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Auto immune diseases triggered by SSRI Withdrawal

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btdt

i developed a frozen shoulder whilst tapering 2 years ago - ended up taking oral steroids for 3 weeks which kick started the recovery.

 

i also have a low positive cardiolipin antigen reading - they are the antibodies for antiphospholipid syndrome (or something like that).  That is also considered an autoimmune disorder.  

I had a frozen shoulder too did not relate it to this at the time... seems I never do. 

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btdt

Has anyone had a positive ANA then a neg after wd recovery?

overcomer58 in post 11 above has 

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DLB

I've been wondering about the mitochondrial damage as well but generally we feel good on the meds.and that is when the damage would occur. Generally we feel like crap when the med is gone so I think/ hope there Is no damage and it is just withdrawal.

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btdt

I've been wondering about the mitochondrial damage as well but generally we feel good on the meds.and that is when the damage would occur. Generally we feel like crap when the med is gone so I think/ hope there Is no damage and it is just withdrawal.

I can't be sure that rules it out.  For sure some people like me had a severe reaction to one drug or another AD for me it was prozac the first ad I ever took... 

then the reaction lasted literally years... during which time I got the dx of chronic fatigue.  I was so sick after two wks of prozac I would have taken anything to cure it ... the cure was worse than the pain in my leg we were trying to treat 1000xs worse.  I was not crazy before prozac but on it I  hallucinated and acted on the hallucination and many other bad things...   I am not saying it happens to every one it doesn't but it does happen to some.  

Prozac is listed as a drug that caused mitochondria damage not all Ads are on the list at least not yet. 

 

It is not the only Ad on the mito damage list and other psych drugs are on it too. 

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DLB

Yeah, I seen the list and kinda glad paxil is not on it but even aspirin is. I hope it is reversible.. I also noticed that fluoroquinolone antibiotics are not on it but I'm sure they should be!

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btdt

Yeah, I seen the list and kinda glad paxil is not on it but even aspirin is. I hope it is reversible.. I also noticed that fluoroquinolone antibiotics are not on it but I'm sure they should be!

If your talking about the link I posted with the chronic fatigue threads here that list was made years ago I found it .. long ago before quinoline drug existed.  There may be an undated version I have not looked to tell you the truth. 

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btdt

This one has some results from this decade at least

http://www.mitoaction.org/files/Dykens%20for%20Mitoaction.pdf

 

I see the drug I reacted to this summer made the list...

Beta-Blocker]
Atenolol
This article says Atenolol has a black box warning .. I know for a fact I got NO WARNING  when I bought this drug I will be contacting my drug store.  I am pissed.
 
I find it strange there is not an antidepressant on this list anywhere ...how odd is that?

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btdt

The only place where I see antidepressants or anti psychotics mentions that does not come up on an article search btw is on page 10 in a diagram

titled 

mitochondrial drug interactions - peter obrien u of t 

Univeritiy of Toronto

 

and a book

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/9780470372531.ch3/summary

 

pdf if anyone has the brain for it i don't

http://samples.sainsburysebooks.co.uk/9780470372524_sample_388626.pdf

some bits in this article about calcium worth a look when my brain turns on fully again 

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btdt

Yeah, I seen the list and kinda glad paxil is not on it but even aspirin is. I hope it is reversible.. I also noticed that fluoroquinolone antibiotics are not on it but I'm sure they should be!

If you check the link on post 41 you will see the type of mitochondria damage caused by different drugs is different... and not causing the same results as in symptoms ... anti psychotics do not damage the mitochondria in the same way as antidepressants.  If a person were taking both these types of drugs I suspect the damage would be more. 

The areas of the electron transport chain that can have drug induced problems differ by drug.

 

Antipsychotics  disrupt the area called complex 1 other drugs in this list are anti diabetics anticonvulsants antihyperlipidemics anesthetics and other drugs which I don't know.

 

If a person who had seizures was diabetic and taking a cholesterol lowering drug had surgery requiring an anesthetic...I don't know what would happen but I would not want to be that person and I would like to know what would happen being Eve with the apple I am curious.

 

Antidepressants (it does not define which ones just says antidepressants) - inhibitors of fatty acid  B- oxidation  other drugs listed as in this category are Tetracycline, NSAID, antidepressants, tamoxifen

page 10 here 

http://www.mitoaction.org/files/Dykens%20for%20Mitoaction.pdf

 

it shows a lot of other drugs I don't know

 

As antidepressants are often given for pain I could see a person taking an NSAID with them and since ADs in crease lipids a Crestor or other antilipid drug would be reasonable 

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WiggleIt

Can mitochondria be healed? This list ruined the day that I worked so hard to try to make better.

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btdt

Can mitochondria be healed? This list ruined the day that I worked so hard to try to make better.

Maybe I have forwarded your question to a person who knows more about it than I do.  Waiting for a response there are few things suggested to help.  I can't recall them 

there is a site called spacedoc.com a NASA doctor who had mitochondria damage from taking lipid lowering drugs he started a site and a campaign against statin drugs like lipitor and crestor there are a few others... he has suggestions on how to help this. I do know them I just can't think of them right now. 

peace

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btdt

 

who is up for trying the Wahls protocol with me? Add a few supplements, eats tons of plant foods, reduce stress/meditate, etc...seems like a good plan and I know I am now making autoantibodies quite possibly bc of the drugs and WD so I am wanting to arrest this before it moves onto something bigger like MS or ALS. Who is up for a Wahls challenge?

Here here here :D I am IN :D

 

What do you think : Should we use this thread as our Wahls diary for trying it out or should we start a separat one. Maybe the mods can help ? Could we start in 1 or 2 weeks or I join later?

 

I need to buy the book first + right now my fridge is filled with stuff,that is not Wahl-safe (like milk and nuts ) and I dont wnat to throw it away.

 

If you wnat to start now, I will join when my fridge is empty lol

 

This is exciting. I really hope it can help us a little bit.

 

By all means start a new thread in self care as there is the section where dieting information would belong.  

please respect the original posters right to have a topic of their choice. 

peace

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bruno2016

I was looking into how antidepressants affect the immune system or how they could alter the immune system and found and article from 2006 stating that "serotonin is passed between key cells in the immune system, and that the chemical is specifically used to activate an immune response". The article also claims that antidepressants can can supposedly "boost" the immune system and cause an autoimmune disease. I cant help but think that the reason I am now producing AUtoantibodies is directly related to the drugs and rapid cessation of them. This is very concerning!  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060119230939.htm

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btdt

I was looking into how antidepressants affect the immune system or how they could alter the immune system and found and article from 2006 stating that "serotonin is passed between key cells in the immune system, and that the chemical is specifically used to activate an immune response". The article also claims that antidepressants can can supposedly "boost" the immune system and cause an autoimmune disease. I cant help but think that the reason I am now producing AUtoantibodies is directly related to the drugs and rapid cessation of them. This is very concerning!  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060119230939.htm

From your link

""In addition to the physical contact, it surprised us to find that these immune cells also have machinery to take up serotonin and to secrete it in an excitatory manner," Ahern said. "The point behind this transmission is not entirely clear, but it appears to be an additional way of stimulating a T cell response."

Drugs that block serotonin reuptake "likely change some of the parameters of T-cell activation, but we don't know yet if it enhances or inhibits the total immune response," Ahern said. "But it is something that should be explored because we really have no idea what SSRIs are doing to people's immune systems."

 

It sounds like they don't know... as usual... it is old information from 2006 ...should be explored and maybe it has been but they don't have to tell us a thing... buggers it all depends on who does the study and who owns the information...

Health information should not be owned by any company but of course it is... we allow it. 

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bruno2016

 

I was looking into how antidepressants affect the immune system or how they could alter the immune system and found and article from 2006 stating that "serotonin is passed between key cells in the immune system, and that the chemical is specifically used to activate an immune response". The article also claims that antidepressants can can supposedly "boost" the immune system and cause an autoimmune disease. I cant help but think that the reason I am now producing AUtoantibodies is directly related to the drugs and rapid cessation of them. This is very concerning!  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060119230939.htm

From your link

""In addition to the physical contact, it surprised us to find that these immune cells also have machinery to take up serotonin and to secrete it in an excitatory manner," Ahern said. "The point behind this transmission is not entirely clear, but it appears to be an additional way of stimulating a T cell response."

Drugs that block serotonin reuptake "likely change some of the parameters of T-cell activation, but we don't know yet if it enhances or inhibits the total immune response," Ahern said. "But it is something that should be explored because we really have no idea what SSRIs are doing to people's immune systems."

 

It sounds like they don't know... as usual... it is old information from 2006 ...should be explored and maybe it has been but they don't have to tell us a thing... buggers it all depends on who does the study and who owns the information...

Health information should not be owned by any company but of course it is... we allow it. 

 

Yea thanks for pointing that out. Gosh, I am angry. I mean, I am 30 years old and often feel much older and now I have a possible autoimmune condition to deal with and it is my firm belief that these drugs played a part, however significant. I believe I can reverse this to some extent but it still makes me very angry that I have lost so many years to these drugs.  :(  :(  :(  :(

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btdt

 

 

I was looking into how antidepressants affect the immune system or how they could alter the immune system and found and article from 2006 stating that "serotonin is passed between key cells in the immune system, and that the chemical is specifically used to activate an immune response". The article also claims that antidepressants can can supposedly "boost" the immune system and cause an autoimmune disease. I cant help but think that the reason I am now producing AUtoantibodies is directly related to the drugs and rapid cessation of them. This is very concerning!  http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/01/060119230939.htm

From your link

""In addition to the physical contact, it surprised us to find that these immune cells also have machinery to take up serotonin and to secrete it in an excitatory manner," Ahern said. "The point behind this transmission is not entirely clear, but it appears to be an additional way of stimulating a T cell response."

Drugs that block serotonin reuptake "likely change some of the parameters of T-cell activation, but we don't know yet if it enhances or inhibits the total immune response," Ahern said. "But it is something that should be explored because we really have no idea what SSRIs are doing to people's immune systems."

 

It sounds like they don't know... as usual... it is old information from 2006 ...should be explored and maybe it has been but they don't have to tell us a thing... buggers it all depends on who does the study and who owns the information...

Health information should not be owned by any company but of course it is... we allow it. 

 

Yea thanks for pointing that out. Gosh, I am angry. I mean, I am 30 years old and often feel much older and now I have a possible autoimmune condition to deal with and it is my firm belief that these drugs played a part, however significant. I believe I can reverse this to some extent but it still makes me very angry that I have lost so many years to these drugs.  :(  :(  :(  :(

 

I think anger is a rather rational response to this situation you would be hard pressed to find anyone in withdrawal who is not angry about all of this. 

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ikam

Is there any connection between AD and high cholesterol?

 

I agree that there is a connection between AD and autoimmune problems. My body is full of them...

I am 55, but my body is much, much older...

I have been taking antidepressants since I was 23years old...that time there was no knowledge on late problems they cause...

 

I feel angry and hopeless...

What can I do now?! Not much...

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btdt

I don't yet know what to do about it but understanding it would be what I would suggest first and then go from there... maybe it starts with asking the right questions of the right people... using anything we find along the way to present the issue we suspect to doctors ect. 

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ikam

I don't yet know what to do about it but understanding it would be what I would suggest first and then go from there... maybe it starts with asking the right questions of the right people... using anything we find along the way to present the issue we suspect to doctors ect.

 

You right, understanding is essential and I understand much more now. I can see now how I let doctors to treat me for years...

I did not realise how much destruction is caused by AD...i started using them when I was 23 years old...that time all medication was usually stopped colde turkey or replaced with something else...i remember one time I was on AD + sleeping pills in evening and activating ones in the morning...

 

I have had developed msny strange physical symptoms and illnesses since...

 

Sometimes I feel it is too late for repair...

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btdt

at this point I was reading about a probiotic call primal defence and may try it but I need to learn more about the gut first... a labour that is coming very very slowly... as I find motivation hard to come by... so much easier stuff is around...

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ikam

at this point I was reading about a probiotic call primal defence and may try it but I need to learn more about the gut first... a labour that is coming very very slowly... as I find motivation hard to come by... so much easier stuff is around...

I used to take primal defence when tappering from effexor. It had a good effect on me...

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btdt

This may sound silly but I like something about it......

 

"I am not a regular on this forum either but do so agree with you.  All the symptoms mentioned are due to gut dysbiosis.  IBS, hypothyroid, skin conditions, malabsorption, diarrhea, constipation, tingling, numbness, etc are all symptoms of celiac, which in turn is a gut condition. 70% of your immune system is in your gut, so start here for autoimmune conditions eg. diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, allergies, etc. 

Check for the following 2 signs: 
1.  Braly's Sign - short little finger (top of little finger falls below distal joint of ring finger).  Indicates gluten and lactose intolerance and perhaps Celiac Disease. 
2.  Morton's Toe - 2nd toe longer than the big toe.  Indicates the liver has an inability to convert B6 to P5P.  That means you need to supplement with P5P.  B6 can also build up in your body, as it is not getting converted to a usable form.  Many people with this problem can't recall dreams. Other symptoms are depression, skin eruptions, tingling, short term memory loss, irritability and PMS. 

My son has both a short little finger and longer second toe.  He also had low thyroid, and impaired function of kidney and liver.  He is making good progress on the GAPS Protocol and expects to follow it for another year. I would recommend this gut healing protocol to everyone. 
Hope this helps. 
Mary-Pat"ene

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Neurology/B6-pyridoxal-phosphate-levels-very-high-in-bloodwork/show/13007

 

From the same link

'I also had my b6 level come back at 75 and it was 60 in January.  I have some of the same symtoms (symptoms) numbnesss in arm and foot and muscle twitches everywhere and hard to focus as well as headaches.  Some balance issues seems lately or just my feet don't feel as strong as they used too.  I have had 7 mris 2 brain 2 cervical 2 thorasic and 1 lumbar also Evoked potential test and 5 emgs.  No signs of ms or als or anything like that I have been worked over completely.  Also I have started a tremor in my hands but not a resting tremor.  Neuro is of no help and will probably end up at the Mayo clinic.  I just got off all my supplements 2 days ago and am going back to the doctor next week to have it tested again.  I also had a metabolic specialist look at may amino acids and said there was no evidence of metabolic syndrome.  Anyway I would love to keep in touch and see if we can help eachother out with our doctors responses or test etc.  I am a 38 year old female and my symptoms started about  1 year ago.  thanks so much "

 

I was looking at this as B6 makes me depressed and it shouldn't but does.  I was on nothing else when I tried it.. I was surprised to see too much B6 in you body can cause MS symptoms I have a lot of them again.  

 

Some on this site say the B6 getting too high can be an issue with what your eating or drinking such as energy drinks ect... I do not partake of such things and don't see a connection.  Only took one half pill of B6 ever surely it has wore off by now. It has been suggested at that site that high B6 is caused by a metabolic issue but none has been reported yet.  It also stated to not take any mulit vit or other source of B6 that is not in the from of food. and in 2- 3 years the levels will come down by themselves if it is not a metabolic issue.

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btdt

 

at this point I was reading about a probiotic call primal defence and may try it but I need to learn more about the gut first... a labour that is coming very very slowly... as I find motivation hard to come by... so much easier stuff is around...

I used to take primal defence when tappering from effexor. It had a good effect on me...

 

 

Thanks could you tell me what effects you felt it had did it for instance help with pain... as I find when I take the probiotic I have been taking for years now... I always took it as needed.. but now even one dose seems to increasing pain in my body especially in my feet.  I don't know if this is just me but I a learning to trust me and I don't want to take it any longer even tho... I need it for digestion right now.  It is not worth the pain I would rather have the runs. really I would. 

How about flu like symptoms of symptoms of ibs did it help?  

 

I am looking at that one and another call prescript assist... both look good but there are more reports of immune symptom help from primal defense the extremely over priced store where I could buy it only has primal defense.  Still not sure.. think I am just afraid of running out of money before I run out of month and put off buying either hoping it will clear up on its own ... but it is not... I now know at least it is not the flu.  That is something I guess. 

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ikam

 

 

at this point I was reading about a probiotic call primal defence and may try it but I need to learn more about the gut first... a labour that is coming very very slowly... as I find motivation hard to come by... so much easier stuff is around...

 

I used to take primal defence when tappering from effexor. It had a good effect on me...

 

Thanks could you tell me what effects you felt it had did it for instance help with pain... as I find when I take the probiotic I have been taking for years now... I always took it as needed.. but now even one dose seems to increasing pain in my body especially in my feet.  I don't know if this is just me but I a learning to trust me and I don't want to take it any longer even tho... I need it for digestion right now.  It is not worth the pain I would rather have the runs. really I would. 

How about flu like symptoms of symptoms of ibs did it help?  

 

I am looking at that one and another call prescript assist... both look good but there are more reports of immune symptom help from primal defense the extremely over priced store where I could buy it only has primal defense.  Still not sure.. think I am just afraid of running out of money before I run out of month and put off buying either hoping it will clear up on its own ... but it is not... I now know at least it is not the flu.  That is something I guess.

I don't remeber exactly, as it was few years ago and I was on other supplements that time. I remeber my immune system was better that time. But I was few years younger and had generally less stress that time...

It is quite expensive in the uk as well...

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ikam

This may sound silly but I like something about it......

 

"I am not a regular on this forum either but do so agree with you.  All the symptoms mentioned are due to gut dysbiosis.  IBS, hypothyroid, skin conditions, malabsorption, diarrhea, constipation, tingling, numbness, etc are all symptoms of celiac, which in turn is a gut condition. 70% of your immune system is in your gut, so start here for autoimmune conditions eg. diabetes, rheumatoid arthritis, allergies, etc. [/size]

Check for the following 2 signs: [/size]1.  Braly's Sign - short little finger (top of little finger falls below distal joint of ring finger).  Indicates gluten and lactose intolerance and perhaps Celiac Disease. [/size]2.  Morton's Toe - 2nd toe longer than the big toe.  Indicates the liver has an inability to convert B6 to P5P.  That means you need to supplement with P5P.  B6 can also build up in your body, as it is not getting converted to a usable form.  Many people with this problem can't recall dreams. Other symptoms are depression, skin eruptions, tingling, short term memory loss, irritability and PMS. [/size]My son has both a short little finger and longer second toe.  He also had low thyroid, and impaired function of kidney and liver.  He is making good progress on the GAPS Protocol and expects to follow it for another year. I would recommend this gut healing protocol to everyone. [/size]Hope this helps. [/size]Mary-Pat"ene[/size]

http://www.medhelp.org/posts/Neurology/B6-pyridoxal-phosphate-levels-very-high-in-bloodwork/show/13007

 

From the same link

'I also had my b6 level come back at 75 and it was 60 in January.  I have some of the same symtoms [/size](symptoms)[/size] numbnesss in arm and foot and muscle twitches everywhere and hard to focus as well as headaches.  Some balance issues seems lately or just my feet don't feel as strong as they used too.  I have had 7 mris 2 brain 2 cervical 2 thorasic and 1 lumbar also Evoked potential test and 5 emgs.  No signs of ms or als or anything like that I have been worked over completely.  Also I have started a tremor in my hands but not a resting tremor.  Neuro is of no help and will probably end up at the Mayo clinic.  I just got off all my supplements 2 days ago and am going back to the doctor next week to have it tested again.  I also had a metabolic specialist look at may amino acids and said there was no evidence of metabolic syndrome.  Anyway I would love to keep in touch and see if we can help eachother out with our doctors responses or test etc.  I am a 38 year old female and my symptoms started about  1 year ago.  thanks so much "[/size]

 

I was looking at this as B6 makes me depressed and it shouldn't but does.  I was on nothing else when I tried it.. I was surprised to see too much B6 in you body can cause MS symptoms I have a lot of them again.  [/size]

 

Some on this site say the B6 getting too high can be an issue with what your eating or drinking such as energy drinks ect... I do not partake of such things and don't see a connection.  Only took one half pill of B6 ever surely it has wore off by now. It has been suggested at that site that high B6 is caused by a metabolic issue but none has been reported yet.  It also stated to not take any mulit vit or other source of B6 that is not in the from of food. and in 2- 3 years the levels will come down by themselves if it is not a metabolic issue.

Few years ago my naturopath was treating me for disbiosis.

I am going to see her again. I hope this will make a change...

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btdt

Only one store I can get to said they have it .. when I arrived I learned it was not the right one.  So still looking at the rate I am going I may just give up and try something else there seems to be very little available here that I see online so may as well stop looking at unavailable things online. I am so lazy lately getting out is a big chore. 

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ikam

Only one store I can get to said they have it .. when I arrived I learned it was not the right one. So still looking at the rate I am going I may just give up and try something else there seems to be very little available here that I see online so may as well stop looking at unavailable things online. I am so lazy lately getting out is a big chore.

 

There are a lot of products here that are available only on line...Maybe it would be esaier for you to order it? No need to get out then :)

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btdt

I have no credit cards gave them up after a manic spending spree I had enough sense to do that at least and I am thankful I did. 

Ads can cause high cholesterol just so you know sorry it took so long to answer. 

peace

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Meimeiquest

Amy Meyers MD has a new book out on autoimmunity. It might be The Autoimmune Solution or The Autoimmune Handbook. There were a lot of complaints about her on Yelp, but I find her website useful. I think she might be one of those docs who deals better with diseases on a conceptual level rather than actual treatment, but I don't have any actual data good or bad about her. Kelly Brogan is very into the interplay between mental health and immunology. Her website is kellybroganmd.com.

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btdt

I am not too interested in hearing more about your sick and it is in your head crap.. I am done with all that for good.  I don't believe it think it is insulting and incorrect. The said for a long time yuppy flu was in your head too and a host of other things it is an easy out for people responsible to hide in the dark and try to drag us to the dark too well I am not going.  

I know that when I take the probiotic I have now I have more pain.. finally figured that out.. pain in other parts of my body not related to my gut. 

I learned if you have colitis which I was told I have by my gp certain probiotics can be bad for it. 

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btdt

on page 107 he mentions auto immunological processes and pulmonary fibrosis ....

these are new to me. He is talking about side effects of prozac and stated like drugs do the same. 

I suggest you start reading on page 106 so it makes some sense. 

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btdt



  1. The thymus gland, despite containing glandular tissue and producing several hormones, is much more closely associated with the immune system than with the endocrine system. The thymus serves a vital role in the training and development of T-lymphocytes or T cells, an extremely important type of white blood cell.





  2. Thymus Gland - Anatomy Pictures and Information

    www.innerbody.com/image_endoov/lymp04-new.html

     

    Nope I don't know what it all means but maybe why we get so sore and so sick.. who knows could use some help figuring it out.. 




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