SSRIs.

2000-2008 Paxil for a situational depression

2008 - Paxil c/t

Severe protracted WD syndrome ever since; improving

 

 

“The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once”

Albert Einstein

 

"Add signature to your profile. This way we can help you even better!"

Surviving Antidepressants ;)

 

And, above all, ... keep walking. Just keep walking.

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A neurologist evaluating my AD withdrawal symptoms said...

 

If I pinch myself like this and I can barely feel it and I pinch you the same way and you scream there's a difference of perception.

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A neurologist evaluating my AD withdrawal symptoms said...

 

If I pinch myself like this and I can barely feel it and I pinch you the same way and you scream there's a difference of perception.

 

Ha ha! Hilarious! What a braniac! Ya think?

1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so...

1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so...

2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so...

Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms

Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended

Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly

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  • 3 weeks later...

THe most stupid one is probably the one many of us have been told. And that is the infamous "your symptoms cannt be related to the medicine because it is out of your body after a few weeks". My GP told me so and so did the farmacist who I called moths ago in the idle hope she could confirm the very bad WD from Paxil.

As even a child can understand, any addictive substance causes some kind of dependency and the withdrawal symptoms START when it the daily supply is reduced or cut off. And surely does not end when the last molecule of the med has left your body.

And any addiction specialist will confirm that going cold-turkey off any addicting drug is mostly a bad thing to do, even this is fastest way to "get the drug out of your body". I tried to explain to them that WD symtoms START instead of END when the drug is out of your system or the concentration drops below a certain level. And the violent WD could have been prevented or lessend by removing the drug very slowly out of my system. And this is so logical that I feel like an idiot explaining it to them. But they did not get it (or more likely, just are not interested in my opinion).

And I know that I am not trustworthy in their eyes, being at home for years and a recored of some irrational actions. But in this sense I know I am right. It is so frustrating but I have learned not to fight the system anymore... it is just a useless battle.

10 mg Paxil/Seroxat since 2002
several attempts to quit since 2004
Quit c/t again Oktober 2007, in protracted w/d since then
after 3.5 years slight improvement but still on the road

after 6 years pretty much recovered but still some nasty residual sypmtons
after 8.5 years working again on a 90% base and basically functioning normally again!

 

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And the violent WD could have been prevented or lessend by removing the drug very slowly out of my system.

Yes, i would add something about testimonies: taper slowly is not a guarantee of mild withdrawal, the severity of withdrawal depends more on level doses, years taken and especially nerves which are burned (important nerves give more awful symptoms)

 

And this is so logical that I feel like an idiot explaining it to them. But they did not get it (or more likely, just are not interested in my opinion).

And I know that I am not trustworthy in their eyes, being at home for years and a recored of some irrational actions. But in this sense I know I am right. It is so frustrating but I have learned not to fight the system anymore... it is just a useless battle.

 

yes, you are right, i agree totally and have the same attitude

for anxiety 

12 years paxil - cold turkey 1,5 month - switch celexa 1 year taper; total 13 years on brain meds 

67 years old - 9 years  med free

 

in protracted withdrawal

rigidity standing and walking, dryness gougerot-szoegren, sleep deteriorate,

function as have a lack of nerves, improving have been very little 

 

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THe most stupid one is probably the one many of us have been told. And that is the infamous "your symptoms cannt be related to the medicine because it is out of your body after a few weeks". My GP told me so and so did the farmacist who I called moths ago in the idle hope she could confirm the very bad WD from Paxil.

As even a child can understand, any addictive substance causes some kind of dependency and the withdrawal symptoms START when it the daily supply is reduced or cut off. And surely does not end when the last molecule of the med has left your body.

And any addiction specialist will confirm that going cold-turkey off any addicting drug is mostly a bad thing to do, even this is fastest way to "get the drug out of your body". I tried to explain to them that WD symtoms START instead of END when the drug is out of your system or the concentration drops below a certain level. And the violent WD could have been prevented or lessend by removing the drug very slowly out of my system. And this is so logical that I feel like an idiot explaining it to them. But they did not get it (or more likely, just are not interested in my opinion).

And I know that I am not trustworthy in their eyes, being at home for years and a recored of some irrational actions. But in this sense I know I am right. It is so frustrating but I have learned not to fight the system anymore... it is just a useless battle.

 

Very much agree with EVERYTHING you state Claudius.

 

 

This is what I wish to say to these doctors:

 

 

"If the only knowledge you've obtained, about the drugs you prescribe, is from the pharma reps, that hardly makes you qualified to prescribe, let alone challenge anything I'm presenting to you. IMHO, you are grossly misinformed and thus, renders you unqualified to accurately access the damage caused to your patients. With this knowledge, I understand the reason behind the denial that you exhibit Doc. " :D

 

 

Punar

To Face My Trials with "The Grace of a Woman Rather Than the Grief of a Child". (quote section by Veronica A. Shoffstall)

 

Be Not Afraid of Growing Slowly. Be Afraid of Only Standing Still.

(Chinese Proverb)

 

I Create and Build Empowerment Within Each Time I Choose to Face A Fear, Sit with it and Ask Myself, "What Do I Need to Learn?"

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Neuroplastic

No one will beat this one;

 

... when I was already in a severe poop out, and after having changed the doses and adding more SSRIs (and benzos) into the mix, and being more than 55-60 pounds overweight b/c of Paxil, looking at myself in the mirror and not recognizing myself, I asked my doc *where* it all comes from, and *why* my face looks like a super bloated balloon. She came up with an answer... and the answer *so* absurd, I hardly ever talk about it for the fear of people not believing me. But here it goes;

 

"It's mid-summer, it's b/c of the sun. Your face is swollen b/c of the sun".

 

:super eye-roller:

 

And yes, as far as emotional and psychological symptoms go, there was always some explanation for those, too. Feel you, guys.

2000-2008 Paxil for a situational depression

2008 - Paxil c/t

Severe protracted WD syndrome ever since; improving

 

 

“The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once”

Albert Einstein

 

"Add signature to your profile. This way we can help you even better!"

Surviving Antidepressants ;)

 

And, above all, ... keep walking. Just keep walking.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

 

 

"That is simply NOT a possible explanation," he said.

 

...

This doc was actually, by peer-comparison, really good. For that reason I hate to throw him under the bus. Nevertheless, he is a neurologist for whom the notion of protracted w/d in response to abrupt d/c of benzodiazepines after thousands of days of use is entirely alien and deserving of offhand rejection.

 

Alex I

 

Okay, I will throw him under the bus then.

 

Aren't neurologists supposed to be scientists? To say "that's not a possible explanation" is bad science and bad medicine. Ridiculous. He's an idiot. Maybe a better idiot than his peers, but that's nothing new.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

 

A neurologist evaluating my AD withdrawal symptoms said...

 

If I pinch myself like this and I can barely feel it and I pinch you the same way and you scream there's a difference of perception.

 

Ha ha! Hilarious! What a braniac! Ya think?

 

Seriously. That's exactly what I thought when I read that. LOL!

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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  • Moderator Emeritus

No one will beat this one;

 

... when I was already in a severe poop out, and after having changed the doses and adding more SSRIs (and benzos) into the mix, and being more than 55-60 pounds overweight b/c of Paxil, looking at myself in the mirror and not recognizing myself, I asked my doc *where* it all comes from, and *why* my face looks like a super bloated balloon. She came up with an answer... and the answer *so* absurd, I hardly ever talk about it for the fear of people not believing me. But here it goes;

 

"It's mid-summer, it's b/c of the sun. Your face is swollen b/c of the sun".

 

:super eye-roller:

 

And yes, as far as emotional and psychological symptoms go, there was always some explanation for those, too. Feel you, guys.

 

I love this doc of yours. Where did she get her diploma, out of a bubblegum box? Never mind...unfortunately I know the answer to that...

 

What I don't understand is how medical schools can get away with this kind of bullsh*t "education" where "parroting" is apparently rewarded more highly than actual reasoning.

 

You guys do know that at least two of the authors of the most commonly used psychopharmacology textbook in US medical schools are highly-paid KOLs for Big Pharma, right? So that's the "education" these guys get. Basically what you get from watching TV commercials.

Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. 

Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010.  Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea.

 

Feb 15 2010:  300 mg Neurontin  200 Lamictal   10 Celexa      0.65 Xanax   and 5 mg Ambien 

Feb 10 2014:   62 Lamictal    1.1 Celexa         0.135 Xanax    1.8 Valium

Feb 10 2015:   50 Lamictal      0.875 Celexa    0.11 Xanax      1.5 Valium

Feb 15 2016:   47.5 Lamictal   0.75 Celexa      0.0875 Xanax    1.42 Valium    

2/12/20             12                       0.045               0.007                   1 

 

I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion.

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I love this doc of yours. Where did she get her diploma, out of a bubblegum box?

 

LOL :D

1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so...

1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so...

2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so...

Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms

Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended

Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly

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I will never forget reading a British psychiatrist's opinion on the mind-blowing complexity of prescribing psych meds (paraphrased): "Most of what the average psychiatrist does in their office practice can be learned by the layman over a long weekend."

 

Gotta love those Brits! :lol:

 

PS: I'm leafing through Dan Carlat's UNHINGED and even he admits there is a lot of guesswork involved in prescribing psych meds. He even went so far as to say sometimes it's almost RANDOM because there is no clear winner/loser not just within a class of drug, but even BETWEEN classes of drugs (SSRIs, tricyclics, MAOIs, etc)! Amazing. Just amazing.

 

I think the blurb on the back of ANATOMY OF AN EPIDEMIC puts it best: "One day, we will look back at the way we think about and treat mental illness and wonder if we were all mad."

Been on SSRIs since 1998:

1998-2005: Paxil in varying doses

2005-present: Lexapro.

2006-early '08: Effexor AND Lexapro! Good thing I got off the Effexor rather quickly (within a year).

 

**PSYCHIATRY: TAKE YOUR CHEMICAL IMBALANCE AND CHOKE ON IT!

APA=FUBAR

FDA=SNAFU

NIMH=LMFAO

 

Currently tapering Lexapro ~10% every month:

 

STARTING: 15 mg

11/7/10: 13.5 mg

12/7/10: 12.2 mg

1/6/11: 10.9 mg

2/3/11: 9.8 mg

3/3/11: 8.8 mg

4/1/11: 7.8 mg

4/29/11: 7 mg

5/27/11: 6.4 mg

6/24/11: 5.7 mg

7/22/11: 5 mg

8/18/11: 4.5 mg

9/14/11: 4 mg

10/13/11: 3.6 mg

11/9/11: 3.2 mg

12/7/11: 2.6 mg

1/3/12: 2.1 mg

2/2/12: 1.8 mg

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My father, a Family Physician that owns his own practice, told me once that Ritalin was not addictive!

 

It's METHlyphenadate hcl. It's meth! It's three molecules away from cocaine. The brain can't tell the difference.

I knew tons of kids in high school that snorted it!

It's one of the most abused drugs in Canada.

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  • 3 weeks later...

 

"It's mid-summer, it's b/c of the sun. Your face is swollen b/c of the sun".

 

LOL! Love it!

 

My shrink was, until my disturbing weight loss could no longer be dismissed, convinced ALL of my withdrawal symptoms -- even a TIA that cost me my vision for about 5 minutes -- were due to my subconscious anger at my parents.

 

"Don't you think you have to look at the fact that you were especially angry with your father before your medication change?" - him

 

"Don't you think you have to look at my medication change????" - me

 

Alex.I

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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My shrink was, until my disturbing weight loss could no longer be dismissed, convinced ALL of my withdrawal symptoms -- even a TIA that cost me my vision for about 5 minutes -- were due to my subconscious anger at my parents.

 

Alex.I

It seems that that is what you say when you don't have any other answers. It's classic, unfortunately, and definitely starting to get old. While there is truth to problems starting at a very young age, there is a larger picture that most docs refuse to accept.

 

 

Charter Member 2011

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It seems that that is what you say when you don't have any other answers. It's classic, unfortunately, and definitely starting to get old. While there is truth to problems starting at a very young age, there is a larger picture that most docs refuse to accept.

 

Totally agree, summer.

 

Yes, I would be first to admit I have anger at my parents, especially my father, and that this is something worth examining (at some point). But it's a lousy explanation for my symptoms since discontinuation. Fact of the matter, I've been TO'd at my dad for a very long time and used to be able to drink coffee while being mad at my dad with little effect. Evidently, by my shrink's bizarre reasoning, drinking coffee now makes me SO angry with my dad that I am unable to sleep for 36-60 hrs! Of course in between the different reactions to coffee, I rapidly tapered off effexor and risperdal, the reduction of which corresponded perfectly with my development of hypersensitivity. Perhaps that played a role, huh?

 

I hope someday we (me and doc) can all be adults and realize that it is entirely possible for me to have anger or resentment WHILE also having iatrogenic responses independent of Freudian explanation. He's not there yet but maybe someday!

 

Hope you are doing well today, summer...

 

Alex

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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Altostrata

alex, it sounds like your psychiatrist may have been trained in psychoanalysis, and added drugs later on top of it. Not a good combination -- he reinterprets what you tell him in a very exasperating way, and doesn't know much about the drugs.

 

But they're all like that.....

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I hope someday we (me and doc) can all be adults and realize that it is entirely possible for me to have anger or resentment WHILE also having iatrogenic responses independent of Freudian explanation. He's not there yet but maybe someday!

 

This is exactly it. It's great that you can think this complexly. It's all too easy to fall into either/or thinking. It happens in both directions -- this is all psychological v. this is all neurological. It *is* possible for two or more things to be operating at the same time.

 

I like to add a third "cosmic" reason for why things are happening. And then I look to whichever level of explanation seems most useful in any given moment.

 

There are days when something happens which activates a psychological complex of mine and this seems to account best for my w/d symptom flare up. And then there are days when the on-going process of neurological repair seems like the best way to think about a flare up.

 

And then there are days when I get a sense of how the illness is leading me to where I'm "supposed" to be.

1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so...

1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so...

2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so...

Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms

Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended

Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly

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alex, it sounds like your psychiatrist may have been trained in psychoanalysis, and added drugs later on top of it. Not a good combination -- he reinterprets what you tell him in a very exasperating way, and doesn't know much about the drugs.

 

[Had a long response but am feeling anxious after writing about my doc's history. Even anonymously. Would rather not endure the irrational FEARSTRESS! brought on by the thought he may stumble across and then potential fallout. Mods can delete this post. Sorry.]

 

Alex.i

"Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast
I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past
But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free
I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me.

Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there
Everybody's got to move somewhere
Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow
Things should start to get interesting right about now."

- Zimmerman

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I like to add a third "cosmic" reason for why things are happening. And then I look to whichever level of explanation seems most useful in any given moment.

 

There are days when something happens which activates a psychological complex of mine and this seems to account best for my w/d symptom flare up. And then there are days when the on-going process of neurological repair seems like the best way to think about a flare up.

 

And then there are days when I get a sense of how the illness is leading me to where I'm "supposed" to be.

 

The third cosmic reason why things are happening sounds very Zen to me... I've tried... that feeling of things are the way they are "supposed" to be doesn't last very long. Perhaps a combination of the three things you mentioned??

 

 

Charter Member 2011

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But they're all like that.....

Sur... how about most - not "all". There are a few decent doctors, I want to believe, that are willing to at least listen... and learn.

 

 

Charter Member 2011

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Yes, I would be first to admit I have anger at my parents, especially my father, and that this is something worth examining (at some point). But it's a lousy explanation for my symptoms since discontinuation. Fact of the matter, I've been TO'd at my dad for a very long time and used to be able to drink coffee while being mad at my dad with little effect. Evidently, by my shrink's bizarre reasoning, drinking coffee now makes me SO angry with my dad that I am unable to sleep for 36-60 hrs! Of course in between the different reactions to coffee, I rapidly tapered off effexor and risperdal, the reduction of which corresponded perfectly with my development of hypersensitivity. Perhaps that played a role, huh?

 

I hope someday we (me and doc) can all be adults and realize that it is entirely possible for me to have anger or resentment WHILE also having iatrogenic responses independent of Freudian explanation. He's not there yet but maybe someday!

 

 

 

Really strange... coffee causes you to be angry at your dad and you are unable to sleep because of the anger?? If I am understanding you correctly, that's plain ridiculous! Anyway, that isn't even a Freudian explanation... I want to say lol here, but I won't.

 

 

Charter Member 2011

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I like to add a third "cosmic" reason for why things are happening. And then I look to whichever level of explanation seems most useful in any given moment....

 

And then there are days when I get a sense of how the illness is leading me to where I'm "supposed" to be.

 

The third cosmic reason why things are happening sounds very Zen to me... I've tried... that feeling of things are the way they are "supposed" to be doesn't last very long. Perhaps a combination of the three things you mentioned??

 

Keep trying it on, summer. If it's a new way of thinking -- it is for me, and it sounds like it is for you -- then it takes awhile to get used to it, see how it fits, when it doesn't fit, etc.

 

Not sure if I understood your question....Could I interest you in starting a topic on this question over in Finding Meaning??? :D I'm sure we're not the only two people interested in it!

1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so...

1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so...

2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so...

Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms

Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended

Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly

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Um... yes, if you start it. :)

 

It wasn't a question really - more a thought...

 

 

Charter Member 2011

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  • 3 months later...
brighteningup

Recently I've noticed a marked improvement in how doctors talk with me about my anxiety and depression, particularly amongst those more recently qualified.

 

Alas it has not always been so. In 2006 I I read that CBT was being made available on the NHS for anxiety and depression. I had been looking around for a private counsellor but lived in a rural area and was struggling to find one.

 

So I, possibly rather naively, marched into my GPs surgery and explained I'd had problems with anxiety for years, I felt it was getting worse again, I didn't really want to go on drugs bur understood CBT was now available through the NHS, could he help?

 

He sat back in his chair, did he then gently ask me about my symptons, err no... he says, 'Have you ever thought about killing yourself?'

 

For a moment as I was rather shocked but thought I'd better be honest, so said 'yes I had, but not recently'

 

At which point he said he'd try and get me a referral somewhere, and give him his due, he did manage get me to someone who did offer some help.

 

I've often wondered if I'd answered no to the 'killing yourself' question would I still have been referred on.

Citalopram for 6 months

Since then tapering off over last 4 months

20mg -> 15mg -> 10mg -> 5mg (roughly every 3-4 weeks)

Stayed at 2.5mg for approx 6 weeks

As of 9 Sept 2011 off citalopram

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I've often wondered if I'd answered no to the 'killing yourself' question would I still have been referred on.

 

 

I could bet money you wouldn't have been... that's why people are learning they have to lie to get help sometimes.

 

I was sorry to read about your skin condition and hope you find something that clears it up for good.

 

 

Charter Member 2011

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  • 1 month later...

Okay, well not sure if this qualifies since the person I see is a Physician's asst. and not an actual doctor. I really like her except for the fact that she is clueless about AD WD. She cut off my Paxil supply cause she said my taper was taking too long, so I had to go elsewhere for it. Then today I tell her I am at 7.7mg and having to cut very slow because of the bad WD and she says "Well I can keep reassuring you but you won't listen. Nothing will happen if you quit right now. 7.7mg of Paxil is nothing and is doing nothing." So yeah, file that under Stupid $#*! my "doctor" says. I told her hundreds if not thousands of people on AD WD forums beg to disagree.

 

Also, my counselor told me "I've never seen anyone have WD symptoms while tapering, only when completely off."

 

Sigh.

a.k.a JMarie

Paxil since Mar.1998

2006-2007:40-20mg
2009: 20mg to 14mg 2010: 14mg to 10.5mg 2011: 10.5 to 7.6mg  2012: 7.5 to 6.8mg

2013: 6.7-6.3mg 2014: 6.2mg-5.8mg 2015: 5.7 to 5.15mg 2016: 5.1-4.6mg

1/19/17: 4.5mg 3/17/17: 4.4mg

6/15/17: 4.35mg 8/10/17: 4.3mg

1/29/18: 4.1mg 5/07/18: 4.0mg

7/31/18: 3.9mg

 

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  • Administrator

Definitely counts as TWO stupid $#*! my doctor says!

 

Here's a paper to show them: Potential adverse effects of discontinuing psychotropic drugs: part 2: antidepressant drugs.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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