Bunyapine: an introduction

[Bunyapine]

I was put on Anafranil in 1987 for depression and OCD.  I have always had a problem with OCD, but 2 years after my daughter’s birth I became much worse.  I had a bad reaction to the drug, but I was told to persist.

 

I got even worse and switched psychiatrists, who put me on Prothiaden and a cocktail of other drugs, which I think must have dampened my body’s reactions.  It seemed to help to an extent and when Prozac became common he switched me.  Again I seemed to have no problems.  Over the years I seemed to feel an increasing buzzing feeling in parts of my body and very occasional palpitations.  I had tests and nothing showed up.

 

Finally I decided to come off Prozac, but could not find good advice of how to, I went to another psychiatrist as my previous had retired.  He reduced my dose by 10mg at a time.  I didn’t seem to have any problems for the first few months.  Later on I started to get tremors and they got progressively worse.  He couldn’t understand it.  You get the feeling they think it is all in your head!  They still do!  I didn’t understand it and thankfully I found this site, which made me feel I wasn’t a fraud!

 

When he brought me down to 10mg and I was having all these problems with the tremors, I didn’t go back to him as I felt he had given up.  I increased to 15mg and stayed on that waiting for the tremors to decrease.  They got to a background level in late 2017, so I decided to take it down by 1mg.  After doing that, I didn’t feel right so I went up to14.5mg.

 

Since then I have got worse with my tremors.  My OCD has returned with vengeance.  I was hospitalised wth atrial fibrillation overnight.  I have had all the heart tests and there were no problems.  My tremors are bad and I feel the OCD is making things worse.  Last year when I was feeling ok with the background tremors, the OCD was not a problem.  Now it is and I feel it makes makes my tremors worse.  I am rapidly losing weight.

 

Everybody says I should go to a doctor or psychiatrist, but if you mention SSRI withdrawal they go blank or tell me to leave Dr Google alone.  I come come out of their offices with no confidence at all.

 

Is it really a no-no to take something to relax me.  I am so frightened of drugs now, because I don’t feel these doctors know what they are talking about.

I

 

Edited July 7, 2018 by ChessieCat
spacing

[Songbird]

Hi Bunyapine, welcome to SA.  I think you are right about most doctors having no clue about AD withdrawal.  It's definitely not all in our heads!

 

When you say you "didn't feel right" at 14mg Prozac, what symptoms were you having?  Did they improve after increasing to 14.5mg?  Where do you feel the tremors?  Are they visible or just an internal feeling?  When did you start Humira and methotrexate? 

 

Some topics you may find helpful:

 

Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

The Dr. Claire Weekes method of recovering from a sensitized nervous system

OCD: obsessive thoughts compulsive behaviors

 

Please post all your updates and questions about your situation here in your introduction topic, and we will try to help you as best we can.

[Bunyapine]

Thanks Songbird. On 14mg Prozac I felt more tremors, so I went up .5mg. I didn’t go up to 15mg because I didn’t want to give in. I thought I could handle it. The symptoms didn’t improve but they didn’t worsen. I wasn’t game to go up more in case I had more problems. I find side effects of reactions to Prozac adjustment seem to take a long time to kick in, so I don’t want to risk getting worse! When I was brought down too quickly off Prozac, the side effects took 3 or 4 months to really get going.

 

My tremors are internal with varying intensities. I do have other symptoms:intolerance to heat, depression, increased OCD, lack of balance, sensitivities to food, tinnitus and occasional palpitations. The tremors seem to be all around my body, but more so in my legs and feet. Sometimes it feels like a buzzing. When anxiety really kicks in, I get the anxious stomach feeling.

 

I have been on Humira and methotrexate since around 2005.

[Bunyapine]

I forgot to mention that I was on a generic Fluoxetine, which was made by a compounding chemist. There was a lot of sediment in it and I was worried about it, so they made up fluoxetine powder liquid. I have seen that sometimes changing like that can be a problem. This happened a couple of months after my change from 15mg to 14mg then back to 14.5mg. Would this be why I am having a surge in anxiety, depression and OCD now? After the initial reduction from 40mg to 10mg, it took me a long time  to reach an acceptable level of tremors. When I reached this level I felt maybe I could attempt a reduction. I am now regretting it as I wonder how long it will take me to stabilise again. It seems to take me well over 6 months or even longer to stabilise to an acceptable level. 

[Bunyapine]

I keep getting people saying I should take something like Valium for the anxiety. After what I have seen here it seems a really bad idea. The anxiety increases the internal tremors I already have. I would like some information so that I can reply sensibly to them as to why I shouldn’t. I have never taken them. When I started with the tremors after suffering withdrawal, I didn’t have the anxiety problems I do now.

 

 

[Gridley]

Valium, like all benzos, is very addicting.  You can become physiologically dependent after 2 weeks of use.  Then you will have another drug, in addition to the Prozac, to get off.   

 

Here's a suggestion.  We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Please research all supplements first and only add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

In addition, there is a very simple yoga pose that I have found helpful for anxiety.  Lie on the floor with your legs up on the wall at something approaching 90 degrees for 10-20 minutes.  Support your head and lower back as necessary.

 

I have also found the techniques of Dr. Claire Weeks to be very effecting in coping with anxiety.
 

The Dr. Claire Weekes Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

 

 

 

 

[Bunyapine]

Thanks for the information Gridley. I knew Valium was a problem, but I am sick of people saying you should take this. I needed information on the problems with these drugs. I am having enough problems at the moment and don’t need more.

[Songbird]

On 7/9/2018 at 12:02 PM, Bunyapine said:

I forgot to mention that I was on a generic Fluoxetine, which was made by a compounding chemist. There was a lot of sediment in it and I was worried about it, so they made up fluoxetine powder liquid. I have seen that sometimes changing like that can be a problem. This happened a couple of months after my change from 15mg to 14mg then back to 14.5mg. Would this be why I am having a surge in anxiety, depression and OCD now? After the initial reduction from 40mg to 10mg, it took me a long time  to reach an acceptable level of tremors. When I reached this level I felt maybe I could attempt a reduction. I am now regretting it as I wonder how long it will take me to stabilise again. It seems to take me well over 6 months or even longer to stabilise to an acceptable level. 

 

Some people do notice a difference between formulations from different manufacturers, or between tablets and liquids.

[Bunyapine]

When the psychiatrist brought me down too quickly off Prozac, it took about 4 or 5 months for the withdrawal effects to reach their maximum. My last taper of 1 mg with a reinstatement of .5mg resulted in withdrawal symptoms reaching the maximum at about 4 months. Is this because of Prozac being a long acting drug? It also also takes me so long to stabilise ( 4 to 6 months). 

[ChessieCat]

Check out this topic:  are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

[Bunyapine]

I don’t know if this is the right way to ask this. I have internal tremors of varying intensity and I am continually losing weight. Last year I felt the tremors were just associated with withdrawal  as my anxiety and OCD levels were not a big problem. This year the anxiety and OCD levels  have really increased and I continue to lose weight. I have tried various foods and supplements, but as I have food sensitivities I have a problem. Does anyone have any suggestions for increasing weight? Everyone around me suggests Valium etc., but I am not willing to have another problem!

[ChessieCat]

I've moved your new topic to your Intro topic.  There are many existing topics on the site.  You can use the site search function or use a search engine and add survivingantidepressants.org to your search term.

 

Here are some topics I found:

 

tremors-shaking-body-vibration-internal-trembling

 

akathisia-vs-restlessness-anxiety-agitation

 

weight-gain-weight-loss-and-appetite-changes

 

[Bunyapine]

I don’t really understand what rebound is. Is rebound anxiety a return to the original anxiety you had before going on antidepressants, or is it anxiety which has been produced by withdrawal? I feel my withdrawal anxiety and OCD is so much worse than the original symptoms.

[Bunyapine]

Apart from reinstating a small dose of Prozac, are there any other medications apart from SSRIs that may help with withdrawal effects of  internal tremors, anxiety and ocd? From all my reading on this site, I gather it is not a good idea as things can get worse and that is the last thing I need.

[Carmie]

Hi Bunyapine, 

 

Please put your questions n concerns you wrote on my thread on your thread too as there are others that may be able to give you some input as well.

 

How are you doing? 

 

Sending hugs🤗

[Songbird]

On 9/7/2018 at 10:35 AM, Bunyapine said:

Apart from reinstating a small dose of Prozac, are there any other medications apart from SSRIs that may help with withdrawal effects of  internal tremors, anxiety and ocd? From all my reading on this site, I gather it is not a good idea as things can get worse and that is the last thing I need.

 

We generally don't recommend adding new drugs to treat withdrawal symptoms.  There are many topics here about non-med methods.

[Bunyapine]

@ChessieCat I also wondered whether I could have a reaction to the flavouring which seems very strong in this last bottle. Can you take it without  flavouring?

[Carmie]

Just now, Bunyapine said:

@ChessieCat I also wondered whether I could have a reaction to the flavouring which seems very strong in this last bottle. Can you take it without  flavouring?

 

Hi Bunyapine, 

 

Just wanted to let you know the tag you sent to ChessieCat on your thread here didn’t work. You have to press on the box like you did when you sent a message to her on my page. 

 

Take care, I have to say bye now as I’m struggling to think.

 

Sendung hugs🤗

[ChessieCat]

Your drug signature does not appear to be up to date.  There is no information for 2018.  Please add dates, drug/s and doses so that all the information is in your drug signature and we can see your history at a glance.  Thank you.

• details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
• summary for older than 2 years - just years and drug/s

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[Carmie]

How are you doing Bunyapine?💚

[Bunyapine]

Thanks for asking Carmie. I have been working at handling my ocd and anxiety all day, but I always find it harder later in the day. They keep talking about Christmas, but I have the feeling this will still be bothering me then. I remember my first one after I was brought down too fast from the 40mg. It was miserable, but it got better ever so slowly. Then when I brought the dose down late last year and changed from a generic to Prozac powder, the ocd and anxiety which weren’t much of a problem before became so much worse. My holds seem to have to be so long until I feel able to cope  again. I think people like you are so brave when you keep on tapering.

 

I will have to reply to ChessieCat, but am still working out how to move my posts. Hopefully my daughter will be able to help me at the weekend.

 

I hope you are going ok.

 

 

[Gridley]

Holding is making progress too--you are giving yourself time to heal.

 

2 hours ago, Bunyapine said:

Thanks for asking Carmie. I have been working at handling my ocd and anxiety all day, but I always find it harder later in the day. They keep talking about Christmas, but I have the feeling this will still be bothering me then. I remember my first one after I was brought down too fast from the 40mg. It was miserable, but it got better ever so slowly. Then when I brought the dose down late last year and changed from a generic to Prozac powder, the ocd and anxiety which weren’t much of a problem before became so much worse. My holds seem to have to be so long until I feel able to cope  again. I think people like you are so brave when you keep on tapering.

 

I will have to reply to ChessieCat, but am still working out how to move my posts. Hopefully my daughter will be able to help me at the weekend.

 

I hope you are going ok.

 

 

 

[Bunyapine]

@Gridley Thanks for that.

[Bunyapine]

@ChessieCat My drug signature is still the same. I have not felt able to reduce as my anxiety and ocd have increased a lot the further into the hold I go. Of course this means my internal tremors are a real problem too. In the first 2 years of withdrawal I was not troubled by anxiety and ocd to the level I am now. It only got a lot worse about 3 months after the last taper and a switch from generic to pure Prozac powder.

 

I get the compounded Prozac liquid roughly about every 60days. I asked the pharmacist about whether it was still effective towards the end of the bottle. She couldn’t assure me it was, so she suggested a 30day bottle. The last bottle had very strong flavouring, so I think I might just have liquid with nothing added but the Prozac powder. No fillers or anything. What do you think?

 

Thanks for your advice, as I see you have your own problems.

 

[Songbird]

45 minutes ago, Bunyapine said:

I get the compounded Prozac liquid roughly about every 60days. I asked the pharmacist about whether it was still effective towards the end of the bottle. She couldn’t assure me it was, so she suggested a 30day bottle. The last bottle had very strong flavouring, so I think I might just have liquid with nothing added but the Prozac powder. No fillers or anything. What do you think?

 

I don't know how stable Prozac liquid is, but when I used to get compounded paroxetine liquid the compounding company told me that a bottle, once opened, would last 30 days, so a 30 day bottle sounds reasonable to me.  I had mine made without any flavouring, and it tasted pretty awful, but I got used to it and it didn't bother me.  Now that I'm making my own citalopram liquid, I keep ingredients to a minimum.  It tastes about as awful as the paroxetine liquid did but that doesn't bother me.

[ChessieCat]

21 minutes ago, Songbird said:

it tasted pretty awful

 

You just need to have a "chaser" ready and to hand.

[Bunyapine]

Thanks Songbird. These things are not meant to taste pleasant are they?

[Songbird]

1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

You just need to have a "chaser" ready and to hand.

 

Exactly!  If you have something nice afterwards, you forget the horrid taste very quickly.

[Carmie]

How are you doin ng Bunyapine?💚

[Bunyapine]

@CarmieI’m having a rough time like a lot of other sufferers. My ocd and anxiety are through the roof. This first affected me more around April/May this year about 4 months after reducing dose slightly and changing from a generic form. This is October and I’m finding it really hard! I’m doing the Headspace meditation, but am finding it difficult. I’ve never had success with relaxation breathing, but I did find one on SA that doesn’t rev up my tremors. I’m hoping it will help, but it hasn’t yet. Last year with just my tremors and no high anxiety or ocd was a breeze! I have had the internal tremors since I was brought down from 40-10mg 3 years ago, but ocd and anxiety were not a problem until this year. Now I suppose my tremors are increased by the anxiety.

 

How are you going?

[Bunyapine]

@ChessieCat @Songbird I am having a really bad time with anxiety and ocd. I know reinstatement is no good because it is 11months since I dropped 1mg and then reinstated .5mg a short time later. I didn’t see any difference, but was hoping my destabilisation from reducing and then changing from a generic brand in January  this year  would not get worse. The internal tremors that I got right at the beginning when I was brought down too fast from Prozac complicate things as they get worse with the anxiety. I did not have this level of anxiety and ocd after the first reduction 3 years ago. It only got worse in Ap/May this year after the latest reduction. I am doing breathing exercises and meditation, but it doesn’t seem to help.

 

Is taking Valium really a nogo area. I really need some help.

 

[ChessieCat]

What is your current symptoms pattern?  If you have been keeping notes on paper it would be helpful to see the most recent ones.

 

Do you take your magnesium throughout the day?

 

The calcium should be taken 2 hours before/after magnesium.

[Bunyapine]

@ChessieCat I have internal tremors all day, but they are worse after waking and eating. I have been handling the tremors adequately during the last 2 years, but now they are made worse by this anxiety and the ocd. Anxiety ramps up after waking and is  not really helped by meditation or breathing exercises. The tremors have always become worse after eating anything. I understand the early morning being bad, but the anxiety and ocd come in waves during the day. Nighttime is better. I find going outside and doing physical work seems to take my mind of it. I just can’t relax.

I take a mega magnesium supplement am and pm. The magnesium is magnesium amino acid chelate (Meta Mag-Magnesium diglycinate) 500mg, magnesium amino acid chelate 750mg. Both of those add up to 200mg elemental magnesium. The tablet also contains zinc, VitB6, chromium and selenium. Maybe this is the wrong tablet to take. I also take a complicated calcium supplement. Again could there be problem there? I must remember not to take them together. The calcium supplement contains boron, Vit k and VitD3.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ChessieCat]

You might find that dividing up your magnesium into smaller doses throughout the day might help with the anxiety.  Vitamin B6 can be activating.

 

Have you checked out what side effect the Humira and Methotrexate  have?

[Bunyapine]

What is the most affective type of magnesium and how much do you take? Thanks for the information.

[Altostrata]

Hello, Bunyapine.

 

Did you ever have another bout of atrial fibrillation?

 

Have you conferred with your doctors about possible side effects from Humira and methotrexate? How are your vitamin B12 and folate levels? See this topic for B12 tests Vitamin B12 - essential for mood, nervous system

 

Please put ALL your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php
and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic.