RockinBandit off Cymbalta, Time to taper Lyrica

[RockinBandit]

@ Alostrata

 

I had taken 26 of the 28 tablets by the middle of the second week after the nausea I was feeling much better on them, second day of 4th week started to feel unwell but was sleeping at night very well.

Symptoms: Higher level of depression than before starting drained by mid afternoon, easily falling asleep once seated, restless/sleepless overnight, strong headaches, constipated followed by diarrhea.

 

I have not resumed Andepra since Sunday's dose currently the effects are resless/sleepless nights with constant leg cramping throughout the night, (periodically have the leg cramping anyway) unable to keep a static body heat level particularly feet overnight and diarrrhea.

 

Out of the current list the only thing that bothers me is the lack of sleep.

 

I was placed on the Andepra to help with mild depression due to chronic pain and that it was supposed to help reduce the pain as well.

Had I known it was Cymbalta I would not have filled the prescription as I was placed on it in 2012 for the same reason and stopped after a couple of days as it made me very ill as I was on on Oxycontin and other medication for a back injury with nerve damage.

 

Current medication is; Norspan 10Mg patch every 7 days, Lyrica 75Mg 1per day, paracetomal 650Mg x2 twice a day.

Supplements; Garlic gell caps 3 per day, Crampeze 2 per day, Caltrate tab 1per day, Mutivitamin tab 1per day, Echinacea cap 1 per day and have resumed St Johns Wort 1 tab x2 per day.

 

Later on in the year the Lyrica is on the hit list.

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, RockinBandit.

 

Lack of sleep is a very common withdrawal symptom, as is gastric upset.

 

We cannot predict how long withdrawal syndrome will last. You may wish to open your capsules and take 2 beads every day to see if that helps. You may get over withdrawal in a few weeks. If your symptoms get worse, you probably will want to get another prescription and reinstate more duloxetine.

 

Please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and post the results in this topic.

[RockinBandit]

Thursday 11/06/2015 O/night the worst   so far extreme twitching but thankfully no cramps until about 6am only one and only associated with the W/D by reason of tossing and turning. Found another W/D sympton numb feet had been thinking as is rather cold here at present that it was cold feet. but did think it odd that feet were very warm to the touch, but in bed had a cold feeling around them (very hard to express it).

 

When I saw my doctor on Tuesday and stated wanting to ween off he made no suggestion of a reduction program nor gave me a scrpt.    

Was not able to get an appt' with any a doctor at my clinic today but will see one tommorrow open clinic 10am-12pm and definately getting a script.

 

Spoke to a pharmacist about 20mg caps but not available anymore, for reduction he said to start with to divied into 3 and start with 20mg daily and don't be to fussy about total accuray of the divisions.

 

Have read all the information on slowly as she goes reduction and the h/made paper ruler measuring tool but alway been a bit bombastic once I've gone to a certain level don't like to back track and if so go to the 50% point and try to containt it there and then move on.

 

Altostrata I would not have thought of that avenue in your post above^^^ to take a  couple a day I could then take more small steps up to level I can cope at stay for a while on that then do the same in reverse.

Once I fill in Drug Interactions Checker where exactly and how do I get the results into here?

[Fresh]

Hi RockinBandit , welcome to the site.

When you get the drug interactions , cut and paste them onto your thread.

 

You may find that a few beads takes the edge off the w/d symptoms.   If it does then you can hopefully stabilize for a good while ,

then start to taper slowly.

 

Good to have you on board ,  Fresh

[Altostrata]

That doesn't not seem right, that 20mg caps are no longer available. Perhaps the pharmacist doesn't have them in stock, or can only get the generic.

 

Slow, methodical tapering is not easy for anyone. No one wants to do it. But it's the best way to protect your nervous system. You only have one, and it's not made of rubber.

[Fresh]

These are the interactions from www.drugs.com    Buprenorphine is called norspan in Australia.

 

 

buprenorphine ↔ pregabalin

Applies to: buprenorphine, Lyrica (pregabalin)

Using buprenorphine together with other medications that cause central nervous system depression such as pregabalin can lead to serious side effects such as respiratory distress, coma, or even death. You may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring by your doctor to safely use both medications. Do not drink alcohol or self-medicate with these medications without your doctor's approval, and do not exceed the doses or frequency and duration of use prescribed by your doctor. Also, you should avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how these medications affect you. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

buprenorphine ↔ duloxetine

Applies to: buprenorphine, Cymbalta (duloxetine)

Using buprenorphine together with DULoxetine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

duloxetine ↔ pregabalin

Applies to: Cymbalta (duloxetine), Lyrica (pregabalin)

Using DULoxetine together with pregabalin may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

[RockinBandit]

I did take 5 beads with water (good/bad?) at around 4am had 45mins of uninterupted sleep then bang spasms and twitching arms started much worse than previously,severe leg cramps which had stopped on night of the 11th and my left shoulder is aching today from all the jerking overnight.

 

Why is this only happening at night after I go to bed feeling very tierd and that I will get some quality sleep, symptoms are negligable throughout day and so far not really tired through lack of sleep?

 

Was unable to see a doctor until today, not mine said if I had gone most of the week why bother with restart, but did give me a script and advised to do alternate day dosing stated drug is only  30 or 60 Mg capsule.

Spoke to a different pharmasist she said to do alternate day dosing as well also said drug is only 30 or 60 Mg capsule.

 

Drug is made by Lilly their leaflet states same 2 cap sizes.

 

So, unsure which way to jump now try survive without or start a reduction with the 30mg.

 

Thank you all for the help.

Interactions between your selected drugs

buprenorphine ↔ pregabalin

Applies to: buprenorphine, Lyrica (pregabalin)

Using buprenorphine together with other medications that cause central nervous system depression such as pregabalin can lead to serious side effects such as respiratory distress, coma, or even death. You may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring by your doctor to safely use both medications. Do not drink alcohol or self-medicate with these medications without your doctor's approval, and do not exceed the doses or frequency and duration of use prescribed by your doctor. Also, you should avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how these medications affect you. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

st. john's wort ↔ duloxetine

Applies to: st. john's wort, duloxetine

Using St. John's wort together with DULoxetine can increase the risk of a rare but serious condition called the serotonin syndrome, which may include symptoms such as confusion, hallucination, seizure, extreme changes in blood pressure, increased heart rate, fever, excessive sweating, shivering or shaking, blurred vision, muscle spasm or stiffness, tremor, incoordination, stomach cramp, nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Severe cases may result in coma and even death. You should seek immediate medical attention if you experience these symptoms while taking the medications. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. Your doctor may already be aware of the risks, but has determined that this is the best course of treatment for you and has taken appropriate precautions and is monitoring you closely for any potential complications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

duloxetine ↔ pregabalin

Applies to: duloxetine, Lyrica (pregabalin)

Using DULoxetine together with pregabalin may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

st. john's wort ↔ pregabalin

Applies to: st. john's wort, Lyrica (pregabalin)

Using St. John's wort together with pregabalin may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

buprenorphine ↔ duloxetine

Applies to: buprenorphine, duloxetine

Using buprenorphine together with DULoxetine may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

buprenorphine ↔ st. john's wort

Applies to: buprenorphine, st. john's wort

St. John's wort may reduce the blood levels of buprenorphine, which may make the medication less effective. If you have been receiving treatment with buprenorphine, adding St. John's wort may also cause you to experience unpleasant withdrawal symptoms such as watery eyes, runny nose, sneezing, yawning, excessive sweating, goose bumps, fever, chills, flushing, restlessness, irritability, anxiety, depression, pupil dilation, tremor, rapid heart beat, body aches, involuntary twitching and kicking, abdominal cramping, loss of appetite, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and weight loss. Contact your doctor if your symptoms worsen or your condition changes during treatment with these medications. Your doctor may be able to prescribe alternatives that do not interact, or you may need a dose adjustment or more frequent monitoring to safely use both medications. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

 

 

 

[Fresh]

Hi RB ,  it takes 4 days to reach a steady-state in your bloodstream , so I'd encourage you to continue.

Until you stabilize with reinstatement , your withdrawal is continuing to develop and you may have new or increased symptoms

in the meantime.  And they will come and go.

 

Try reading this thread on reinstating http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

It may be possible for you to stabilize on a much lower dose than 50% of a capsule.  And there is a risk going straight back to a high dose that you'll have an adverse reaction.   This site recommends slowly slowly on the way up as well as on the way down.

 

We don't get cymbalta 20mg in Australia - just 30 and 60mg.     

 

You have some dangerous drug combinations there.   Someone more knowledgeable than me will be along to review the mix.  Having lyrica next on the hit list sounds like a good move.

 

How many days since you started the St Johns Wort again , at what dose?    It's important to try and figure out what is contributing to what reactions.  

You might want to just stop the SJW , given the interactions with each of the other meds.

Perhaps you could you have a go at doing your signature , that will make it easy to follow.

 

If you click FOLLOW at the top right you'll receive an email each time someone posts.

 

[RockinBandit]

Hi Fresh,

 

Thanks for the reply, have read the link on reinstatement has left me just as confused as to doing a restart if so what dose  would you sugest.

Thursday night only had issues of predominantly left arm having muscle tightness and involuntery movement but if I laid in various positions intensity would vary and did include some right arm involvment, lack of sleep with all this may only be due to the tightness and spasms may/may not be a symtom.

 

The 5 beads of Andepra early Sat morning more than doubled the intensity of spasms and tripled the leg cramps which I managed to evade the previous night.

 

St JW was never taken along side duloxetine.

 

I have only taken 3 St JW 2 on Mon 1 on Tues and stopped I have ceased every thing already and am only taking the Lyrica 75mg x1 daily Panadol Osteo 650mg x2 BD and wearing the Norspan patch 10mg change every 7 days but for a few months have moved it to 8 days.

The lyrica was originally 150mg but months ago did a 50% instant decrease and no issues, did a decrease to zero very quickly started 75mg dose and has been fine. and have intention to do a proper reduction plan later on.

 

This program does not fully deal with my chronic back pain but is workable and acceptable by me I also have endone 5mg as a back up if pain gets beyond me functioning in which I might need to take a dose of 2 once every couple of months.

 

This didn't fit on last post and these to are in the same capsule along with copper and other ingredients branded in Australia as Crampeze.

 

magnesium sulfate ↔ magnesium oxide

Applies to: magnesium sulfate, magnesium oxide

Using magnesium sulfate together with magnesium oxide can lead to elevated magnesium blood levels, particularly in people with reduced kidney function. Symptoms of high magnesium levels may include nausea, vomiting, flushing, drowsiness, dizziness, confusion, muscle weakness, reduced reflexes, low blood pressure, slow heart rate, and impaired breathing. You should seek medical attention if you experience these symptoms. Talk to your doctor if you have any questions or concerns. It is important to tell your doctor about all other medications you use, including vitamins and herbs. Do not stop using any medications without first talking to your doctor.

[Fresh]

Good to hear the above , it's hard to offer suggestions without knowing all the relevant information.

If you're nervous about 5 beads you could stick to 2 for another few nights and see how you go.  You can

keep going up slowly so long as you don't have a bad reaction , which may happen if you take say , 10mg. straight off.

 

So you've ceased crampeze and St Johns Wort , well done.   Just as it takes a while for the cymbalta to get

re-circulating , it takes a while for the other meds to clear your system.   Best not to change anything else just yet.

 

Hopefully over the next few days you'll notice some improvement.  You need to monitor day by day.  It's going to take some patience.

 

If you see a red envelope at the top right of the screen , click on it to read private messages.

 

[RockinBandit]

My wife was looking through a booklet she bought in the 80s, link to article about L-Thyrosine and how it can help with tapering.

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p0rz7s84dcleasp/L-Tyrosine.docx?dl=0

[Altostrata]

Do not EVER skip doses of a neuroactive drug to taper it.

 

That paper is very sketchy and refers to amphetamine withdrawal. It is unlikely that l-tyrosine reliably facilitates any kind of psychiatric drug withdrawal. (See the Symptoms and Self-Care forum for discussions of various amino acids.)

 

Do you have more Cymbalta now? Take the same number of beads each day at the same time (probably not 4 a.m.).

 

Startling out of sleep is a common withdrawal symptom. See What is withdrawal syndrome?

 

How long have you been taking St. John's Wort? This can complicate your situation.

[RockinBandit]

@ Altostrata

 

Thanks for the feedback my knowledge of whats what is vey scetchy so posted for a response, re your first quote, it is appalling how medicos have so little knowledge on what they are directing their patients to do! only one pharmasist I spoke to said to open caps and divide up for reduced doseing.

 

Yes I have another pack 28 30mg caps, odd that the 20mg is not available Australia.

 

Have been taking St JW for at least 6 months 2000mg per day

[Altostrata]

Take the same number of beads from a pack of 30mg capsules each day at the same time. Please keep track of your daily symptom pattern relative to when you take your drugs and their dosages on paper.

 

It may take some time for your nervous system to settle down, see The Windows and Waves Pattern of Recovery

 

St. John's Wort is not a harmless herbal remedy. It is a noradrenergic (can cause anxiety and sleeplessness) and a monoamine oxidase inhibitor (MAOI) (can conflict with foods and antidepressants). You will need to taper it to go off.

[RockinBandit]

St Johns Wort was ceased the day prior to starting the duloxetine.

 

I have ceased everything except for wearing the Norspan (buprenorphine) patch, Lyrica 75mg daily and paracetamol which was 665mg x2 BD is now

665mg x1 BD.

 

I did not resume taking any duloxetine after the 5 beads I took  at 4am on the 12th June on the night of the 13th had a gut feeling I would sleep without having the spasams and cramps, I have not had any symptoms so far, slept well on 13th 9 hours and the 14th 11.5 hours.

 

Today I feel good, clear and relaxed only have the ongoing chronic pain which is at a mild level.

[oskcajga]

 

@ Alostrata

 

I had taken 26 of the 28 tablets by the middle of the second week after the nausea I was feeling much better on them, second day of 4th week started to feel unwell but was sleeping at night very well.

Symptoms: Higher level of depression than before starting drained by mid afternoon, easily falling asleep once seated, restless/sleepless overnight, strong headaches, constipated followed by diarrhea.

 

I have not resumed Andepra since Sunday's dose currently the effects are resless/sleepless nights with constant leg cramping throughout the night, (periodically have the leg cramping anyway) unable to keep a static body heat level particularly feet overnight and diarrrhea.

 

Out of the current list the only thing that bothers me is the lack of sleep.

 

I was placed on the Andepra to help with mild depression due to chronic pain and that it was supposed to help reduce the pain as well.

Had I known it was Cymbalta I would not have filled the prescription as I was placed on it in 2012 for the same reason and stopped after a couple of days as it made me very ill as I was on on Oxycontin and other medication for a back injury with nerve damage.

 

Current medication is; Norspan 10Mg patch every 7 days, Lyrica 75Mg 1per day, paracetomal 650Mg x2 twice a day.

Supplements; Garlic gell caps 3 per day, Crampeze 2 per day, Caltrate tab 1per day, Mutivitamin tab 1per day, Echinacea cap 1 per day and have resumed St Johns Wort 1 tab x2 per day.

 

Later on in the year the Lyrica is on the hit list.

 

 

 

That's a LOT of medication.   I've been pollydrugged before, so I can understand.   Before I even know what your goals are, I'd immediately cut out the supplements.  They are only complicating your brain chemistry right now.  Once you get off of everything (if that's your goal) adding them back in might be something you want to do.  You don't really know whats in the supplements, they could be interacting with a hypersensitivity from the medication or something.  Supplements aren't regulated, so there could be all sorts of toxins and rat feces in there making you sick. 

 

Next:  getting off of cymbalta:  bead counting is a pain in the butt.  If you have any cash in your bank account, go buy a fancy scientific scale that can measure into the mg doses.  You can just weigh the capsules when they are full, and deduct a certain numbers of mg from the pill afterwards each day.  If it's a 20mg cymbalta tablet, it will probably weight like 500mg or something, because they fill it with a bunch of inert chemicals.  Therefore, subtract 50mg every 2-3 weeks (how every many beads that constitutes).

 

Here's a scale ( http://www.affordablescales.com/shopping/veritas/m-analytical/m124a.asp?gclid=CLfslo7wkMYCFdMYHwodUyUApw).  I would have spent $1000 on an analytical scale if I were in your position.  It's worth doing this right.  I really struggled with bead counting, and I am (was) a scientist with careful eyes.  It's a huge hassle.  You end up with beads all over your counters, in your carpet - etc.  It's really an awful frustrating experience.  A scale is the most precise way to handle this situation.

 

As altostrata alluded do, DONT SKIP DAYS - cymbalta has a 12 hour half life, so you're going to really struggle if you do that.  10% every 2-4 weeks should help to eliminate withdrawal symptoms.

 

---

 

 

I've been off of cymbalta for about 2 years now.  It's a VERY difficult drug to get off of - but all that other medication your taking might make the WD a little bit less severe.  After the cymbalta - I'm not even sure where to start - but one drug at a time is how I'd do it.  The Neurontin and Lyrica are very very powerful medications and should be tapered SLOWLY.  No more than 20% every couple of weeks.  Probably start with Lyrica, there's an ongoing lawsuit on that drug - so it's obviously dangerous. 

 

If you're eager to just let nature do its thing, and get off all drugs, I'd do 10% tapers of everything simultaneously every 2-3 weeks. 

 

Everyone's brain chemistry is different - don't expect to have a horror story like some people on this website.  They are the VAST minority of patients who com eoff of medication.  You increase your odds of becoming a horror story by tapering too quickly, however.

 

By being on all of this medication, your long term prognosis is not good (if you keep taking the medication).  Doctor's won't tell you this, but it's the truth.  You're causing all sorts of profound neurological changes to your brain by taking daily doses of this stuff.  That long term prognosis becomes much more favorable if you slowly taper off of the pills (preferably one at a time, but you can do more than one as well if you are so inclined).

 

Pain management is a huge trap that a lot of people get into these days.  The truth is that there's no cure for pain.  Life is painful and there's no magic bullet for pain that isn't going to give you a lot of much worse long term outcomes.  It's unfortunately something you're just going to either have to learn to live with, or accept being drugged and hazed out for the rest of your life. 

 

This is my personal advice, I'm not a medical doctor.

 

If you have any questions, feel free to send me a message.

[RockinBandit]

Some of the supplements I take were to try and keep my immunity up as I am light and unable to put on weight and easily contract colds and as my work involves being with Intellectually disabled people (contact with up 60 individuals a week) who's health and hygene is not always good.

 

Caltrate was added recently as my doctor said if I take magnesium I need to more calcium, the magnesium (Crampeze) was for regular leg cramping.

 

The Lyrica has been halved from 150mg just a straight out reduction with no adverse effects, I don't think that it actually is eleviating any of the pain anyway.

 

Paracetamol I have reduced this from 6 to 2 tablets a day with no adverse effects.

 

Reducing the Norspan (buprenorphine) patch had effects with a non acceptable pain increase. Prior to this due to regular spikes in pain the doctor wanted to increase my dose from 10mg to 20mg, I refused as my intention was to reduce. I accept I will always have this pain and as long as it is at a level I can still reasonably function am fine with that.

 

Two other meds I take which I had not mentioned yet are vitamin B12 in the form of an injection every 6 weeks.

Cholestyramine anhydrous (Questran Lite 4gr) 1-2 sachets a day, not for cholestoral issues

Have been on these since 1974 (should have been on them or similar since 1959)

[oskcajga]

Most supplements don't do anything, it's just a placebo.  The ingredients in most supplements aren't verified, and there's no way to determine whether or not your "immunity" is actually improving.  Doctor's seem to have convinced you that they are "helping you" and it's going to be difficult to convince you otherwise until you see their deception.  If anything, you seem to be helping them a great deal by providing them with a reliable source of monthly income.  B12 can be easily obtained from red meats naturally, unless you have an absorption issue (very few humans have any problem absorbing B12).  Those shots reliably help keep the injection doctor employed and the pharmaceutical company in business. 

 

 Good to hear you didn't have any issues with Lyrica, but we typically don't feel much until we taper down at the lower doses.  If you go from 75mg to 15 mg without any issues, that would probably be a good sign.

 

Some people can quit cold turkey without any ill effects, others end up disabled for like 5+ years.  Obviously, it's best to taper.  Please let us know when you're ready to get off your drugs, we're here to help you and support you through the process.  I think that we're also here to sympathize with the fact that you're taking so many drugs, many not necessarily.  I too was once taking about 5 different medications, and all they were really doing was damaging my brain.  It's a very VERY hard place to leave, because we're so committed to the system that we think is helping us.  I used to have 100% faith in my "doctors", for many years - it wasn't until I had an adverse reaction to medications that I changed my mind and realized that actually they were just messing me up and making my life miserable for many years.

 

Good luck and stay in touch with us here.  I support what ever decision you make, and totally understand. 

[Altostrata]

Please put ALL the drugs you take in the Drug Interactions Checker http://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.html and post the results in this topic.

 

Also, please put your recent history of reducing or discontinuing drugs in your signature, with the drugs you are currently taking and their dosages, see Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

[RockinBandit]

@ oskajga

 

Resulting from a bowl impaction at 5 months of age with 2 feet of bowl removed, by age 15 I determined that things weren't right and was referred to a prominent Gastroenterologist. After extensive tests it was determined my digestive system and the ability to absorb most nutrition including Vitamin B12 had been severely degraded (digest a full meal in 1 hour) hence the need for B12 and Cholestyramine anhydrous to control chronic diarrhoea.

 

Other supplements have been instigated by me no doctor involvement, in an attempt to ward off colds and cramps which I am prone to

[Fresh]

Just on the red meat thing , it's not the best thing for people in withdrawal/recovery.

 

Red meat is saturated in adrenaline and cortisol , which flood the animals' body from the fear response at the time of death.

 

Antidepressants mess with the brains' ability to regulate cortisol (fear hormone. It's not in our

best interest to consume anything that is known to escalate our own cortisol levels.

 

Thanks for doing your sig. RB

[oskcajga]

Just on the red meat thing , it's not the best thing for people in withdrawal/recovery.

 

Red meat is saturated in adrenaline and cortisol , which flood the animals' body from the fear response at the time of death.

 

Antidepressants mess with the brains' ability to regulate cortisol (fear hormone. It's not in our

best interest to consume anything that is known to escalate our own cortisol levels.

 

Thanks for doing your sig. RB

 

Hmm, I have no problem with red meat.  I'm very sensitive to a many different things too.  Even if red meat is saturated with adrenaline (which is dubious, because animals are slaughtered relatively quietly in most cases), the heat of cooking and the low pH of your stomach and high pH of your small intestine will very likely inactivate the molecule.   It's a metabolized amino acid, which means that it's probably deactivated by low pH like most amino acid derivatives.  If the animal was CHASED around the pen vigorously for an hour, like animals were hunted prior to industrialization, MAYBE there would be some adrenaline left in its blood a week after slaughter...maybe.

 

The only way your statement would be true is if there were high epinephrine levels in the blood (which I don't trust, because there are enzymes that naturally degrade it over time floating around), and then the red meat was INJECTED into your blood stream.  So as long as you don't inject red meat, then the thing that's causing your hypersensitivity is NOT adrenaline, but something else present in the meat.

 

There's a lot of misinformation on the internet that is just simply not true or superstitious.  That doesn't stop a LOT of people from believing it, however.  Sort of like how a lot of people still totally believe that the world was created in 7 days.

[Altostrata]

I believe oskcajga has the gist of it. Red meat also contains lots of nutrients that could help someone in withdrawal.

 

Each person is different, we each need to listen to our bodies and take care of them the way they want.

[RockinBandit]

Well it has been 9 days since I had those 5 beads of Cymbalta and have had no  WD symtoms since have been sleeping well and have had miner leg cramps at night only twice but I have these at times anyway.

 

I did however not want to get out of bed on the 17th I wanted stay there felt secure cocooned in my doona, Interestingly I was like that extremely a lot when I was young. Not sure how old I was maybe pre to early teens (to busy getting drunk after that to notice), and on and off into my 30s then had a breakdown.

[Altostrata]

Did you take 5 beads each day?

[Iamfine]

I understand about the sleep thing. If I don't get my 8-9 hours I can just plan on having a bad day.

[RockinBandit]

@altostrata

No I only took them that one time as mentioned,by the time I was able to obtain a script I had a gut feeling I would be okay so did not re start.

 

@Iamfine

I  function quite well with 4-6 hours of sleep the issue was always getting to sleep and staying asleep.

Having these long sleeps is rare for me but I have totally enjoyed it.

[Altostrata]

Please let us know how you're doing as time goes on.

[RockinBandit]

It has been 25 days since I had Cymabalta my last post dated at 16 June, no side effects. I have been lucky that I was only on it for a month before I found this forum, will wait a while yet before I start to do a Lyrica reduction have been on that around 2-3 years.

 

Not sure which I should tackle first the Lyrica or the Buprenorhine which is awkward as it is a 10Mg patch altough it should be changed every 7 days I started doing it every 8 days so already reducing it slightly. I usually see my doctor the day before I take off my last patch but when I'm due to see him this time for the script I will still have 4 patches which is what I would get monthly. So over time moving to eight days I have used 1 month's less patches.

[Altostrata]

We can help you with the Lyrica.

 

We don't really know anything about buprenorphine or the opioids.

[RockinBandit]

Thank you Altostrata when I am ready I will let you know.

 

I do know that the buprenorphine comes as a 5 Mg patch I was using them at one stage, and most of what I have found is that you taper by cutting the patches down, also as I said using them for longer periods.

 

Also read that it only takes around two weeks to be finished with them but I would rather take that a fair bit further.

[RockinBandit]

I started my Lyrica taper on Tuesday 22/09/2015 I am breking the 10% rule as previously some 6 or more months ago I did a straight drop from 150mg to 75mg.

So my start point is dropping from 75mg to 50mg and see where that takes me.

[Nomoreheadmeds]

Hi 'rockinbandit' welcome to SA.How have you been since 150mg to 75mg any withdrawal symptoms ?

[Petunia]

Hi RB,

I joined your new intro topic with your original one and changed the title to reflect your new situation. Its one intro/update topic per member.

 

If you taper too fast, you are likely to experience withdrawal symptoms, that's why we recommend tapering by 10%. Please read through this which will explain why:

  

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Here is our Lyrica topic if you decide to slow down:

 

Tips for tapering off Lyrica (pregabalin)

[RockinBandit]

Hi Nomoreheadmeds,

 

When I did the 50% drop from 150 -75mg had no WD of any kind but later on when I went from 75-00mg that was unbearable, my usual leg cramps of many years became constant,jerking limbs and extremely irratable under the skin like electrical zaps.

Restarted the 75mg and after a couple of weeks stableised, so now time to start again.

[RockinBandit]

Hi Petunia,

 

I have read all the info you mentioned a while ago and have it permanently tabed on my browser.

 

I am trying the bigger step first to see how I cope and if alright uptil a month goes by will try again if not will fall back to the 10% method.

Am just taking a punt I can do some bigger earlier steps because of the original 50% drop without issues, If this works for a couple of steps I still realise that when when I get down I will need to move to the 10% taper as the body can become quite finicky with the minute dosing.