Jill44's long road

[Jill44]

Hi, I'm Jill and I'm 67. I've been on and off meds since the 1970s, no horror story though. I feel for all who are victimized by pmeds and their prescribers.

 

My ADD diagnosis in 2003 took a big weight off my shoulders. It explained my lifelong issues in a way nothing else could. The Adderall helps when I go off the rails cognitionwise, and I don't take it every day. I take Xanax occasionally in .125 mg doses to quell extreme emotion.

 

I'm on generic Effexor ER 150 mg/day. I reduced my dose myself from 225 to 150 and thank God I did; my affect had flattened and I hated it. My shrink just sighed when I told him. "I wish you'd talk to me before you do these things."

 

Taken hypertension meds since 1988. Family history of heart/circulatory problems has made me careful. I say to everybody: Keep an eye on your BP. Watch your lifestyle and take meds if you need them.

 

I'm on generic Lamictal, 100 mg/day. Don't have much to say about that. Trazodone for sleep. I started it after a year of struggling with insomnia; my therapist recommended Trazo and I love it. No therapist any more, by the way. I'm done with that. Dropped my shrink; my primary care doc prescribes my psych meds.

 

I'd like to taper off Eff and Lam but there are a lot of reasons to stay on. I won't go into them now; that's why I'm here.

 

I go on and off online forums (except Twitter, but I don't want to give my @ name here). My life has so many issues right now I hope I stay here long enough to examine my psych meds and find a way to taper off two and keep the rest. If there's anything I can help people with, based on my age and experience, I hope I can do so. Thanks for being here.

 

—Jill44

[Whatever]

Welcome.

 

No one uses their real name here, so please no worries.

 

I suggest you create a list. Put "there are lots of reasons to stay on" in Column A and in Column B list the reasons why you want to go off. And then do some research to support both sides of the argument.

 

One of the problems with pmeds is that when they create side effects additional pmeds are added to qualm the side effects. So once a particular drug is withdrawn it might not be necessary to stay on another pmed or any at all. For example, perhaps one of your pmeds is causing the insomnia, remove that pmed and you might not need Trazadone.

 

Understanding the side effects of each medication and deeply analyzing your thoughts and feelings about your condition as well as your beliefs and feelings about pmeds should lead you to an informed decision.

 

I suggest that visiting pro-medication sites would help, such as Crazymeds. There you can read experiential information from people who are in the same pmeds as you. That site also has detailed information about the side effects of pmeds that is well researched. 

 

So this may help you to connect the dots and reach the right decision for you.

[Altostrata]

Good advice, Whatever.

 

Jill, thanks for joining us.

 

From your post I gather you are on

 

Effexor 150mg daily

Lamictal 100mg daily

Trazodone ??mg daily

Hypertension medication ??mg daily

 

Adderall ??mg occasionally

Xanax .125mg occasionally

 

This seems like a LOT of psychiatric medications. If I were you, I would look at each one and figure out why I'm taking it. Is the Lamictal supposed to reduce side effects from Effexor? Is the Adderall to counteract drowsiness from the Lamictal? Are you taking trazodone to settle your system down so you can sleep?

 

The more drugs you take -- are you taking additional medications for other medical conditions? -- the more chance they are conflicting or interacting in ways that, all to often, are treated with more drugs. Are your doctors paying attention to this?

 

If I were you, I would take a hard look at your entire drug regimen and minimize the number of drugs you are taking. Take only those that are necessary to physical health.

 

As for dropping the drugs, I would definitely reduce Effexor first, very gradually, not reducing multiple drugs at once.

[Jill44]

Thanks for the replies, guys. I spent time on Crazymeds several years ago. I really enjoyed reading the down-to-earth discussions. Finally somebody was talking about mental illness, meds, side effects etc. in human terms instead of just repeating the party line. My meds are these.

 

Pmeds

Venlafaxine (Effexor XR) 150 mg

Lamotrigine (Lamictal) 100 mg

 

Hypertension (strokes run in the family)

Atenolol 200 mg

Triamterine/HCTZ (Maxzide) 37.5/5.25 standard dose

Verapamil 240 mg

 

Cholesterol

Lovastatin 20 mg

 

All at once first thing in the morning. If I forget until 3:00 pm or so I get brain zaps.

 

Alprazolam (Xanax) Tabs are .25 mg, I take a half (.12 mg) sometimes. Controls situational rage anger, anxiety, tears.

Amphetamine (Adderall) 10 mg when my mind is scattered and I need to concentrate.

 

I usually take these in the morning, occasionally together. I know, I know. I work at home, only take them when I really need them. I have them in my purse because I don't want to cry in public, don't want my driving to be erratic. I almost never take them when I'm out.

 

Trazodone 100 mg every night at bedtime. Insomnia probably caused by other meds, will get off trazo if I get off whatever's doing it, but insomnia may be unrelated.

 

I take vitamins, very carefully chosen: Multi for seniors, B Complex, Magnesium, Folic Acid, Vitamin D at bedtime with the Trazo.

 

Sounds like a lot of meds when I list them like this, but none of them except the trazo are to counteract any of the others.

 

—Jill

[Whatever]

Jill:

 

At least one drug stands out as causing multiple side effects. That is Atenolol which is a beta-blocker. I have taken every beta-blocker on the marker as it is used to prevent migraines and I have experienced severe side effects. Atenolol can cause:

 

Insomnia

Lethargy

Depression

Panic

Anxiety

 

Also, IMO 200 mg is an extremely high dose. Especially when you are on two other hypertensive medications.

 

So perhaps the Atenolol was causing you depression and you told your doctor so they put you on Effexor to treat depression, instead of considering it as a side effect of the Atenolol. This can easily occur when you see multiple doctors.

 

I am not saying this is what actually happen, I am just providing it as an example of what Alto and I are discussing.

[Jill44]

Ouch! I didn't know atenolol had such bad side effects. I had been depressed and anxious all my life, on and off benzos for years, tried to stay off. I guess the atenolol could have triggered a reaction, but the timing doesn't seem right. I dunno. Anyway, here's the story.

 

When I started on hypertension meds ca 1989, we started with the simplest, the diuretic. Later as needed we added drugs. Atenolol was the next one. Back then it seemed benign.

 

With the next increase in BP my then-doctor tried a calcium channel blocker. It has a coughing side effect, so when I mentioned my throat she just kept asking if I had a cough, and I said it was more like a scratching tickle, and she said it didn't matter. After that happened a time or two I came back to my office (3 people, we were very close) and broke down crying like a baby, screaming almost. My friends comforted me and said I'd never have to see that doctor again or take any more of those pills.

 

By then it had occurred to me that my throat might have been narrowing. My new doctor put in my chart that I'm allergic to calcium channel blockers, perhaps exaggerating but we agreed it was a good idea. Verapamil was added, and my BP has been stable for several years now.

 

Let's see, what was I saying? Oh yes. I think I'm stuck with the atenolol. My mother had a series of strokes with awful consequences, and her father had a fatal stroke in the pulpit during his sermon when she was only eight years old. I feel like I'm keeping a monster at bay.

[Whatever]

OK. But for the record Verapamil IS a calcium-channel blocker. 

 

Anyway, as I mentioned  it was not my intention to diagnose you nor tell you Atenolol was the source of your any of your conditions. I was only using it as a hypothetical example.

[Jill44]

I'm so sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I was taking offense. I wasn't at all. I know it was just a hypothetical example.

 

Of course you're right, it was an ACE Inhibitor not a calcium channel blocker. I didn't think I would need to look it up. Drat.

 

This is exactly the problem I'm struggling with. Wrong tone, getting basic things wrong, taking an attitude when I don't even realize I'm doing it.

 

Nobody in my life takes any account of this sort of thing, they say I'm overreacting to my own behavior, but I don't think so. It happens too often. It's damaging my life.

[Altostrata]

Jill, please don't beat yourself up for making a mistake. We trust our doctors to understand all these drugs.

 

Problem is, your doctors may not have taken a good look at them as a whole.

 

You are taking a lot of drugs that act on the nervous system. It could very well be that one or the other or an interaction has given you side effects your doctors are trying to treat with psychiatric drugs, further complicating your health issues and clouding your concentration.

 

If I were you, I might find a top internist to review your blood pressure drugs and others for interactions.

 

Back to the Effexor. Do you have capsules filled with tiny pellets?

 

If so, to gradually reduce, people take pellets out. See this topic Tips for tapering off Effexor and Effexor XR (venlafaxine)

[Whatever]

Jill - no worries!

[Jill44]

My primary care doc has a lot of good sense. She's aware I'm on all these drugs and we both know we need to dig into it and see what's what. I'll have to pay for the visit; Medicare deductible kicked in January 1.

 

She might give me a referral to a psychoneuropharmadoc. I live near Washington DC and we actually have those.

 

I'm at the end of my string, exhausted, hardly able to think straight. I'm having breakfast with an old friend on Friday, I can talk to him about all this.

 

Alto, you're a blessing. Thanks for writing to me today.

 

Bedtime. Heeere, kitty kitty...

 

Jill

[Altostrata]

Have a good night, Jill, and put unraveling this off until tomorrow.

 

I caution against expecting much from any kind of multi-syllabic psychopharmacologist. They tend to add drugs rather than minimize them. I would interview any potential doctor over the phone before spending money on a high-priced office visit.

[Jill44]

Good mornin' ev'ybuddy. I'm restarting this discussion because I'm tapering off Effexor XR. I realized that I had three choices: Stop now, stop later, or stay on Effexor the rest of my life. Finally I've selected the first option.

 

There are approximately 150 dots in my 150 mg pill. I remove ten dots and take 140 mg/day now. This is the third day.

[tezza]

Hi Jill44,

 

Welcome back!

 

I agree, Alto is truly a blessing! If not for her and this forum, God only knows where I'd be. I found a little late and suffered for a while but thankfully, not TOO late.

 

I've never joined any other forums besides this one, this is a good place to be. I feel like these folks are my best friends and Alto's advice is superb!

 

When you get a chance, would you add your drug history using this instructions in this link:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

Thanks,

Tezza

[Jill44]

Here are my questions.

1. Can we make posts appear newest first instead of oldest first?

2. Could this appear in Taper instead of Intro?

3. Does Effexor raise blood pressure, or conversely, can reducing Effexor cause blood pressure to drop? Mine is down to 96/63. Looks like I'll need to put my Verapamil back to the previous dose.

4. Is there a way to find someone who lives near me so we can have coffee and compare experiences with psych meds? I live in Montgomery County MD.

[tezza]

You can change the order of posts by:

 

1) clicking the little arrow beside your name in the upper right corner

 

2) then, click on 'my settings'

 

3) on 'my settings' page, click the 'forum' tab

 

4) there you will find options to change the order of your posts

 

The Intro section is where you update your own tapering information. You can use it like a journal to keep track of your tapering process. It comes in handy to look back and see how far you've come.

[Jill44]

I've tried resetting and the posts always appear in chronological order, oldest first. I'd like to see them with the newest first and I can't find a way to do that.

 

[later] I see that I can use the outline view to get to the newest post quickly. I'm off to watch TV. Thanks. TTYL.

[Altostrata]

Good to see you're tapering gradually, Jill.

 

The Tapering forum is for general information about tapering, rather than individual tapering schedules.

[tezza]

I've tried resetting and the posts always appear in chronological order, oldest first. I'd like to see them with the newest first and I can't find a way to do that.

 

 

Are you clicking the "save changes" button?

[GiaK]

Hi Jill! Welcome!!

 

it's me (Beyond Meds) from Twitter!!

 

Good to see you here! xo

[Jill44]

I've been tapering for six days, removing ten dots from about 150 every day. The 150 probably varies, but I'm not a scientist, so approximate is the best I can do.

 

I can't say enough about using embossed cardstock to remove the dots. The little indentations hold them perfectly. It's available in any Michael's or even dollar store or Big Lots.

 

Yesterday was sunny and cool, not wintry at all. Today will be the same. I'm glad I have that for some of the transition.

 

I've been in a great mood, even have some creative energy. Haven't had that for months. No negative side effects yet.

 

I wish we had a handwriting or calligraphy font here so I could dress up my

 

—Jill

[tezza]

Hi Jill,

 

I think your name looks very nice the way you have it but I'm a fan of calligraphy too. I did notice that your 'Jill' stands out, very pretty.

 

Thank you for sharing good news, it's very encouraging to everyone.

[Jill44]

Just wrote a long message, pressed the wrong key and lost it. Second time this week. Short version.

 

Effexor: Haven't notified Dr, wanted to give it a week.

 

Verapamil: Dr just doubled it but bp is too low in the morning. Need to take 4 pills, best would be first thing in the morning with the rest of my meds, then approx 1 pm, 6 pm, bedtime. I know I won't remember midday and the interruptions, with my ADD, would be a problem.

 

Plan to write a letter to the Dr. as soon as I decide what to do about Verap and let her react. There's little she can do, really. I'm the one who needs to micromanage my BP and my taper. I have to bring her the suggested solution, not the problem.

 

I have no shrink, gave him up when I couldn't pay him. Dr. reluctantly agreed to prescribe my psych meds.

 

Anyway, that's the story.

 

—Jill

[Meimeiquest]

Hi Jill,

 

My life was changed for the better by starting CPAP for obstructive sleep apnea. Feeling like your throat is narrowing, insomnia, high blood pressure, and psychiatric problems are all symptoms (but also symptoms of other things). My mom, sister & I all have it...although obesity, snoring and advancing age are all risk factors, it is essentially determined by the shape of your throat. Best, Meimeiquest

[Jill44]

My doctor has ruled out sleep apnea, but thanks for the thought.

 

My current symptoms, presumably from the taper, are indigestion, diarrhea and fatigue. All are mild and manageable so far, knock on wood. A little nausea, but that could be the tea. I think I make it too strong.

 

I'm sleeping much better. Today I sat in my reading chair and studied the data on one of my lines of early Virginia ancestors. I haven't used my reading chair for months. It was surprisingly easy to focus on the information and I'm adding to my database.

 

—Jill

[Jill44]

I remove 15 dots every day, which I think is 10% but I haven't counted an entire 150-mg pill lately. Side effects are occasional shortness of breath and fatigue. I'm forgetting to take my midday Verapamil. I've decided that when I feed the cats their dinner I'll take Verap at the same time. Kittehs never let me forget when it's 4:30!

 

The surge of energy from a few days ago didn't last. I'm overlooking obvious chores—and pleasures—again.

 

But basically it's all good.

[Altostrata]

You might lower the decrease to 12 dots per day, sounds like you're right on the edge of withdrawal symptoms.

[Jill44]

A, Thank you for the feedback. Am I supposed to make sure I have no symptoms? I hadn't thought of that.

 

I'd like to stay on this level for two more days, one day staying home and the next day going out and doing errands. That would be four days on the new dose. I'll watch out for unusual fatigue or breathlessness, or whatever else. If I have nontrivial symptoms I'll go back up, if not I'll stay at this level for, I dunno, a couple of weeks.

 

Is that reasonable?

 

 

—Jill

[Altostrata]

Right, try to taper so you have no symptoms, or maybe very mild symptoms for a few days after each decrease.

[dalsaan]

Hi Jill

We usually recommend staying on a dose for four weeks. Some people can taper with shorter intervals (and some

much longer). I'd go with the four weeks and see how that works for you

 

It's not a race

 

All the best

 

Dalsaan

[Jill44]

Let's see, today is March 10 and there aren't any symptoms. In fact, I feel great. Tomorrow I think I'll start removing 20 dots instead of 15.

 

It's a beautiful day Here Near DC. More May than March.

 

Jill

[Altostrata]

Jill, please don't rush it.

 

You've increased your decrement twice since mid-February, in fewer than 4 weeks:

 

I've been tapering for six days, removing ten dots from about 150 every day. The 150 probably varies, but I'm not a scientist, so approximate is the best I can do.

....

 

I remove 15 dots every day, which I think is 10% but I haven't counted an entire 150-mg pill lately. Side effects are occasional shortness of breath and fatigue. I'm forgetting to take my midday Verapamil. I've decided that when I feed the cats their dinner I'll take Verap at the same time. Kittehs never let me forget when it's 4:30!

 

The surge of energy from a few days ago didn't last. I'm overlooking obvious chores—and pleasures—again.

 

But basically it's all good.

 

 

You might lower the decrease to 12 dots per day, sounds like you're right on the edge of withdrawal symptoms.

 

[Jill44]

I'll delay the next taper for a while.

 

I'm sleeping better at night. That's a blessing.

 

 

J

[Jill44]

My appetite! I'm hungry all the time. I eat good high-protein meals, but I'm still hungry. I want dessert, and then after that I'll want something else. It's been going on for over a week.

 

I hope this side effect of the taper, if it is one, goes away. If it isn't, I don't know what I'm going to do.

 

But otherwise I'm fine, no effects as far as I can see.

 

Jill

[tezza]

Hi Jill,

 

I'm glad you're not having other symptoms. I haven't heard of increased appetite being a WD symptom but anything is possible, I suppose.

 

My suggestion would be (if you like) maye some baby carrots, broccoli, cauliflower...those would be healthy and maybe promote healing as well.

 

Maybe your appetite will return to normal soon.

 

Love,

Tezza

[FeelingAlone]

Hi Jill,

 

I'm going thru the same thing right now. I'm constantly hungry. I had dinner 2 hours ago and feel as though I could eat another meal....I don't mind it though because in the thick of things, I couldn't even manage to eat soup. Hope this reassures you a bit.