LucyJed: Persistent and intense anxiety after 2.5 months of Luvox and Paxil

[LucyJed]

Alto, I'm not sure which drug you're referring to but The only SSRI that ever worked for me was Zoloft. On the 2 attempts that I tried to reinstate I think I started with maybe 6 mg then ramped to 12 then to 18 then 25 etc. as increase occurred my suffering from anxiety also increased drastically. Currently I'm having somewhat of a window as in in vacation at the beach.

I'm really afraid of starting up on a SSRI because. They have been so damaging to me and have caused me and my family so much pain.

It's been a tough journey to become 3 months SSRI free.... Please explain why you think I should introduce a low dose reinstatement, what is the possible outcome and end game, and won't I just get better with time and waves and windows??? I'm very anxious about even the thought of taking drugs again !!

[LucyJed]

I tried reinstating Zoloft twice at 5mg and up. Caused severe anxiety and agitated depression. My ns is so acutely sensitive and temperamental I cannot tolerate the drug/.

[Fresh]

Hi Lucy , try reading the thread on reinstating here http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

The recommendation is to start at 1mg and see if it helps.    It may save you from a debilitating withdrawal.    Your system has become very used to antidepressants after 18 years. , and a long slow withdrawal might really stuff things up for you.

 

My withdrawal continued to evolve for almost a year before I reinstated. I just got worse and worse  - I had been housebound for 5 months by that stage.

Please consider reinstating carefully as an option.  It's worth a shot   .

[LucyJed]

Hi Fresh

I believe my ns is to sensitive to any ssri for reinstatement Besides which would I take? All gave me terrible anxiety except Zolift until it quit working and them went paradoxical.

I'm miserable in withdrawl but hopeful I'll get better and my suicide ideation is less than when I was taking SSRI.

Please give me some hope that I will recover. It's windows and waves and feeling worse in the mornings .

Are you off the drugs? Are you well ? What's it like ?

[LucyJed]

Alto

Any SSRI makes me very anxious and increases my suicude ideation which scares me.

I sometimes get better and it's waves and windows. Seems like WD like others have had.

Don't you think I should stay the course and u will heal as my brain adapts?? LJ

[Altostrata]

LucyJed, the ramping up on dosage increased your anxiety. We know that can happen. That is why we suggest reinstating at very low dosages. If that helps, generally we don't recommend increasing the dosage.
 
Withdrawal syndrome does resolve with time, but recovery can last many months or years. Reinstatement, if it works, can make reduce current symptoms and allow you to "do over" the taper at a much slower rate.
 
The downside of reinstatement is that it does not work, or you have an adverse reaction to the drug. Please read the links we give you, such as About reinstating and stabilizing to reduce withdrawal symptoms

 

You do not have to reinstate. If you wish to cope with symptoms, see the Symptoms and Self-Care forum for suggestions.

[LucyJed]

I tried smaller dosages and later larder ones. All gave me pain and suffering ... My CNS is so whacked out, everything is toxic. Wish I had something to help me sleep past 4am

 

Did anything help you sleep later??

[Altostrata]

That's right, you did not stay at the smaller dosage, you ramped up. The increased dosage was too much for your system. More is not better.
 
There is no easy fix for withdrawal symptoms. See Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

[LucyJed]

Hi Alto

At first I tried 12.5 Zoloft. Didn't work so ramped up to 25mg - no good. This was the drup that worked for 16 yrs...

Then a series of new ones.

Finally I did a slow taper off Paxil - 10% over 20 weeks. But before that was over the Dr put me on Luvox, cross or bridge taper. I tapered of Luvox but only in 6 weeks.

Question, I've been off all except Luthium for 3 months .... I'm waking up with Cortisil anxiety and anxious and irritated most tge day. I could be improving , I know I'm better than when I took the drips. Is this the road to wellness ?

Basically I've be withdrawling for 4 years , I just didn't know it. with drugs thrown at me from timeno teluef fir years. So u don't know waft it's like to feel ok -- obviously I'm extremely worried about starting over..

[Altostrata]

What are the drips?
 
I've been talking about reinstating a small dose -- smaller than you've tried before -- because that can reduce withdrawal syndrome, including cortisol anxiety etc. You would stabilize on that dose for a few months perhaps, then taper off.

 

If you don't care to do that, please look at these topics and others from the Symptoms and Self-Care forum:

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

I'm sorry, there are no easy answers for withdrawal syndrome.

[LucyJed]

Hi Alto

I'm getting 4-5 hours sleep and anxiety is less albeit still bad in the morning between 5 and 8a. I'm getting some windows where I have a day or 2 of relief, of course I immediately thing maybe this is the end... Then the next night I'll have no sleep whatsoever and crushing anxiety and hopelessness. I'm 3.5 months off. Very slow taper on the Paxil. Only took the Luvox for 4 month so 6 weeks taper on it. Both drugs increased my insomnia and anxiety terrifically.

Also, other news is that I'm not getting the Akathasia as much, not waking with sweats and panic and heart palpitations.

Is this the normal course if recovery???

[Altostrata]

Good to hear some symptoms are fading. Yes, this is "normal" for recovery. Read The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[LucyJed]

Thanks Alto

Good to have your guidance and help while on the road to health . I never thought that it would take months to recover but considering I was in much worse shape while on the medicine and even a month ago I was so much worse - I am a bit relieved that there does seem to be less intensity, more sleep and no panic attacks, sweats or akathisia.

 

One thing maybe you can help me with... My wife will not discuss my condition with me anymore as she says she can't take it. She says all I do is talk about withdrawl and complain. She does not want to research or learn about it and does not support me during this tough time. She doesn't want me to mention it which is hard since I have chronic anxiety and insomnia and it hurts. I tell her that I hate to dwell on it but it's kind of top of mind since it's with me all the time. She's been dealing with my health opportunity for about 4 years - she's burned out.... And never a real nurturer in the first place.

Does this happen in lots of marriages?? I don't want to lose my wife but it's difficult with no support at home and my friends have pretty much abandoned me because of the illness.. Par for the course?? Any advise??? I'm a good guy still working and being a good dad while still suffering through this hell....

[Altostrata]

Please discuss this in the Relationships forum. Most people here have found they cannot rely on others in their lives to support them in this situation. You will need to be self-reliant.

[LucyJed]

Hello

 

I'm 5 months off Luvox and very discouraged as I thought I'd be much better by now.

Per my Drs instruction I weened of over a 6 week period, but since the drug never really helped me and made me more anxious it seemed ok to wean off. The problem was that I took Zoloft for 18 years and it quit working. No other ads worked. So I had to quit everything.

 

Now I'm taking nothing . At first I had lots of Akathsia, anxiety, and insomnia. I wake at 4m with severe panic and sweats...

 

Now I get several days of windows (mostly anxiety). Followed by several days of intense anxiety and I geeky like I'll never get well. I sleep about 4-5 hours. And my brain is always foggy.

 

So is this normal for withdrawl? And am I healing? How long does this go on?

[bluebalu86]

Yes, that's normal for withdrawal. It's good that you have windows. They will become more frequent and longer in time.

No one knows how long it will last, it's unique for each individual, but generally speaking - it's a long term ordeal, unfortunately. 

Some people recover faster than others, some people have more brutal withdrawal than others. 

[Fresh]

Hi LucyJed ,     5 months off is relatively early days after 18 years on ssri's.

What you're experiencing is , unfortunately , very common for this situation.    You may have some months of this ahead of you yet.  

It's going to be windows and waves till it wears itself out , so hunker down.

 

Remember , the waves always do pass.

[Nomoreheadmeds]

welcome 'lucyjed' 6 weeks might have been too quick .I did my initial taper over 6 weeks also .At least your sleeping quite well considering.How long were you taking  luvox ?

[Fresh]

LucyJed , this forum is one thread per customer.    Perhaps this discussion can continue on your other thread

[LucyJed]

Ok. Not sure about the threads . Just want some advise and support. So I should go back to my original topic? When your battling the monster which is ad withdrawl some times you don't always think clearly.....

[LucyJed]

Hi everyone-

I need some help and reassurance .

I've been I off all ADs for 5 months. I weaned off Luvox faster than I should have because I only took it for 4 months and it didn't work and made me worse with Anxiety and Insomnia. Prior to that was Paxil which I took for 9 months and never worked. I weaned of it in 4 months. I didn't know about withdrawl tapering protocol - and I was just doing what my psych told me to do. I had for 18 years taken Zoloft and then it quit working - so I thought that I just needed to switch ADs. No other ADs worked after Zoloft..... So for 3 years I tried several and all were torturous.

Now after 5 months, i get several days sometimes that I don't have intense symptoms. Windows.... I still don't feel great but better and more normal. Then I get the waves - anxiety, worry, insomnia, body aches , panic attacks at 4am. Etc.

So this is the healing process? This is normal for AD withdrawl ?

It's terrible because during the windows I think OK I'm getting over it, back to a normal life..... And then bam, back to hell.

Can anyone tell me if they have similiar experience. How long until relief comes? Do windows get longer and then fade away?

Please. Need some reassurance. I'm worn out and having a very difficult time hanging on to my job and family.

Thanks LJ

[LucyJed]

Thanks Fresh!

I appreciate the feedback. So this is normal.... It's a good sign that I'm getting the windows I guess. And all you can do with the waves is hunker down. Very tough , especially when I'm in a demanding work environment and have family to support and love.

Also, not much support.... I wish I had some kind of timetable I could refer to. In these waves I start giving up hope because of the insomnia and intense anxiety that feels like the flu.

[Petunia]

New topic merged with original intro thread. LucyJed, please bookmark or follow this thread so you can find it again easily, its one intro/update topic per member so we can keep all your information in one place.

 

See: The Windows and Waves Pattern of Stabilization

[LucyJed]

Alto

I am still experiencing the early morning cortisol blasts that are associated with finally getting into a deep sleep and then my brain being startled. As you said its like the brain is afraid of getting too deep of sleep.

What can be done about this? Why is this happening?

LJ

[LucyJed]

Alto,

I'm 6 months out and still wake at 4 with anxiety rush. It gets better during the day but I'm exhausted with the 4-5 hrs sleep.

I guess it's too late for reinstatement and really all ssri s. Cause anxiety in me. So does sjw, triptophan and Htp 5.

The Lamictal idea of 1mg sounds interesting but I'm afraid to get back on a psych drug after a long bag grueling 6 months .

I'm using mostly magnesium, acupuncture and some Chinese herbs for anxiety (not very strong).and meditation.

 

Am I just supposed to wait it out? I'm windows and waves. Mostly waves. Anxiety all day 24 hours. Memory effected. Can't recall words or events. Some depression and emotional sadness. Did I mention very little sleep?

 

Is this the norm?? Advice?

 

LJ

[KT38]

LucyJed, I am at the end of 6 months off and still have horrible constant anxiety, too, so you are not alone.

[LucyJed]

Hello

I've been off Luvox and ativan for 6 months. I still have anxiety, depression and insomnia but not as bad.

My goal is to get off the Lithium that I hate as it makes me foggy and overweight.

 

My taper is 10% every 2 weeks. But after 5 days I feel more depressed and anxious. This may go away, ..

 

But now I'm thinking that maybe I should wait until I'm totally healed for the SSRI and Benzo withdrawl. Whenever that is....

 

Can someone give me a suggestion or experience.

 

thanks. LJ

[Petunia]

New topic merged with original intro thread. LucyJed, please bookmark or follow this thread so you can find it again easily, its one intro/update topic per member so we can keep all your information in one place.

 

 

If I were you I'd stop tapering Lithium for now and wait until you are recovered from your previous tapers. Your symptoms indicate that your nervous system is still unstable and you are experiencing withdrawal symptoms, it may take a while before this settles down again, but if you continue tapering, its likely to get worse.

 

You were on these drugs for over 18 years, so I wouldn't expect you to be completely recovered after 6 months. How did you taper? Did you used the 10% method. Please would you put some information about how you tapered in your signature.

[JanCarol]

Dear LucyJed,

 

You haven't really listened to the other moderators, what makes you think you will listen to me?  This post will sound stern, but I remind you that you asked for it in PM.

 

You were on SSRI's for over 18 years.  You will not be better in a month, or two, or 5, or a year.  This may take years.  Maybe 5 years.  Maybe less, maybe more. My crystal ball is out-of-order, I can only tell you that you need to be prepared to hunker down and ride it out for the long haul.  You need to learn to cope with your symptoms, since you decided that our suggestions about reinstatement were not for you.  (I still believe it would've helped you, but I do understand your fear of taking any more of the drugs that caused this mess.)

 

DO NOT TAPER THE LITHIUM while you are so unstable.  Leave it alone.  Get your kidney and liver function tests done.  DO NOT TAPER THE LITHIUM.  It is actually protecting you from the worst of the withdrawal.  You are on a pretty low dose of it, anyway.  It is unlikely to cause problems at this dose, and more likely to confer benefit.

 

Did you hear that?  If you had not been on lithium - IT WOULD BE WORSE than it is now.  I'll say it one more time:  DO NOT TAPER THE LITHIUM!

 

So stop.  Settle.  Don't do anything.  Learn to live with what you have.  Others have provided the links for meditation.  I will stop yelling now.  I'm sorry for being so harsh, but imagine your own child is in an emotional state, and you see them spinning in circles and circles, you have to tell them to stop.  

 

You will not see the horizon or the path, until you stop.  Be still.  Let it settle.

 

For months, even years.  Then, when you have calmed, I'll be happy to help you get off the lithium.  

[LucyJed]

That's pretty harsh JanCarol.

You may have misunderstood my situation, as I had already tapered from the Luvox before I found SA. Not realizing that a 6 week taper on a drug that I took for 4 months and never worked would be this harmful in addition to giving me paradoxical anxiety reaction . Of course my psych told me to do it even faster. Same with Lithium.

The reinstatement seemed like an unlikely alternative since no SSRIs at any level did anything but cause more anxiety, however I did not try anything at a low dose of 1 or 2 mg. But at this point I can't even take a small multivitamin.

 

Zoloft worked for 18 years, I just took it and Drs said that I'll need it the rest of my life so don't worry about getting off it. Of course when it quit working and went paradoxical I went to every Dr I town and took all kinds of meds... Nothing worked, all made me sicker.

 

I felt that I am slowly healing with the help of meditation, acupuncture and magnesium. But the Lithium withdrawl has messed me up again. A 10% withdrawl and after 5 days - worse depression and anxiety.

 

I am also becoming more compassionate with myself and others however my wife is very Intolerant of the situation and is hostile with regards to me complaining about symptoms. I can't blame her though because she hates mental illness and doesn't understand it.

 

I have a young son that I care for very much and have a difficult time being around him when I'm hurting so much because I don't want him to know how messed up I am. My wife is becoming more angry at me and lashing out at my son but she won't get any help or read about the condition I have. My situation seems grim and scary. Sometimes like a bad dream that I can't wake up from.

I pray to God for relief and healing but for now I get nothing.

 

Please don't be harsh, I need hope... I am learning and as with everyone else this is not what I remotely considered would happen with my life. I was without a job, and miserable in 1993 , next thing a Dr gave me Zoloft to help. 22 years later .....

[joey122]

The memory gets better for me it has at least hang in there . I am like 5 months in the first few months were brutal for cogniton and memory now it has improved.

[Petunia]

LucyJed,

Even if you were ready to be tapering Lithium, and I don't think you are, 10% every two weeks is too fast. I can understand you wanting to get off it, but your brain and nervous system can only work at repairs as fast as they can, if you get into a fight with them, they will win and you will end up feeling worse than you do now.

 

You have chosen not to reinstate in order to taper slower, which is fine, but the consequences of that decision is that you have to be patient, and learn how to tolerate withdrawal symptoms while you recover.

 

Many of us have had to deal with friends and family who don't understand what's going on with us, it can add to an already difficult situation. Have a look in our  Relationships  forum to see how others have deal with it, maybe start a topic there for support for your particular situation.

[JanCarol]

LucyJed,

 

I understood your entire story.  18 years on Zoloft, 9 months on Paxil, another 4 months on Luvox.  A severely destabilised system.  Suffering.  Time to stop.

 

Did you hear the part where it could be worse if you were off the lithium?  As much as I've struggled with lithium, please stay on the lithium.  It's not a high dose.  If it's not hurting you, it's probably helping you.  

 

I know you are not getting support at home, few of us do.  When I saw you thrashing about, I felt it was better to hold you down than to kick you some more.  Either way, it's hard on you, it's hard on me, too.  

 

Starting a new taper, when you haven't settled from all of the old stuff is not going to make you better.  I want to help you get better.

 

It is vital to your recovery that you learn to be still.  I can see how, you could go to a doc in a panic and s/he would give you more drugs.  If you can't settle, you could go that path again, and the next level of drugs is the neuroleptics, called "anti-psychotics."  I know you don't want to go there.

 

It will get better - but it takes time.  You can't keep making changes every day, every week, every month, and you need to learn for yourself how to cope.  I can't come over there and cope for you!  Nor can Petunia or Alto!  If you have a new symptom today - write it down.  Count how many days you have that symptom or set of symptoms.  Notice how it changes.  It will change. Plan on weeks, months, see where you are by April 11, 2016.  You can do it.  You've had windows, you will have more.

 

We have lots and lots of tools here.  Here are some of my favorites:

 

Qi Gong

Yoga

Tai Chi

Mindfulness

Guided calming meditations

Gardening

Walking

Pets

Phone a Friend

Get a massage

Acupuncture

Karate - or Circuit Training, but gently!

Stupid Games on Facebook

Listen to music

Watch a DVD (avoid commercials, horror, anything stimulating) or TV show

Craft - for me it's colouring books

Play with children

 

Make a list of things you can do, and when you start spinning your wheels, look at your list and pick one - any one will do - and do that for awhile.  When you can't stand it anymore, switch.  Do something else.  If you're interested in any of the above things, I can get you more information.

 

Waiting is hard work.  Holding is hard work.  That is the hard work you have before you.  We can help you, and we are helping you - but you need to learn to look inside yourself for whatever it is you need in order to hold, to wait.  Time is the healer - I know it sounds cliche.  But you can't jump at your symptoms, even when you are knee deep in mud, covered in seaweed, and gasping for air.  That is the time to be calm, to breathe, to find a way to be with yourself - even when it's the hardest thing to do.

 

I'm sorry I shocked you, I'm hoping it helps, though.  I'm always hoping to help.  And it does get better.  But it takes time.

[LucyJed]

Dear JanCarol

It's been a while but I want to thank you for your direction. It's been extraordinary and difficult the last few months. Holidays were very difficult.

I did have a nice wave that lasted about 2 weeks from December 30 to January 12. Now I'm back in the ****. Very anxious and my body aches. My wife gets mad at me when I get sick again but that's because I get anxious and start to OCD about our life and it drives her crazy. She will not comfort me when I'm having symptoms so it's even tougher. I guess that' the way it is for most. Her therapist told her that I am probably a non drinking alcoholic and I have lots of childhood neurosis? She does get the AD withdrawl because it should only last a month or so.

As you say, time is the healer. It's been 9 months, but I'm getting some windows every once in a while. I feel horrible but have hope and need some encouragement.

[LucyJed]

I meant to say that I had a window that lasted almost 2 weeks, then abruptly went away and got steadily worse for a while. I wish could prolong the Windows....

[Altostrata]

Don't we all! Still, sounds like some improvement, hold onto that.

 

If I were you, I'd work out this "non-drinking alcoholic" thing with your spouse, that sounds like quite a painful misunderstanding.