lapd: Haldol withdrawal and brain damage

[dalsaan]

Hi Lapd

 

How are things for you now? Have you had a chance to try the magnesium and fish oil that Alto mentioned. Both of these have helped many people without too much risk of adverse effects. Do you have any other strategies? Maybe we can work through some together

 

Dalsaan

[Pugknows]

LAPD, how are you doing today?

[JanCarol]

Hey Lapd - I got the wrong links to you for a hotline.  Please consider this:  http://www.suicide.org/international-suicide-hotlines.html

 

Also - I have great compassion for you as I have dear friends on the same or similar drugs to what you were on.  And the sad part is - how do you taper an injection?

 

Would it be possible for you to go on tablets - a smaller dose than you were on - and start a taper from there?  There is hope, I have seen people come off of these drugs, and find themselves again.  I know it is hard, and it seems impossible - but it is possible to do.

 

I know, you just got the drug out of your system, but in my experience, that is exactly when the hard stuff begins.  It's not like aspirin, because it restructures your brain.  Without the drug, your brain falls apart, like a vine without a trellis (that's Rhi's metaphor), and establishing a small amount of the drug gives your brain a bit of structure to rebuild from.

 

The brain is amazingly neuroplastic.  Norman Doidge wrote a book about "The Brain That Changes Itself," and there are people in that book with half their brain removed who can function normally.  My husband had a stroke that took out a golf ball sized hole in his brain, and he gets along quite well. 

 

This can be just the beginning, if you choose it to be.

[lapd]

Hey everyone, I'm still here, surviving somehow. I've tried supplements but they don't help at all in my case. The thing is Haldol is an antipsychotic, not an antidepressant so I've never felt good while on it, it was a torture for me since the first injection and it just continues now. I've become extremely numb and antisocial, my motivation and hobbies are gone, I lack the willpower even to undress before bed, all the sounds are extremely annoying to me, even my favourite music, I feel stripped off everything that made me a human being, it's just awful. I don't know how I'm going to get back to what I was as I've already become another person, not what I used to be. Scared of lights, sounds, lacking any kind of drive or affect, and my body is messed up heavily. I have no idea how to get the testosterone production back as it is shut down now, no idea how to restore my muscles or get rid of those horrendous jerks all over my body. I just twitch really hard whenever I touch anything, same with loud sounds and all that. And I used to be a bass-head, loving heavy bassed music that got me really going. Now it's all just gone, I feel extremely shallow and impaired. I see nothing in life to look forward to, I've become a fat sexless slob with no desire for anything, money, music, going out, you name it. I'm still suicidal and nobody can help me with it as nobody really sees the extent of damage done to my mind, perception, body, I'm just lacking the courage to go through with it.

[JanCarol]

Hey lapd, good to see you!  I'm sorry you are having such a rough time.

 

you said:

 

 

 nobody really sees the extent of damage done to my mind, perception, body, I'm just lacking the courage to go through with it

 

That is where you are wrong.  I never got any good out of antidepressants, either, they only hyped up anxiety and hallucinations for me.  While you are the first person I've come across here who has had injections, there are plenty of folk here who have been prescribed those "anti-psychotics," (we prefer to call them neuroleptics, for their brain-disabling capacity).  And there are many who have come out the other side.  So there are people here, in SA, who understand what you are going through.  Please feel free to talk to us.

 

I haven't done it personally, but I have very close friends and family who have experienced these neuroleptic drugs.  (I was only on a bit of quetiapine for sleep, that doesn't really count).  I know what it's like to hold them as the doctor CT's them off of one and puts them on another, and the weight gain, blank stare, tardive dyskenesia, akathisia, shaking and suffering took place.  So I do know about the pain you are in - I just haven't had it myself, only my loved ones.

 

My first thought with the injections is "forced treatment."  I hope this was not the case for you, that you don't have that additional trauma to deal with. 

 

The problem with injections, is you cannot taper off of them.  Can you get tablets and reinstate a small amount, maybe 5 mg, to take the edge off your symptoms?

 

What supplements have you tried?  How long did you try them for (it takes more than a week for fish oil to work, more like 3 weeks)?  What happened?

 

Also - most of us in withdrawal cannot do heavy exercise.  Maybe lighten up on the training for awhile - you'll be back at it before long.  But your brain requires a LOT of energy to heal, and right now there isn't much left over for your "normal life," like working out, or even sex.  Please be kind to yourself, and allow your brain to do what it really wants to do - heal.  These manifestations and horrible feelings, and physical problems are your brain's way of trying to find a balance - to heal.  Like a pendulum swing, it starts out extreme at first, but gets better as you go on, until balance is achieved.

 

The best healer of all is TIME.  It takes time.  And so - you may need to distract yourself while you wait.  What do you like to do (besides heavy workouts?)

 

Is there any local help that you can get which won't end up with more heavy drugging?  

People close to you who can help you through the rough times?  A counselor to help you make the changes you want to make in your life?  Even group support is better than just being alone.

 

You are not alone, there are people here who understand, more than you know.

 

I'm glad you came back to us.  

[Blackstar]

Glad to know you're still here, lapd. As I said I haven't found a solution, but if I find anything that works I will let you know. The only hope as others have said is to wait it out and try and be as proactive as possible.  Even though it feels hopeless, I think it's the only hope.  The worst part for me, as you said, is that it looks as if there is nothing wrong to others, including doctors.  But inside, it feels like your whole world is upside down.  I have problems with every single symptom you describe and then some.  On a neurological exam nothing shows up as I'm not visibly shaking, so they brush it off. But i feel like i'm shaking inside 95% of the time.  I just feel very weak.  It's like there is a barrier between you and the rest of the world and you're just not connected.  It feels like being a prisoner in your own mind, seeing time fly by for the rest of the world and unable to take part. Even though I'm not religious all I can do is pray for all of us that this eventually passes.  I too consider suicide many many... many times and I hope it doesn't come to that as i don't want to do that to my family and I don't want to leave that legacy for myself.  It's important to see that you or I or anyone going through this problem doesn't actually want to die.  We want to get through it.

 

 I myself am doing almost nothing all day.  And it certainly can't be making the situation any better.  I right now have the option of either going back to school in a few weeks (if i am approved for the loan) or moving to another country to work.  I'm split about the decision but the only conclusion i have come to is to physically remove myself from a situation where i am inactive and isolated (here and now) and place myself in a different environment.  I don't expect it to solve my problems but I hope to get a little bit of relief.  A clean slate of sorts.   Maybe you should look into something similar.  How are spending your time these days?  What's your living situation?  

[lapd]

  JanCarol, unfortunately for me it was forced treatment, frankly I feel raped and betrayed by my own family, that surely doesn't help. I didn't even have voices, hallucinations or strange beliefs, just had a quarrel, that was enough to get me locked up. As for reinstating the med, I never felt good on it, since the first injection it was torture for me, unbearable, I felt like my brain was dying. It was such a dreadful feeling, I'll never touch a neuroleptic again.

 

  As for support, I find it hard to talk to people now, even friends, it just feels tiresome to force words out. I force myself to type to describe my experience, but that's it. I don't really have anyone close since I have very bad feelings for my family now, almost disgust, I know it's wrong but I can't really do anything about it, I just don't love them or care about them anymore. As for friends I now feel extremely distanced from them, all I can think of is how bad I feel, I can't really enjoy a beer with them or go out as again it feels like a burden for me.

 

  I've tried fish oil and a multivitamin for 4 weeks, they do nothing with the tremor, impotense or damaged comprehension.

 

  Blackstar yeah, I feel like nobody should experience what we experience, frankly I'd better do 2 years in prison than feel all that now. The weakness is really horrendous, that alone makes me feel like a disabled person. I feel you with not wanting to die, I constantly think of how life was a good thing with good and bad times, but now it's so defferent I'm not even sure it can be called life. Another bad thing is that I've always been an idealist and kept everything top notch in my life, trying not to compromise and do my best, and now I'm at the bottom, worst case scenario. I think going to school or working would be beneficial, but in my case it didn't work.

 

   I just graduated from a uni with a finance degree, had several internships earlier and now I was expected to get into corporate world. That is just off limits for me now. I tried a job at a small accounting company but basically was kicked out cos my memory is screwed and I just couldn't make it to work some days, something that I never thought was even possible in my life. The living situation is aweful as I'm on no disability and I'm expected to work now as the financial situation is tough in the family. Instead of that I just lay in bed all day, smoking 2 packs of cigs a day and forcing myself to play videogames (something I've outgrown long ago) to distract myself in what I think is the only possible manner. Whenever I don't play or browse forums I sadly find my mind wandering back to suicide...

[lapd]

Also I've found a guy who was on antipsychotics for a while, he shared some information with me. Basically he says he felt aweful for 1 year, all he did was smoke - eat - sleep. After two years he still can't really enjoy music - something that's probably gone forever, or any recreatinal drugs including alcohol and tobacco. Libido doesn't really come back, but he can achieve an erection during sex. But after 2 years life has become tolerable for him. But again he says it depends on the individual, the dosage, the type of medication.

[Pugknows]

LAPD, you'll heal. The brain's an amazing thing. You don't have a terminal disease. It just feels like it now. One shot is not enough to damage you for life. Your CNS is skwonky right now. You'll heal soon.

[Blackstar]

Yeah.. there are so many problems that going to a doctor and listing them all just makes you look like a crazy hypochondriac.  And funny (well not really) that you mention that you'd be better off in prison.  I'm not going to go into detail about some of the options I've considered because people will just see me as completly insane, but prison was one of them. Yep.. it's just a hard one to swallow as I also come from a respectable family that expects success.

  I know what you mean about the suicide cloud always returning unless you are always distracting yourself.  Youtube is my best friend these days.  I did the video games thing for a couple months and i got sick of it, but hey maybe you have some pretty good video games!  I've researched all the suicide methods and have knowledge in physiology so I know how to end my life painlessly if i want to.  I may be disliked for saying this but I think that it's valid to realize (as a harvard psychiatrist has said) that suicide is indeed an option and a personal choice.  But lets see if we can work and find a solution NOT to kill ourselves. To somehow make life bearable and manageable.  We do owe it to ourselves to try with all our strength.  Cuz once you are gone, that's it, sayonara.  I've spoken with people who have been clinically dead and they say there is nothing there.  It's just lights out.  One guy did believe in god, but not after that! It's kind of like a dreamless sleep.  Yeah, I'll admit, in this state of mind that sounds like a welcome prospect most times.  But if I can somehow go back to being mostly the person i was, I will take that instead. If i have to wait it out in agony for another 5 years in order to get there, i'll do my best to get through. If i am still suffering after that and it doesn't get better, there is always the option of saying bye bye.  That option is always there.  But once you are gone, the option of coming back isn't.  And remember, killing oneself is alot more difficult than it seems.  Taking that final step, whether through drugs or physical trauma is next to impossible unless completely determined. People who have thrown themselves from heights and survived all said they immediately regretted doing it as soon as they jumped. Something to keep in mind.  Im telling you this not only to hopefully help you but to also help myself.  

[JanCarol]

Oh lapd, I'm sorry.  I was afraid that the drug was forced on you.  I know it didn't feel good - but the dose I suggested is so tiny, that you won't feel the side effects like before.  But you would have to go to a doctor to get that - and that's pretty scary, eh?

 

Video games are great.  When I can't do another thing, I can always play a stupid video game.  I play the "fake" ones on Facebook, it sounds like you enjoy the real ones.  I have a brother who is a professional gamer.  Well, he works for a living, but really the only reason he works is so he can stay current on equipment and software and video games.  Nearly all of his friends are "in the game," and they haul their computers together for big all-weekend gaming sessions.  So - for some it is a hobby.  Don't think of it as wasting time!  Just think of it as passing the time until you feel like doing something else!

 

It's okay to go back on the fish oil, it takes a few weeks to start working - and you may NEVER feel the difference.  If you don't get side effects from fish oil, please take it.   Omega-3 fish oil

 

A multivitamin can cause more problems than it solves.  We don't recommend taking "combinations" or "formulas" with lots of ingredients, in case you have a reaction.  

 

Magnesium will help speed your brain healing, but do not use magnesium oxide.  It is as effective as chewing rocks, for absorption.  Get a chelate of some kind, like Magnesium glycinate.  Start with a small amount, like a half tablet at night, to ensure that you won't react to it.  If that goes well, build up to a whole tablet.  Personally, I take 3 tablets a day (275 mg), plus Epsom Salt or Magnesium Chloride baths, or magnesium chloride oil that I put directly onto my skin.  It really is miraculous stuff - and if you feel nothing - keep taking it, it will help, even if you cannot feel it.

Magnesium

 

The next thread, I haven't read yet, but a lot of people have claimed that it helps them.  Please see:  Change the channel - dealing with cognitive symptoms

 

Most of all, be patient, be gentle with yourself.  This is especially hard for a young male to do.  Men like ACTION, and young people want it NOW!  This is not helpful.   And triply hard for you when you consider the anger you must feel for what was done to you.  I'm so sorry that this has happened. 

 

But Pug is right:  you will heal.  It will just take time (and patience).

[dalsaan]

Hi lapd, 

 

Jancarol has given you some good advice and I agree with Pug.   You will heal.  

You have one thing very much in your favour - youth.  You brain has a much greater 

capacity to bounce back given you are 22.   

 

Please don't invest a lot of emotional energy into thinking this is permanent.   Its not and 

the less stress you put onto your system the better.

 

Its devastating that these drugs were forced on you.  You deserved more respect and support.

We are here to offer you both.

 

Please let us know how you are getting on.  You and your welfare are important to us.

 

Dalsaan

[lapd]

I still feel horrendous, every little moment I realise that mu current conscioussness is different from my normal cnscioussness, I experience reality differently. And every small moment I'd rather be dead than experience it. Death has always scared me but now it's something desireful. Earlier I had desires to find a grilfriend, to live in my own appartment etc., now I just wish for death. It is extremely painful to see the world not the way you used to, especially if it's vision is so much worse. I can't just imagine how I will recover if I always have a constant deathwish now and I don't feel any empathy towards the people I used to love. If my dog dies I wouldn't shed a tear, wouldn't feel anything at all. I feel devoid of all things that made me human. That's the opposite of Nirvana, I'm devoid of any passions or desires but it feels as unnatural unnormal, drastic as it gets. It's like an ugly experiment has been carried out on me, something that should not happen to a human-being. I don't really know how to live ike that, I feel like I've never lived the 22 years prior to this.

[Blackstar]

lapd, yesterday i got prescribed some clonazepam and am happy to report that it has noticeably taken the edge off this horrible state.  It's not a cure but i do feel easier and my brain is not feeling so 'taxed'.  

 

how is your appetite? 

sleeping?

[lapd]

lapd, yesterday i got prescribed some clonazepam and am happy to report that it has noticeably taken the edge off this horrible state.  It's not a cure but i do feel easier and my brain is not feeling so 'taxed'.  

 

how is your appetite? 

sleeping?

My appetite is ok but I can't really taste the food as I used too, I can no longer distinguish complex taste patterns, everything is pretty much the same and flat in terms of flavour to me.

My sleep is not so good, I don't really sleep deep, EVERY night I got vivid dreams, which feel much more alive than real life. I wake up kinda exhausted cos of the dreams.

Tobacco, nicotine - still no effect, I just don't "feel" them like I used to. Even tried some THC and I didn't feel any warm, pleasant feelings at all.

The most worriesome thing is it constantly feels like my perception of the world is changed, I see, feel and experience the world differently from how I used to.

Do benzos help with that somehow?

[Blackstar]

Well, they do seem to help a little bit.. it seems to calm me down a little so that i'm not constantly worrying about feeling like this.  I'd say a small improvement of 15 -20% maybe.  Mind you i've only taken them for two days now.  Taking benzos may be a slippery slope as one can become dependent on them and then getting off them could just add to the agony.  Realistically though, it may not even be an improvement, but rather just feels different.  And as you know, almost ANYTHING other than this is a welcome prospect.  It has helped me sleep calmer in the last couple days, and when I wake up I feel as though i've gotten a more calmer, deep sleep, but after i wake up, like now, the feeling and scary perception is starting to creep back in.  After being like this for a while, I'm starting to think that this altered perception of the world may actually be fear.  I myself know all the mental health information quite well, but recently I watched an interview with David Letterman talking about his depression. And he said that (I assume his psychiatrist told him), that if people didn't have serotonin, norepinephrine, and dopamine in their brain, that the world would scare the **** out of them.  To me it seems like this might be the problem and I think I (and you and everyone else suffering from this) may have chronically low levels of these neurotransmitters.  Although I think it's low dopamine that's the culprit here.  Of course I am not an expert and I can't say this is for sure, but if you look up symptoms of dopamine deficiency, you will see that most or all of the symptoms for it might match what you are experiencing.  All I really wanna do is just go to sleep and never wake up but even that scares me for obvious reasons.  I simply do not want to interact with the world at all, I no longer see any benefit or pleasure in it.  And after a while of this, you see other people as different than yourself, and thus you see that it's you that's different.  You are dead on that the scariest part is the altered perception of everything.  I actually have a very difficult time eating, and most days I can't muster 500 calories into me.  Food simply feels uncomfortable, almost nauseating to force into myself, like i was eating cardboard.  

 They say that dopamine deficiency depression is feeling like you want to die but not having to energy or means to do it.  So a bit like being stuck between a rock and a hard place.  Or a prisoner of your own mind, as i like to say.

  I also smoke a lot, because i don't knwo what else to do.  It's to the point where i need to quit as it impedes my breathing. But i can't seem to stop, and i've always been able to kick smoking cold turkey, no problem.  You're' right, it has no effect, and I don't know why i do it, or why i can't stop.  I knwo partly that i'm using it to quell this nervous, pacey, anxiety feeling, and i've probably established an addictive loop in my brain where i just run to smoking when im experiencing this dreadful feeling, which is pretty much all the time.  

[lapd]

Blackstar, it's scary how precisely you describe how this feels. Chemical torture, isn't it? Feels like you've already died but somehow left to operate with a dead body. I feel like the world should know about it. It's like the most horrendous state of mind in the world comes from something so casual as prescribed pills.

[bluebalu86]

lapd, good to see you're still here. We will heal. But it will take a lot of time. We have to sit tight and let this thing run its course. Suicide is always an option, but it's the last option one should consider. It's not worth it to die over this if we can heal, even if it is after years in agony. This hell will not be permanent. I agree with what Blackstar said.

[Blackstar]

It is scary.  I also feel that the world should know about it.  The awful thing is that i've tried to tell people, and they simply cannot register it.  Not even the doctors.  Let alone family and friends.  All they can offer is sympathy, a pat on the shoulder and "we're here to help", "it will get better" phrases.  And their idea of getting better is just to tell me that i have to start doing things, going for walks, interacting with people, finding a job.  They cannot process the fact that nothing gives me any pleasure, satisfaction, or benefit.  They just can't process it in their head, and I've given up on talking about it because if i keep talking about it, i'll just be that guy who complains and looks like he feels sorry for himself and is being a baby.  As men, we are expected to just man up and do what needs to be done.  If you don't do that, the world tends to **** on you.  Everyone including the people closest to you.  The problem with being in this state is that as you know *nothing* really matters.  The idea of walking up to a woman and trying to spark attraction no longer gives me any pleasure or gives me drive.  And I used to be quite good at this area in my life.  Right now I walk around like a disgruntled, empty shell, where i see and recognize what's going on, i still seem to have my perception but i have zero fuel in my tank, if you will, to do anything about it.  I want to care so bad, but I don't have the ability to.  

[bluebalu86]

I am very scared too. To be honest, I'm thinking a lot about suicide, but I don't want to do it if there is a chance that I will heal. It will break my parents' hearts. I haven't even started tapering yet as I'm so unstable. I don't feel normal and like myself. Everything is so surreal. I could deal with that, but the feelings of dread and terror are overwhelming. It's really scary. I wish I could push a button and somehow be back to my normal self... Maybe with time? I hope the brain heals. That's my greatest hope in the world. 

[Blackstar]

I try not to blame others for not understanding.  Before this happened, I too probably wouldn't have understood if i person came to me with these problems.  Because when you are feeling normal, and have normal feelings, urges, drives, can get to bed restfully, and have a calm laid back perception of the world, it just makes no sense that someone would be unable to feel satisfaction and purpose from anything, and it would be impossible to imagine these types of perceptions as it's simply a world you've never experiences and don't even know it exists.  The old adage, 'you don't know what you don't know".  

  What does frustrate me though, is the psychiatrists and doctors, who deal with people on a regular basis that tell them about this and have the evidence spewed in their face all the time, yet they rationalize it as something different.  To them it could not POSSIBLY be the drug that they dispensed that CAUSED the damage.  That's what they think.. that's what they HAVE to think, because they wouldn't dare have THEIR minds fucked with.  I would love to take a bunch of psychiatrists and pump them full of haldol, compazine, olanzapine, and other antipsychotics and watch their lives fall apart.  

  It's sad that i have those thoughts, as I'm not naturally a malicious person. 

[bluebalu86]

I have similar thoughts and I consider myself to be a good person. I think it's natural for us to feel this way, we have suffered so much because of these doctors. 

[lapd]

Blackstar, bluebalu86, you are right, it's just scary. It's like somebody put a concrete wall out there and it blocks the world from you. All you can do is watch but you can't experience it. I also remember a cig would always provide a relief when you're stressed. I guess the urge to smoke is basically the urge to reconnect to that feeling because being under so much unrecognized stress from this condition. Yet it doesn't rpovide that relief anymore.

[bluebalu86]

Yes, it is extremely scary. But we have to accept that situation and find a way to survive and function as best as we can in this weird and very unnatural state/condition for as long as it takes. Healing will come, but we need to be alive to experience it. We have to survive this.

[Blackstar]

Again it is scary, that you describe it exactly the same way lapd.  I believe in other threads (maybe other boards) I've described it as there being a "brick wall" between me and the world.  And there's certainly a brick wall between me and the doctors especially - the only people who are supposed to be able to help with this.  They somehow don't believe that what we are experiencing is a valid condition.  Partly because it's not documented enough in the literature so to them it means "ok this person is making no sense" and they come to the conclusion that the solution is to go back on the medication or up the dose.  A brick or concrete wall is a very good analogy because to us it's clear the doctors are obviously ignorant and uneducated on the problem, and to them we just seem like crazy people who are unwilling to 'accept' the medications that they are convinced are the answer.  Of course, them being the doctors the world will take their view as the truth. Even though we tell them the medications don't work and in fact damaged us, it somehow goes in one ear and out the other.  My doctor two days ago actually said to me "I know that you don't believe that these medications work" and i said to him "dr, it's not that i consciously choose to not want to 'believe' that they work, it's that i've taken them and they did nothing but make my life miserable".  He ignored my comment and started asking other somewhat unrelated questions.  

 A few months ago when i couldn't sleep and zopiclone didn't help at all, my psychiatrist told me to try MELATONIN.  I nearly laughed and said, "i've tried it and doesn't work. And what makes you think that melatonin will work when zopiclone didn't?" Melatonin is like salad dressing compared to zopiclone.  Even though I know that she knew i had a point, he answer was that "well if you don't believe that the medication is going to work then it wont".  I nearly jumped across the room and strangled her.  As if SLEEP works like that.  When being up for days suffering without sleep, the reason i can't is because I don't "believe" in my medication?  What an immature moron, and a total copout comment to just make her feel that she is right and i'm wrong.  Totally unprofessional and immature. And this woman is payed 200 grand a year to "help" people. 

That's that WALL that exists.  It's like we're trying to solve a problem but one of us is speaking chinese and the other is speaking mexican.  It's totally fruitless and pointless.  They think they know best because they went through medical school, 90% of what they probably forgot.  Most of them just wanna do the easy thing, get paid their quarter million a year and go home.  I haven't come across any that would actually be willing to investigate further by doing things such as sending you for a dopamine level test, or checking hypothalamus function.  And living in Canada, while everyone likes to say what a great health care system, if i want to get that stuff done out of my own pocket (which i don't think is even possible), i still need to go through my doctor, it's still his decision.  So it's a bunch of walls everywhere i turn, if you ask me.  Once you get on *this* side of the wall, it seems like you're fucked.  And I say this knowing well that thinking like that can be viewed as a victim mentality.  I still wont except myself as a victim, but when there are so many negative forces pushing from all sides, and when i think of the fact that it was circumstances mostly out of my control that caused this, it's tough not to feel fucked over.  And that's the worst feeling in the world and i try and ignore and shake it and forget it as much as possible cuz I don't wanna be that guy.  

 Bluebalu86, yes it would be nice to be able to accept.  But fooling myself into thinking that i'm going to accept feeling like THIS is a tough one to swallow and looks to be impossible to do.  More like, I'm willing to do my best to BEAR through it.  They say that you only suffer if you fight the feeling, and if you accept it and let it go through you, that you will no longer suffer.  While in general I used to find that true,and i believe it is true for 99.9% of suffering, I think in this case it's very difficult to do because we don't know why we are suffering, no one has given us a medical explanation because no one knows (well i bet some of the psychopaths at he pharmaceutical companies who devise these drugs do know), and all we are left with is pure agony, fear, emptiness and dysfunction, and a denial from the rest of the world.  And really to accept something you have to know what it is you are accepting.  How do I accept the fact that I feel nothing, have no desire for anything, and get no pleasure or satisfaction out of doing anything? Can you accept that?  When just being awake feels like i'm dead. I can't.  I'm not accepting that ****. I'm trying though, to keep doing things anyway and make something of myself even though i feel nothing for it.  Why? I guess i'm persevering, and my frontal lobe is managing to drag my dead feeling body along against all odds. 

[LucaDiProspero]

I'm lucky, very lucky to have discovered this forum, cause you people are living the same torture I'm living and we have similar thoughts...probably without the web I would have committed suicide cause I don't know anyone with our 'trouble' in real life. Tried also to join a self help group of people sharing mental illness, but...only two guys have taken and are still taking risperidone, but...both of them are schizophrenic and say ye no emotions, but more important no more voices or hallucinations (well only occasionally). They are satisfied.

You see...different issues, no comparation is possible. Probably if I were schizophrenic I would be satisfied too...I would see the whole thing like a good compromise.

[Blackstar]

Yeah I was in a group also with some other younger men who I think were suffering long term psychosis.  They were all medicated, and perhaps needed to be, I'm not sure.  For some people the trade off is worth it apparently.  But that number of people is not high, doesn't match the insanely high number of prescriptions that are dispensed for a variety of problems not related to psychosis or mania.

 Some of these guys were so obviously medicated that one of them when i first saw him I seriously thought he must be recovering from a stroke, he could hardly speak and was very hesitant and stuttered.  Turned out to be a really nice kid, just very incapacitated. Another guy was just so obviously "snowed" he always had a blank, scared face and sat still with an eerie lack of body language expression.  And of course there was the guy who had gained so much weight from taking Clozapine (a medication his psychiatrist fondly referred to as the 'Cadillac" of neuroleptics) that he also had to be on blood pressure and heart medication, and during the session you could clearly hear how hard it was for him to breathe.  He sounded like one those pug dogs that exhibit labored breathing and you wonder if they're gonna die any second.  You could tell they all had issues taking care of themselves, the ones that were clean and groomed you could almost tell it was because someone was telling them to do it on a regular basis.  Is this from the psychosis or the medication?  I'm willing to argue that the medication plays a big part.  

  Sad part is, they were all really kind, smart, nice people once you got to know them.  But their appearance and the initial impression they give off to people scares them off.  I wonder how many of them could have done without the medication.  

[lapd]

  Guys, I'm getting a bit more positive about the outcome of my condition. Visited a neurologist today, she listened patiently to my symptoms and at least I got a feeling that she might somehow help me. She scheduled me for a bloodwork tomorrow, also scheduled me for an endocrynologist visit and a psychotherapist visit (not really sure about the last one as she mentioned hypnosis as a possible treatment of emotional sphere). She also recommended taking a multivitamin, fish oil and a set of herbs:

• Saint John's wort
• Eleutherococcus
• Rhodiola Rosea
• Horny Goat Weed
• Ginseng
• Ginger root

  I'm also willing to give Noopept another try for at least a month. Some might argue that that's a big mix of additives to combine, but in my case I can't get any worse than I am now, plus strong stimulants like nicotine and coffee don't even work for me, so herbs won't make a big difference I guess. At least it's natural, some of these herbs are natural antidepressants and energy boosters, affecting dopamine and serotonin positively.

 

   I also visited another psychiatrist recently, same old song - "None of the APs should be left in your system by now, it's all in your head, you have a depression" etc. He also tried to push antidepressants on me, I just said "No, not a chance". No trust for big pharma or psychiatry left.

 

  I've recently found a guy at another forum who claimed accupuncture helped him to recover from 3 months of Risperdal. I'm not really sure about this, just as

I'm not sure about psycotherapy, but I might give it a try.

 

  Another thing I've noticed today - I haven't actually gone to sleep since yesterday and I don't really feel sleepy whatsover, but after a night up I felt a tiny little bit better in the morning and during the day than I usually do. Of course it's not a long term solution, but it can probably provide a relief for those who can afford a sleepless night, though I know many people here already struggle with insomnia.

 

  I'll also start riding a bicycle regularly beginning Sunday, will try to hit at least 20 km's a day, as I'm not really sure there is another way to get rid off the weakness, muscle loss and hand tremor.

[JanCarol]

hey lapd - you sound much better than when you first got here!

 

Even behind the blank wall, you have found others who relate to you, and relate to your experiences.

 

Please be careful with supplements - if you have a reaction - you won't know what is causing it.  Separate any new supplements by at least a week.  They are all good supplements for you - I like the way she is headed.  And while I know your sexual troubles bother you - perhaps hold off on the horny goat weed until last?  

 

Again, be careful with a multivitamin.  We recommend single ingredient supplements, so that you know if something causes a problem for you.  It frustrates my practitioners to know end, when I say to them:  but that is a combination.  I won't take combinations. A multivitamin might have a single component - like Iron or calcium, or a B vitamin - that you react to - but you will not know until you react, and you will not know what it is you are reacting to.  I would feel better if you would pursue quality magnesium, as reference above.

 

Herbs are powerful, and usually I would not recommend St. John's Wort to someone in withdrawal, but you are not having SSRI problems, you are having dopamine problems.  Keep in mind, you should taper off of St. John's Wort, just like any antidepressant.

 

Acupuncture - I've been taking it for awhile - and even if it doesn't FIX my problems, the needles stimulate my natural endorphins, and I do get a positive response - even if I cannot tell you exactly what that is and why it seems to help.  But it's nothing like going to an allopathic doctor.  It helps tune your system and enliven your functioning.  Beyond that, it's mysterious - but that's okay.

 

Take care, and keep us posted!

[lapd]

JanCarol, thank you for the post. I try to be enthusiastic about the herbs, but mentally I'm very down still. I still struggle with suicidal thoughts on a daily basis. The worst is I have no mechanisms left to make me afraid of it, afraid of death, of pain. It's bad to the point I have to go constantly distract myself from these thoughts. I still can't achieve the slightest effect from smoking, which means my dopamine and serotonin receptors are messed up beyond anything resembling normal.

 

I also now have a very strange effect of being disturbed by sounds. With every sound, even like a sound from typing, I get an internal "hit", it feels like my heart contracts, I feeling that you get when you are suddenly scared. Also people's voices produce this effect to the point I can't actually stand someone talking as it disturbs me internally to a great degree.

[lapd]

I wonder if that's a sign of recovery, hypersensetivity of CNS? Or it's some additional problems.

[LoveandLight]

I had this lapd..being disturbed by voices,.it got better x

[LoveandLight]

Oh lapd..I'm so sorry ((hugs)) it is a damn nightmare. But let's get through this together.

[Blackstar]

Lapd.. go back to your doctor or the hospital emergency.  Tell them what's going on.  I know this place is generally against antidepressants, but you might need to be on some sort of chemical intervention for a period of time.  I would go back to them and say you need help but are under no circumstance going to take antipsychotics.  We are always here to talk but you need a more aggressive kind of therapy than just talking on a forum.  You are severely depressed and suffering.  

[JanCarol]

lapd, I hope you are still there.

 

Herbs are good - but neuroleptics are strong.  The most that herbs can do is take the edge off of it.  Apparently that's not been too helpful.  Did it make it worse?

 

I agree, you need to get some help, please consider calling:

 

CHEREPOVETS 
Contact by: Face to Face  - Phone  - Letter: 
Hotline: 007 (8202) 577-577 
Hours: 
    Mon, Tues, Wed, Thurs, Fri, Sat, Sun: 09:00 - 21:00

 

I know you are afraid to go to doctor or hospital, you are afraid to talk to your family.  I understand what you have been going through, I've had something similar.  We call it Anhedonia / demotivation / depersonalization.  There is a name for it, and others have experienced it.  Please be gentle to yourself, distract yourself, and find out how others have dealt with it, here:

Anhedonia Apathy and Demotivation

please be well, we're waiting to hear from you.

[Altostrata]

lapd, find someone in real life who is understanding, who you can talk to. Please connect with caring people rather than taking any drastic actions.