btdt Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/science/audio/2012/oct/08/science-weekly-podcast-ben-goldacre-bad-pharma This is a link to audio file... with Ben Goldacre author of the book bad science From a science weekly podcast... You can hear a bit of an interview I listened to what there was and want to hear or see the rest... I don't know how to do it. Blame coming late to the computer age party... I would not only like to pass this on but would like if anyone here could tell me how to access the rest of the show. I know it is in the UK but I think they may be way ahead of North America in some respects this is one. so if your a young computer literate person .. How do I get to hear the rest of this? WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 new Ben link worth reading http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/oct/07/ben-goldacre-bad-pharma-interview If there is time for shared decision making, when we're prescribing a new drug, then I think first doctors could maybe say to their patients: "The drug I'm prescribing has only been tested in a few thousand people for less than six months, and it's only been shown to improve blood tests, not the real outcomes in your disease. If you prefer, we also have a tablet that has been around for 10 years, has been taken by millions of people, and that we know has a positive impact on real-world long-term outcomes – which would you prefer?" Because I think these are reasonable issues to factor in, when you're making a treatment decision. Obs: And the point about marketing departments influencing trials? This is a really interesting area and it's a good illustration of how there is good and bad in current marketing practices. I think it's really good that somebody out there listens to what doctors and patients want and need, in order to try to address those needs. There's a scandalously brief and interesting history of research on this question in academia. It was only very recently that people went out and formally asked patients: "What's the most important outcome to you?" The classic study was one in a rheumatology outpatients' clinic – they said: "What kind of trials do you think need to be done?" And the patients said: "We don't think you need any more trials comparing one pill against another, we want trials to tell us if physiotherapy improves outcomes, because doing physio is a massive drag and requires a lot of effort from us." The other thing they said, to everybody's complete astonishment, was: "We don't think that pain is the most important symptom, it's actually stiffness." And that amazed everyone. So good quality, systematic, mixed methods, qualitative and quantitative research, to find out this sort of stuff is really great and important. Well, they're probably doing some and a mix of other stuff. The real problems come when you look at the interplay between market research and the whole process of publication planning, which is something that many doctors and academics are completely unaware of. Certainly, I think, the public have very little knowledge of it. We all like to imagine that the academic literature is composed of worthy papers by independent academics exploring things on the basis of interest. We don't, for the most part, realise that there is often a hidden hand guiding this process. So when a new drug is being brought to market, especially one that addresses a problem that hasn't been addressed before, you will often get an elaborate sequence of covertly planned marketing activity in the academic literature, without any declaration that this is what's happening. For example, companies will set about paying for and planning, and in some cases ghostwriting, papers saying that the disease their new drug treats is an underdiagnosed problem, it's much more prevalent than we thought. You might also start to produce lots of literature about how current interventions aren't very good, downplay your own side effects, promote off-label uses of your drug, and so on. That's all before you get anywhere stage-managing the literature about the actual benefits of your treatments. So the interplay between marketing departments and research departments, I think, is inevitable. It's a mixture of good and bad, but the thing that's most striking is how ignorant most people are about these things, and how huffy and upset drug companies get when you start to talk about it. If people really think it's OK to have commercial medical writers writing papers instead of academics, then they should put their names clearly and proudly at the top of the papers. If people really think it's OK to stage-manage the whole programme of academic journal articles behind the scenes up to the launch of your drug, they should just mention that in the papers at the bottom: "This is part of the programme leading up to the launching of drug X. The idea for this paper came from the marketing department at Y." If they think all this activity is OK, then that's fine: they should be happy to declare that publicly, and we can decide for ourselves. much more at the link http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/oct/07/ben-goldacre-bad-pharma-interview So far what he says makes sense to me... WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 I work for an institutional shareholder of many large pharmaceutical companies. Do you think there are any pharmaceutical companies that stand out in terms of transparency of trial results? And at the other end of the scale, are there any companies that consistently fail to publish negative trials? Laura Foll, analyst, Henderson Global Investors No. I have no reason to believe that any one is any better than the other. If you have bad regulations, incoherently enforced, then everybody does what they have to do, to succeed in the marketplace. Same link... could not resist this small one.. above. So in how to fix this is CORRECT BAD REGULATIONS! ENFORCEMENT! It will take more than this I feel but it would be a good start. I am going to have to buy this book as well as others by Grace Jackson's tho I have to admit I could not get my head around the Grace Jackson book... getting too old to do this well maybe I hope some younger brighter people take this up. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btdt Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 this one made me growl.... grrrr Obs: We had quite a few questions from readers who, faced with difficult decisions about changing drugs or trying a new drug, were reading trials and studies themselves… That's a real mistake, actually. As I say in the book, I don't think it's a good idea for individuals to try to pick and choose their drugs, or stop their drugs. I think it's a very dangerous business. I don't say that because I want to protect any special status in the medical profession, I just think it takes a really long time to acquire the skills and knowledge to do that. People often say: "What do I do for me? For my treatment decision right here and now?" And the best advice I can ever give is to find a good doctor and talk to them about it, and anybody who tells you that they can give good advice about your medical problems in a newspaper article, or on the internet, or in some silly magazine, should be regarded with infinite suspicion, no matter how big a bouffant or how deep a perma-tan they have – I'm not thinking of anyone in particular, I don't really know that scene. I don't do readers' health advice and I think these things are best discussed with your doctor. I wonder what he knows of us? If anything. WARNING THIS WILL BE LONG Had a car accident in 85 Codeine was the pain med when I was release from hosp continuous use till 89 Given PROZAC by a specialist to help with nerve pain in my leg 89-90 not sure which year Was not told a thing about it being a psych med thought it was a pain killer no info about psych side effects I went nuts had hallucinations. As I had a head injury and was diagnosed with a concussion in 85 I was sent to a head injury clinic in 1990 five years after the accident. I don't think they knew I had been on prozac I did not think it a big deal and never did finish the bottle of pills. I had tests of course lots of them. Was put into a pain clinic and given amitriptyline which stopped the withdrawal but had many side effects. But I could sleep something I had not done in a very long time the pain lessened. My mother got cancer in 94 they switched my meds to Zoloft to help deal with this pressure as I was her main care giver she died in 96. I stopped zoloft in 96 had withdrawal was put on paxil went nutty quit it ct put on resperidol quit it ct had withdrawal was put on Effexor... 2years later celexa was added 20mg then increased to 40mg huge personality change went wild. Did too fast taper off Celexa 05 as I felt unwell for a long time prior... quit Effexor 150mg ct 07 found ****** 8 months into withdrawal learned some things was banned from there in 08 have kept learning since. there is really not enough room here to put my history but I have a lot of opinions about a lot of things especially any of the drugs mentioned above. One thing I would like to add here is this tidbit ALL OPIATES INCREASE SEROTONIN it is not a huge jump to being in chronic pain to being put on an ssri/snri and opiates will affect your antidepressants and your thinking. As I do not update much I will put my quit date Nov. 17 2007 I quit Effexor cold turkey. http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1096-introducing-myself-btdt/ There is a crack in everything ..That's how the light gets in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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