daspin: Some advice please

[daspin]

Hello all. I am a 40 year old husband and father of 2 young children. I have a great life and was never depressed. 9 Weeks ago I suffered a panic attack. For the first 4 weeks I was on Klonopin 3 times per day. The doctor then switched me to Ciprlalex (Lexapro) which I took for 4 weeks at 10MG per day. I was then told to discontinue the Klonopin. I did cold turkey as advised by doctor. I ended up in ER with suicidal thoughts and depression even though I have never been depressed in my life. In the ER, they reinstated my Klonopin and then switched my Cipralex to Pristiq. I honestly believe I never should have been put on an AD in the first place CBT therapy is helping with the anxiety. So here I am, needing off these damn meds to at the very least see where I stand as I was simply medicated immediately after the attack.

 

So after taking the pristiq for one week, I decided to taper it off on Saturday. So I decided Saturday to not take it. Then I took One Sunday. I have taken one since. I plan on taking one tomorrow, which will be 3 days in between doses. I feel "OK".. I seem very emotional though. and foggy head.

 

I just can't bear the thought of being on a long taper after having only been on AD for a total of 5 weeks (4 weeks at 10MG Lexapro, and 1 week 50MG pristiq)

 

So I am looking for advice. I certainly don't want to harm myself or cause any problems. Given I have not been on a long time, do you think my plan is ok?

 

Any advice would be appreciated. The AD numbs me, and makes me a zombie, which reduce the effectiveness of the CBT, so it's imperitive I remove the AD from my system to aid my CBT recovery.

 

Thanks so much in advance!

Edited November 20, 2013 by tezza
Added member name to title

[mammaP]

Hi Daspin, welcome to surviving antidepressants. I moved your topic to the introductions board, this will be your journal

where you can log your progress. 

 

What a time you've had! I'm sorry you have found yourself in this predicament.

I am not experienced with the drugs you have been given but someone will be along

very soon who can help you. 

[tezza]

Hi daspin, welcome to our group! I'm very sorry for what you've endured.

 

So, are you still taking Klonopin?

 

It's usually not a good idea to take an AD on alternate days, that can cause trouble for many people. Did you have any withdrawal symptoms when you left the Lexapro off and started the Pristiq?

 

Since you were on the Lex for four weeks, it seems to me that leaving it off could cause problems, more so than the Pristiq that you were on for a week. Even though you started Pristiq, you were still cold turkeyed off the Lexapro.

 

How are you feeling since leaving the Pristiq?

 

I agree, you shouldn't have been put on an AD.

[daspin]

Hi daspin, welcome to our group! I'm very sorry for what you've endured.So, are you still taking Klonopin?It's usually not a good idea to take an AD on alternate days, that can cause trouble for many people. Did you have any withdrawal symptoms when you left the Lexapro off and started the Pristiq?Since you were on the Lex for four weeks, it seems to me that leaving it off could cause problems, more so than the Pristiq that you were on for a week. Even though you started Pristiq, you were still cold turkeyed off the Lexapro.How are you feeling since leaving the Pristiq?I agree, you shouldn't have been put on an AD.

 

Thanks for the response. Yes, I am taking 1MG per day of Klonopin. 0.5 in the morning, and 0.5 in the evening. I am not ready to stop taking that yet. I have to battle one at a time. The doctors never told me about any other alternatives. An ahtletic, healthy, never depressed man has a panic attack and they medicate me to death and now I have a host of other problems, have not worked out in 9 weeks, am now depressed as a result, up 10 pounds. I never had a chance. But it's the cards I have been dealt and I wasnt informed enough to realize how bad these drugs are. My own fault I suppose.

 

I really didn't have any withdrawal symptoms when swicthing from Lexapro to Pristiq. I did feel like a zombie and was tired and had blurred vision, but I chalked that up to the pristiq. Maybe that was withdrawal? Not sure. I definitely feel some symptoms from being off the pristiq. I am crying alot, and feeling depressed. Again, I have never been depressed a day in my life before the AD. Or maybe it's Lexapro withdrawal that the pristiq was masking? I dont know. I just don't know what I should do. Should I just stay off it all and deal with it if I can? Or can that cause me harm? I am s afraid of these drugs.

[Petunia]

 

An ahtletic, healthy, never depressed man has a panic attack and they medicate me to death and now I have a host of other problems, have not worked out in 9 weeks, am now depressed as a result, up 10 pounds.......

 

.....I definitely feel some symptoms from being off the pristiq. I am crying alot, and feeling depressed. Again, I have never been depressed a day in my life before the AD. Or maybe it's Lexapro withdrawal that the pristiq was masking?.....

 

 

Perhaps your current depression has as much to do with suddenly stopping exercising as anything medication related.  Why did you stop working out?

 

Is your only symptom at the moment depression?

 

I also agree that you never should have been given medication for one panic attack.

 

I think that once you get your healthy lifestyle back on track and with some CBT under your belt, you will feel a lot better, then you could consider a slow, safe taper off the Klonopin.

 

5 Weeks of anti-depressant use is not a long time and most people would recover from that fairly quickly with no lasting effects.

[daspin]

The symptoms I have are depression, Blurred vision, fatigue, trouble concentrating and spells of crying. When I was on the klonopin alone I only experienced fatigue.

 

I am now concerned that the these symptoms are "me", and that now, out of nowhere I am depressed and a crying mess. Perhaps due to the trauma of the last 9 weeks since the panic attack and then anxiety. Or that taking these meds has somehow upset my bodys balance and given me other problems. But what I am REALLY hoping is that this depression etc is from withdrawal.

 

I guess the only way to find out is to stay off it cold turkey which is essentially what I am doing right now I guess. If that;s the case, given how long I was on (5 weeks), am I at risk of anything? And how long should I expect withdrawal symptoms to last, if they are indeed withdrawal symptoms. In other words, when do I cut my losses and realize it's not withdrawal and perhaps accept I may now have other problems?

[tezza]

I don't know much about Pristiq, except that it's terribly difficult to reduce. It does sound like it's too strong for you, making you zombiefied. Lexapro can cause a long, horrible withdrawal and sometimes, only taking for a couple of weeks is enough to cause WD.

 

If I were you, I might try only 1mg of Lexepro and see if you feel any better at all. Some people can tell after taking one tiny dose if that's going to help.

 

You definitely need to keep taking the K for now as it may help cusion the AD WDs and you've obviously been on it long enough to cause WD.

 

CT of any psychotropic med is NOT a good idea. You are experiencing classic WD symptoms, it's not 'just you'.

 

If 1mg of Lexapro makes any difference, you could taper off that very slowly.

 

Pristiq may or may not have masked WD from Lexapro, it's impossible to say for sure. Sometimes WD doesn't show it's ugly face for weeks or even months out. It does sound like Pristiq is strong enough to mask symptoms.

 

If I were you, I'd try the 1mg of Lexapro for four days and re-evaluate symptoms, then. If it's helped but doesn't quite feel like enough you could go up to 1.5 mg. This may be enough to stabilize on. You won't stabilize overnight but you may feel somewhat better.

 

Starting today, keep notes of your symptoms and rate them according to severity. (Give them a numerical rating like 1-5) This is very important in your case since it's impossible to determine what you're getting symptoms from. My guess would be the Lexapro, since you were on it longer.

 

Staggering doses across days can bring on WD for many people, a few can take that route and do ok but other run into trouble.

 

Five weeks is definitely long enough to have problems, long-term, with cold turkey and we don't want that.

[daspin]

I don't know much about Pristiq, except that it's terribly difficult to reduce. It does sound like it's too strong for you, making you zombiefied. Lexapro can cause a long, horrible withdrawal and sometimes, only taking for a couple of weeks is enough to cause WD.If I were you, I might try only 1mg of Lexepro and see if you feel any better at all. Some people can tell after taking one tiny dose if that's going to help.You definitely need to keep taking the K for now as it may help cusion the AD WDs and you've obviously been on it long enough to cause WD.CT of any psychotropic med is NOT a good idea. You are experiencing classic WD symptoms, it's not 'just you'.If 1mg of Lexapro makes any difference, you could taper off that very slowly.Pristiq may or may not have masked WD from Lexapro, it's impossible to say for sure. Sometimes WD doesn't show it's ugly face for weeks or even months out. It does sound like Pristiq is strong enough to mask symptoms.If I were you, I'd try the 1mg of Lexapro for four days and re-evaluate symptoms, then. If it's helped but doesn't quite feel like enough you could go up to 1.5 mg. This may be enough to stabilize on. You won't stabilize overnight but you may feel somewhat better.Starting today, keep notes of your symptoms and rate them according to severity. (Give them a numerical rating like 1-5) This is very important in your case since it's impossible to determine what you're getting symptoms from. My guess would be the Lexapro, since you were on it longer.Staggering doses across days can bring on WD for many people, a few can take that route and do ok but other run into trouble.Five weeks is definitely long enough to have problems, long-term, with cold turkey and we don't want that.

 

Thanks for the advice. It's been almost 2 weeks since I took Lexapro, and I switched becuase it really did nothing for me. But if you think I should reinstate at a low dose I will try that. I just want to be safe and do the right thing here.

 

I have 10MG tablets. How do I make that 1MG?

[tezza]

This link explains how to taper Lexapro:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/406-tips-for-tapering-off-lexapro-escitalopram/

 

This one explains how to make a liquid suspension so you can accurately measure small doses:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2693-how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/

 

I hope it helps, daspin, I do think it's worth trying and do keep notes.

[tezza]

This link may be helpful, also:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/

[daspin]

Thanks so much for the support and information. One last question. If these symptoms are tolerable am I just better riding it out? If so, how long would it usually take to see the WD symptoms gone? My biggest concern is causing myself any permanent damage or other issues from this cold turkey thing.

[tezza]

Since you are experiencing WD symptoms, it's not a good idea to try to ride it out, usually. Some people do recover within a relatively short period of time but some have 'prolonged withdrawal syndrome'. It can last months or even years and there's no way to know in advance so it's a gamble.

[daspin]

thank you! You have been a huge help today. I guess my worry is that these feelings are my panic and anxiety symptoms and not WD symptoms, which would be very dissapointing since I thought I had made such great progress on CBT therapy and have worked SO hard at it. I will see if I can figure out how to make a liquid suspension for 1MG of lexapro tonight and take it. It certainly can't hurt.

[tezza]

You are very welcome!

[tezza]

It will be easiest to mix 10 mg with 10mL of water. The last posted link I left for you is about reinstatement and stabilization.

 

Please keep those notes of your symptoms. When I did that I wrote down what time I took my meds.

 

I'm wishing you well and will say a prayer!

[Nikki]

Sorry this happened to you.  Going to the ER with the symptoms you had is why they put you on Pristq....It is a heavy duty AD and they want to make sure people are going to be okay.

 

You got jerked around with three meds and the cold turkey from Klonopin was a biggy.

 

My thoughts are to stick with your Klonopin to be safe and take away the anxiety.  If you felt lexapro did nothing, by bother.  I am familiar with lexapro.  I took it.

 

pristiq....it is murderous to get off of.  It really is a tough drug to taper from.

 

Why not give yourself some time on the Klonopin and see how you feel after a few weeks.  You may feel better and if you don't, then you can decide on how you would like to proceed.

 

The symptoms I have are depression, Blurred vision, fatigue, trouble concentrating and spells of crying. When I was on the klonopin alone I only experienced fatigue.

 

I am now concerned that the these symptoms are "me", and that now, out of nowhere I am depressed and a crying mess. Perhaps due to the trauma of the last 9 weeks since the panic attack and then anxiety. Or that taking these meds has somehow upset my bodys balance and given me other problems. But what I am REALLY hoping is that this depression etc is from withdrawal.

 

Chances are it is from the trauma of what you have been thru.  They really do produce trauma.....If the K helped stick with it.

I sound like a broken record - but read up on meds before you take another if that is what you decide to do.

 

I hope I do not sound too pushy.  You have been thru an ordeal.  If you can calm down by taking one med, then try that first before introducing something else.  Been down  this road a few times.

[daspin]

It will be easiest to mix 10 mg with 10mL of water. The last posted link I left for you is about reinstatement and stabilization.Please keep those notes of your symptoms. When I did that I wrote down what time I took my meds.I'm wishing you well and will say a prayer!

I have already started taking notes. Taking your advice

[daspin]

Sorry this happened to you.  Going to the ER with the symptoms you had is why they put you on Pristq....It is a heavy duty AD and they want to make sure people are going to be okay.

 

You got jerked around with three meds and the cold turkey from Klonopin was a biggy.

 

My thoughts are to stick with your Klonopin to be safe and take away the anxiety.  If you felt lexapro did nothing, by bother.  I am familiar with lexapro.  I took it.

 

pristiq....it is murderous to get off of.  It really is a tough drug to taper from.

 

Why not give yourself some time on the Klonopin and see how you feel after a few weeks.  You may feel better and if you don't, then you can decide on how you would like to proceed.

 

The symptoms I have are depression, Blurred vision, fatigue, trouble concentrating and spells of crying. When I was on the klonopin alone I only experienced fatigue.

 

I am now concerned that the these symptoms are "me", and that now, out of nowhere I am depressed and a crying mess. Perhaps due to the trauma of the last 9 weeks since the panic attack and then anxiety. Or that taking these meds has somehow upset my bodys balance and given me other problems. But what I am REALLY hoping is that this depression etc is from withdrawal.

 

Chances are it is from the trauma of what you have been thru.  They really do produce trauma.....If the K helped stick with it.

I sound like a broken record - but read up on meds before you take another if that is what you decide to do.

 

I hope I do not sound too pushy.  You have been thru an ordeal.  If you can calm down by taking one med, then try that first before introducing something else.  Been down  this road a few times.

Thanks for the response. That is precisely my plan right now. I need to get off this evil AD, and just stick with the K and CBT right now. I feel that is my best chance for full recovery. In the 9 weeks since this happened, I have also read several books on panic and anxiety and CBT. I have seen promising results in changing the way I react to thoughts, and how it effects my mood and anxiety so I feel it can work. Being put on the cipralex was a poor decision by the doctor. Being told at the same time to discontinue the Klonopin cold turkey is downright stupid! This spiralled me out of control and into the ER, where I was then prescribed a stronger AD. Wonderful. Now it's gotta go, and I need to focus on what works.

 

And no, you were not being pushy at all.

[tezza]

How are you doing, daspin? Thinking of you

[daspin]

Thanks for checking in Tezza! Well, I made the liquid suspension, and had it all ready to take 1mg, sitting in the oral syringe. Then I decided NO! I don't want that poision. Then I thought well maybe I should. Then I thought NO! I hate it! then I thought its probably a good idea to take it.. Ultimately, I didn't and the syringe is still sitting on my counter full from last night...LOL.. I just kept thinking I could hack this out, and I'm glad I did, because I noticed a difference finally today. Not 100%, but my head is more clear, and my vision has cleared up some. My symptom log (as you suggested) has better ratings today for sure.

 

Some of the anxiety related feelings I have I really hope will pass with the withdrawal symptoms as well, but I won't know until all this is out of my system.. But today was better than yesterday! It's definitely tolerable right now, so if it stays like this, I'll continue cold turkey. I can handle this. And today was first day in a week I didnt cry my eyes out. (Well, days not over yet..lol)

[tezza]

I'm glad you feel better! Do bear in mind if it gets worse later, reinstatement is less likely to help the longer you are off the med. I really hope it works for you.

 

Please keep us posted!

 

I wish you well!

 

The daily log will help you to see any changes.

[daspin]

It can get worse later? But it's getting better..I'm confused..lol

[Altostrata]

Waves of withdrawal symptoms are common. If it gets worse overall, you may wish to reinstate a very small amount. The longer you wait, the less likely reinstatement is likely to reduce withdrawal symptoms.

[daspin]

Thanks! I will monitor it day by day. I am logging and rating the symptoms. If I see it get worse, I'll reinstate a small amount.

[daspin]

So last night I was very irritable and aggressive with my family. I feel terrible for that. And today I have been in bed all day crying and depressed. I run my own business so I just didn't go to work. This isn't good at all. Some of the other symptoms have cleared up somewhat like the blurred vision and heavy head but now I am depressed and crying all day. Have a weight on me. Feel like I can't get enough air. Chest tightness and burning in my diaphragm.

 

So. Is this typical WD symptoms? It's been 6 days since I stopped the 1 week doses of pristiq, and over 2 weeks since I stopped taking lexapro. What's going on here? Definitely a downtrend today. For someone that has never felt depression it's concerning. Doctor gives you drugs anxiety and it turns me depressed?

 

Please offer advice and let me know if what I described can be caused by withdrawal.

 

Thanks

[tezza]

These are WD symptoms. Various symptoms may come and go for a long time. I'm sorry you're feeling so bad!

[tezza]

Do you have a monitor to check your BP and HR? Those particular symptoms ( the last line) could also be heart related from what I've heard and read. Not trying to scare you but want you to be safe.

[daspin]

Hearing you tell me that this Heavy depression and crying is WD symptoms makes me feel a bit better. I keep having the "WHAT IF" I am now all of a sudden dealing with depression. I literally spent all day in bed crying. All day. I tried a couple times to shake out of it but couldnt.  I have never done that in my life. In fact, before all this happened to me, I was always known as the Clown, always laughing, smiling and joking around. I am but a shell of my former self, and I spent all day "Mourning" The loss of old Darryl, and resenting and hating this new Darryl. Fun day.. I had 22 various journal and thought checker entries today. A record.

 

I don't have a heart monitor or blood pressure monitor, but it would be a good idea to get that. I am sure it's fine though.

 

Here's the good news. I feel the anxiety and panic that started all this is starting to get under control. Heck, just last night I was laughing and joking with my dad, and raving about CBT therapy and how for the first time since the incident, I felt confident in a full recovery.

 

And then today happens, where it throws all the doubts back in, along with others like "Am I bi-Polar"? Am I OCD? Am I now dealing with clinical depression? Will I ever recover or will my family lose everything" Will me wife tough out this rough road with me?" "Maybe I should leave for a while so not to burden my family" etc etc etc..

 

ALOT of negative today... Not used to this at all. I have read several books on panic disorder and CBT and other therapies since this happened. I see and pay $200 per session 2X per week for a phychologist. I see a counsellor on another day. I am consumed by fixing this. And now we depression on top of this?? That's overwhelming.

 

Anyways, again. I do appreciate you support and care! I am glad I found this place.

 

Darryl

[tezza]

You will experience windows and waves, some describe it as a roller coaster ride. It's normal during WD for this to happen.

 

I'm glad you found us, too!

 

Most of us have, at some time, had a day like you had, today. You are not alone.

[daspin]

Hi  again. So an update. After my terrible Friday where I spent all day in bed, i forced myself on Saturday to get out and force enjoy the day. The morning was tough, but I got up, took my daughter to hockey practice. This was nice as I love to watch her skate. Brings me joy. I still wasnt feeling the best, but I got through it, and then her and I went for lunch. We then met my wife and son and went to the movies. Again, I was forcing fun on myself but it was better than lying in bed all day. After that, we went over to our close firends house and enjoyed a nice evening. My spirits picked up, and I almost felt like my old self again. It rejuvenated me and made me think I was definitely on the right path and that I was over the hump. I almost felt normal again.

 

But then this morning came. It wasnt all bad. I went to watch my daughter play hockey, and then I went to play in my own hockey game.All morning I have been feeling "off", but now I seem to be feeling depersonalization, and depression again. Depression directly about my worry that I will not recover despite all the efforts and work I am doing towards it.

 

Right now I am looking across the room, at my beautiful 9 year old daughter play on her laptop for a bitand my wonderful 7 year old son singing while he plays, and I just feel as though I am not really here. I experienced SEVERE depersonalization during my panic attacks, and this is mild is comparison, but It's very frightening to think this may be the panic showing it's ugly head again. I don't possibly see how I can still be in WD from SSRI. It's been 8 days!! I was only on it for 5 weeks.. This can;t be WD can it? Is depersonalization a possible WD effect? Yes, I do want to blame it all on WD, but at some point, I need to say, hmmm, maybe this is me.. It's been 8 DAYS!

 

My face is also numb today. Here's todays WD Symptom Checker Record

 

Depersonalization: 4 (this ones new today, or its the panic coming back)

Numb Face: 2

Nausea: 6

Blurred vision: 3 (Curiously on in left eye now)

Lack of Concentration: 4

Depression: 2

[mammaP]

Hi Daspin, 8 days are very early days and I would say it's almost definitely withdrawal. 

It will pass, I just wish we could say when. Some people are through withdrawal in a

couple of weeks after a very short time taking them, hopefully you will be one of them.

If not you still have the option of reinstating a little.

It does sound like you are doing great, getting out and about is 

always a good thing. It is awful to have those days when everything is too much and 

your bed is your only friend, but they pass. It is not permanent, or depression, it

is withdrawal and your body is healing. You may have the anxiety again, but there are 

non drug ways of dealing with it that you can explore.

 

I'm glad you had a good day yesterday,hopefully many more will follow. 

[daspin]

Thank you MammaP.. This forum is so supportive without people trying to label me. I tried another forum, and I had people telling me I could be possibly clinically depressed, or OCD, or BiPolar despite never exuding ANY of those symptoms in my 40 years. I had a panic attack, that has developed into a panic disorder. I get depressed about that. All this I acknowledge.. But I really like the support here without the labels. I appreciate it and it's really helping.

 

I definitely want to look into natural ways of dealing with the anxiety. Think I should see a naturopath? Any tips or advice? Yoga? Meditation? i do alot of breathing techniques with the CBT work I am doing daily. Perhaps yoga and meditation could help. What about herbs? or supplements? I suppose I should see someone about this.

 

I am anxious to get this SSRI poison out of my body and then tackle the Klonopin. I wont cold Turkey that though. I have been on it for 10 weeks, and I will taper that one properly.. I take 0.5 in the morning and 0.5 in the evening. I figure I will cut the pills into 4's and reduce my .125 MG per week.. Something like that. Then I can finally see where I stand, as I have not been drug free since the initial severe attack, and I want liberation, for better or worse to at least see what the real Darryl is dealing with!

[mammaP]

We don't advise supplements during withdrawal except maybe omega 3 fish oil and magnesium

which help with withdrawal symptoms. Once the withdrawal is settled then you can think of  tapering

of klonopin and you are right to consider going slowly. 

We have some excellent resources for helping with panic and anxiety without drugs. 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1112-non-drug-techniques-to-cope-with-emotional-symptoms/

 

I personally found this site particularly helpful, the videos are excellent. 

 

 

http://llttf.com/index.php

 

There are a lot of suggestions there, I'm sure you'll find some that might help you.

[Altostrata]

Most supplements are hit and miss and might exacerbate symptoms. See our Symptoms and Self-care forum for suggestions.

[daspin]

Thanks guys. I wasn't really referring to supplements to help with the Withdrawal but rather to deal with anxiety problems after I get these eds gone and If I am still dealing with some anxiety I would like to try some natural ways to deal with it. I am going to go see a Naturopathy doctor.

[tezza]

Daspin, you are experiencing 'windows and waves' pattern of recovery.

 

Getting the medicine out of your body does not stop the symptoms, unfortunately. If that were the case, this forum probably wouldn't exist.

 

These types of drugs make changes in the brain and when it's stopped suddenly, the brain can't reverse the changes quickly enough. That's why we encourage a slow, conservative taper, it allows the brain some time to heal along the way.

 

I hope you feel better, soon!