Rachelina: in crisis and afraid I'll never get off Paxil

[ladybug]

I can definitely sympathize with your fear of switching to liquid as I have it as well. I do know there were people on PP who could not tolerate it, and I was always terrified I would be one of them considering I had an awful time trying to switch between generics years ago. I also have the same frustrations with my scale!! Sometimes it takes me 20 minutes to weigh out one dose and I'm still at 5.7mg, I can't imagine how frustrating that would be if the dose weighed very little. I think the fact that you are on such a small dose works in your favor. There were many people on PP who ditched at 1.5mg, not that I'm suggesting you do that. I'm just saying that if you did have a problem with the liquid (and though there were some on PP who couldn't tolerate the liquid, there were many more who did just fine with it) then it hopefully wouldn't be as bad as it would be if you were on a higher dose.

 

I'm so sorry the home situation is still so stressful, and I'm very sorry to hear you lost all your info at PP, that's awful! With all that you have to deal with, it's no wonder you are feeling so bad. In WD we are so sensitive to even the tiniest amounts of stress, it's amazing. I think seeing a therapist is a great first step and I'm very proud of you for making that decision. Please let us know how it goes. You need as much support as you can get and we are always here for you.

[Brandy]

  I lost my tapering data when Paxil Progress went down (my signature was the only place I kept it), but I do happen to remember that I was on 2.5 mg this time last year.

 

Rachelina, I'm so sorry for how you're feeling.

 

The most recent PP post of yours I could find cached on Google was from 10-7-14, and your sig on it seemed to go through November 30 (apparently 2013) only, when your dose was listed as 1.5 mg. It doesn't look like your sig was updated since that date til the date of that post.

 

I bookmarked that. (There are other posts cached, but that was the most recent I found on a quick search.) Let me know if you'd like me to post your sig here or send you links, if that would be helpful. I haven't yet checked to see if there are more recent PP posts cached that might have more current dose information in post content, even if sig wasn't updated.)

 

My very, very best to you.

 

Nov 30 - 1.5 mg

[MollyN]

Hi Rachelina, I've just been reading your thread and wanted to encourage you to feel good about what you've achieved drug wise! Doing this all while caring for a little one all by yourself is enormous! Parenthood is a huge challenge even when it's two drug free parents doing it - it's summer here and it makes such a difference to be able to get outside and be in nature etc, it's coming your way soon

[Rachelina]

.  When I was in withdrawal I had a high maintenance and unsympathetic teenager to deal with, and I noticed that when she left for college, even though I had been dreading it for months, I had a marked improvement in my depressive episodes.  Coincidence?  Maybe.  But I really think having quiet time to myself had a lot to do with it. 

I don't think it was a coincidence, Babs! On the rare days when I get to be alone I feel so much better. I'm an introverted person and spending so much time around other people really drains me, especially when there is conflict, which I am terrible at. And your post also resonated with me because some of the people I'm having trouble with are my husband's teenagers. Are teenagers universally abominable, then? I think these are more difficult than most. And just that they no longer go to school or to their mother's house, so there is never any break from them, is stressful in itself. Anyway, thank you for your post, it reminds me that I NEED to arrange more time alone, for my own sanity.

[Rachelina]

Thank you, Ladybug! Yes, withdrawal definitely makes us more sensitive to stress. I will let you know how the therapist works out!

 

I still don't understand what exactly it meant that some people couldn't tolerate liquid. I should probably just stop thinking about it. God, I just hope that when I had that crash the first time I tried liquid, it was because of the generic switch. I did have a crash when switching from Teva to Apotex pills, and I wasn't even tapering then, I'd been holding at 5 mg for about 8 months.

 

Thank you so much for looking up my signature, Brandy! I'm hopeless with computers, so even though people were explaining how to retrieve content on PP, I never figured out how to do it. If you could PM me that link, that would be great! That Nov 30 drop was the last one before PP went down, so I'll have my complete tapering history back now. And is there any way you could look something else up for me? On the General Discussion page there was a sticky thread called something like Tapering Methods, I don't remember exactly. I think it had lots of tips, do's and don'ts for using liquid Paxil. I couldn't find anything like that in the Tapering section here, although maybe I was looking in the wrong place.

 

And thank you so much for your words of encouragement, Molly! I am definitely starved for time in nature...just a few more months now. Might try to get to the ocean soon if we ever get a day that's not freezing cold.

[Rachelina]

Just wanted to post a brief update. I'm doing a lot better. I seem to have adjusted to the liquid. I was already in a wave when I switched, and then it got a lot worse, but I don't know whether it was the liquid that gave me trouble, or my fear of having a reaction to it! Anyway, I have a lot that I'm exited about, and maybe have a little of the hypomania that some of us have talked about. I'm taking a great online course, have joined a book club and committed to doing a weekend retreat with an old friend on an island ten miles off the coast. I still have pretty bad agoraphobia, so the latter two are kind of terrifying.

 

So, I'm dropping to 1.2 mg today. I know it's a few months away, but I'd like to have some plan for tapering below 1 mg. At PP it was recommended to quit at 1 mg, and I think most people were fine with that, but I would like to be more cautious. On the other hand I would rather not keep tapering in .1 mg increments....that would have me tapering for another year. So I'm looking for a middle ground. I was thinking maybe .2 mg increments, every 5 weeks? Any thoughts?

[Altostrata]

Good to hear from you, Rachelina.

 

Given you have had such a very difficult time going off Paxil, why rush at the end and imperil the whole project?

 

If I were you, I'd sneak off in even smaller decrements.

 

I don't know why PaxilProgress might have told people to jump off at 1mg. We have plenty of people here who continue to have difficulty tapering below 1mg.

 

See our topics in the Tapering forum, such as Tapering to zero -- when do you just drop off?

[Rachelina]

Wow, Alto. You were right about that. I'm in a serious crash now at .5 mg. I've been tapering by .1 mg per month for about two years and doing pretty well, but I guess at these smaller doses that got to be too much. I was wondering what the advice here is about updosing. At the other site they told people "go to the last dose where you felt stable." Just thought I would double check that here, since their advice about jumping off at 1 mg turned out to be so phenomenally wrong. I was feeling great at .7 mg, so would that be enough to pull me out of this do you think? 

[Altostrata]

I don't know. Seems like a logical thing to try.

[DLB]

Just a little reassurance Rachelina, I did a 15 month taper off of 10 mg. and below 1 mg. was a hell of a ride. Even at .02 I was feeling it. I took it real slow at that low dose and am about to hit 7 months off and am doing really well now. I feel real bad when I exert myself or when I get sick but otherwise things are slowly returning to baseline. Hang in there, you can do it!

[AmyK]

Hi Rachelina! Couldnt you just go back 0.1 mg? See how it feels?

I am so sorry you feel bad. These tiny doses are cruel. But all this will soon be history. You are very near the end.

What are your symptoms?

Go up a bit and wait it out? You will come out of this soon. You will be fine.

Hugs!

[Rachelina]

Thank you, DLB and Amy. DLB, it really helps to hear that I am not the only one who has had trouble below 1 mg, and that you are doing well now! Amy, I thought I was near the end, I was hoping to be off in the spring, but it's looking now like it's going to take much, much longer than that. My symptoms are nightmarish depression, derealization and panic. It really happened very suddenly; I was doing well all summer and early fall. I updosed to .7 mg because I get the feeling this is really my last two drops hitting me at once. What I've learned from this is that percentage matters. I've been doing 0.1 mg drops for almost two years but the percentage just got to be too high. I'm going to keep it to 10% or less and wait 6 to 8 weeks between drops rather than 4 or 5.  I don't care if it takes years to get off, nothing is worth this level of suffering. Thank you both for your encouragement! 

[AmyK]

I am sorry about how you feel, Rachelina. I hate these drugs.

I, too, thought it would be easier in the lower doses. I guess we just have to keep going. (But I hear you, it would have been so nice to be able to drop in specific doses, and not percentage...especially around the dose you are at... I thought I could do that from here.)

I hope you stabilize quickly!

Let us know how you are.

Hugs!

[Altostrata]

Perhaps we should start telling people to plan a good long hold when they get down to a couple of milligrams.

[AmyK]

I dont know about Rachelina, but I cant do long holds. I have to drop after, at the most, four five weeks. Otherwise I feel worse. But that's me.

[ladybug]

I dont know about Rachelina, but I cant do long holds. I have to drop after, at the most, four five weeks. Otherwise I feel worse. But that's me.

 

I am the same way, Amy! Last time I hit a rough patch I held for six months and while my sleep stabilized, all my other symptoms (especially DR) seemed to get worse. Only when I started dropping again did I see significant improvements. It sucks though as I would LOVE to be one of those people who improve with long holds. At least I know I'm not alone in this, I thought I was until I read your post!

 

Rach, I'm sorry you are feeling so bad. I hope the updose improves things quickly.

[dreamspirit]

My last taper I was doing 1mg drops every 4-6 weeks (mainly every 4) and apparently I didn't hold long enough because I crashed after a year.

Even though I felt great while I was tapering...

Had to reinstate.. will start my taper again after the new year and hold every 4 months.

I'm so sorry your not feeling well. It's definitely no fun.. hope it passes soon for you!

[Rachelina]

Thank you everyone. I just can't believe this is happening. Had a better day yesterday and today was awful again; I had to take .25 Klonopin to get through the day but it barely took the edge off.  Throughout my taper I've had plenty of depression, anxiety and dp/dr but this makes all that look like heaven. It's like no longer being human. This has happened to me three times before while tapering and each time I've panicked and gone all the way up to 10 mg, which is why I've been tapering for eight years! I'm really hoping this time I can stick to the very small updose. I'm afraid that every time I crash and updose, I'm sensitizing my whole nervous system and making it harder to ever get off. 

 

Ladybug how are you?? I keep hoping to see an update from you. I worry that by posting about this crash I'm going to scare my fellow slow-tapering friends. But you are going soooo slow and steady. I realize now that's the way to go. I just thought I was doing so well tapering the way I have been....this year I've felt better than I have in years and even started working a little bit. It was only once a week but it was the first job I've had in nine years, so it felt like a huge step. Now that's out the window, for now at least. I just hope I can pull through this.....I'm so scared. 

[ladybug]

I am doing alright, Rach. I've definitely been pushing myself out of my comfort zone this year. Finally graduated in May, dabbled in online dating (awful) and a week ago I got a job. Similar to you, this is the first job I've had in five years and it's been such huge change. I also may be having to move out and away from my "safe place" and I'm scared all this change is going to trigger a crash or at least a rough patch. Despite going so darn slow I still have issues, both physical and mental. It's incredible really. I've been getting a lot of blood work and some tests done because I don't see how I can feel like this while barely tapering! It's incredible. I also feel a tremendous amount of pressure to "be normal." It's terrifying, but my life has been in pause the past five years (since my mini crash) so at least something's happening.

 

I'm so glad to hear how better you were feeling this year. Yes, you getting out to work was a huge step and you will get there again! You will absolutely pull through this. I definitely wouldn't do a big updose. I remember you regretted a big updose in the past because you wondered if you might have been able to stabilize if you just gave the smaller updose more time. You've done what you can for now, just take it day by day or hour by hour if you need to and know that things WILL get better. They have in the past and they will again.

 

I pray that things stabilize for you soon and you can resume your path to freedom. You are so close and have fought tooth and nail to get here. Just think of yourself as a success story in the making because that is absolutely what you are! ((HUGS))

[MollyN]

Hi Rachelina - you've gotten so low in your dosage now!! I'm so proud of you xxxxxxx I'm also incredibly scared - is it just my fear making me worry that I'll always feel this way?! that some sort of permanent damage has been done? xxxx

[AmyK]

Please dont go up on a higher dose, Rachelina. You will come through this, even if it feels unbearable. Try to use all the tools you have to calm the anxiety. This is wd. It's not you.

Many hugs!

[AmyK]

 

I dont know about Rachelina, but I cant do long holds. I have to drop after, at the most, four five weeks. Otherwise I feel worse. But that's me.

 

 

I am the same way, Amy! Last time I hit a rough patch I held for six months and while my sleep stabilized, all my other symptoms (especially DR) seemed to get worse. Only when I started dropping again did I see significant improvements. It sucks though as I would LOVE to be one of those people who improve with long holds. At least I know I'm not alone in this, I thought I was until I read your

I remember that from PP, Ladybug. You replied to me once about that. I dont mind that I cant hold...I just have to keep going... I kind of look at it as a sign that my body rejects this crap. :-) Take care!

[Rachelina]

Thank you so much everyone! Ladybug, I can't tell you how much your post helped me today. It means everything to have someone who really understands this nightmare behind me and believing in me like that. I'm so glad you are doing well enough to face all those challenges. I would love to hear about the job and dating sometime  

 

Molly are you stabilizing on 6 mg now? That was a pretty small updose for you so if that helped you even somewhat then it gives me encouragement that small updoses do work. I know all too well that fear that how you feel now is how you are always going to feel....we know better but when you are in the middle of a wave of symptoms it's hard to believe it.

 

Amy! I never looked closely at your signature until now. If you think that's crazy, I was only on Paxil for maybe 5 months or so in 2007 before trying to taper. I'm still trying! I did take Paxil for two years 2000-2002, so maybe that complicated things. Still, it's amazing how we both got ourselves into years and years of tapering after only a few months on the stupid drug. It really is crazy that this is even possible. Nice work keeping it to 4%-6% drops....that is my plan from here on out. 

 

Anyway, I had a better day today and didn't need to take any Klonopin.  I still had tons of agitation but it was on a level I could manage. My pattern has been to alternate nightmarish days with just barely tolerable days, so I'm kind of scared about tomorrow. 

[Rachelina]

Awful day today, took .5 mg Klonopin but it barely helped. Prayers, encouragement, advice welcome. I'm so scared. What if it's not enough to go back up to .7 mg even though I was fine there? I remember Songbird saying that when she crashed like this she felt she really needed a large updose to get out of it. I always felt my large updoses were a mistake and suspected I could have gotten better on much smaller ones, but what if I'm wrong? Really panicking here. I have a four year old to take care of and need to be functional and loving for him, whatever it takes. Right now I'm unable to feel love most of the time and that is terrifying me. 

[AmyK]

Try to stay calm, Rachelina. It can take a few days for the updose to work.

You WILL feel better. Try to relax and wait. Cuddle your kid and tell your self that you will be fine.

Many hugs!

[brassmonkey]

Hi Rachelina--  going back to .7mg should be fine, but it is going to take a minimum of four days to start to kick in, probably longer.  Biggest this is, like Amy said, stay calm.  Adding secondary panic and "what ifs" will just slow things down.  Paxil had a bad habit of burying your feelings of love, I had a big problem with this, but the feelings are still there, just vary hard to get at.  If you have to, go through the motions, even if you're not actually feeling it and your son will be fine.  If you beat yourself up over it he'll know something is wrong.  Deep breath, focus on what you have to do and let the WD sort itself out.

 

((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))

[Rachelina]

Thank you Amy and Brass! I am in a hell beyond words and it keeps getting worse. 5 days on .7 mg and no improvement. I know it might take longer but I also might need a bigger updose. It's not worth waiting to see while every second is torture. I'm going to increase to 1 mg today. That's when my drops started getting to be more than 10%. I know you're right about the secondary panic and what ifs - I have tons of that but can't seem to stop. Just so scared I'm going to be stuck in this hell forever. On top of all this my son's birthday party is tomorrow, I can't believe I haven't cancelled it but I didn't want to do that to him. God help me get through it and through all of this. Brass I hope you're right that my son is going to be fine, but I know he can sense that I've become a zombie robot mother. Before this crash, mere weeks ago, my love for him was beyond words, the greatest love possible, and our connection was so close and so beautiful. Now that has disappeared and my heart breaks to think what that must be doing to him. 

 

I don't understand how this is even possible. I feel like i have completely destroyed my nervous system with all the times I've crashed and updosed: 2008, 2009, 2011 and now this. And this one is worse than any of them, worse than when I tapered by 5 mg per month and then quit at 5 mg. I just keep getting more sensitive I guess. At this point I don't care if I ever get off Paxil, I just want my life back. 

[stan]

what is very very bad for CNS is to move dose, down, up, down; to calm CNS there is only the regular dose, i updose a little at end 3 times; looking back it was useless, but at that time it helped my mental with illusion

 

there is something to consider:

 

when begin withdrawal ? after last drop ?

 

no, whithdrawal begins when you decrease your dose, so for me, up dose and downdose is playing a small part in disturbing CNS, even you stay on a dose, you can suffer from the amount of poison you put away from body since last year for example

 

to explain and summerize: we do not begin suffering after 0 mg, we begin suffering during taper , as soon as the CNS,gut etc are in lack of the poison they need to live because you forced the body to live with this poison, so the body adapt his homeostasy (until he no more are able, for example pop-out)

 

so , some people as i, continue to taper the poison, it does not change the suffering we have

i rarely read(maybe never) a long time drugging who do no suffer because he taper hyper slow, soon or later he will suffer, putting a heavy poison drug away will give suffering, i never see the opposite for a people who took many years

 

when we accept the suffering, it goes better

 

how function the suffering ? even stabilize on a dose: what we call waves, pendulum, rubik's cube etc 2 days we feel  " nice"  followed by 6 days bad and we have done no change, only decrease dose since several months

for me you are in classical taper withdrawal, no pain would me surprise

the only road, continue to put the poison out of body and with time the body will try to function without and you will feel better

[Rachelina]

Thank you Stan, always good to hear from you.  I have been having symptoms this whole taper but they were manageable. This is another realm of suffering that makes those normal withdrawal symptoms seem like heaven on earth. And it's clearly because I was tapering too fast, always doing .1 mg drops even when that became much more than 10%. So I feel like I have to go back to where I was before I started making drops that were too big for me. It worked in the past and I have to pray it will work now. 

 

But I totally understand what you are saying about drops being cumulative: we are suffering not just from the last drop but from all the drops we made in the past several years. Every little drop has waves and windows that last for years and sometimes by chance the little waves are going to hit all at the same time and cause a big wave. I don't think that's what's happening here though, it really seems to be the last several drops, too big and too soon, that are doing this to me. 

 

But people who taper hyperslow DO have better quality of life. I am thinking of Rhiannon, of Songbird, I know there are many more. Many people are functioning just fine on a slow taper. I know withdrawal can't be eliminated all together and that is not my goal, but I need to avoid this kind of crash at all costs. It's time to admit I am one of those who have to taper hyperslow.

[AmyK]

Have you updosed to 1 mg yet? Please then stay there and wait it out. I believe you will be just fine, Rachelina. Try not to add second fear. If you felt stable at 1 mg, you will again.

I understand that you feel totally stressed out about the birthday party. But can you prepare some of it today, maybe you feel less stress tomorrow. Dont worry about it to much, a four year old will be happy just to have the friends around. Breathe. This will pass. You will be fine.

After this you can do a very slow taper.

Of course the love for your son is there, just hidden. Those feelings will come back to you.

Thinking of you. Many hugs!

[Rachelina]

Thank you so much Amy. That helps a lot. This morning was awful and I took more Klonopin but I am feeling a lot better right now. Feeling love for my boy and like I can make it through this party tomorrow. I did updose to 1 mg and don't plan on going any higher than that. When I crashed at 4 mg I updosed to 10 mg (a little more than double the dose) and when I crashed at 3 mg I updosed to 5 mg (a little less than double) and both times it worked. Now I am increasing to exactly double the dose I crashed on so I figure it's going to work. I hope that makes sense. And it has been 4 years since my last updose so it's not like I do this all the time, but I really really feel like I need it now. And then when I get stable I will start a 5% taper. You will be one of my tapering role models! Thank you for all your encouragement, it helps so much!

[ladybug]

So glad to hear you are feeling better today! Thinking of you.

[AmyK]

Just glad to help, Rachelina!

Take care now, and enjoy the party tomorrow.

Hugs!

[AmyK]

I hope the party went well, Rachelina. Hugs!

[PatriciaVP]

Rachelina - Hi from a fellow SNOB (Somewhat North Of Boston- Yes, the east coast does extend beyond there)

 

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time, Hon. Been there. Actually just a couple of days ago.

 

I did want to offer this, however. Years ago, when I got on this roller coaster they call "mental health" aka the psych drug express, I had a three year old of my own. Since then she's witnessed meltdowns, days in bed, hospitalizations and even had to bear the brunt of my frustrations. I never struck her, mind you, but until I learned how to redirect it, my screams went in her direction a time or two.

 

Now she is a sophomore at the University of NH with a 3.8 GPA, a technical assistant position and she just finished up a starring role in their fall musical "Big Fish".  We are so close. Even though she is successful and self-sufficient, she still "Mom's Girl". I started to cry when I saw her after the show, and she said "Stop! You'll make me cry!"

 

Anyway, my point is that kids are really resilient little suckers. Just love them the best you can, and they'll be fine. In fact, I sort of think my inability to be a "helicopter mom" like  so many others around me when she was younger paid off. Learning to fend for herself when she was younger, made her the crazy competent person she is now.

 

Hope this helps.

[Rachelina]

Patricia, hearing your story helps SO much. Yes, kids are resilient. I need to remember that. I went to UNH myself, and am so glad to hear that your daughter is doing well there! Thank you so much for sharing that.

 

I'm still in the thick of it, have needed Klonopin every day for a week and am scared about becoming addicted to it (which has happened before when I had a similar withdrawal crash). The past few days I've gotten by on a half or quarter pill rather than a whole .5 mg pill, so maybe that's some improvement. Trying to take as little as possible and still be functional. I've had brief windows of feeling almost normal, mostly in the evening, but then the awfulness is always back in the morning. Praying the updose kicks in soon and that I can stop taking Klonopin before I become dependent on it.