adrien: Olanzapine withdrawal

[adrien]

I was diagnosed with schizophrenia. Though I find meds only made my problems worse. I'm currently on no meds. I havnt had any signifgant withdrawal but my memory is really bad and that worries me. It never was this bad before.

[Addax]

Hi Adrien.

 

I'm sorry to hear you feel like you're struggling with memory problems. That's got to be difficult and maybe a little scary as well. Memory can be an issue in withdrawal.

 

It looks like you tapered very quickly. 10% decreases of your current dose every 4-6 weeks is typically what we reccomend to minimize withdrawal symptoms, but I'm Glad to hear you haven't had any other significant withdrawal symptoms.

 

How long had you been taking the Olanzapine before you tapered Off? Did you experience any other symptoms during your taper or in the last few months? The more information we have the better we're able to support you.

 

Please take some time to look around this site. There's a lot of great information and people here.

[adrien]

I've been having some sleep disturbances and feeling a little bit anxious. That's about the only other ones though those are minor.

 

This isnt the first time I tried. The last time I tried I had some hullisinations, so I had to go back on. Though so far this time I've hadnt had probems like that.

 

I think I was on the meds for two years. Though I dont really remember the past 5 years very well so it's hard to know.

[adrien]

Before i was on olanzapine i was on clozapine and I had a seizure on it. Before that i was having incontinence at night, id wet the bed every night almost.

 

I feel like it permently damaged my brain. Does anyone know anything about this?

[adrien]

I tend to see my psychologist every 3 months or so. or even less. Even though i asked him for more.

 

The last time i talked to him he told me that anti psychotics were like what insulin is to diabeties. Which is one of the most stupid things  i herd a proffesional say considering the fact if you knew just a little bit about diabeties and psychosis they cant be compared because diabeties is well understood, insulin naturally occurs in the body and insulin is given to regulate blood sugars. While anti psychotics reduce dopamine. plus no one knows what causes psychosis and it's not well understood, as is a lot of mental illnesses arent well understood because not much is known about the brain. The brain is very complex.

 

You would think that a psychologist with years of training and education would understand this and keep on top of current research.

[adrien]

I know this forum is about tapering off meds. Even though i am having withdrawal and it's really screwing with my head i think i can stick through it.

 

I tried searching the forum for ideas about what to do without meds. I'm not sure what to do in that area. I cant get help from a psychologist because he seems to think all my problems can be solved by a pill. My meetings with him are very sparse and ussually only last about 5 minutes and i dont know what to talk to him about and he isnt doing a really good job of trying to find out what i need help with.

 

So does anyone have any ideas? I'm really starting to feel like things are hopeless.

[degen12]

It really depends on the type and duration of your seizure, but I think a neurologist would best be able to answer your question.

[adrien]

I'm sorry if I'm posting too much. If it's a problem, please tell me.

 

I started trying to email my psychologist because I feel like he's not listening and I feel it's easier to get out my thoughts with writing. Also he tends to schedule our appointments as much as 3 months apart.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

To:  Glen
Subject: Not enough appointments

 

Glen,

 

Our next appointment is scheduled a month from now. That's too long to wait. I think we should have appointments atleast once a week. Most of my problems arent due to a mental illness. All medications have done to me was make me feel worse or cause other problems and i tend to accomplish more and feel better when I'm off them. I need help with psychological things. My problems probably arent psychiatric.

 

The fact you said that anti psychotics are like insulin is for diabetics insulted my intelligence. This is because diabetes is a well understood disorder. While psychosis isnt well understood. The medications dont target any psychosis, they only reduce brain function in general. There's a appearance of the symptoms being reduced, but this is only because the medications mechanism of action reduces brain function in general.

 

Anti psychotic medications are great for people who are very psychotic and can help them. Though anti psychotics should only be used as a last resort since basically they are slow chemical lobotomies, recent scientic studies prove this. They shouldnt be used as much as they are.

 

I think you're too hung up on my diagnosis and arent trying to help me with problems that you have the training to help me with. It seems like you think all my problems can be solved with medication.

 

Hope to hear from you soon.

 

~ adrien

 

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Subject: Re: not enough appointments

adrien,

 

I am out of town until the week of your next appointment, for various reasons, and that’s why our next meeting is so long off.  Sorry, I’m not sure I follow what you are saying about medication, but as for the problems you mention – please write them down so we can discuss at our next meeting.

 

Glen

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

Glen,

I thought it was pretty clear what I wrote. Anti psychotic meds reduce the levels of dopamine in the brain. The effects can be reduced psychosis symptoms. But also general reduction of inteligence. After awhile of chronic use anti psychotics start to destroy gray matter in certain regions of the brain, mostly in the prefrontal cortex. Psychosis causes some brain changes, though anti psychotics are like throwing water on a grease fire. It may reduce the effects of psychosis but to the consequence of destroying personalty and intelligence. I saw this first hand talking with people who have been on the medications for years. A lot of these people are empty shells of what they used to be.

 

In the 1950's when "anti psychotics" where first discovered by accident trying out drugs to put people under for surgery they were called neuroleptics which is latin for "to get a hold of ones nerves" (this is actually a more accurate way of describing them than calling them an antipschotic.) They hailed them as chemical lobotomies when they discovered how they effected schizophrenics. They wernt called anti psychotics until later, but that was mostly the pharmaceutical companies trying to rebrand them.

 

It's hard for me to articulate my problems. A lot of my problems are anxiety and depression. The other problem is have is memory problems. I have trouble going outside because i have trouble being around strangers and making eye contact with them.

 

I have no friends and i have trouble keeping friends. My friendships tend to be very transient because people tend to stop talking to me because they probably think i'm stupid. I get taken advantage of by people because in general i'm accepting of most people. Though lately i've been learning that i have to be more picky who i associate with.

 

Lately I've been screening my calls to avoid certain people. The only calls i get are from my dad and 1-800 numbers which i think are telemarketers. The person i am avoiding he tends to call about once a month though i think he's in alcohol rehab. Or so he says. i think he told me and another person that so we can excuse his behaviour.

 

I'm not sure if i'm accurate how i describe my problems i was hoping you can help find them.

 

~ adrien

 

 

 

-----------------------------

 

so does anyone have any thoughts? Did i do something wrong?

[compsports]

Personally, I would find another psychologist.   He sounds like he is clueless and not helping you.   But obviously, it is your decision to make.

 

CS

[Marta]

HI! I agree 100% on the stupidity of the diabetes analogy! It's not the same..at all!

You have nothing to lose if you try another psychologist. And you should say from the beginning that you don't want to hear the diabeties story!! And of you need to meet him more it's your right, you pay him, he has to listen!

 

I, personally, never visited a psychologist because I think it's really hard to find who fits for you and I'm scared that I'll be disappointed.

Let's hope for the future of good medical research, maybe in 10 years they will understand more...there are a lot of interesting projects for the future.

Fingers crossed!

[Katy91]

Hi Adrien I'm trying to get off olanzapine as well so I'd be interested to know how you're getting on.

[Petunia]

Welcome adrien,

I moved some of the topics you started in the symptoms forum here to your own thread because they were related to your own situation specifically, its best to keep all your information and details in one place so we have a complete understanding of your situation when replying. Please use this thread to track progress, write about symptoms, ask questions and communicate with the community, add to it whenever you want.

 

I also added more detail to the title of this thread to reflect your situation better.

 

 

Before i was on olanzapine i was on clozapine...

 

Please would you provide a few more details, what dose? how long? how did you stop taking it? If you would add this to your signature this would be helpful, along with any other drug history, we need your complete drug history. I know you have some memory issues, so just do what you can, approximate dates and times will be fine.

 

Also, please would you add the approximate date you stopped taking olanzapine?

 

When you stopped taking it previously, did you taper or just stop? How long did it take before you started having hallucinations?

 

 

I know this forum is about tapering off meds. Even though i am having withdrawal and it's really screwing with my head i think i can stick through it.

 

 

 

I'm thinking that perhaps it might be a good idea to reinstate a small amount and do a proper taper. We suggest reducing by no more than 10% of the current dose every 4 weeks, this reduces the risk of withdrawal symptoms arising. Please read through this which will explain why:

  

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Also see:

 

Tips for tapering off Zyprexa (olanzapine) - Surviving ...

 

 

I tried searching the forum for ideas about what to do without meds. I'm not sure what to do in that area.

 

What other withdrawal symptoms are you having besides memory problems? Have you looked through this topic yet:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Petunia.

[adrien]

Welcome adrien,

I moved some of the topics you started in the symptoms forum here to your own thread because they were related to your own situation specifically, its best to keep all your information and details in one place so we have a complete understanding of your situation when replying. Please use this thread to track progress, write about symptoms, ask questions and communicate with the community, add to it whenever you want.

 

I also added more detail to the title of this thread to reflect your situation better.

 

 

Before i was on olanzapine i was on clozapine...

 

Please would you provide a few more details, what dose? how long? how did you stop taking it? If you would add this to your signature this would be helpful, along with any other drug history, we need your complete drug history. I know you have some memory issues, so just do what you can, approximate dates and times will be fine.

 

Also, please would you add the approximate date you stopped taking olanzapine?

 

When you stopped taking it previously, did you taper or just stop? How long did it take before you started having hallucinations?

 

 

I know this forum is about tapering off meds. Even though i am having withdrawal and it's really screwing with my head i think i can stick through it.

 

 

 

I'm thinking that perhaps it might be a good idea to reinstate a small amount and do a proper taper. We suggest reducing by no more than 10% of the current dose every 4 weeks, this reduces the risk of withdrawal symptoms arising. Please read through this which will explain why:

  

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Also see:

 

Tips for tapering off Zyprexa (olanzapine) - Surviving ...

 

 

I tried searching the forum for ideas about what to do without meds. I'm not sure what to do in that area.

 

What other withdrawal symptoms are you having besides memory problems? Have you looked through this topic yet:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

 

Petunia.

 

Not sure what dosage of clozapine i was on. Though they took me off it because it was a emergency because i was having seizures on it, i lost my memory and i fell in the shower. i said i came out of the shower with a black eye talking in giberish.

 

Somewhere someone suggested i post my full medication history this is what i can remember of all the meds i was on:

 

1995 put on ADD med was on it for a short time

1997 risperdal

1999 olanzapine

2001 got off medications

2002 dexedrine

2003 seroquel

2004-2007 medication free time

2008 paxil, risperdal, olanzapine

2010 abilify

2011 some med similar to risperdal forget the name of it, it was a long acting injectable

2012 unknown

2013 clozapine

2013-2015 olanzapine.

 

As for withdrawal symtoms i'm having other than memory problems I'm having a lot of depressed mood. Anxiety. Sensitivity to sound. Fatigue. Having trouble enjoying things. Concentration problems. Muscle spasms. Tight back muscles. Sleep disturbances. A little bit of paranoia, but that's managable. One time I herd something that sounded like a voice in my ear, though that was transient and doesnt happen much.

[adrien]

*topic moved from symptoms forum

 

I've been off olanzapine for about a month or two. Will taking like 10 mg agravat the withdrawal and start over the proccess? or is it just a way to help myself get to sleep that wont have any lasting effects? I found olanzapine good for knocking me out when i took it and lately i've been having trouble sleeping and staying asleep.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Petunia
added note

[compsports]

Hi Adrien,

 

I will share my personal experience while avoiding answering your question. .    Several years ago, when I was tapering Remeron, which was one of two sleep meds I was taking, I suffered severe insomnia in spite of tapering at 5 to 10% of current dose.   As a result, I chose to momentarily updose because I was working and my sanity was at stake.    Not sure it really worked but I guess maybe the action of doing something gave me the placebo effect, hard to say.

 

Fast foward to today.   I have been off of meds for over 5 years and have chosen to take Tempazepam on a PRN basis when my sanity is at stake and I need sleep to function the next day.   As you can see in my signature, I am suffering from sleep issues.    To be honest, if I wasn't so scared of quickly developing a tolerance, I would be tempted to take it every day but I don't.

 

Still, if the sleep doctor I am going to see suggests a med for me to take, I am going to have to give alot of consideration because frankly, I am tired of minimal functioning.   I am saying this as someone who had no doubt I would live life med free.  

 

Back to you -  I think it is a call you have to make yourself and no one on this site can tell you what to do.   Personally, if I had only been off of meds for as little time as you have, I would try to gut it out longer without taking anything since your body is still trying to stabilize from the meds.   But I am not living your life and as a result, I wouldn't be presumptuous to say what you should or shouldn't do.

 

Best of luck.

 

CS

[basildev]

Hi Adrien,

 

I haven't contributed to this site for a very long time but I happened to log in today and, seeing your post, I really wanted to reply.

 

Nearly 2.5 years ago I attempted to taper off Citalopram and after getting down to 10mg I hit a wall and as a result I suffered from insomnia.

 

I had a packet of Valium in the cupboard, and, over a period of 2.5 months I took 5mg PRN.

 

It's hard to believe but, after taking no more than 37.5 mg of Valium over 2.5 months, I experienced what I now know to be tolerance withdrawal. As soon as I realized what was happening I threw the Valium out and have not touched it since.

 

I have been dealing with the fallout from that since then.

 

I am much, much better these days but the progress has been very slow.

 

I know we're comparing apples with oranges here, as you are talking about taking the SAME medication that you tapered off, but I think what compsports said about your body still trying to stabilize from the meds is spot on. I believe that because my CNS was so screwed up I was highly vulnerable to developing a dependence on the Valium very quickly - and that's exactly what happened.

 

So what I'm trying to say is adding or changing medications can screw things up even more. It's a bit of a crapshoot.

 

I strongly believe that if I had stayed away from the Valium and just let my brain do its thing I would have stabilised much, much sooner.

 

Like compsports said I'm not living your life so I can't tell you what to do.

 

Just wanted to share

 

Good luck and take care.

[adrien]

since i've been off olanzapine I've been having these feelings of randomly being reminded of a nightmare when i'm doing certain things. Even though i cant remember most of the nightmare. Once it happened i had to puke,. The last time it happened i was searching this forum effects of quiting smoking on withdrawal to see if anyone made a post about it and i got this intense feeling of nasea and my vision kind of changed.

 

So my question is, is it normal for anti psychotic withdrawal to effect dreaming that way to the point of the dream floating up at random?

[adrien]

So i want to quit smoking, but i stopped taking olanzapine two or so months ago. I'm not sure if it'll be safe as I am aware my brain might still be adjusting itself from the lack of meds.

 

Would it be safe to quit smoking now cold turkey? or should i wait until i am off meds for a little while longer?

[Skyler]

Merged with your intro thread as questions relate to your personal journey.

[Katy91]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-ouch-33440478

 

I recently read this article on the BBC that stopping smoking increases the dose by 25% but if you're completely in the clear from Olanzapine then maybe it will be okay.  I don't know.  How long does it take for a drug to completely leave your body?

[Altostrata]

I don't think the olanzapine would be a factor in adrien's stopping smoking, Katy. It's long gone.

 

adrien, how is your sleep these days?

 

I don't know a lot about quitting smoking, but I think that, given you're just off olanzapine, it would be kinder to your nervous system to taper off the cigarettes. Nicotine is a psychoactive drug, too.