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Alpha-Stim, Fisher Wallace Sota Biotuner, PoNS, and similar devices

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Altostrata

Thanks for the update, BentBuddha. I hope you'll find the residual symptoms fade in time. Please visit us and let us know how you're doing.

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bruno2016

This one is an obvious scam. It looks like a device for treating TENS. Supposedly, the FDA cleared it for treatment of anxiety and depression.

 

i have one of those. helps with stress and stuff. cant say for sure about depression bc of my withdrawal syndrome. My brother used it and he has never been pn psych drugs and said it made him feel funny. But, i do still use it for stress, anxiety, and mood. Does help me

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Francis

Hi all- My psychiatrist prescribed the Fisher Wallace stimulator for me around 2 weeks ago. I did a search for it on this site and see it mentioned a few times (along with the alpha stim and I think another electrical stimulation device). Ive been using it at around 8pm and then in the middle of the night, around 3am, when I wake up and it seems to help me fall back to sleep.

Im somewhat scared of this machine, though. I can't find the long term effects mentioned anywhere or any mention of what it does to the body's natural ability to regulate neurotransmitters on its own. Is anyone aware of a withdrawal effect from these electric stimulator machines? Im so wary of "quick fixes." I emailed the company this morning, so hopefully I get some sort of response (not holding my breath for something all that helpful though).

 

Thanks for any info you all have!

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bruno2016

I have been using one on and off for about a year. It does seem to help calm me down, but I cant say it ever did much for the depression caused by withdrawal syndrome. I personally feel as though this device is safe. It is a form of energy/electrical medicine and there are many energy type treatments available from acupuncture, to reiki, to zero point energy, to grounding. I personally think I get more benefit from grounding that from the fisher wallace. You should try this grounding thing, its great. You can buy a grounding pad for sleep, or you can go to the park or somewhere in nature , take off your shoes, and walk around on the grass/dirt (no concrete) and lay down if you wish. I feel great when I walk for a few minutes then lay down on my back for about 20 min. It brings a sense of calmness. Another device worth trying is the Bob Beck brain tuner which I read a comparison on and this particular person found it produced better results that the fisher wallace.

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catw66

Hello -

 

I am about ready to give this a rental try out, but wanted to ask if anyone has any experience with this. I did have a Biotuner, which is a less expensive unit and I didn't find it helped with much of anything, but this one is supposed to be better.

 

I'm just wondering if it wouldn't help provide a little stimulation massage for the angry brain trying to withdraw from AD's.

 

Thank you,

Cat

 

http://www.alpha-stim.com/as100/

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Nikki

I don't remember the name of the one I had a few years back.  I purchased it from the therapist I was seeing for EMDR therapy for the WD from Lexapro....

 

It was very good.  It was instant calmness for me.

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catw66

I used to use the Biotuner and didn't think it helped much, but then at some point, my dog chewed the ear clip off of it and I need to get another set of ear clips from the company. I will do that tomorrow and when I get it going again, I'll give it another try and report if it works or not after a few times.

 

I am glad this sort of thing helped you!

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Nikki

I think I paid about $300 for it and that was back in 2007.  It did break in  short time.  Trying to substitute Mindful Meditation for the machine.  It really did help and right away too.  They are more money than that now.

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kels

Hi all, I've been off Prozac for 14months and Trazodone 8months.  I don't feel depressed but still have quite a bit of anxiety and insomnia. I was on meds for over 15 years.  I was doing some research and decided to give the bio-tuner a try. I thought I would log my experiences as it has greatly encouraged me reading others logs.

 

So I started today after work at 6:30 setting 1, it's 7:10pm now and I'm a bit spacy so bear with me. I felt a tingling sensation on my ears even with the tuner turned pretty far down. It was as if I could feel a sensation even in my brain it didn't bother me just  felt funny.  I read somewhere that setting 1 and 4, 3-4 hours before sleep was optimal. I'm already tired and ready for bed I hope I sleep well. The last few months I've relied on over the counter sleep aids because I am determined to not go back to prescriptions if at all possible I sure hope this works :)

 

  

 

 

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kels

Last night my muscles were completely relaxed.  I was rear ended 3 years ago and got whiplash so the chiropractor recommended I become a back sleeper...I've slept on my side my entire life. :unsure: Anyway, try switching to your back when you have insomnia! So, long story short, I've developed a way to be comfortable I have this pillow at my feet to keep the blankets from pushing my feet forward that was really bothering me. UGG

 

Back to the bio-tuner. My husband sometimes snores and he did last night. I woke up but I think I would have woken anyway. I typically wake 4 times a night...

 

So at 12;45 I decided to give myself another session because I wasn't tired enough. I still had to take more melatonin but no gaba. I still woke up a few times but not fully. My husband gets up at 4:15 so the alarm woke me usually he sleeps hard and wakes before the alarm so I usually don't wake up. Looking at this it's no wonder I don't sleep! I am investing in a better set of earplugs today so I can give this bio-tuner a fair chance at keeping me asleep.

 

This morning I feel calm and still a bit tired I would have slept longer but was awoke by my alarm at 7 because I have a dentist appointment.

 

I'd love to get to a place where I go to bed a 10 and wake at 6:30 with no alarm... :D

 

If anyone else has some info or has tried a similar device I would love to hear your experiences.

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kels

Oh Ya the reason I brought up my sleep position is because I was so relaxed last night I didn't stay in my robotic position with my feet and it didn't bother me at all!!!!

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Altostrata

Hello, kels. Are you using this device because sleep has been a problem?

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kels

Hi Altostrata,

 

I have an update for you. First off I guess it takes 3-4 weeks to help with chronic insomnia and anxiety.  I mean to get the most benefit from the boituner. I'm already seeing huge changes and it's only been 3 days. So day 2 (Wednesday) I still didn't sleep great but was much better than before the biotuner. I still woke up and needed to take melatonin in the middle of the night to fall back asleep.  I still had a much more relaxed state of being though and less anxiety upon waking. Yesterday (Thursday) I didn't feel as good was a little tired throughout the day but then again really no different than I always am. I had a break during the day and came home and tried the setting #2 that is supposed to give some energy and calm, I went back to work and did fine (I do hair) so this was a little risky LOL! It didn't give me energy but calmed me down a ton. Then when I got off work at 6:30 I did another session on setting 1 and forced myself to stay awake until 11pm. I slept straight through until 5am and didn't take any melatonin at all. I was able to doze of a here and there until 7am. Today so far I feel fantastic! Full of energy and calm. The only side effect...I did get a headache last night and today but I guess this can happen at the beginning of treatment. It's still worth it even with the headache (that's how bad I felt). So I hoping the headache will go away as my brain adjusts to the treatment. Also I've done 2- 20min sessions each day for 3 days, so maybe that was too much at first for me. Another really cool thing that I noticed is yesterday something happened that would normally leave me in a panic and I was much more calm about the situation.

 

I'm so excited because this is about the only thing that has worked for me!!!

 

Kels

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Altostrata

Interesting. Keep those reports coming, Kels!

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kels

Thursday night I slept great, Friday night I didn't sleep as well but my husband was snoring. Saturday night was ok and Sunday night was great. I find if I do a 20min session in the am setting 2 or 3 (I like 3 better) and do 20 min session an hour before bed. This works good for me. My sleep has been a bit up and down but much better than last wee before the biotuner.  I don't take any gaba, melatonin, or sleeping pills like I was and my sleep is still much improved. So basically I quit all meds and am sleeping better. Can't wait to see what the next 2-3 weeks holds! Hopefully I'll feel 100% back to normal!

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Altostrata

Merged several related topics so we can see all the accumulated wisdom on this things.

 

kels, please start a topic for yourself in the Introductions forum so we can get to know you better.

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Altostrata

That linked to your post of 05 February 2014.
 
Click  on the tiny number in the upper right corner of any post, that will allow you to copy the link to a post.

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NVbar

http://www.macleans.ca/society/health/how-your-brain-heals-itself/

 

Have u seen this? I'm curious whether to this device could have any effect on anxiety/depression/wd symptoms.

 

The article also talk about "reframing" symptoms as an opportunity, and taking advantage of the brain's neuroplasticity to heal yourself.

 

"A small, pocket-sized device, part of which went into the mouth and rested on the tongue and part of which stayed outside—144 electrodes that fired off electric pulses to activate the tongue’s sensory neurons. After two weeks of sessions with it, a voiceless MS patient could sing; a woman immobilized by Parkinson’s could walk; a stroke victim who couldn’t understand a newspaper article could read whatever she wanted.

All this because the tongue, Doidge says, “is the royal road to the brain”—with no dead skin and a moist surface making it an excellent conductor, and rich in sensory preceptors for touch, taste and pain that lead directly to the brain stem. “The PoNS turned out to be a very good stimulator for the whole brain.” Doidge thinks it clears up “noise” in the brain caused by disease or injury. “People tend to think neurons are either dead or alive afterwards, but actually many are firing at an irregular or wrong rate. Incoming information is thus chaotic and noise-filled, with even the healthy cells unable to communicate.” The PoNs, via the tongue’s access to the brain stem and hence the entire brain, can reset the circuitry, allow effective electrical communication and return the brain to a state of equilibrium. That’s why the application is so wide-ranging: with the noise gone, the brain starts working with what it has, in whatever condition it finds itself."

 

 

 

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WiggleIt

I just received Doidge's book in the mail today, "The Brain That Changes Itself."

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WiggleIt

I definitely will! Since my attention span and cognition right now in withdrawal are not as sharp as they used to be, I am sort of skimming information and moving through the book rather quickly without worrying about absorbing every single detail comprehensively, but so far everything in there points to hope, hope, hope. The brain can change, adapt, and learn new skills.

 

It also seems that thinking positively or negatively are skills in and of themselves, so if we think positively, we truly do exercise our brains into healthier thinking for our own healing and withdrawal. So many people and their recovery stories say to let go of the negative thinking, and they are right, and this book kind of helps explain the science behind it.

 

Basically, if we don't use a part of our brain, we may lose that skill, and that includes positive thinking. If we don't exercise positive thinking in our brain, we will lose the skill of positivity.

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peggy

i read the PoNS article and thought it sounded really promising - i thought maybe we could put our TENS machine on our tongues!

 

surely if the results Doidge writes about are factual the implications are incredible

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Petunia

I'm thinking of buying a Sota Bio Tuner, but can't seem to make up my mind.  I've watched videos and read reviews and it seems these things do help some people, but is it just placebo? Do they do anything really?

 

If you have bought one of these devices, are you glad you did, even if it hasn't been a miracle cure?  Or do you wish you hadn't wasted the money?

 

I've read through this whole thread and still can't decide :unsure:

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peggy

Petunia, i bought the biotuner a few years ago and i don't think it did anything at all - i did like the feeling that it gave me - a sort of vibration in my ears that i found quite relaxing, but in terms of any kind of clinical benefit i don't think there was any.  I don't even know where it is at the moment!

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

A reddit with loads of info on tDCS.

 

I ordered this today. Here is a link to everything I ordered (you need a battery, the bottle tells you how to make the saline solution and I got a better headband for keeping the electrodes in place.)

 

A blog with a lot of info and the link is to a recent New Yorker article.

 

I am pretty desperate at this point to break the cycle of the ruminative negative thinking and crushing depression. Maybe the low current will enhance the otherwise slow healing that has already taken place

 

I'll probably post in my thread how it turns out. There do not appear to be many articles about downsides and negative reactions. At the worst, a company in CA providing a USA made and assembled product makes a bit more cash and I can feel good about that.

 

I have to admit that the 48% number in this article kinda suckered me in.... hope I'm in that percentage that gets some benefit.

Edited by brassmonkey
Revised link to artical

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OffEFFexor

I've had a rough time of things the last three weeks, and my doctor prescribed the fisher wallace stimulator.  I think I will give it a try this week.  Read through this thread, and lookie here, cw5600 is here! 

 

Best I can figure is that these devices are extremely unlikely to do harm.  So, lets see.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Never know who you'll run into in the backwaters here.....

 

You'll be doing CES, I'll be doing tDCS. I decided on it because CES is only available by script (I don't want to go to a doctor) or else I have to get one from Canada, I don't buy from Canada anymore. (PITA).

 

We can compare notes.

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Fresh

Hi all ,     I've been looking into CES since reading bloodrush's thread , he had 3 weeks of treatment and feels cured.

 

I've been reading a site www.bulletproofexec.com in the Brainhacking section , and am going with the Oasis Pro CES.   

It ships from California without a doctors script.   I had read that if you get them from health sites like www.stens-biofeedback.com

you don't need a doctor involved.

 

Looking forward to comparing results - I figure it can't hurt   :)

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btdt

I am posting so I can get forwards when you folks add to this thread I want to keep an eye on it in case it is a miracle. :) 

peace

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

 

Oasis Pro CES.    It ships from California without a doctors script.

 

Made in Canada so any repairs have to go back there. I won't deal with Canadian customs again. I paid 3 times what an item cost because I had to return it as it was the wrong one, this was for a cheap extension power cord for a device.

 

From their site:

 

For warranty repair, return to:

 

Mind Alive Inc.

6716 – 75 Street, NW

Edmonton, Alberta Canada

T6E 6T9

 

I have read the bp forum also, but more for the tDCS info. That one seems to be more specific to what I want, to target activation/deactivation (as it were) to a specific area of the brain as opposed to brain-wide changes via entrainment. Be interesting to see how the results differ.

 

Could you please link to the info you found about evading the need for a prescription? From what I have read, the USA is the only place where a script is required because the FDA has classified it as a medical device (you would not need a script in AU). The Sota device (I believe if I remember reading right) can be purchased from them w/o one as they are a Canadian company and scripts are not required and they will ship to USA (I guess it's because of the way they describe their device or something). You have to sign up to gain access to this info on their site.

 

I also found a site where AU people can rent a device for ~$100/mo instead of buying it.

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

Found this on the FW site about a way to circumvent script requirement from your doc for USA (links removed):
 
How do I purchase a device

Before you purchase your device, we must receive your prescription / written authorization from a licensed healthcare practitioner. Practitioners who may authorize a purchase include: General Practitioner, Psychiatrist, Psychologist, Acupuncturist, Chiropractor, Nurse, Physician Assistant, OBGYN, and other health professionals licensed in the state that they practice.There are two options for this:

Use Your Own Practitioner...

Have your practitioner (Primary Doctor, Psychologist, Psychiatrist, OBGYN, Chiropractor, Acupuncturist, Nurse or Physician's Assistant) fax or email this form or a prescription to orders at fisherwallace.com.

...Or Call the Following Practitioner

 

For over-the-phone authorization, you may call the office of Sandy Root, L.Ac, seven days a week: 516.847-5277. Sandy Root is not compensated by Fisher Wallace and charges a $50 fee. If you reach voicemail, please leave a message and your call will be returned.

 

They also rent the devices for $200/mo.

 

I think if the device works (has ANY beneficial effect you determine) we all can safely ignore this bunk on their site for what it does:

 

"Our patented device treats depression, anxiety and insomnia by gently stimulating the brain to produce serotonin and other neurochemicals that regulate mood and sleep."

 

Right?

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cymbaltawithdrawal5600

I am posting so I can get forwards when you folks add to this thread I want to keep an eye on it in case it is a miracle. :)

peace

 

 

I do not think this can be construed in any way shape or form as a miracle.

 

You'll be getting anecdotal reports from pharmacological casualties so ymmv.

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compsports

I wanted to wish everyone good luck with your devices as I hope they provide the relief you are looking for.  I will anxiously look for this thread to see your results.

 

CS

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