Raul: hello i'm a new member

[bluebalu86]

Glad to hear you're OK Raul. 

[bubble]

Hello Raul,

 

if getting off ADs scares you so much then why are you coming off? You can make your goal to reduce your dose only as low and as slow as you feel comfortable.

 

The worst thing is to shock your brain with stopping and starting. You are still recovering from stopping escitalopram in June. After I did the same it took me around 4 months to strat feeling the wayI felt before stopping.

 

Even if people who do a properly slow taper still have some symptoms they are manageable and don't interfer too much with the quality of life. But in your situation you should really do yourself a service and not think about tapering and coming off ADs. This is a neuroemotion. Just focus on your wellbeing here and now.

 

If I were you I wouldn't dismiss a psychologist. I think that if I loaded my friends and family with all the issues I deal with with the help of my therapist they would all find it too much. We need other people but we also need to learn to take care of ourselves and manage our emotions and fears.

 

You really gave us a fright. I'm glad you are well.

 

Take care. 

[raul]

thanks blubalue and bubbles for your replies. Yes, now i need your support, you are the only ones that can understand me, even more than a terapist. Yes, i come off of the ADs, because i think i didn't need them anymore because i was feeling great, and yes i think y damaged my brain with all that stuff, but also no doctor and even me didn't know about that. It was last year that i knew this useful fórum, and so last time i did a 6 month reduction of 1 mg every month thinking that it was ok, but i knew i was mistaken. Lesson learned. These meds are very very strong for me, and so i have to assume this. No way.

My cats are with me now, they are adorable, the only ones that are with me always and i love them a lot.

[bluebalu86]

Focus on stabilizing right now Raul. You will make the decision to taper or not to taper later. Right now just take care of yourself and do not attempt to harm yourself anymore.

I'm also waiting for stability since I messed with my meds this year. 

[bubble]

Focus on stabilizing right now Raul. You will make the decision to taper or not to taper later. Right now just take care of yourself and do not attempt to harm yourself anymore.

I'm also waiting for stability since I messed with my meds this year. 

 

That's a nice message from Bluebalu

 

Just focus on one hour at a time and doing things which feel good for you.

[Flowers]

Hi Raul

 

I am so glad you are OK! I understand everything that you have written.This whole thing is very scary and our brain play tricks on us when we are in WD. It can feel as though no one understands but those on this site do as they have been there themselves.

 

I felt just like you when I crashed end of last year. I am finally getting stable. I do want to taper off these drugs because I am getting bad side effects from them.

 

At the moment just be gentle on yourself and don't worry too much about the future. Once  you get stable and are feeling better you will be in a better place to make any big decisions about the meds.

 

I love the picture of your cats - they are so cute. I have 4 cats and 2 dogs which we rescued when they had been abandoned. Animals are such a great comfort - mine have helped me tremendously through the bad times.

 

We are very lucky we live in such a beautiful country with plenty of sunshine to make us feel better. It has been sooooo hot this summer though hasn't it?

 

Take care and let us know how you are doing.

 

Flowers xxxx

[AmyK]

Raul, I am so happy to hear from you and that you are safe. As Flowers says, these feelings will change when you feel more stable. Take care and be kind towards your self. You will feel better. Hugs!

[dalsaan]

Raul

 

I'm glad you are ok. I was worried for you

 

If I was you I would continue to find face to face help in the form of therapy. Even if they don't understand withdrawal they should be able to help you stopping catastrophising, enable you to stay in the present and not invest all your energy on what's going to happen in the future. They can also help you to identify self soothing techniques

 

Your thoughts and emotions impact your stress levels which exacerbates withdrawal. Only you can get a grip on this. We can't do that for you. Your therapist should be able to help with techniques, then it's up to you to put those into practice.

 

You also need to write down the number of the suicide help line and call them if you feel you are going to harm yourself. As an online forum there is very little we can do for you at those times and posting your intentions during episodes of acute crises places a lot of stress on the community.

 

Dalsaan

[raul]

Hello, well, after 3 days of no depression and feeling very good, i cleaned my house, gardening,bycicle, barber, shaving, gym, supermarket, go with a friend to the centre city, and did a lot of things, maybe thinking that this would finish, yesterday night after having a very good massage session and accupunture, i went to bed feeling somewhat strange, my level anxiety is lower than last weeks  but i noticed that my veins in my arms were thicker (a signal of anxiety/high cortisol) and finally i slept bad and woke up in the middle of the night,so got really angry with myselfand made a mistake: i took a half pill of mirtazapine (an AD that helps to sleep), and slept more hours, BUT now i feel like a zombi, didn't do anything, and do not want to to do anything that just stay at home. I feel depressed and strange again. I wish i would only accept that my pattern sleep is deregulated, and so not make stupid things.

So my question is: it is normal to have waves and Windows during reinstantment? i thought it is only happens in post-tapering. Maybe it is better to call good and bad days instead of w.and w. in reinstantment.

 I

[Petunia]

Hi Raul,

Its great to hear that you had some good days. This is the way it happens with reinstatement too, windows and waves, here is the topic:

 

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

The mirtazapine you accidentally took might have caused the wave. Sometimes not sleeping well is to be expected, if you reach for a drug when this happens, you will be slowing down the stabilization process.

 

See: The rule of 3KIS: Keep it simple. Keep it slow. Keep it stable.

and Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have withdrawal insomnia

 

I'm sure you will have another window soon, in the mean time, keep taking care of yourself, you are doing really well.

 

Petunia.

[DaddyCee]

Raul, this will pass. I had a trying time when I came off from Escitalopram that lasted 4 months initially though I still get residual feelings on a daily basis.  You will get through this. And be kind to yourself and don't continually think about getting well. 

 

The book "At Last A Life" from Paul David really helped me and I am reading his second book now, which fleshes out the bones from the first book.  Also I listened to audio recordings from Claire Weekes, she really does know the topic about Depression and Anxiety and is very good at explaining in detail.  It might be worth you taking a look at some point.

 

Namaste.

[Pharmageddon]

Raul, I'm so glad to hear you are doing better!

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but compared to what you were going through before, the "wave" from the Mirtazepine sounds relatively mild. As you know I have recently stabilized on my reinstatement of Lexapro, with an updose of Klonopin. It's weird how, once we are stabilizing, the extreme suffering we endured before becomes hard to remember almost as if it were a vaguely-recalled nightmare. With this forgetting, new suffering that is relatively mild in comparison starts seeming huge. It always helps me to remember how bad things were before and then I feel lucky by comparison 

 

Another related thing that helps me a lot is that once you begin stabilizing, you get a lot more control over the waves--instead of being naked and helpless in the stormy sea, you've got a boat! I feel like there is a lot more I can do now to proactively avoid oncoming waves. For me it's been really important to maintain the fine line between too much stress and not enough living. Resting all the time can be a stress of its own, that tends to be my problem. Take it slowly, avoid shocks to your system both emotionally and physically--but stay engaged and keep in touch with whatever gives you meaning and (if possible) joy in life--at least for me this is the most powerful tool I have to heal. Without some larger meaning, our chemically sabotaged lives become empty struggles to avoid pain. 

[raul]

thanks pharmageddon for your reply, but i still not stabilised. After 3 good days, now i feel depressed again, with anhedonia and do not want to do anything. It is crazy because the days before were the opposite. I think that it is the first time in my life been on AD, that i am really bad, even i have a sick note, and so i am not working, i tried but it was impossible for me. Just the fact of seeing my coworkers happy at work is too much for me. And when a coworker weeks ago told me that i have to be strong, that what i have is a problem of "facing life", that was too much. Nobody understands that, that's why i feel so lonely. Anyway, the only thing i have is time and patience, and your support, because anybody here understands me. Feeling depressed y try to laugh, feeling exhausted y try to go to the gim and do some bike, feeling anxious i try to ignore it. It is a real fight against myself. It is really, really difficult.

It is the first time in my life after 10 years being on ADs, that i have to fight so much. I am really scared, about my present and future.

Every morning i woke up i pray for not suffering anymore, but everyday are the same. I have a kind of strange agoraphobia, i do not want to go out from bed,because  i feel depressed and anxious.

I was thinking to go to work again for the reason of time goes by more quickly, but how?? if i have a crying episode? if i made mistakes (for my bad memory and lack of concentration), my boss is very nervous and strict, she knows i am "depressed", but the world outside i feel it opressive and agressive and i have to work, i have no economy support for my family or others.

I also feel that my Friends are "losing patience", and so i lie to them and i say that i am feeling better (that's a lie) only for they can be with me. People don't want to stay with a person that suffers all the time and so that scares me too, but i understand them. Some Friends stopped calling me and some "disappeared".

So as i said first: time and patience (with lots of suffering between). It is very frustrating, so please understand me when sometimes i explode into tears and threaten myself to "suicide", maybe i am not as brave of many of you. I have been always a person with "social anxiety" and very sensitive. I just only want to be understood and want some support in these difficults times.

I also was thinking that maybe apart from the withdrawls symptoms i am not sure if i am in a "real depression" too, because of all of this situation.

Anyway, lots of hugs for everybody. And do not forget that you all are my real support now in my life.

[AmyK]

I am not brave. I am often very anxoius and worried. But I feel strong too, in my weakness. A person is many things, so are you.

 

For me acceptance has been a big help. "This is the way I feel now, but it will pass". For me, that is comforting. Many hugs!

[AliG]

 Raul,

 

What helped me was  taking my mind off myself, to focus on others.  You sound  "self involved ". I can understand that, however if you took the "emphasis" off yourself, you might find some  relief in helping others.  At the moment, it's all you.  I can understand that you have your problems, however  maybe if you " re- focussed", towards others, you would find some relief.  I don't mean to upset you, but it's worth thinking about !!   Have a think , Raul.       Ali.

[bluebalu86]

Don't worry Raul, we are all here for you. You are not alone. We are all behind you and will support you through these tough times. You will make it through. It will start to get better. Don't worry.

[AliG]

Whatever you think, Raul.   It's all good. .

 

Stay strong.

 

 Ali .

[raul]

hello, i have bad news, next week i have to start to work, i have been not working for 2 weeks with a sick note. But the main problem is that, generally my symptoms have improved a bit: not more crying, less anxiety and depression.....but i continue with horrible insomnia and that makes me no productive enough to face a work. I need to sleep and sometimes i only sleep 2 hours, and then i have lack of concentration, memory, etc. I use a mask sleep, black curtains, everything, and also i have 1 mg klonopin at nights (benzodiacepine) to help to sleep but it doesn't work. What can i do? I am tempted to go to the psych to put me a strong medicine to sleep, it is the only way i think i can face work and life, i need to work because i have no more economical support. My parents live in another country, and my family can't support me economically. Uff, now i feel very depressed of the whole situation. What can i do? please help me with some advices.

[ang]

Hello Raul, I havent read your whole thread...................  but effexor?  devils tic tacs...........mirtazapine, the rocket fuel?????? if you survive those still sane, you doing damn well!

 

How old are you?  Forget about work, get well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or stay on drugs, that keep you functioning so you can work??? UNTIL YOU SO SICK YOU CRASH! Drugs? That is a downward spiral.............. All I can say is welcome to this big group of sufferers, and yes they have wonderful advice,

 

Refuse STRESS, FIRST MAJOR HEALING>............  so you cant work, so what?  forget the stress,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, go with the flow,,,,,,,,,,,,,, forgive yourself everything, stop feeling guilty, float, just float, as you get well.................. focus your healing on things that distract you as you heal, everyone else can look after themselves, ignore the pressure.............. just float, dont push yourself,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, cant go to work, cant go to work? Then DONT GO TO WORK! Can you get disability pension, while you heal?????????? ?  I did............ I am grateful.......................

 

I had to quit a new successful business 9 months ago, and recover,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, so glad I decided I wanted to recover, and not just keep surviving!

 

For me?  I get well first, and damn after a year of horrible suffering, I got employment, and I am so glad I dont need those damn drugs to survive.............  

 

anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, do what this site recommends, a slow taper, I got here too late.............. so I am suffering, BUT DAMN SURVIVING, REAL INFORMATION.................. good luck!

 

Cant go to work?  DONT GO TO WORK!

[ang]

Venlaxafine,  devils tic tacs,  you are doing well!

[ang]

Focus on others?  we cant focus on others until we are well,                    not many  others gave a damn about me.............. I had to realise, I am the most IMPORTANT ONE,  no one else,   when I get well, as I deserve to !!!!!!!!!!!!................... I deserve to allow myself to get well, pamper myself and get well, then I can help others, meanwhile, I AM THE ONLY ONE IMPORTANT IN MY WORLD,   and my son supports that, I can not support or care for my son, until I respect the fact, I am the most important one in my life, and allow myself to get well. If I cant work, bad luck, if I cant cook, bad luck, if I cant clean, bad luck........... I forgive myself for all my failings, and damn I am getting well................... no one needs guilt, for not doing stuff for others............... stuff the others, I need to get well first, no stress, just healing.

[raul]

Hello ang, i am 45 years old, next week 46. Yes, i survived mirtazapine and effexor, but.......i have been a lot on and off's these drugs that now i am not sure if they are working well. Everyday i take lexapro i get angry. I can't understand that a "medicine" has to be so bad. Finally i updosed to 10 mg and depression is not too bad, but insomnia is worst and that really depress me so is a vicious cycle, and.........i need to sleep if i try to work and concentrate. I need to work, because i am independent.

It is hellish, i am good looking (is what people say), have good Friends, 2 lovely cats, a beautiful house that finally is mine, everything to be happy........and my life destroyed by these drugs...sigh. Sometimes i am getting crazy, how can i explain this stuff to others, my best friend that is on AD too (zoloft for 10 years, and off and on when he wants and he feels fine) thinks that the best for me is to take the AD, and is hard to explain to him, that the AD is not working properly as the last times. Well, these days i feel lost, i hope the next ones will be better. Can't understand too why some people take ADs as candys and not make them bad (like my best friend, i hate him ) .

Hugs.

[ang]

How many damn people are on these horrific drugs, as the psych says,   "oh he has to provide an income for his family"      only for the poor man to crash and burn 10 years later,,,,,,,,,,,, why didnt the psych say "oh you are not well, go on a holiday for 6 months" no damn profit for a psych in recommending a holiday, if he prescribes drugs, got a long term customer, anbd paybacks by Merck, for flogging the damn drugs.

[ang]

I was 45 went on effexor, due to a bad reaction to a damn valium.......................... ten years later?  lost my house, my husband, my life , my self esteem.............. but damn I am alive................ 

Your choice.. I am 56 and damn so glad to have my brain back, not well, but well enough to work

 

The Pills Kill, your choice, you only 45............................. at 54, I had high blood pressure, stage 3a kidney disease, liver failure, high cholestesterol,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, the doc wanted me to take more drugs, I said no, and started getting off the **** that was killing me,........................ only in desperation did I find this site, now I am more balanced, have a tapering plan, and so greatful to be alive, more grateful I still have a brain tthat I am finding, actually still works a bit.

[dalsaan]

Hello Raul, I havent read your whole thread...................  but effexor?  devils tic tacs...........mirtazapine, the rocket fuel?????? if you survive those still sane, you doing damn well!

 

How old are you?  Forget about work, get well,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, or stay on drugs, that keep you functioning so you can work??? UNTIL YOU SO SICK YOU CRASH! Drugs? That is a downward spiral.............. All I can say is welcome to this big group of sufferers, and yes they have wonderful advice,

 

Refuse STRESS, FIRST MAJOR HEALING>............  so you cant work, so what?  forget the stress,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, go with the flow,,,,,,,,,,,,,, forgive yourself everything, stop feeling guilty, float, just float, as you get well.................. focus your healing on things that distract you as you heal, everyone else can look after themselves, ignore the pressure.............. just float, dont push yourself,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, cant go to work, cant go to work? Then DONT GO TO WORK! Can you get disability pension, while you heal?????????? ?  I did............ I am grateful.......................

 

I had to quit a new successful business 9 months ago, and recover,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, so glad I decided I wanted to recover, and not just keep surviving!

 

For me?  I get well first, and damn after a year of horrible suffering, I got employment, and I am so glad I dont need those damn drugs to survive.............  

 

anyway,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, do what this site recommends, a slow taper, I got here too late.............. so I am suffering, BUT DAMN SURVIVING, REAL INFORMATION.................. good luck!

 

Cant go to work?  DONT GO TO WORK!

  

Focus on others?  we cant focus on others until we are well,                    not many  others gave a damn about me.............. I had to realise, I am the most IMPORTANT ONE,  no one else,   when I get well, as I deserve to !!!!!!!!!!!!................... I deserve to allow myself to get well, pamper myself and get well, then I can help others, meanwhile, I AM THE ONLY ONE IMPORTANT IN MY WORLD,   and my son supports that, I can not support or care for my son, until I respect the fact, I am the most important one in my life, and allow myself to get well. If I cant work, bad luck, if I cant cook, bad luck, if I cant clean, bad luck........... I forgive myself for all my failings, and damn I am getting well................... no one needs guilt, for not doing stuff for others............... stuff the others, I need to get well first, no stress, just healing.

Ang can you tone down your responses please. The capital letters come across as shouting and you often project your own stuff onto others. Ali made a recommendation that we often support. Taking the focus of yourself and your withdrawal can be very useful to drop down the intensity and reduce the investment in the drama of withdrawal - both god things for your nervous system and your recovery

[raul]

Sorry, today too much sensitive, i started to cry in a bar with a friend, couldn't stop, now i am at home, too much depressed again. Sometimes i think not to have the information i have now about all the evil things these drugs made. Sometimes i prefer to live in ignorance, like years before, and forget my life on these meds. Sorry, but today i am not really well. Thank you ang and dalsaan, but i continue feeling very depressed although i have some good days.

[dalsaan]

Why don't you try something different like qigong -

 

Dalsaan

[Fresh]

Hi Raul ,   it takes 4 days after you updose for it to register in a steady level in your blood stream.  How many days since you went to 10mg?

 

Fresh

[raul]

hi fresh, i updose to 10 mg on 28th august (9 days ago), because of depression, anxiety and insomnia, after updosing i had 3 good days, but now everything is like before updosing.

Thanks dalsaan for the video.

I do not want to take anymore this poison, i reinstated 1 month and 15 days ago, do you consider it is ok if i decide to get off of my med completely, tomorrow for example ? maybe it sounds kamikaze, but maybe is the same suffering taking the drug that not taking it. Much confused and scared of possible consequences.

Any suggestions?

[Fresh]

Raul , please don't do anything silly like stop it altogether.   It may take another month before you stabilize , and you need to respect that.

 

After 10 years on ad's , it could be a disaster . . . much worse than when you CT'd in 2014 , and ended up reinstating anyway 3 months later.

Each time you assault your cns by taking away what it needs , it's like shaking up one of those toys with water inside and falling snow - it takes

time for the snow to settle.

 

The fact that you had 3 days of improvement is a good sign.  You've been strong before , you can do this.  Give it another month on the 10mg

and reassess.

[dalsaan]

Yes I recommend you try the video and anything else before you crash your system by going cold turkey. If you are not prepared to make good decisions for yourself, you need to develop a face to face support group that can help you to get to that place.

[raul]

Thanks dalsaan and fresh for your posts. I appreciate them a lot. My big problem now is cope with insomnia, if at least i can sleep well i can make a lot of things, and also depression and anxiety would be more low. They are all related.

Maybe i would try another med to help to sleep? i know that i then have to taper it in the future, but at least to survive these months. The klonopin at night is not effective, and i started only 1 month ago! I did research and the possibilities are: antipsychotics or benzos, both are scary, but i think i have no more choice. The third choice is to wait until i get stable......but when? who knows?

[Skyler]

Raul, I sent you a PM and see you have already read it!  

 

I'd love to know more about where you live in Spain and I'll bet others would as well..  this might be a way you could engage in a more upbeat conversation and still get much needed support.  And your cats... they look lovely.  When I was sick, my cats were a great solace.  

[raul]

Sorry, today i will stay at home with your company, i can't do much, so i am here now in my garden with one of my cats with me. I recently cried a lot, i do not know if it is good or not, but at least for me is both.

I live in Alicante, southeast of Spain, very sunny and dry, and mild winters. It rains only 5 or 6 days in the year, is ideal for tourists in summer to come here.Lots of english people come here to sunbath.  I have a very good job, but i am not going now, (sick note), i miss my coworkers but i know they are fine.  No much plans for today as i feel very depressed, but i am waiting for a friend to come, but i know that i would cry if i see him. My familiy live in other country, so i live alone in spain, in a big terraced house. I have two spare rooms, if you want to come and visit me it would be a pleasure.

Well, i hope this nightmare day ends, and next days would be more good at least. I have to be strong, it is difficult, but i will try.

HUgsxxx

[Skyler]

That's a good description.. when good things make us cry, we are depressed.  We cry when a friend visits because we think of how we feel when they leave.  Raul.. this is the challenge, to look at the positive, even when in despair.

 

Your living situation has many pluses... and you seem like a really nice person.  I hope you ally yourself with a real life therapist who can give you support during your dark times.  You don't need to think of it as psychotherapy, and indeed, a good friend, member of the clergy, or just someone you like may do.  Make islands in your day, times set aside to think about how good much of your life is.. and give yourself permission to be angry, then set the anger aside because you have every reason to believe the future will be better.

 

Raul.. you are very vulnerable right now, so try not to divulge too many specifics by which people could identify you in your narrative... that said, you have painted a lovely picture of your home.  Glad you shared.

[Pharmageddon]

Raul, I'm still confident that if you stay on one dose (now, 10 mg) for long enough, you will definitely stabilize. It might take a few months but it will happen! Also you say you aren't stabilizing, but you seem like you are on your way--you sound so much better than you were a couple weeks ago. I know you are still suffering a lot, but relatively it's an improvement and that is a good sign 

 

I was wondering, what time of day do you take your Lexapro? I found that taking it at night caused insomnia and I've heard others say the same. I'm guessing you already know about this but just in case, I thought I'd mention it.

 

Big hugs!