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The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization


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3 hours ago, powerback said:

Hi H well done on being drug free ,a mod would know more ,but I think I'm qualified being a member that's in protracted withdrawl ,I don't think theres anything unusual about going into another wave ,this process isn't linear ,it can be all over the place ,I suppose we just have to learn from each experience and get our toolkit together and ready for the next wave ,so many things can set us off into a wave .its best to learn what these stresses are and when your hit with the wave deal with it as best you can and be careful  being around triggers or places that make the wave worse .

we can also turn ourselves into a knot with worrying when the next one hits but watch out for this and try and relax as best you can and remember you will get through the wave as you did the last time and be ok .

Thanks PowerBack, I thought that the waves were supposed to get gradually better each time they happened but this one is starting to feel just as bad as the last one that I had. Pretty discouraging because I feel like I have made absolutely NO progress. 

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
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4 hours ago, Hellbutrin said:

Pretty discouraging because I feel like I have made absolutely NO progress.

 

That's actually a very common experience of waves, making you feel like you have made no progress. Have you read through the topic:

The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

 

The strange thing about waves is when you are caught up in the middle of one, it feels just as bad, if not worse than before. Its like they take away our ability to remember clearly or make good judgements. Its only when I'm out of the wave that I can see that it wasn't quite as bad as the last one, and certainly not as bad as when I was in acute.

I'm not a doctor.  My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one.

My Introduction Thread

Full Drug and Withdrawal History

Brief Summary

Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects

2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010

Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal

DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms

Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal)

May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins.

Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes

Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine

Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D

June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens.

Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered

Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days.

April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close.

VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from?



VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made?



VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes?



VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects?

VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes

 

 

 

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Hellbutrin , I went through a bad wave at 3 months then again at 6 months now I am 10 months and I have hit another wave so bad like you I have suicidel thoughts again and horrible anhendonia worse than 3 and 6 months , my waves are not getting any lighter just so much more intense , I hope this theory is right that these waves do get easier as I don’t think I can carry on much longer 

 

2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg 

jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine 

feb 2015 quetiapine stopped 

feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added 

feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg 

july 2015 citalopram stopped 

sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin 

jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped

jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine

march 2017 all meds stopped 

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46 minutes ago, Terry4949 said:

Hellbutrin , I went through a bad wave at 3 months then again at 6 months now I am 10 months and I have hit another wave so bad like you I have suicidel thoughts again and horrible anhendonia worse than 3 and 6 months , my waves are not getting any lighter just so much more intense , I hope this theory is right that these waves do get easier as I don’t think I can carry on much longer 

 

Hi Terry, 

im really sorry to hear that. I just feel like dying right now. It’s all I can do just to type this. How long do your waves last usually? Have you noticed your windows getting any better between your waves?

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
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Hi hellbutrin , I don’t get windows only brief periods of slightly better days but like you I about to give up hope I have never felt this bad ever 24 hours a day crushing depression just want a end , I have been feeling suicidal for 3 days solid now , can’t eat or sleep can’t do anything the thought that this wave could last for weeks is destroying me , I thought once I was of the drugs I would see some slight improvements but I have only got worse , I truly can not take much more of this it’s intolerable suffering it’s not a life it’s a death sentence 

2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg 

jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine 

feb 2015 quetiapine stopped 

feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added 

feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg 

july 2015 citalopram stopped 

sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin 

jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped

jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine

march 2017 all meds stopped 

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On 1/11/2018 at 1:39 PM, kesh said:

Anyone any thoughts about rapid wave/window patterns? I have gone from them lasting days to now lasting hours. From normal to horrendous, several times a day.

Yes, my waves will sometimes last for a few days up to a couple of weeks. Or I will have periods during a day where I feel like trash one moment and then slightly okay the next. It's bizarre, and the highs and lows almost make me feel bipolar. 

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
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On 1/11/2018 at 1:39 PM, kesh said:

Anyone any thoughts about rapid wave/window patterns? I have gone from them lasting days to now lasting hours. From normal to horrendous, several times a day.

Do your waves give you agitation that makes you feel like you want to crawl out of your skin?

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
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yes! Most of the time these days where ups and downs change 100 times are the beginning of feeling crappy all the time for a certain period of time. I think these short waves and windows are the most exhausting 

2005-2006: Cipralex 5 mg

2009-2010: Cipralex 5 mg

2012-2015: Cipralex 5mg, 10mg 

tapered 10mg-7.5mg-5mg-2,5-0 (I always waited for a few weeks on the current dosage until I felt stable. Steps were too big I realized too late)

Completely drug free since August 2015

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8 hours ago, Hellbutrin said:

Do your waves give you agitation that makes you feel like you want to crawl out of your skin?

Yes! My main problem is akathisia. I could cope totally with my other symptoms, which are low level anxiety and tinnitus. 

5 hours ago, Pepita said:

yes! Most of the time these days where ups and downs change 100 times are the beginning of feeling crappy all the time for a certain period of time. I think these short waves and windows are the most exhausting 

God I hope not. The only thing making akathisia tolerable is that it's gone by later in the day. The days it comes I wake up with it and at some point it gets replaced with a wave of exhaustion. 

Current daily meds. Citalopram 2.5mg morning. Diazapam 1.5mg evening, Propanalol 40mg split 4x10mg throughout day.

 

Recent meds. Fluoxetine 20mg began 24th Nov 2017, CT on 4th December on medical advice due to bad Akathisia. Citalopram 10mg began on 13th Dec 2017, tapered to 2.5mg by 20th Dec 2017 on medical advice. Diazapam 2mg began on 6th Dec 2017 cut to 1.5 mg on 26th Dec. Propanalol 40mg began on 13th Dec. Zopiclone 3.75 mg began 13th December, used maybe 5 times then quit.

 

Previous history. Tricyclics, Fluoxetine or Citalopram for periods of 6mo to 2yrs over last 25 years. Probably 5 yrs in total. No significant ill effects.

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1 hour ago, kesh said:

Yes! My main problem is akathisia. I could cope totally with my other symptoms, which are low level anxiety and tinnitus. 

God I hope not. The only thing making akathisia tolerable is that it's gone by later in the day. The days it comes I wake up with it and at some point it gets replaced with a wave of exhaustion. 

 

Doesn't have to be the same in your case at all:)))) I think that this only happens to me because this up and down is super exhausting and scary for me! Makes me fear the next wave and well... there it is:) but sometimes this wave only lasts 3-4 days then, doesn't have to be weeks/months of misery. I hope you will feel more stable soon!!!

Wishing you all my best,

Pepita

2005-2006: Cipralex 5 mg

2009-2010: Cipralex 5 mg

2012-2015: Cipralex 5mg, 10mg 

tapered 10mg-7.5mg-5mg-2,5-0 (I always waited for a few weeks on the current dosage until I felt stable. Steps were too big I realized too late)

Completely drug free since August 2015

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On 1/13/2018 at 9:35 AM, Terry4949 said:

Hi hellbutrin , I don’t get windows only brief periods of slightly better days but like you I about to give up hope I have never felt this bad ever 24 hours a day crushing depression just want a end , I have been feeling suicidal for 3 days solid now , can’t eat or sleep can’t do anything the thought that this wave could last for weeks is destroying me , I thought once I was of the drugs I would see some slight improvements but I have only got worse , I truly can not take much more of this it’s intolerable suffering it’s not a life it’s a death sentence 

Hi Terry,

 

How are you feeling now? Has the intensity of your wave lessened at all? I'm feeling a little better, but my depression is still just as bad is it was but I feel a little less manic about it now. The mornings continue to be brutal for me. But I'm hoping that will start to lessen as I come out of this wave. Have you noticed any improvements at 10 months out?

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
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Hi hellbutrin I’m sorry that you still feel this way , I am still stuck in the endless wave fighting the suicidal urges is hard for me but I live another day , I havnt noticed any improvements in the 10 months out but it’s still early days apparently, I’m glad you feel a little bit better that’s a start and I hope it continues . 

2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg 

jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine 

feb 2015 quetiapine stopped 

feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added 

feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg 

july 2015 citalopram stopped 

sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin 

jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped

jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine

march 2017 all meds stopped 

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I have reinstated after 4 months 

was on 45 mg remeron, helped rather quickly, but still feeling symptoms are unbearable, 

unbearable being want to lay down and convulse. 

If reinstating helped but maybe I need to go up a bit more maybe to 10 mgs would that cause problems?

benzos 2 mg from 2013-2015

tapered 2015-2017

put on 45 mg remeron 2013. -2015

to counterac the benzos, roller coaster of symptoms july 1 2017-

sept 15/2017 tapered remeron, too fast. Had to reinstate to 7.5 unbarable syptoms. Going slow this time, live and learn. 

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On 1/18/2018 at 2:47 PM, Terry4949 said:

Hi hellbutrin I’m sorry that you still feel this way , I am still stuck in the endless wave fighting the suicidal urges is hard for me but I live another day , I havnt noticed any improvements in the 10 months out but it’s still early days apparently, I’m glad you feel a little bit better that’s a start and I hope it continues . 

Hi Terry,

 

How are you feeling? Did you make it out of your acute wave?

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
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On 29/01/2018 at 2:07 AM, Hellbutrin said:

Hi Terry,

 

How are you feeling? Did you make it out of your acute wave?

Hi hellbutrin 

unfortunately nothing has changed still feeling bad and no let up in mental and physical symptoms , my pulsating tinnitus has seemed to have gotten louder which is annoying , 11 months of now but this wave has been the worst by far hoping for a break soon , how are you doing now 

 

2001 to jan 2015 Effexor 150 mg 

jan 2015 15 mg mirtazapine 20 mg quetiapine 

feb 2015 quetiapine stopped 

feb 2015 30 mg of citalopram added 

feb 2015 mirtazapine increased to 30 mg 

july 2015 citalopram stopped 

sept 2015 200mg of pregabalin 

jan 2017 mirtazapine stopped

jan 2017 20 mg fluoxetine

march 2017 all meds stopped 

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10 hours ago, Terry4949 said:

Hi hellbutrin 

unfortunately nothing has changed still feeling bad and no let up in mental and physical symptoms , my pulsating tinnitus has seemed to have gotten louder which is annoying , 11 months of now but this wave has been the worst by far hoping for a break soon , how are you doing now 

 

What month did the tinninitus start for you? How long have you been in a wave? I'm doing about the same, still agitated constantly with broken sleep. 

  1. Started Wellbutrin 75 mg IR the end of 2015.
  2. Tried quitting cold turkey in June 30th- July 3rd 2017.
  3. Had severe withdrawals.
  4. Was placed on Wellbutrin 100mg SR so I could taper without withdrawal.
  5. Stabilized on 100mg SR for most of the month of July.
  6. Started tapering on July 17th,  2017.
  7. Completed taper on August 8th, 2017.
  8. Currently experiencing severe withdrawal.
  • Symptoms- Currently experiencing anhedonia, depersonalization/derealization, concentration/memory issues, chronic congestion, chronic dry eyes, dry skin, dislocated TMJ joint from teeth grinding during C/T withdrawal, waves of depression, anxiety, nausea, morning cortisol spikes, insomnia, agitation, food sensitivities, no tolerance for caffeine and chronic fatigue, burning muscle pain in upper and lower back and occasional tinninitus.
  • Supplements- Omega-3 fish oil supplement twice daily, 100 mg of magnesium once daily. 
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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry if there is already a similar topic, just looking for others who may also experience these extreme windows and waves. 

 

When im in a wave it seems I’ll never feel better again, and like my windows weren’t real. 

Then when I’m in a window I feel so normal, motivated, almost good, and it feels like my waves are all done and they won’t come back. 

 

They are just so extreme. 

 

Can anyone else relate? 

Do they become less extreme? 

 

*Currently at 3.3mg off my 10mg pill of Paxil (they actually weigh 12.5mg) so I’m around 7.4 mg 

*No other supplements or vitamins 

*Taper schedule in the pdf 

Blank.pdf

 

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-5vShtJtwAOGA30OxIP87steLmMdFzD29F0fzAPD564

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VGT,

 

I found the existing topic and moved your post here.

 VIDEO:   Antidepressant Withdrawal Syndrome and its Management

 

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED:    (6 year taper)      0mg Pristiq      on 13th November 2021

Woohoo!!!  Finally off Pristiq    Post 0 updates start here

ADs since ~1992:  25+ years - 1 unknown, Prozac (muscle weakness), Zoloft; citalopram (pooped out) CTed (very sick for 2.5 wks a few months after); Pristiq:  50mg 2012, 100mg beg 2013 (Serotonin Toxicity)  Tapering from Oct 2015 - 13 Nov 2021   LAST DOSE 0.0025mg

My full tapering program     My Intro (goes to my tapering graph)    My website

PLEASE NOTE:  I am not a medical professional.  I provide information and make suggestions.  Please DO NOT TAG me - thank you.

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Greetings all. Hope this is the right place to post this :-)

 

I need some support today. Kind of a tough day :-(. My windows have been becoming longer and better so I’m super grateful for that but they might be evolving/changing. Wanted to check in with you all to see if you’ve experienced this. Here’s the deal:

 

My waves used to be super agitated, almost panicky, jump out of your skin uncomfortable. Today I’m not sure if this is a wave or not. It feels like a deep “down” depressive type heaviness. Has anyone experienced this “shift” in how waves feel? In a way I guess it’s maybe a good sign? Like my feelings are returning? Not sure how to read it. 

 

Any advice/input is welcomed. Just hurting today...really trying hard to shake it though. Keeping busy, visiting with people, etc. but that black dog is still there...

4 year journey off of ADs, finally antidepressant free since July 2021! Still in protracted withdrawal but getting better (still 'injured' and impatient but so grateful to be getting my 'self' back...slowly...)

 

12 years total of SSRIs and SRNI use then 7 month break, then Mirtazapine for sleep

  • Lexapro - 2005 - 2009
  • Effexor - 2009 - 2012 (tried to get off, tapered down, quit for a few weeks)
  • Pristiq - 2012 - 2014
  • Lexapro - 2013 - 2016
  • Buspirone - 2013 - 2018 (30-60 mg)
  • Klonopin - 2013 - 2018 (1-3 mg)
  • Abilify - 2016 
  • Remeron - 2016 
  • Cymbalta - 2016 (seemed to start working but GI side effects were horrible)
  • Celexa - 2017 
  • Pristiq - 2017 (few months, made me switch to generic - didn't "work")
  • Fetzima - 2017 (few months - kinda worked but anxiety literally drove me crazy - obsessive thoughts)
  • Trintellenix - 2017  (felt like a psychotic break, fast taper [too fast] ended November 15, 2017)
  • No ADs - 7 months free of antidepressants (very glad I did it, but no sleep was agony - so desperate I surrendered to Mirtazapine prescription)
  • Slow methodical taper off of Clonazepam (~2017 - 2018)
  • Mirtazapine - June 2018 to July 2021
  • Antidepressant free since July 2021!

 

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Dear Gregory, my mum experienced a very deep doom and gloom, and hopelessness and times. This came on and off for months. My mum feel fully recovered now! It was all worth is, she is so happy in her life (age 65) and she doesn't take any meds in any shape or form. Wishing you all the best in your journey to wellness. 

 

* January 2015 I'm supporting my mum age 63 through withdrawal. She has moved in with me and my family, cannot be alone or look after herself. Suicidal episodes, exhausted but unable to sit still, severe anxiety on an off, chronic diarrhoea and digestive issues, fear and gloom, very thin.

*1996 (?) Zoloft (minimum dose) for 15 years, minus 2 to 3 separate years that were attempted unsuccessful WDrawal.

*2010 Lexapro minimum dose for the past 4 years.

*Reduced Lexapro Oct 2013 (minimum dose) by skipping days over a 7 month period. Last med taken end of April 2014, 9 months ago. NO other meds. Initial diet was GAPS eased into a mostly Weston A Price Foundation diet. Supplement with wild fish oil, coconut oil, St Mary's thistle, 5 ml whisky/30 ml water (in emergencies), kefir, gelatine drinks and probiotics.

Aug 3 2015 update. Doing much better, still thin and poor appetite. Discovered decay in an old root canal filling. Removal in one week. Root canals are dangerous as they support pathogenic bacteria some of which are attracted to the brain. 

UPDATE May 2016 Mum's been living on her own in our country home since August 2015! This is huge considering its a big old house on a bush property with no close neighbours. Mum is doing very well, enjoying food and friends. She is now making plans to buy a home back in her own home community near her friends and family. Mum continues to pay attention to eating good wholesome foods and connecting with loved ones. Mum continues fortnightly psychotherapy with a private female therapist who doesn't support drug use. 

 

 

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Thank you so much Frances! That gives me hope. I need to hear that...

4 year journey off of ADs, finally antidepressant free since July 2021! Still in protracted withdrawal but getting better (still 'injured' and impatient but so grateful to be getting my 'self' back...slowly...)

 

12 years total of SSRIs and SRNI use then 7 month break, then Mirtazapine for sleep

  • Lexapro - 2005 - 2009
  • Effexor - 2009 - 2012 (tried to get off, tapered down, quit for a few weeks)
  • Pristiq - 2012 - 2014
  • Lexapro - 2013 - 2016
  • Buspirone - 2013 - 2018 (30-60 mg)
  • Klonopin - 2013 - 2018 (1-3 mg)
  • Abilify - 2016 
  • Remeron - 2016 
  • Cymbalta - 2016 (seemed to start working but GI side effects were horrible)
  • Celexa - 2017 
  • Pristiq - 2017 (few months, made me switch to generic - didn't "work")
  • Fetzima - 2017 (few months - kinda worked but anxiety literally drove me crazy - obsessive thoughts)
  • Trintellenix - 2017  (felt like a psychotic break, fast taper [too fast] ended November 15, 2017)
  • No ADs - 7 months free of antidepressants (very glad I did it, but no sleep was agony - so desperate I surrendered to Mirtazapine prescription)
  • Slow methodical taper off of Clonazepam (~2017 - 2018)
  • Mirtazapine - June 2018 to July 2021
  • Antidepressant free since July 2021!

 

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GregoryReboot,

I am experiencing similar things. It seems my baseline is getting better but I still have Windows, but mainly waves. They are not as bad. I have hope. I refuse to give up! We will make it!

 

 

Oct 2016. 20 years fluoxetine (20 mg) and bupropion (400 mg). Ceased fluoxetine without taper and bupropion after 4 wk taper. Initial extreme fatigue resolved into moderate fatigue and depression with occasional brain zaps and tingling skin.
Oct 2017. Anhedonia, 90% of my day. Occasional anxiety. Milder brain zaps. In past two weeks, 3 window days and 11 wave days.
May 2019. Anhedonia, infrequent anxiety, mild brain zaps. Sleeping 6 hours nightly after lifetime of 8 hours. Typical daily pattern is wave until late afternoon, window until bedtime. Occasional full day windows.
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi 
I have a question for those folks who are off all meds (and maybe others)

I got down to "zero" last October and have been doing incredibly well.

 

I do still have some small minor waves, most of them have been in the 'annoying' category.

Overall I feel like I'm almost completely recovered, but I can see how it may take several years to FULLY recover and get my brain back where it should be.

 

Recently I've been having trouble with anger spirals. It *seems* like the anger is bringing on a WD/recovery wave, with visual symptoms, and some tinnitus, maybe a tiny bit of dread and dark thoughts.

 

so I have been trying to avoid getting angry. Um, that does not work lol

 

one of the things I never really worked on while I was drugged, is how to deal with strong emotions. I can now handle sadness and anxiety pretty well, but anger- not so much.


I tend to say and do stupid things when I am angry.

Just now, someone was picking up my foster rats to bring them to the vet for their neuter. The rat already in her car was not safely secured, and she wanted to just toss my foster boys carrier next to theirs, in an even less safe spot.
I calmly asked if there was a way to move all the stuff she had in the seat, that the carriers were on top of, so that the rat's carriers could be properly secured. So that was good.. BUT
I blurted out, "these are living creatures, if you have to stop suddenly, they are going to go flying and get seriously hurt" and I said that in a pretty angry, frustrated, "are you an idiot??" kind of tone.

 

I wish I'd said it in a less hostile way, but then again, the driver didn't really do much to remedy the situation

 

I came back inside after she drove off, and realized that my vision had gone dark (an old WD/recovery symptom for me) and that I was feeling a bit of dread (maybe worried that this means a return to the more severe symptoms of early acute WD?)

 

so, now I"m wondering, is my anger a nuero emotion, or is my anger a stress that is brining on a wave?

 

I don't know how to tell.

I have been in a "bad mood" for a few days now, or maybe about a week, but not without good reason. A friend (not a close one) passed away, I found out some relatives that I'd lost touch with, had also passed away, not terrible news as we weren't even in touch any more, but sad nonetheless, I have a situation going on with the landlord and housing code that's very frustrating as well as the stress of the weather (unusually cold and snowy for his late in March)

 

I don't think my 'mood' is a symptom of a wave, but I wonder about the flare ups in anger.

I know I need to learn ways to handle angry, it's probably my biggest weakness.

I tend to avoid confrontations and/or give in a lot, and then resent it, and then that will build up, and then the next time something sets me off, I explode and say all sorts of stupid hurtful and especially NON HELPFUL things!
Like with the landlord- it will be a miracle now if I can get him to do the work I want done.

 

I have a couple of books about dealing with emotions and I'm doing my best to work on that by myself, if anyone has any suggestions I'm open to them

 

but in the meantime, what do you think: is the anger a symptom of a wave, or is it causing a wave?

 

 

  • pysch med history: 1974 @ age 18 to Oct 2017 (approx 43 yrs total)
  •  Drug list: stelazine, haldol, elavil, lithium, zoloft, celexa, lexapro(doses as high as 40mgs), klonopin, ambien, seroquel(high doses), depakote, zyprexa, lamictal- plus brief trials of dozens of other psych meds over the years
  • started lexapro 2002, dose varied from 20mgs to 40mgs. I tried to get off it several times. WD symptoms were mistaken for "relapse". 
  •  2013 too fast taper down to 5mg but WD forced me back to 20mgs
  •  June of 2105, tapered again too rapidly to 2.5mgs by Dec 2015. Found SA, held at 2.5 mgs til May 2016 when I foolishly "jumped off". Crashed in Sept, reinstated at 0.3mgs in Oct. 2106
  • Tapered off to zero by  Oct. 2017 Doing very well
  • Nov. 2018 feel 95% healed, current age 63 
  • Jan. 2020 feel 100% healed, peaceful and content 
  • Aug  2022 ❤️ loving life ❤️ 
 
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  • ChessieCat changed the title to Do strong emotions cause waves or are they caused by waves?
  • 2 weeks later...

When i get a window during my protracted amilsulpride stabalization fase(im stabalizing at 500 mg down from 800 mg 2 years ago)

When i get a window i feel really alive and happy, and then i get very optimistic about the future. I also get windows which feels like my brain is getting washed with a great sence of wellbeing.

 

When i get the waves i get moderately depressed, anxious and i get a wierd feeling of being bored. Hard to explain.

Between the waves and windows im affected by cognitive symptoms and poor sleep. Im trying to get stable and when i get stable i will work with a therapist i know who is really skilled at healping people reduce there dose at there own pace.

Hang in there guys and girls. Im 17 months in withdrawal and im having a wave right now.

Reduced the dose by 300 mg over the course of 27 months. Down from 800 mg amisulpride to 500 mg and in protracted withdrawal. Been in protracted withdrawal for 19 months. Its the only medication im on. I have been taking the drug for 10 years.

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  • 3 weeks later...

So very reassuring reading all these responses from those going through same  thing - windows and waves in protracted withdrawal  . But my doctor refuses to believe me . 

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Ask your doctor is he’s or she is willing to read the book “Psychotropic Drug Withdrawal” by Dr Peter Breggins? If no, find another doctor who either understands what’s happening to you or who is open to understanding. Took us a while to find a supportive understanding doc. My mums doc sounded very sociopathic to me. X

* January 2015 I'm supporting my mum age 63 through withdrawal. She has moved in with me and my family, cannot be alone or look after herself. Suicidal episodes, exhausted but unable to sit still, severe anxiety on an off, chronic diarrhoea and digestive issues, fear and gloom, very thin.

*1996 (?) Zoloft (minimum dose) for 15 years, minus 2 to 3 separate years that were attempted unsuccessful WDrawal.

*2010 Lexapro minimum dose for the past 4 years.

*Reduced Lexapro Oct 2013 (minimum dose) by skipping days over a 7 month period. Last med taken end of April 2014, 9 months ago. NO other meds. Initial diet was GAPS eased into a mostly Weston A Price Foundation diet. Supplement with wild fish oil, coconut oil, St Mary's thistle, 5 ml whisky/30 ml water (in emergencies), kefir, gelatine drinks and probiotics.

Aug 3 2015 update. Doing much better, still thin and poor appetite. Discovered decay in an old root canal filling. Removal in one week. Root canals are dangerous as they support pathogenic bacteria some of which are attracted to the brain. 

UPDATE May 2016 Mum's been living on her own in our country home since August 2015! This is huge considering its a big old house on a bush property with no close neighbours. Mum is doing very well, enjoying food and friends. She is now making plans to buy a home back in her own home community near her friends and family. Mum continues to pay attention to eating good wholesome foods and connecting with loved ones. Mum continues fortnightly psychotherapy with a private female therapist who doesn't support drug use. 

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

No doubt. I've been off of Lex for a little over 6.5 years and was in an extended window until now. I started to feel some undue health anxiety and boom! Just like that, I'm back in a wave. Stress & anxiety can cause waves. It's a vicious cycle. Good luck!

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  • Administrator

Merged similar topics.

 

MF3452, please start a topic for yourself in the Introductions forum.

 

Stress of any type can cause waves. Stress can also cause strong emotions. Strong emotions prior to waves may be coincidental, not causative.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just had a few weeks of a window. It was lovely. Looks like I’m entering a wave again now. I hate the false sense of hope and security you get during the window, then you wake up and bam! Waves coming. Makes the wave feel worse 😞 it’ll pass... 

Hi! I’m JustCope. 

 Currently tapering off 20mg lexapro. I’m about 10 weeks in and at 5mg- kinda fast I realise- stupidly listened to a GP who spoke to me for 5 mins about stopping lexapro. 🤕

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On 4/26/2018 at 4:27 PM, Altostrata said:

Stress of any type can cause waves. Stress can also cause strong emotions. Strong emotions prior to waves may be coincidental, not causative.

 

Stress can make everything worse, in my experience.  It's been unrelenting since I started on Zoloft in '93 which correlated with the neuromuscular / movement disorders and snowballed to many additional drugs and forced medical retirement 17 years ago.  Then, withdrawal from Pristiq in 2010-11 (sloppy taper) made things worse and is still strong, but I permanently lost major parts of life during drugged years.   

 

Eqqnok mentioned boredom.  This has been a constant battle for me since not working and especially since being pretty much homebound for several years. I believe it's tied into the loss of motivation and inability to connect to and anticipate feelings of pleasure and reward.  I wonder if it's some manifestation of akathisia, also.  It's BRUTAL.  

 

 

 

Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).

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Is there anyone else that have something i wouldn't call a window or a wave but being more stable without feeling good or bad? I'm having such a moment right now and it have lasted 5 hours so far and counting. My withdrawal depression wen't away little over 2 months ago and haven't returned. When i get a wave its usually an intens chemical burning and anxiety. Sometimes i don't understand how it really works, because im having a hard time feeling full after i eat because of the withdrawal. Its not like i have excessive hunger, its more like i can't feel full. So when i have eaten enough i have to say: Now i stop.

The best window i sometimes have is when my emotions are working near normal, i've had quite a few of these windows but they are a bit far between. When i get such a window i feel alive and feel like everthing is going to be okay and i have bright future ahead of me. When i get hit by a wave of anxiety i feel like im never going to enjoy being with my family, its

terrible.

Reduced the dose by 300 mg over the course of 27 months. Down from 800 mg amisulpride to 500 mg and in protracted withdrawal. Been in protracted withdrawal for 19 months. Its the only medication im on. I have been taking the drug for 10 years.

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Stress of any type can cause waves. Stress can also cause strong emotions. Strong emotions prior to waves may be coincidental, not causative.

 

This is the reason why I delay drops if there is a stressful period coming up. Well, I delay the drop if I can see the stressful period coming - you can't always, but sometimes.

2005 St John's Wort / 2006-2012 Lexapro 20mg, 2 failed attempts to stop, tapered over 4.5 months in early 2012

January 2013 started Sertraline, over time worked up to 100mg

July 2014 Sertraline dropped from 100mg to 75mg, held for six months, slower tapering until 2019 22 Dec 3.2mg

2020 Sertraline 19 Jan 3.1mg, 26 Jan 3.0mg; 1 Mar 2.9, 7 Mar 2.8, May (some drops here) 24 May 2.5, May 29 2.4, June 21 2.3, June 28 2.2mg,  July 4 2.1mg, July 24 (or maybe a bit before) 2mg, early Nov switched to home made suspension; 29 Nov 1.8mg; approx 25 Dec 1.6mg)

2021 Some time in about Jan/Feb realised probably on more like 1.8mg and poss mixing error in making suspension; doses after 10 Feb accurate; 10 Feb 1.6mg; 7 Mar 1.4, continued monthly

10% drops until 1mg, then dropped 0.1mg monthly.

May 2022,0.1mg, now dropping 0.01mg per week

My thread here at SA: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/1775-bubbles/page/18/

CurrentSertraline: 0.08mg / Armour Thyroid

 

 

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I pretty much jumped off my medication at 3mg, so my waves/windows have been pretty intense.

Windows: Usually last 10-21 days, the first week of this is usually merged with a wave, meaning my brain is still restoring itself after the spiral down. I find my sleep returns to a more normal baseline, the panic subsides completely, anxiety also goes. I will generally forget that I will get 'ill' again and carry on living as I used to. 

Waves: Usually last 7-21 days, vary massively intensity, in terms of anxiety/panic. A wave can be the result of an external trigger - worrying about something, usually the state of my mental health, or being over stimulated - watching an intense football game, arguement etc. During a wave my sleep is affected significantly, usually starting off by waking early, followed by anxiety. Then if that peaks i will struggle to fall asleep as my mind becomes 'on fire', and struggle to fall and stay asleep. Morning cortisol rushes become a daily thing, I can sometimes break this cycle by morning runs, but doesnt always work.

Started Sertraline August 2017 - 1 day - Didn't tolerate
Switched to Mirtazapine 1 day later - Worked very well..?
Took Mirtazapine for 6 months:

15mg for 4 months 

7.5mg for 40 days 

3.7mg for 10 days 

2mg for 7 days 

(Smaller doses were inaccurate, breaking pills up into segments just by eye)
Tapered completely off Mirtazapine in April 2018. 

 

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2 hours ago, Ox123 said:

I pretty much jumped off my medication at 3mg, so my waves/windows have been pretty intense.

Windows: Usually last 10-21 days, the first week of this is usually merged with a wave, meaning my brain is still restoring itself after the spiral down. I find my sleep returns to a more normal baseline, the panic subsides completely, anxiety also goes. I will generally forget that I will get 'ill' again and carry on living as I used to. 

Waves: Usually last 7-21 days, vary massively intensity, in terms of anxiety/panic. A wave can be the result of an external trigger - worrying about something, usually the state of my mental health, or being over stimulated - watching an intense football game, arguement etc. During a wave my sleep is affected significantly, usually starting off by waking early, followed by anxiety. Then if that peaks i will struggle to fall asleep as my mind becomes 'on fire', and struggle to fall and stay asleep. Morning cortisol rushes become a daily thing, I can sometimes break this cycle by morning runs, but doesnt always work.

Hi there - I also always experience this sort or "merging" from wave to window where I really feel like my system is recovering from the wave. And I know too well that I tend to forget that I could ever feel this bad again. Oftentimes I ask myself 3 days after a wave is over: WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT??? How could I ever feel this way? Luckily I do have longer windows now that I am 2,5 years off meds. Windows can last up to 7 months. Not that everything is pitch perfect in this time but pretty normal. I´ll have maybe a few days where I feel more tired/anxious/sad but nothing that I can´t handle or that prevents me from going on with  my life -  and it passes quickly. Hopefully everything will even out for you soon :)))) 

2005-2006: Cipralex 5 mg

2009-2010: Cipralex 5 mg

2012-2015: Cipralex 5mg, 10mg 

tapered 10mg-7.5mg-5mg-2,5-0 (I always waited for a few weeks on the current dosage until I felt stable. Steps were too big I realized too late)

Completely drug free since August 2015

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11 hours ago, Pepita said:

Oftentimes I ask myself 3 days after a wave is over: WHAT THE HELL WAS THAT???


Yep!! I've even laughed during a window at how severe I let myself get.

How do your waves arrive? I've noticed most of mine are quite sudden, usually the external triggers precede the most lethal waves. I can recall waves trigger within seconds while I'm in a window. Kind of like the feeling you'd get if you'd just heard some really bad news, but it doesn't get processed and just mutates into a totally different beast. Usually completely psychological too, which is confusing my therapist. He doesn't understand how I can trigger these waves with no physical symptoms, since im using the words 'panic' and 'anxiety attack'.

 

Started Sertraline August 2017 - 1 day - Didn't tolerate
Switched to Mirtazapine 1 day later - Worked very well..?
Took Mirtazapine for 6 months:

15mg for 4 months 

7.5mg for 40 days 

3.7mg for 10 days 

2mg for 7 days 

(Smaller doses were inaccurate, breaking pills up into segments just by eye)
Tapered completely off Mirtazapine in April 2018. 

 

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On 6/27/2018 at 12:58 PM, Eqqnok said:

Is there anyone else that have something i wouldn't call a window or a wave but being more stable without feeling good or bad? I'm having such a moment right now and it have lasted 5 hours so far and counting. My withdrawal depression wen't away little over 2 months ago and haven't returned. When i get a wave its usually an intens chemical burning and anxiety. Sometimes i don't understand how it really works, because im having a hard time feeling full after i eat because of the withdrawal. Its not like i have excessive hunger, its more like i can't feel full. So when i have eaten enough i have to say: Now i stop.

The best window i sometimes have is when my emotions are working near normal, i've had quite a few of these windows but they are a bit far between. When i get such a window i feel alive and feel like everthing is going to be okay and i have bright future ahead of me. When i get hit by a wave of anxiety i feel like im never going to enjoy being with my family, its

terrible.

Thats your normal feelings. The window to me feels like the being on the original drug but not as strong

2009-2010 Citalopram 20mg CT no problems

 

Sertaline 2010- 6monnths

 

2011- 2017 June 2017- Citalopram 20mg CT

 

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