☼ OffEFFexor: hello everybody

[btdt]

 

 

May be worth some time researching not saying over think it but it is amazing the things we can learn and the sense symptoms make after we know... sometimes... not always of course ...nothing explains ssri snri withdrawal nothing I understand at least. 

peace 

When my brain fog isn't too bad, I prefer to grab as much info as I can.  And I love history--medical or otherwise. 

 

I had to dig a bit, but I just uncovered this (w/o paying for the article--they've made old articles so difficult to access w/o paying some third party a fee; it's not like the scientists who did the work get paid a royalty.) An article entitled "The Discovery of Fluoxetine Hydrochloride (Prozac)" from 2005.

 

http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic882884.files/Discovery%20Prozac%20Nature%20Drug%20Dis%202005.pdf

 

I did not pick these meds with that in mind.  The benadryl was recommended for acute withdrawal (along with Mg++, fish oil, et al.) and it really seemed to help.  The sudafed I've used for allergy congestion, and getting congested is one of my symptoms of acute and prolonged withdrawal.   Perhaps I stumbled upon an inadvertent, irregular taper.  Fascinating.

 

I am humbled that anyone takes the time to discuss my plight and problems.  I sincerely thank everyone for you input, experience and ideas.  Or, as we say in the 12-step world, experience, strength and hope.

 

Was it your doctor who made these drug recommendations? 

The fish oil I know comes with all wd sites now and mag.  There is one other thing you take I have never heard of....Mg Threonate is this something new or a different type of magnesium?  I don't know... 

as for people reading these post and others... for some our lives have been reduced to just this.. for me I spent a long time not able to read the computer... at least your functional still whatever your taking a lot to be said for that...

peace

[btdt]

You may have been treating the sinus pressure issues of pooped out or tolerance there is a warning against taking sudafed with effexor btw I know now I did not know when I was in pooped out I took like drugs too...who knows how much sooner I would have crashed without it. It is all quite interesting in retrospect... if only it were not so devastating for some of us. I am not sure why wd is not hitting you as it has some others but suspect these two drugs may be part of the reason why... tho of course we don't know for sure no double blind trials to quote haha... like they are good for much given the toying they do with them. 

I read a book called "Death by Perscription and one called Our Daily Meds" both explain how the system works but you seem to know already. peace

[OffEFFexor]

My doc did not recommend these drugs and supplements.  I picked up the suggestions online, on various patient message boards.

 

The Magnesium Threonate I had started taking as a supplement for general health, about a year ago while I was still on Effexor.  The guy at the health food store suggested this particular preparation, the threonate, caused more of the magnesium to be stored inside the blood-brain barrier.  It made sense, although the stuff is much more expensive than the other magnesium formulas.

 

It seemed to make me feel a little more alert, and to help my sleep.  (my sleep sucked on effexor--even when WD symptoms are bad, I sleep better off eff.)

 

I saw Whitaker on tv (cspan 2) speaking at length about his book.  I haven't gotten around to reading it.  I have had a lot of trouble concentrating enough to read books over the last three months--I can read in little bites on the internet, but can't focus on a book for more than a couple of pages.  Podcasts, too.  My fog has lifted today, and I am much clearer than I have been; most of the last few weeks no way could I focus enough to read that history of prozac paper, which is pretty dense.

[OffEFFexor]

I am not sure why wd is not hitting you as it has some others but suspect these two drugs may be part of the reason why...

That is a very reasonable idea, and I will give it some thought.  Maybe I'll stop them--I just don't know.

[btdt]

 

I am not sure why wd is not hitting you as it has some others but suspect these two drugs may be part of the reason why...

That is a very reasonable idea, and I will give it some thought.  Maybe I'll stop them--I just don't know.

 

I am not suggesting you quit them, seriously I am not.  Whatever your feeling so far your not in bed with the flu so it is better than where I was at this point.  

Really if I was going to do any advising it would be to keep my mouth shut... as I have no clue what is going on inside your brain... and I think your smart and maybe can figure it out.. maybe.  

Most people would say go back on and taper off slow... as I did not taper I know how bad cold turkey was for me... I would never in my lifetime want anyone to live through cold turkey it is that bad or was for me...everything else I tried failed. 

I am just suggesting what could be up  I have this idea that as a doctor maybe you can find some inside track with super knowledge a scientist... maybe...  a chemist... I don't know.  

In the past when I see a person has gone ct I have suggested they get back on asap and taper...especially if they were not in pooped out....  because I have never seen anyone make it as far as you without trouble.  Now supposedly there are some who don't have withdrawal as i recall with Effexor 22% of people have no withdrawal if we can trust that number it is the only one we have.  

I would guess we don't see that 22% why would we... they don't have a reason to be here so it is possible. 

Long ago I read a supposedly scientific paper that said some thing are more apt to get you withdrawal and or protracted withdrawal ... 

one thing on the list that I can no longer locate was

being on and off different psych drugs and reaching a certain age... 

 

Nobody can say for sure what is going on as there are no studies or proper tests just people like me and others here.  

I would suggest you ask more people and get suggestions if you want opinions there are no doctors here other than you that I know of. 

 

I have a question about the mg you use being good for the bbb.... why would we want "more of the magnesium to be stored inside the blood-brain barrier"?

I started fish oil before quitting Effexor to treat odd symptoms I was having that were suggestive of MS I don't have it... but started the fish oil while waiting on test results i took it for a couple of years of wd till I seemed to have greasy hair and skin ... I lowered and then stopped taking it. 

My idea is that as long as your functional you still have time to do research I hope you are a lucky one.

I get that you can't read much now so I will try to keep my posting down some. Has anyone suggested you go back on a lower dose of the Effexor?  your doctor or anyone here?  I am just curious. 

I wish you peace

[OffEFFexor]

Hey, I'm not functioning all that well, I spend most of the time in bed. I'm having a pretty good day/evening. 

 

I would've considered RI, except 1) I had five great months after my acute withdrawal was finished; 2) it was suggested that it was too late to expect RI to work (mid September, when the WD hit, was >6 months after the CT stop.)

 

Two days ago, I was having a really bad morning, and I was thinking of RI.  My doc thinks I should.  I will absolutely not restart effexor w/o trying lots and lots of alternatives, but he wants me to start something else (prozac, wellbutrin, or something.)  (he has been great, very open minded and my course has been a learning experience for him.)  But, for now, I'm gonna keep moving through hell.  I have a few good days, as I have in the past week, and I think maybe a window is opening.  As bad as I feel, I am reminded that many other people suffer many more symptoms than do I.  Despite the ups and downs, I think I'm making progress.

 

To be honest, the closest I have found to a super-knowledge source is Alto.  I traveled to San Francisco back in the fall, and I was going to contact Alto for the name of her doc out there (I had a small window thought the worst was behind me, so I didn't.)  My doc is on faculty of a local medical school (the same one I attended) and he has surveyed many of his peers (they have their own message boards.)  The system is just too powerfully tilted (corrupted is the proper word) to see very far beyond the orthodoxy, which is set by big pharma. 

 

The bottom line, within or outside of the medical industrial complex, we don't friggin' know how this marvelous system works.  We don't know how or why depression occurs.  We are all fumbling in the dark, relatively, and there are no molecular/pathophysiologic answers, only hints and guesses.

 

The mass of common experiences is one of the best sources of clues and hints.  When thousands of people report similar experiences, that is a potent and valuable knowledge source. 

 

As for the magnesium, I don't know.  A dude who owns a health food store suggested it, and it feels like it might have benefited me.  It kinda sounds like it makes sense to have a storage source more readily available, but I have no scientific basis.  It may be nonsense--for all I know, maintaining a 'normal' blood level of ionized magnesium is sufficient, and this 'penetrating the blood-brain barrier' is hoo-haa.  Not recommending it. 

 

Do you think, as a general rule, 6-9 months is too late for RI?  I'm not at all close to considering RI, even in the worst hours, but I'm curious your opinion, btdt (and anyone else who wants to chime in.)

 

ETA:  I've had almost no tinnitus most of today, and only a few minutes at a time of HA.  I had tinnitus while on effexor for at least a couple of years, much milder than in WD but still there nearly constantly.  Going a couple of hours with no buzzing at all has me positively giddy, even if it doesn't last.  Not so much a sense of relief, but a sense that this may be evidence of healing. 

[btdt]

I was thinking about you in bed last night there is a line I want to copy and make a suggestion on ... I am not prepared just yet but I am going to comment I just want to look up a few things first... and I want to get to your questions as well as ...think of those things that were on my mind last night... 

 

RI did not go well for me I felt like I had be poisoned and refused to take another pill tho had I know what I was in for maybe I would have... 

 

have you asked your do why he thinks you should switch drugs... from what I have seen that is not that good of an answer either you have start up effects while having withdrawal... 

I am very curious about your currant drug intake ... have you discussed these otc meds with the doc dose he have any comments?

I will be back.  

 

I guess others are too busy with the new influx of people here usually there would be a mod her by now with input... somebody will come soon I am sure

be back soon. 

peace

ps what time of day do you take these otc meds and what doses?

is there a pattern of how your day goes... time wise... I am looking for a timeline in correlation to the otc drugs. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Do you think, as a general rule, 6-9 months is too late for RI?  I'm not at all close to considering RI, even in the worst hours, but I'm curious your opinion, btdt (and anyone else who wants to chime in.)

 

I am 'anyone else' and I'll give it a shot: you may want to read this topic:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to stop withdrawal symptoms

 

and not just Alto's first post but the responses. Very enlightening. In my case, I never considered it, cymbalta was just too horrid to come off and the interdose wd was bad too. I never knew what it was was making me sick when I missed a dose. Something to do with it being a SNRI?

[btdt]

• PSEUDOEPHEDRINE | C10H15NO - PubChem

  pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/pseudoephedrine

  •  

   

  InChI=1S/C10H15NO/c1-8(11-2)10(12)9-6-4-3-5-7-9/h3-8,10-12H,1-2H3/t8- ...... The elimination half-life of pseudoephedrine ranges from 3-6 or 9-16 hours  ...

there are various formulas 12 hr 24 hr reg

 

I wonder if there is any pattern in your symptoms with when it wears off

 

Diphenhydramine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diphenhydramine

•  
•  

 

The maximum recommended dose is 50 mg (as the hydrochloride salt), as mandated ....The half-life is as short as 8 hours in children to 17 hours in the elderly.

 

depending on when you dose ... you could be getting reactions from these drugs as in wearing off or updosing when there is still some active in your system. 

 

In a way you have managed to replace E... with like drugs it is interesting. 

 

Switching from E to another drug:  Effexor is made up of norepinephrine ( adrenaline)  and serotonin... taking an ssri will not cover the norepinephrine withdrawal and we all know serotonin drugs are not all the same there are few snris like Effexor and cymbalta is reported to be even worse than E for withdrawal... 

 

These things were on my mind. 

 

I have long thought these drugs may cause problems with the bbb as they cross it and I use to have the name of the part of E that caused this action but can't find it any longer. 

In crossing they they may be causing damage was what I thought... but I have found few things suggested in the repair and no research says there is damage

 

found this but it is all guessing 

The antiinflammatory tetracycline derivative, minocycline, is an inhibitor of MMPs with multiple actions, including antiinflammatory effects, and is well tolerated in low doses over long periods of time (Matsukawa et al, 2009). Minocycline reduced the BBB disruption in a pilot study of patients with relapsing-remitting MS over 24 months of open-label treatment. Despite a moderately high pretreatment relapse rate in patients in the study before treatment, no relapses occurred between months 6 and 24. The activity of MMP-9 was decreased by treatment (Yong et al, 2007). Patients taking 200 mg of minocycline for 5 days within 24 hours of an ischemic stroke showed an improvement in functional state and stroke severity over a period of 3 months compared with patients receiving placebo (Lampl et al, 2007). It has been used in the treatment of acute stroke to reduce early disruption of the BBB and extend the therapeutic window for treatment with tPA (Fagan et al, 2010). Larger, placebo-controlled trials will be needed to confirm efficacy of Minocycline in MS and stroke. Several MMP inhibitors have been tested and shown to reduce the opening of the BBB in stroke in animals, including BB-94, BB-1101, and GM6001 along with selective COX-2 inhibitors. However, none of these agents is suitable for clinical studies, and new classes of MMP and COX inhibitors are needed

 

as to how or even if it may relate to any of us

[OffEFFexor]

My doc thinks one of two things are happening with me.  He thinks what is most likely is that my original depression has recurred, and needs to be treated with an AD.  His second thought is regardless of the cause of my current symptoms, the suicidal ideation is a serious factor, and it should be treated, with an AD.

 

I reject his first point, but I appreciate the second.  Suicidal thoughts are a serious concern.  So far, I don't think mine have risen to a dangerous level, (they never persist more than a couple of hours, and they are nowhere near as powerful as I've experienced in the distant past when I was severely depressed.)  I don't want to bother going into depth on this, but I feel safe, and this is the primary use I am making of my doc, to monitor my suicidal thoughts and to be the phone number I call if needed.  And I have a safety net of family and friends who are helping me through this WD mess, and who are aware of my occasional suicide thoughts (as well as my history of depression in the past.)

 

And that is basically what it would take for me to consider an AD--if mere thoughts of suicide progressed to powerful, threatening suicidal ideation, which hasn't happened yet.  Or, if the WD symptoms persisted another several weeks at the level I've experienced.

 

I don't like talking about suicidal thoughts, especially when they are not current (like today.)  It clearly makes my doc uncomfortable, and I feel bad for him, but I remind him that is why I am paying him the big money.  More uncomfortable because I've refused his one tool he always uses for treatment.  It makes friends and family uncomfortable too.  But, it must be talked about.

 

cw, thanks for that thread.  I had read it previously, and just now I re-read it.  That thread, and nz1's comments over on the other board were key sources in my concluding that the risks of RI outpaced the odds of a good outcome.  My bias, to never again put an ssri med in my system again, is strong and gets stronger with every symptom I experience. 

 

The benadryl I take about an hour before I fall asleep, around 11pm or MN.  The sudafed in the morning with my other supplements, usually around 9 or 10am.  I can discern no pattern to my symptoms, relative either to these two meds or to anything else.  I've pretty much stopped looking to find any patterns, they just come and go, but the worst feelings don't last more than a few hours (while the HA and tinnitus and low energy are almost always there, but varying widely in intensity.)  Again, I'm not sure what I am going to do with these two meds, but I am having another really good day today, so maybe the window will continue to open and then I can toss them both. 

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

I just do not know what to say except this:

 

A various times during my recovery from CT of meds, I experienced extreme desires to 'end it all'. But never once did I ever think of meds as being the answer to this. I knew I would never have another recovery in me (sound familiar to 12-step?). I thought I was depressed before, the various times I went back to the doc and said I was depressed again. I have never known depression as black and deep as that which I experienced during this last year. I literally hung my head over my lap and the tears just squirted out of my eyes without any prompting every time I blinked.

 

They say (and I believe) that you just have to find a way to hang on. I had to use my mom as an excuse. I could not leave her to nursing home care. It passed but it was agony and it happened several times, I only noted the worst ones in my thread because talking about it did absolutely no good. But guess what - it passed! And if I can live through that I can live through it again. 10 times over. Because what came afterwards were some moments that have been indescribable. I found a quote passed along by GiaK about 'deliciousness' (it is in Muddle's thread somewhere recently), the deliciousness of life, I think. I will never be able to take meds for depression again. I got fooled, they don't cure depression, they just make you numb. I wasted 8 years of my life on the last bunch, with the 'modern one', cymbalta. It was awful getting clear of that SNRI.

 

 

 

Of course, ymmv. I think you've heard enough from me.

[OffEFFexor]

I saw the deliciousness of life quote, and I too loved it.

 

My saving grace, what has made my WD tolerable, is although I have had some moments of horrible depressive despair, they have not lasted more than an hour or two.  When I suffered my first major depressive episode, in my 20s, I would wallow in those depths for weeks at a time.  This WD has been difficult, but nothing like that horrible black hole of hopelessness. 

 

I have such sadness and empathy for you, and for everyone who has suffered like this.  I am grateful that despite how much my path has sucked in recent weeks, even including a little suicidal ideation, it could be so much worse; and it is so much worse for so many people.

 

You've said plenty, cw.  thanks. 

[westcoast]

OffEffexor, thanks for telling your story here. I was wondering if you have found anything research-wise that other doctors would believe about late-onset discontinuation symptoms like yours. Also, what led you to assign the responsibility for your  current and recent condition to Effexor discontinuation, rather than depression relapse as your doctor suggested? I know in my case it would be easy for a headshrinker to say I am in the depressive phase of bipolar, but I've never felt like this in my life, no matter how depressed I thought I was. (I'm a lot better this month, but was dealing with morning terrors, hopeless insomnia, and cosmic despair since getting off Effexor in late 2012. Initially upon discontinuation I was probably psychotic, too.)

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Just one more thing and this will just be between you and me (though everyone can see it). I cannot conceive of ever being able to taper that awful drug or any like it. Cold turkey was brutal, I could have died. But I am glad it happened that way. The brain zaps and every other lovely thing went on while the drug was leaving my system and I was sufficiently numb from years of use that I was 'cushioned' as it were. I am too old to get off a drug by tapering so from here on in it is ugly and beautiful life, whichever I happen to get, and no help from chemicals. (Except a little chocolate )

[Rhiannon]

 

Do you think, as a general rule, 6-9 months is too late for RI?  I'm not at all close to considering RI, even in the worst hours, but I'm curious your opinion, btdt (and anyone else who wants to chime in.)

 

I am 'anyone else' and I'll give it a shot: you may want to read this topic:

 

About reinstating and stabilizing to stop withdrawal symptoms

 

and not just Alto's first post but the responses. Very enlightening. In my case, I never considered it, cymbalta was just too horrid to come off and the interdose wd was bad too. I never knew what it was was making me sick when I missed a dose. Something to do with it being a SNRI?

 

 

If you do find you're seriously considering restarting an AD at this point, you might consider starting at a very low dose, much lower than your doctor would consider therapeutic. Like 10% of the so-called "therapeutic" dose. We have seen people respond well to very low doses, and you're probably really sensitized to these drugs now.

 

However, it's so typical to have this kind of worsening around three months to a year after getting past the acute withdrawal, it's just more withdrawal, and if you can ride it out, it will pass eventually.

 

I do totally relate to having a sort of "cut-off" point in your mind regarding extreme suicidality though. I have the same thing. Thank Goddess, I never get that kind of severe active suicidality any more, but I have experienced it in the past and even acted on it, long ago, and I definitely can relate. And if I was there again and I was certain that nothing but an AD would help, I would take one.

 

I would definitely try everything else first (exercise, lights, social support, diet, eliminating caffeine and alcohol, and just hanging in there day by day.)

[OffEFFexor]

Also, what led you to assign the responsibility for your  current and recent condition to Effexor discontinuation, rather than depression relapse as your doctor suggested?

 

The nearly constant headache and tinnitus.  These were features of my three-four week acute withdrawal, and they were not a part of my original depression.  Next, the rapid coming and going of emotional/mood symptoms, whereas in my old depression the feelings would go on for days and weeks w/o relief.  Finally, just a strong sense that this felt very different from my original depression. 

 

The best evidence I found was the fact that this was described by a few doctors (Healy, Breggin), several therapists, and ultimately by dozens of people here and on the pp website. 

 

The one fact that opened my doc's mind to the possibility that I was suffering from a prolonged withdrawal syndrome was my reminding him that such a long recovery course is typical for people addicted to benzos.  He is an addiction specialist; he has had many many patients like that, so it seemed reasonable that such a long process was possible for other drugs.  (Methadone also has a months-long withdrawal for some people.)

 

 

Just one more thing and this will just be between you and me (though everyone can see it). I cannot conceive of ever being able to taper that awful drug or any like it. Cold turkey was brutal, I could have died. But I am glad it happened that way.

It ain't over yet, but I kinda feel the same way.  I certainly felt this way after my acute withdrawal ended; three-four weeks of misery seemed well worth how good I felt during my summer window. Even when i feel bad now, I remember how good I felt, and I am happy to have that stuff out of my system.

 

This stuff can't last forever, and probably not much longer.  Gonna keep plowing ahead. 

 

 

 

 

 

[mammaP]

I'm glad that your doctor is starting to accept that withdrawal from these drugs exists, and wonder if

part of his acceptance is because you are a doctor yourself? Most doctors don't take us laymen seriously

because they think we know anything but as a colleague would be more open to listening to you. 

Please don't take this the wrong way because I don't wish withdrawal on anyone but I'm glad that you can

educate some of them from experience! Hope that doesn't sound insensitive? 

 

I was reading about the methadone programme here in the UK and it is the very same as we recommend, 

10% of the current dose every 4 weeks! If they can do that for methadone they should do it for ADs too but

first they have to accept that they are a problem. (sighs) 

[Songbird]

I was reading about the methadone programme here in the UK and it is the very same as we recommend, 

10% of the current dose every 4 weeks!

 

That's very interesting!

[OffEFFexor]

I'm glad that your doctor is starting to accept that withdrawal from these drugs exists, and wonder if

part of his acceptance is because you are a doctor yourself? Most doctors don't take us laymen seriously

because they think we know anything but as a colleague would be more open to listening to you.

I'm sure this is the case. 

[mammaP]

 

I was reading about the methadone programme here in the UK and it is the very same as we recommend, 

10% of the current dose every 4 weeks!

 

That's very interesting!

 

Forget that comment! I have been searching for the website where I read that about tapering methadone and can't

find it, all I can find now are 3-4 week tapers but I do know that some people are lowering their dose for a long time

so am a little confused now! It said that people would need to stabilise on methadone for 2-3 years before starting

to reduce the dose. I know I didn't imagine it, it was about long term heroin addicts. I will have to carry on looking

because I won't settle now until I see it again, then will post it in the media section. 

[OffEFFexor]

Some journaling today.

 

The last week has been my best since this big wave started in mid-September.  More good days than bad, periods of feeling good are better than earlier.  Actually have had a few hours at a time with no headache, and even an hour or so with no tinnitus.  This morning, for about five hours, I felt as close to normal as I have since I don't know.  Clear headed; no symptoms at all, complete absence of dread about the future, sense of depersonalization, just normal.

 

Sure enough, gradually the tinninus came in, then headache.  Some depressed thoughts and feelings flitting in and out.  But not too strong.  Then, after a few hours, these fade.

 

The pattern of coming and going is usual; the lower intensity of the symptoms, and the closer to my old sense of normal that the good periods feel like is the improvement.

 

On one hand, I am grateful for the few hours of feeling good; yet I know they will give way to symptoms as the clock ticks.  OTOH, the hours dominated by symptoms I know if I just hold on, they will fade in a few hours.

 

So weird, to swing back and forth like this.  But there is definite improvement over December.

 

I have a sister who had some trouble, and needed help.  I've been unable to give her much support over the telephone over the past weeks, (and I feel guilty for this).  Now, she needed in-person help, and that meant a ten hour drive.  At first I just apologized to her, saying I just could not make it.  But I decided to try, I was not sure how long I could drive at a stretch with the headache, and I was able to make it (with frequent breaks.)  Being able to do this made me feel better, but between fatigue and sleep disruption it was not easy.  Although I think such a trip would've been impossible a couple of weeks ago. 

 

I don't like posting about my status, good or ill, but I think it is useful, and I'm trying to do it.  I feel like a baby, because so many other people are suffering so much more than me.  And I hate whining and complaining, while I see the importance of acknowledging my symptoms.  So, that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Zenwind]

That's great you drove for 10 hours!!  I know how you felt before making decision to drive to see your sister.  When I was in my wave, it was always a debate of whether I should get up to go or to stay in bed.  I was so unstable and had a fear.

 

It's great that you did it.  

Wishing you more windows.  

[Ever]

OffEff - don't know how I missed your last post.    That sounded really good!   

 

I know what you mean about not wanting to post, either good or bad.   But it is really good to hear from you!  

[btdt]

A 10 hour drive wow I don't know that I would try that even now congratulations!  I tend to get lost a lot and one hour trips turn into 2 -3 hours due to sorting out the route.  Glad you made it and glad your doing better... this coming and going is just the way symptoms go...how we heal. 

peace 

[OffEFFexor]

I've been putting off writing a new post, but you two were nice enough to post on my thread.  Yeah, it was really good to be able to help my sister.  The good act plus the activity and getting out of my bed/apartment I was hopeful would give a boost to my getting out of this WD symptom rut.  And, the first three days of the past week were pretty good, had me thinking the window is opening.

 

However, on Thursday I had a horrible day, but in a very different way.  My usual headache/tinnitus/low energy/brain fog symptoms were absent.  Instead, I was depressed.  Deep, deep, no hope, complete despair depression.  This felt like the original major depression episode I first had decades ago, before prozac had been invented.  Just a horrific feeling, and unlike my WD symptoms, it did not abate after three or four hours, but it was all day and most of the night.  I cried more on Thursday than I have cumulatively in the last ten years.  (On effexor I barely cried, but during withdrawal, especially this four-month wave I've had dozens of crying spells, but nothing like Thursday.)

 

This felt so different than the depression feelings I've had off and on during WD.  Fortunately, this lasted about 20 hours, then lifted.  The next day, nearly gone.  So damn weird.  But it was so intense and powerful, I wondered how I ever endured this kind of depression for weeks on end. Then I remembered--a fifth of vodka a day.  Oh yeah, combination of alcohol and tricyclics got me through way back when.  While this was a big shock, I am so grateful this depression only lasted less than a day.

 

Fri and Sat were ok, typical WD days, then last night/this morning had a bad spell of very rapidly racing thoughts and fear/anxiety.  Around 9am I told myself the odds were by noon I would feel much better, and sure enough as has been the pattern of the last four months, this flavor of weird symptom abated, and the rest of today has been pretty good.  Clear mind, minimal HA and tinnitus, actually went to a friend's house and watched football.

 

So strange, up/down, back forth.  And this day of severe depression reminded me that I never felt that hopeless during the many years on effexor, as well as a reminder of how horrific my depression was decades ago.  I am choosing to interpret this return of my old dark friend/nemesis for a day is but a sign of further healing--maybe those particular circuits and connections were reformatted and fired up as part of the rebuilding process.  But to feel so horrible, then a few hours later to feel so close to normal is just bizarre.

 

Oh, my buddy btdt posted as I was typing, you too thanks for posting. 

[Ever]

OffEff - it's just withdrawal!   The depression!   Been there done that soooo many times.  And while you're in it, it seems IMPOSSIBLE to believe it's not back again yes?    But the fact that it's gone now shows it's just another stupid STUPID wd symptom.    Yes?   Really glad it's gone.   Woot woot!!!

[OffEFFexor]

Hey, if it had stuck around for much longer, I'd be begging for an ssri.  Or, nearly 20 years of sobriety would've be tossed aside. 

[btdt]

As the windows get longer you will gain more trust in the process itself...some times you will be tested more than a day so be aware it can happen. 

peace

[Ever]

What he said ^^^^^ OffEff lol.   Trust US - it really is a process.     lol

[OffEFFexor]

Had a couple of days that were ok, then something really weird.  I didn't sleep well, awakening every hour or so, and I was perceiving a powerful smell - that of smoked salmon.  I had eaten some while lying in bed a few days ago, so I thought it was possible I had dropped a piece near the bed that was getting rotten.  But, at the same time, I had a sense that this was a hallucination, despite feeling very real.  I also had a feeling of de-realization, almost like dreaming, which I experience for a short while on most nights.

 

Sure enough, I got up this morning, no scent at all.  Just sleep deprived, and a stronger headache than usual, louder tinnitus too, generally out of it all day long.  This process is really draining me, I feel like ability to be patient and tolerate these symptoms is weakening.  At the same time, I see so many people suffering so much more severe pain and symptoms than I, even though my hope and courage wanes at times, I am grateful I am not suffering worse.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Oh yes, there were many times that I knew I could not take one more day or hour or minute but somehow I hung on. Peeling and eating an orange, taking a short walk, having a good cry, looking at another dumb cat video on youtube, all of these things bought me more time. Then after awhile I started to feel better and the periods of despair weren't quite so deep.

 

Now they hardly come at all.

[brassmonkey]

Ah phantom smells, they can be so delightful. lol  I get those off and on, fresh cut tobacco, and I don't smoke.  There are several other rather unpleasant ones that show up from time to time too.  Interesting that it happened for you before a bad day, especially the headache and tinnitus.  I have read the phantom smells can be a precursor to migraines, could be they foreshadowed the WD problems.  Hope you're feeling better.

[OffEFFexor]

Thanks guys.  I wondered if it was some type of seizure activity, but the smell lasted for about five hours (each time I fell asleep and re-awoke).  I do feel a bit better, another strange day of WD.

[Zenwind]

Hi OffE, I used to have a laptop makes a loud noise few times a day.  I don't use it anymore since the beginning of last Dec. but I still hear the noise !!!   It's really wired.  I think the brain still remembers it and repeating the pattern.  

 

Brain can do some wired things.  

 

I feel the same way that you mentioned "my hope and courage wanes at times"  

Hope tomorrow is a better day for both of us.

 

 

[btdt]

Here is an idea for you ...

flashback.. I don't know the real definition of the work think i will look it up;

 re-experiencing of a past experience or elements of a past experience

The term is used particularly when the memory is recalled involuntarily, and/or when it is so intense that the person "relives" the experience, unable to fully recognize it as memory and not something that is happening in "real time".^[2]

 

^{Both of you two people said it was a memory of nothing to special eating salmon and a noise your old computer made...} 

^{So I think we can rule out any sort of "intensity" with either of these memories ...but why relive the experience or part of the experience.. why... and you do recognize it as a memory...} 

hmm 

something set a bit off in the flash back process by the drugs.. 

I wonder just an idea...

I have them all the time.

[westcoast]

Hi OffE, I was just re-reading your thread and noticed that you have trouble reading. I had that very badly until last fall. Reading had been my hobby, but during the drug and post drug years, I lost the interest, and then, it seemed, the ability. I also could not handle forms on the internet. I could read Twitter and anything short. It is much better now and I am back to reading again. No explanation other than the passage of time. I regained the ability before other symptoms began receding. I had a Kindle and searched Amazon for humorous books. Baby steps...