Momofcmt - My introduction

[momofcmt]

I'm in my second week of being AD free and looking for support for withdrawal symptoms. I began Effexor is 1997 after a bout of depression. Other than for my three pregnancies in 2001 2004 and 2008, which I switched to Zoloft, remained on Effexor (150mg) up until just recently. I also had a prescription for Klonapin which I took over the years as needed. I asked my doctor just this past April to prescribe something different because I thought maybe other drug would be better than Effexor. She prescribed Viibryd. I had horrible side effects and, after a month or so of frustration with Viibryd, I asked to be taken off all meds to see how I would do. I have been off all meds now since 5.2.14. I joined this site in hopes,of receiving some support and suggestions on how to deal with withdrawals symptoms. I have major mood swings; I go from crying my eyes out to being extremely angry. I also have some GI issues as well as hot flashes and night sweats. I'm 44 and currently in perimenopause, which I realize could be contributing to my symptoms. I'm miserable and looking for some advice.

[dalsaan]

Hi

 

Welcome to SA. Sorry to hear things have been difficult. However, it's not surprising given you have gone cold turkey off Effexor. Cold turkey is extremely harsh on your nervous system particularly given you have been on medication for a long time.

 

If it was me, I would reinstate the Effexor and then develop a plan to taper off it very slowly

 

Here are some links on tapering off Effexor, reinstatement and our 10 percent guideline:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/272-tips-for-tapering-off-effexor-and-effexor-xr-venlafaxine/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/3079-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1024-why-taper-by-10-of-my-dosage/

 

Also, it would be great if you could put your drug history in your signature. Here's how to do that

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Do you have any other withdrawal symptoms? How have they changed since you stopped taking your meds?

 

Final question-were you taking regular Effexor or extended release? This will determine the options open to you for reinstatement and tapering.

 

Lots of people here have been where you are. You'll find this site informative and supportive.

 

Dalsaan

[momofcmt]

Sorry for the lack of signature. Also didn't mean to mislead. I was on Effexor XR. I asked doctor to switch med to something that would be better than Effexor XR - felt sort of flat. Dr switched me to Viibryd (starter pack-continued Effexor during first week of Viibryd). Horrible side effects on Viibryd. After talking with husband and dr, decided I wanted to go off all AD meds. Tapered down on Effexor XR while tapering up on Prozac. Then tapered down on Prozac. No meds since June 2. Now in second week and feeling miserable.

[dalsaan]

Hi,

 

Thanks for updating your signature and setting me straight on the prozac bridge.   I have a couple more questions about your experience with Viibryd, your crossover to Prozac and your current experience:

 

1.  What were the side effects on Viibryd?  were they similar or different to what you are experiencing now? (Part of the difficulty of being on three drugs in such a short period of time is that it can be difficult to distinguish withdrawal effects from the previous drug from adverse reactions to the new one - thats why I'm trying to get clarity on what happened when)

 

 

2.  How long was the cross over period when you were tapering down effexor and updosing prozac?

 

3.  How did you taper off prozac - how much did you drop by and how often?  Did you have any adverse effects during this time?

 

 

4.  When did your current side effects start? Before you stopped meds all together?   If they came after you stopped all together, how long after?  Are they getting worse, staying the same or getting better with time?

 

I'm sorry if I sound intrusive.  We are more than happy to support but need to have a very clear picture of what's gone on and as I say, it can be complex with a lot of changes in a short period of time.  

 

Dalsaan 

[momofcmt]

1.  I was taking Effexor XR 150mg once daily for years.  When dr switched me to Viibryd, I continued taking Effexor XR 150mg during the first week of the start pack 10mg.  I then went off Effexor in the second week of the starter pack 20mg.  I went up to 40mg in the third week.  After three days at 40mg, I began cutting them in half because the side effects were driving my nuts.  Horrible insomnia, ravenously hungry and crying spells.  Dr told me to continue at 20mg but to supplement with Klonopin .5mg.  

 

2.  I revisited dr on May 27, 2014.  She suggested I go on to Prozac, starting at 10mg the first week (along with the Viibryd) and then 20mg the second week (quitting the Viibryd).  I started Prozac at 5mg the first week, along with Viibryd, and then never went to 10mg...I just stopped. 

 

3.  In all, just a month and yes, three different meds.  I don't know that I can distinguish between side effects and withdrawal symptoms.  Viibryd was not a good med for me at all, but it could very well have been withdrawal from Effexor too causing my symptoms.

 

4.  There is no doubt I probably went off meds too fast.  The insomnia came after I quit Effexor and started Viibryd.  It has gotten much better since being off altogether.  The crying spells started when I went off the Effexor and have improved but not stopped since being off meds.  It's the anger and short-temper that I worry about - it started almost the day I quit all meds.  

 

I found the "Road-Back" program when I was searching for support.  I ordered the suggest supplements. I started taking them a week ago and they seem to have helped - Omega, and Vitamin E.  My mornings go ok.  I get very irritable in the late afternoon and then can't wait to go to bed just so I can end my day.  I know this site suggests a slower taper and perhaps that's what I need to do, but I'm very leary about going back on anything... not to mention I don't have a dr right now who can walk me through it.    I have another dr visit scheduled on July 11.  I also scheduled an appointment with a psychiatrist on June 30.  I want so badly to be "clean" of all these meds.  

  

[Rhiannon]

I'm still not clear--it sounds like you went from Effexor, to the failed transition to Viibryd, then you went straight to Prozac from the Viibryd and didn't take any more Effexor. Is that correct?

 

The most Prozac you took was 5 mg and then you just quit from that, correct?

 

When did you quit taking Effexor? When was your last Effexor? From there, you went to Viibryd, for how long? And then finally, for how long did you take the Prozac 5 mg, before quitting?

 

I would highly recommend reinstating on either Prozac or Effexor at a low dose.  You took Effexor for many, many years, and your brain remodeled itself around the new artificial chemistry that Effexor induced, like a plant growing around a trellis. If you just yank out the trellis from a plant, the plant doesn't do so well. If you just tear off a cast from a broken bone, or yank a crutch away from someone, the result is not good.

 

What we teach here is how to snip away the trellis gradually while the plant rebuilds its original structure. Then you can remove the last bits of the trellis and the plant might wobble a bit but it's going to be okay.

 

Think about it. A CT after many decades--I have never, in many years of doing this kind of work, seen that succeed.

[dalsaan]

So my understanding is this all happened during May/start of June

 

1st week. Effexor and Viibryd

2nd and 3rd weeks. Various dosages of Viibryd

4th week. Viibryd and Prozac 5mg (7days)

2nd June Off everything

 

If that's reasonably accurate I am very worried for you. Effectively you have really shaken up your nervous system going from one med to another and then cold turkeying

 

Everyone here understands the burning desire to be off these drugs but you need to do it in a way that minimises withdrawal and gives your system a chance to go the journey with you.

 

Effexor is punishing when it comes to withdrawal due to its short half life. I would say that it's quite likely you were experiencing withdrawal and perhaps some adverse reaction to Viibryd

 

I'm not sure which one I would reinstate. I will seek some advice

 

D

[Rhiannon]

Hey, just want you to know, I'm worried about you too. Not in a "there's no hope" way but in a "gee I hope she listens to us because things can get way worse than this, and I've never seen a CT go well after more than even a few years' use, let alone almost 20."

 

I think probably you'd do best reinstating on a low dose of Effexor, something like maybe 25 mg, and see if your symptoms improve a bit. If so, that's good news. It's a low enough dose to minimize bad drug effects and side effects, while still enough to cushion the worst of the withdrawal process. It's possible even a smaller dose, 10 or 15 or so, would work. You don't want to go over 50 mg I suspect, because your CNS is probably sensitized and pretty destabilized right now. 

 

But hopefully Alto will drop by and say what she thinks about the reinstatement part. I'm not as much an expert on that as I am on the rest of it--like, what kind of outcome someone with your history can expect, and what your best chance is for getting through this with the least damage to your life and your soul. 

 

Start with reinstating at whatever level seems best, then just take your meds exactly the same time every day, and keep your stress levels down, and take good care of yourself, and give yourself some time to stabilize. It will probably take a few months. Once you're stable you can then taper slowly off that last piece. You'll have plenty of time to learn how to do that--we have lots of experience with that.

 

Welcome. I hope you will do well.

[Rhiannon]

Oh, and get your hands on a copy of Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker. And check out the website "cepuk.org".

 

Good luck to you!

[bubble]

Hello Momo,

 

i'm writing just to emphasise what Dalsaan and Rhi wrote because I know that people (myself included) find it very hard to listen to this advice:reinstate. We are all so happy to be "free" of these drugs and believe we just have to clench our teeth a while longer and things will start improving.

 

I did the same and even managed to do so for 45 days. But as Rhi so beautifully described, these drugs cause even more damage when they are abruptly taken away and things go from bad to worse as the time goes by, they don't lessen as we'd think. They have become a part of the foundation of our CNS,its building block and if you were to remove pieces from the foundation of a house it probably wouldn't collapse immediately. It would resist for a while emitting strange sounds just like your CNS is doing now. I saw that you put an emphasis on the things which have improved but that irritability was the chief sign in my case that things were not good. When you think about it, it's only natural: your CNS is very unhappy about what has happened,it's putting in an enormous fight but you have to help it. We all took that course of buying loads of supplements but this can't stop the process (some can even make things worse).

 

The longer you wait to reinstate,the longer it will take to stabilise and start coming off in a safe way.

 

I'm also not an expert on the amount to reinstate. After all the blows your CNS took in the last month, it's hard to tell what would work best. But until our main expert Alto comes, I would agree with Rhi: definitely Effexor because it's become a building block of your CNS for so many years. I would try the dose Rhi indicates.

 

If you decide to listen to us, you will probably want to know how to get to that dose because pharma never prepared us for tapering their drugs. I believe you were already given a link with advice on how to taper Effexor with techniques of how to make the right dose from pills we have available.

 

Best of luck,

bubble

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Momofcmt.

 

I echo the concerns expressed above about such an abrupt exit from 15+ years of antidepressants. You would be very lucky indeed if you were one of those people who could just quit and not feel the withdrawal.

 

A reinstatement of either a very small amount of Effexor, such as 10mg, or Prozac, such as 2mg, might reduce withdrawal symptoms. But you must take either very regularly over an extended period of time, at least a month anyway, before considering reducing again.

[momofcmt]

I hear you all and thank you for the advice. I started back on Prozac yesterday 10mg 1x/day. As I mentioned, I have a psych appt scheduled later this month and will reevaluate at that time and ask doctor to taper off Prozac. I've come this far without Effexor and am very very reluctant to go back to it. It's an evil drug-I am now convinced of it more than ever before. I just hope my withdrawal symptoms improve and that I'm able to go completely go off meds. Again, I appreciate your feedback. You are lifesavers...

[dalsaan]

Momofcmt

 

That dose is higher than you've been on, you may have a negative reaction to it. I hear you on Effexor, it is evil. Would you consider taking 2.5 mg of Prozac and seeing how you go? This dose minimises a reaction to the higher dose, may be enough to address withdrawal now and will be less to taper off later.

 

Also be prepared that your psych doc may not know a lot about withdrawal or understand the need to taper very slowly. The reality is that antidepressant companies do not invest research $$$ on how to get people off their product. This means there are very few studies and not much literature.

 

I suspect we would see more examples/stories of withdrawal in a month than many professionals see over a year (or in some cases a lifetime)

 

I respect your right/capacity to make your own decisions but having read hundreds of stories on withdrawal I am still concerned for you.

 

Here is a link to a withdrawal checklist written by a Dr who knows this stuff. You may find it useful to monitor and record what's happening for you

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

 

Please let us know what you decide on the Prozac dose and how you are getting on

 

Take care

 

Dalsaan

[btdt]

I have a question. 

I was wondering why if you had taken zoloft in the past without incident why not go to zoloft rather than a new drug.  I am assuming it did not work well for you and that is why you went back on effexor after each child was born.  I don't understand the reasoning behind that switch either why go to zoloft when you expecting?

 

Are you still taking the supplements from the road back?

[Petunia]

Hi Momo,

I'm happy to hear that you have reinstated Prozac, although like others, I think it might have been better to try a lower dose.  Do stay in touch and let us know how you are doing.

 

Petu.

[Rhiannon]

Yes, please keep us posted, I'd like to hear how it goes. 

 

We learn from working with people, so if you don't mind keeping us updated, it will help us to help other people too.

[momofcmt]

I reinstated with Prozac mg.  I took for two days.  Crying spells much better even after just a short time.  I read your comments and cut back to 5mg (half of the pill).  I'm doing ok...this is day 2. 

 

Effexor is not advised during pregnancy - it's a category C - so my OB at the time switched me to Zoloft.  After my first pregnancy, I felt myself slipping into depression.  At my request, my OB switched me back to Effexor.  I didn't even mess around after the second and third pregnancy; I switched back to Effexor shortly after delivery.  Not sure why my current dr didn't put my on Zoloft.  It was not even discussed.

 

Yes, I am still taking the Road Back supplements.  I don't know if they've helped with my withdrawal symptoms, but I figure they can't hurt.  

 

Thanks again for the input!

[Altostrata]

Very good to hear.

 

The supplements may not be doing you any harm, except in the wallet.

[momofcmt]

Major headache tonight. Is this a result of reinstating Prozac?

[dalsaan]

It's possible.  Headaches are a side effect of Prozac but it is also possible that something else has caused it.  Its a lot easier to link effects to drugs when there is a pattern rather than something that could be a one off.   

 

Have you had enough water?   I would have a couple of large glasses to make sure its not dehydration and keep an eye on what happens over time

 

D

[Altostrata]

Please keep notes of your daily symptoms on paper to see if there's any pattern.

[momofcmt]

It's been another (long) week since I've checked in.  I am still taking 5mg of Prozac and things have gotten better. I am sleeping much better and the hot flashes have gone away.  However, I am still struggling with being foggy (can't concentrate), achy joints, dry mouth, intermittent crying (some days better than others) and bouts of irritability.   I keep hoping my symptoms will continue to improve, but I have this horrible feeling that the only way I'm going to feel "normal" is with meds.  I have a couple of friends who have "made peace" with their meds and are trying to convince me to just go back on them.  I so badly want to be clean and to figure out whether I can handle stressors in my life without turning to meds.  But...I also don't know how long I can tolerate feeling this way.  I just want to feel good again.        

[Rhiannon]

What you're describing are classic symptoms of withdrawal and the kind of nervous system instability that we talk about which seems to happen when people switch meds and doses around. It can take a while, months even, to stabilize, but people eventually do. If you want to get off meds or minimize them, the path is to stay on the current dose and ride out the withdrawal symptoms until you stabilize.

 

Every time you change meds or dosages, it takes longer to stabilize.

 

It's up to you if you want to spend your life on psych meds. I would suggest before making such a serious decision that you read Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker and check out the website "cepuk.org." These are powerful drugs with many side effects and the long-term outcomes do not appear to be very good.  

 

I personally would give my right hand for the chance to go back and undo the decision to take Prozac initially; for me, the drugs ruined my judgment, my ability to experience emotions, my ability to mother my children the way they deserved, and eventually my ability to function or live a normal life. I wish my experience were rare or extreme but I have met hundreds of people who had the same kind of long term outcome, or worse.

 

I regret most bitterly the way I hurt my children, who are now adults. Their lives will never recover from having a mother who deteriorated the way I did during the years they needed me to be there for them.

 

I'm not saying don't do it--of course it's your choice--just: don't do it casually or lightly or just because you're feeling bad right now. Take this decision as seriously as you would any other life-altering decision.

[Altostrata]

Your friends probably also attempted to go off their drugs and ran into the wall of withdrawal syndrome.

 

Very frequently in these situations, people or their doctors are convinced this is evidence they "need" the drugs for life. Consequently, there are many people taking psychiatric drugs for years who don't have any psychiatric reason for taking them.

 

It is possible to go off the drugs, but you have to do it slowly and systematically at a rate your nervous system can tolerate. This is true for your friends, too.

[Petunia]

 I am still taking 5mg of Prozac and things have gotten better. I am sleeping much better and the hot flashes have gone away. ......  I keep hoping my symptoms will continue to improve.....

 

...and they will. 

[momofcmt]

You all give me hope and help me push through. I hope I will be able to pay it forward to someone else down the road. Thank you!

[Altostrata]

You can pay it forward by posting your success story here when you are finally through with this!

[btdt]

I reinstated with Prozac mg.  I took for two days.  Crying spells much better even after just a short time.  I read your comments and cut back to 5mg (half of the pill).  I'm doing ok...this is day 2. 

 

Effexor is not advised during pregnancy - it's a category C - so my OB at the time switched me to Zoloft.  After my first pregnancy, I felt myself slipping into depression.  At my request, my OB switched me back to Effexor.  I didn't even mess around after the second and third pregnancy; I switched back to Effexor shortly after delivery.  Not sure why my current dr didn't put my on Zoloft.  It was not even discussed.

 

Yes, I am still taking the Road Back supplements.  I don't know if they've helped with my withdrawal symptoms, but I figure they can't hurt.  

 

Thanks again for the input!

They are both schedule C drugs zoloft and effexor I just looked it up I thought they were the same and looked because I wanted to not give wrong advice to anyone. 

Includes Zoloft side effects, interactions and indications. ... FDA pregnancy categoryC. Taking an SSRI antidepressant during pregnancy may cause serious .

Effexor (venlafaxine) is an antidepressant in a group of drugs called selective serotonin and ... FDA pregnancy category C. Taking an SSRI antidepressant during pregnancy 

 

I wonder what your doctor knows that google doesn't. 

[momofcmt]

It's been about six weeks since my last post. I'm still taking .5mg Prozac. I saw a psychiatrist about a month ago. She suggested I stay on Prozac for six months before I try going off. She understood my desire to be AD free, but really didn't offer much advice on how to deal with WD symptoms. I think I'm doing okay. I've dealt with some serious family issues the past few weeks and seem to be handling things without additional meds. I do continue to struggle with irritability and fatigue. I can be very short with my husband and kids, but really don't know why. I then feel terribly guilty. I so badly want to be off AD, but I'm very impatient with the withdrawal symptoms and now knowing whether I will ever feel "normal" again. Any advice?

[Petunia]

Thank you for updating momo, it sounds like you are doing really well.  I'm glad the Prozac is working for you.  The irritability and fatigue could be a side effect of the Prozac or because you haven't yet stabilized fully on it.  If I were you, I would give it a few more weeks and see how you are feeling.

 

When you do feel ready to start tapering, you have our 10% reduction guide to follow, here is the link for Prozac:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/759-tips-for-tapering-off-prozac-fluoxetine/

 

Its not surprising that your psychiatrist can't offer any help for withdrawal symptoms because most of them don't believe withdrawal even exists.  But that's what we are here for.  Our whole symptoms and self care section is full of ideas and information about  managing withdrawal via non-drug methods.

 

Its important to develop patience because its by slowing down and tapering off slowly and carefully that there is a greater chance of successfully becoming antidepressant free and getting back to 'normal'.