VincentV: 2 months after sertraline

[VincentV]

Oh yes, ive still not heard back from my CPN. I don't know what good they can do anyway. 

[VincentV]

Well I had another appointment with the GP in the middle and of quite a bad week (I'm not sure whether a course of doxycycline might have contributed to what feels like increased depression /anxiety). 

 

The GP was lovely, I talked about my problems the issue of withdrawal and had quite a long conversation about meds. She genuinely seemed to acknowledge what I was saying and asked what I wanted. The admission of withdrawal was tacit but definitely there. It was both nice and actually profoundly scary. It was nice because I didn't want to be gaslit or meet with blank denial, scary because it highlights how little they (DRs) know about all this. She said I seemed very well read up and asked me what to suggest. I literally have a week or so to go away and decide if and  which med(s) I'd like to try. I get the feeling I could ask her to prescribe any psychdrug within reason.

 

I'd rail about how unbelievable such a situation was, you don't get cancer patients to suggest what meds they want to take, but it just simply reflects the current state of medical knowledge on this. 

 

I might ask to see if rTMS is available in my particular region.  A few months ago I was dead against the idea of going back on antidepressants. Now I can't really stop thinking about them, just fantasising about an end to the pain. My ex (who is supporting me through this) says I've been slowly improving, with ups and downs (instead of weeks of being awful, its mostly periods of a few hours). I dont know why I can't see it. 

 

She also referred me to the practices mental health specialist, which may or maynot prove useful. 

 

Honestly right now i don't know what to do. Things have technicallu improved but for some reason feel tougher. Maybe im just less detached. 

[Glosmom]

HI Vincent,

Just reading through your thread and wanted to offer continued healing wishes!!  Your posts 'sound' better so even though you don't 'see it', you are typing it.  Mods know best about if reinstating would be helpful but since it seems you are improving (although not as much as you would like) you are improving.  Would hate for you to turn back to meds when time is what will probably heal you best.  

 

Hang in there! glosmom

 

 

[VincentV]

Thanks glosmom. Its just so hard to see the wood for the trees sometimes. I'm crying alot more these days. I literally wasn't able to cry before. I don't know if thats a good sign or a bad sign. 

[herod]

That's not just a good sign, that's a great sign! Any emotional sensitivity is great. I was also on Sertraline and during withdrawal I could not cry even though I was in gut-wrenching misery for months on end.

 

We have almost exactly the same symptoms... agitation, akathisia, zombie feeling, tinnitus, short term memory and concentration issues...  I even have this images flashing in  your head symptom. But in my case, it's scattered bits of speech that play suddenly in my head.

 

I'd like to know about your sleep. Can you fall asleep at night? I always fall asleep at 6 a.m. but I sleep enough.

 

To give you some hope... I don't have many symptoms anymore except for falling asleep in the morning. Other than that, I'm pretty much fine. There is light at the end of the tunnel

[VincentV]

That's wonderful to hear Herod. Just hearing anyone here recover, or semi recover always feels like a minor miracle.  My sleep is normally 'ok', occasionally I have a problem like not being able to get off or early waking. Rarely do I feel restless at night. I call it 'akathisia' because sometimes it feels like I want to twist my feet a bit, but honestly I don't know what it really is, its just really unpleasant. It often comes on when I try an concentrate too much during the day. 

 

46 minutes ago, herod said:

I could not cry even though I was in gut-wrenching misery for months on end.

 

Its weird, the tears, though genuinely upsetting were probably the most pleasurable thing I've felt in over year. Hopefully there will be more lol.  Did you get your tears back? 

[herod]

As of last week, yes, my tears came back. I can finally cry about my situation. lol

Warm wishes of recovery to you

[VincentV]

Thirteen months after sertraline  (nine months after Mirtazapine)

 

I was going to stop doing monthly updates after the 12 month mark but it helps me keep track of how I'm feeling and what's going on.

 

I had another appointment with the access team, with a guy who said he'd only been doing this job for "two months". Honestly, I do not think he should be a vulnerable person's first point of contact. Fortunately I've been through all this before and my expectations are already essentially rock bottom. I am literally only doing this to explore my chances of getting ECT on the NHS, which is not impossible, just very likely).He referred me on to an actual psychiatrist and reassured me that I wouldn't get 'dropped'. We'll see.

 

Regarding the symptoms list, symptoms like the depression and agitation/irritability are still following the pattern of being worse in the day and then easing  up at night. I'd say things have stayed the same over the last month pretty much, though I did go through a more cheerful 'window' a few days ago for about 3/4 days. I can tell its a window because my default feeling goes from 'I am not going to get better' to 'I am going to get better'. 

 

 Over the last few days I've noticed my tolerance for sounds and certain peoples voices has improved.  I've also noticed that my rumination is a little less severe perhaps Ive been able to think about other things. Its quite funny (I mean its not really) but I read an article about the deforestation in the amazon which really p*****d me off and I started ruminating and obsessing about that in a way I wouldn't have done before. It was annoying at the time but it does help me clarify what's genuine and what's the affliction. I think it might be down to just resting a lot and consciously avoiding my triggers. I've noticed that if I spend the whole day lying in bed doing nothing there's a good chance I'll feel pretty functional by the evening, (of course then I reflect that I've wasted the day). It occurs to me if ME/CFS isn't a bit like this. You do too much and then are hit with this wave of super intense... I don't even have the words do describe it, maybe it is a bit like fatigue. I call it 'agitated exhaustion'. Its extreme what ever it is. Its not ME though, I can still get out of bed and do stuff.

 

So far nothing seems to be worse as far as I can tell though I have had moments where I've felt pretty cognatively disabled. Its sometimes just so hard to but how this feels into words. I don't have the 'lobotomised feeling' any more, but I still feel like my brain isn't working as it ought to, I still feel very 'changed' and unable to relate or really ever remember, emotionally at least, how it used to feel like to be me. I must still, I think, be severely depressed.

 

I'm flying all the way to Boston Friday and whilst I'm not dreading it (dread is too reactive an emotion for me seemingly) I just hope I can handle the fatigue and meeting people.

 

 

I hope every one else is doing ok. We'll all get through it.

 

[VincentV]

Fifteen months after sertraline (eleven months after mirtazapine)

 

I need some advice. First of all , just an update to let every one know that I am doing ok, I've also had a meeting with my p dr.

 

I have started volunteering once a week as a gardener and I have been seeing a lot more people socially, nearly every day now. I am careful though to try and get plenty of down time so the 'agitated  fatigue' I feel doesn't swamp me. My mood (though always up and down) still doggedly continues its slow assent upwards. I just find little things easier to cope with. Meeting new people. Sitting in waiting rooms. I can have the odd glass of wine and don't feel bad in the days after. 'Pure' anxiety though rare is definitely caffeine related ( I had a cup of tea in a restaurant and it messed me up for about 6 hours after). I sing to my self a lot more. Restlessness/akathisia is less. I have fewer earworms, sound bugs me less, people bug me less my thoughts are less ruminative. Even coming on here typing stuff out used to fill me with a  deeply painful depressed feeling, that's mostly gone etc. Its hard to describe but  things are just inexplicably some how a little better. I went to London to the theatre a couple of days ago and at one part in the play (which I still find frustratingly hard to remember) a bit of me shivered with what I can only imagine to be... delight? Though obviously I'm still very depressed/anhedonic/dissociated ore and more of me feels like its very slowly shining through. I still feel "brain damaged" but I'm some how just finding that easier.

 

Ok so the problem: so this morning I finally had a long overdue appointment with a psychiatrist. I went through everything as best I could and though he was polite getting him to a) understand my current problems and b) just acknowledge that I blamed my current situation on Sertraline was quite difficult ("a year is a long time to still be in withdrawal" err yes it is, so  help me!). He did what I expected him to do, despite the fact that I told him  mirtazapine had disagreed with me, he prescribed... more meds as well as suggesting more (self referral :/ ) counselling  services. I will engage as fully as I can with counselling I think I've reached a point where it might be a bit helpful. The meds in question were Venlafaxine for depression and (a new one for me) Seroquel to stablise my mood (my mood isn't unstable, I'm very depressed in the mornings and mildly less depressed in the evenings. I have no mania) for the depersonalisation/dissociation.

 

Hell no.

 

I have read enough stories on here and seen the s***show. It'd be like throwing napalm on a campfire. A short life SNRI and an anti psychotic. These 'medications' are not for me. How ever I would still like to get further treatment out of the psychiatrist though in the form of an a referral for something like rTMS or ECT and/or more counselling. I don't want to antagonise him by arguing too much.  How do I politely decline these drugs but leave the door open for further treatment options?

 

Has anyone had much experience/success negotiating with psychiatrists on this. What I really don't want is a dismissive 'oh you wont take these meds so we can't help you'. Any suggestions or advice would be much appreciated.

 

Hope every one else is doing well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Znarkz]

Hi Vincent, My name is Viktor and im a 31 yeard old male from Sweden. I have read through your updates and finding myself what i think is in a pretty much similiar situation.
I will start on giving you a little bit about my background and then write about my current situation to see if you find it something like your own.

I was put on Sertraline, Zoloft back in 2012 i think due to extreme anxiety symtoms that i was suffering from. It got pretty bad with the anxiety during my time i was studing at the university and eventually my situation wasnt bearable and i had to see a psychiatrist who gave me a prescription of Zoloft, starting at 50 mg then tiltrating up to 100 mg which has been the dose ive been on since my latest problem started around 1,5 years ago during 2017 when i decided to self-taper the drug out of my system. First of all during these 5 - 6 years i was on the drug i was feeling pretty good, some anxiety now and then but it pretty much made my Life a lot easier and my symtoms i was suffering from Before i started got a lot easier to handle.

Ok so now i fastforward to the end of 2017 in december i got the drug out of my body after ive tapered for almost a year, ive Always felt pretty bad when i lowered my dose and when it completely got out of my system hell broke lose for me.

Since then it was as if a switch was shut of in my brain, and during 2018 the doctors had me go up on sertralin again but the feeling was neverthe same, it was as if i had lost the ability to fully "feel" the World around me, as if the emotions had shut down inside of me.

So in the beginning of 2018 i had to go on a sick leave from work cause i couldnt handle my situation any longer. I felt extremly suicidal and as if it is suppose to be this  Life is not Worth living. So since the Sertraline didnt work as good as the first 6 year. the second half of 2018 up until this day i have been on first Escitalopram, 3 months, i wasnt pleased so they changed me to cymbalta, and i just couldnt handle it for more then 2 weeks(felt like poison), and then Venlafaxine 9 weeks.

And ironicly i was back on sertraline now from the midle of this summer to resently and i am now a 1 week of the drug because i cant handle the medicines any longer i havent felt myself both on the drugs nor off.

So this time i will give this time, and hopefully things will be better. Sorry for my rambeling.

The worst part is that i am Always ruminating about how i feel, It is as if i cant feel emotions the same way i could Before the switch Went of in my brain.
Im feel very apathetic in my brain but i can still behave normal and i dont Think people notice on me that im only half present. Its like my brain is wrapped in cotton. Emotions doesnt feel the same way, it doesnt impact me the same as Before, impressions from Everything around me feels like its all lacking something. It its truly extremely strange and awful. This has triggered an extreme OCD in me because its the only thing i can Think of all the time. So i ask my parents, my Brothers, my nearest friends if something feels of with me, and they Always answer NO. But i cant take it in. Im working on this with my CBT psychiatrist to find ways through all of this obsessive thinking and ruminations which truly is harder then it sounds.

Some of the worst part of it all is the sensation that i find it very hard to talk to people, it Always feel like i have nothing to say due to this lacking of emotions and detachment i Always feel with and around other people. It if my mind has been shut down and im very very very aware of it all the time.
I feel the dissconnection all the time especially with other people and and it has really taken a toll on me and triggers awful anxiety.

Its like its easier for me run 10 km then socializing with a hang out with a friend for an evening. What was a huge problem during this 1,5 years going on and off medicines was also the feeling of total exhaustion all the time, both mentally and physically. Though the physically exhaustion has been better the latest 2 weeks, dont know if that has something to do with me again going of sertraline(hopefully the last time) which has given me a Little extra energy or if that has just started to improve anyway.

So even if im a Little bit more alert physically the other issues has not improved, i still feel very disconnected from the World around me and i Always feel like im forcing me to do things even though it feels unpleasnt. The anxiety has ramped up since quitting the sertraline again, that i was expecting. Earlier i have just lasted maximum 4 weeks Before going back on the drug but this time i will force my self to make it longer to see if i can live without phsycoatric drugs in my system and to see if time will heal me.

I just felt so strongly from what you have been Writing and i had to also tell my story. What i now hope for is that the feeling of emotional detachment will improve, the loss of interest from Everything will be better , the ruminating thoughts about how i feel and experiencing the World and my interactions with other people will get to a Point where i no longer feel anxiety.

Sorry for my broken English, hopefully it is legible.

I wish you the best and the fastest of recovery, please update on your situation once again so we can hear more of your journey to a peacefull mind!

Cheers Viktor

 

[ChessieCat]

@Znarkz

 

Please start an Introduction topic for yourself so you can be supported:  introductions-and-updates

 

[VincentV]

Hi Viktor, 

 

I'm sorry to hear that you've had such unpleasant symptoms. I can relate to the 'brain wrapped in cotton' feeling and the rumination.

 

After nearly a year off all meds I have improved though I still have some nasty spells and the severe, foggy detachment, memory issues and anhedonia which have never really gone. The anxiety and rumination are greatly reduced though as are the earworms, mesophonia and other weird symptoms. Depression comes and goes. 

 

Do you think trying those other medications has left you feeling worse on balance or about the same? 

 

I'm going to be honest I dont know if I'll ever completely heal from this. Time has improved things and there are a lot of things I've just learnt to accept,like any chrobic illness. I'm living a different life now, half the battle seems to be just accepting that. The last couple of months have been (mostly) fairly serene. Don't put too much pressure on your self is all I'll say. Your body will get when and where it needs to be in its own sweet time. 

 

Kelvin 

[Znarkz]

On 9/21/2019 at 11:42 PM, VincentV said:

Hi Viktor, 

 

I'm sorry to hear that you've had such unpleasant symptoms. I can relate to the 'brain wrapped in cotton' feeling and the rumination.

 

After nearly a year off all meds I have improved though I still have some nasty spells and the severe, foggy detachment, memory issues and anhedonia which have never really gone. The anxiety and rumination are greatly reduced though as are the earworms, mesophonia and other weird symptoms. Depression comes and goes. 

 

Do you think trying those other medications has left you feeling worse on balance or about the same? 

 

I'm going to be honest I dont know if I'll ever completely heal from this. Time has improved things and there are a lot of things I've just learnt to accept,like any chrobic illness. I'm living a different life now, half the battle seems to be just accepting that. The last couple of months have been (mostly) fairly serene. Don't put too much pressure on your self is all I'll say. Your body will get when and where it needs to be in its own sweet time. 

 

Kelvin 

Hi Kelvin, 

 

It is great to hear that you have improved during this time. It think me myself have improved( maybe without seeing it so clear) also during this almost 2 years even though I’ve been jumping on and off different medications.

 

I still feel, what I think you are trying to describe also, a sense of detachment from everything and oneself and a lack  of pleasure and emotion from day to day tasks including just socializing. It’s weird.

 

Regarding your question, which I also have lifted with my psychiatrist regarding if the different medications I’ve been trying and not been satisfied with, if they could have worsen my situation, the answer from him was a clear no. That there is no permanent brain alterations from these kind of medications, that instead it is my mood and psych that is causing the problems. Depression, depersonalisation derealization etc or what words one like to describe it with.

 

It was good to hear that from a doctor, but still I am not sure if I can let it go that easily because I feel so different, as I’ve tried to explain.

 

Ive felt that in some sense, even though I’m more stable today, that while trying these medications, one after another, made my mood different from each time going on and of them, as if in some sense I’m feeling more cut off and detached, the more meds I’ve been going on and off.

 

Now I’m of medications for 1,5 week and I will continue, the anxiety isn’t really the biggest problem today it’s the other feelings/the lack of feelings more correctly that dampens my mood and make me ruminate about what the medications could have done to me etc that is the worst part. 

 

I want to give it at least a year if possible to see if things really do improve, if that’s the case I will try to never go on these medications again due to the altering effects they have, I want my brain to go back to equilibrium now, hopefully it does.

 

If one doesn’t feel that time heals, Then it might be worth trying medications again because then you got nothing to lose. If life is not worth living then what’s the point. Everybody should really try to do what they think is the best for them. But when it comes to the mind it’s so hard because not even the doctors know exactly why you are feeling the way you do and what could be causing it.

[VincentV]

6 hours ago, Znarkz said:

the answer from him was a clear no.

 

I don't know how he can say this to you, emotional blunting is a very well documented side effect of SSRIs. Its bizzare. He should know this. For example SSRI sexual disfunction is a recently recognised dissorder.

 

The good news, from what I've read, is that cases of emotional blunting like this often do resolve eventually (sometimes quite spontaneously). It just often takes a long time. Its a long journey on a miserable winding road that none of use expected or wanted to be flung on I'm afraid. We have to walk it all the same. Keep heart though, you're not alone. 

 

Can I ask, did you taper off your last med, and if so how quickly? If your ruminations and anxiety become unbareable in the next month or two I'd strongly advise you to reinstate sertraline at a lower dose  (if possible). You might just have to taper much more slowly. I wish I had.  Have you felt stable for any period(s) over the last couple of years? 

 

It does seem like we have a lot in common, being a ghost in ones own life isn't much fun. I wish you the best of like in your recovery. 

 

Oh btw, you might want to put your psych med history in your signature. Its quite handy and helps the moderators. 

 

Kelvin 

[Icip]

Hi @VincentV,

 

How are you doing now? An update would be lovely to hear!

 

Icip.

[VincentV]

Hello I thought I'd post a short update as  its been a while

 

There's good news and  bad news.

 

Bad News: I'm still, two years out,  very clearly in withdrawal/post acute withdrawal. Medication has essentially left me with a severe dissociation  disorder which leaves me very numb, depressed, divorced from the concept of time and prone to very unpleasant agitation/tension spikes and tinnitus. There are numerous other cognitive oddities too but I can't really describe them. I don't work at the moment(though before lockdown I was volunteering), though that's mostly out of choice. I am very lucky to have support and an independent income. I am just not ready to go back to my "old life". I can't really even imagine it right now.

 

Good news: I no long wake up every day wanting to die. I am numb, but not in pain (mostly). My mood has been stable (and gradually improving)over the last 6 months. I have been leaning piano since February this year (I still can barely read music but I repeat stuff enough it goes in) and faintly often now feel like reading books and playing computer games. . I rarely listen to music sadly. My sound sensitivity though unpleasant no longer stops me going in the garden. All of these were impossible a year or so ago. I had no concentration and little desire to do anything. I am at my best when I'm just in the moment focused on anything else other than "how I am feeling".

 

Progress has been very slow but it is tangible, other people say they notice the change too. 

 

My mental health team have recently suggested I reinstate my old medication, a tacit acknowledgement that I'm in withdrawal. I have the prescription for it in the cupboard. I have times, when I realise that I still have so far to go that I'm tempted. What stops me is knowing that I have actually come really far already and that I could be putting that in danger.

 

 

The road is long and its one I didn't want to take, but I'm still here and I am still determined to get better.

 

I hope every one else is getting through this.

[Icip]

@VincentV,

 

Hi, it’s hard to imagine ever waking up, and not wanting to die, not feeling like you’re in pain every second of the day - you’re getting there Vincent; unfortunately, two years still isn’t too much time spent in withdrawal, the fact that you can find relative peace right now says a lot.

 

Do you think the concentration/desire problems are dopamine related? I have this too - this I’m reluctant to overtly call it withdrawal, when our brains have gotten so ‘high’, they have to crash before they stabilise.

 

personally if I were you, I wouldn’t reinstate - especially after two years. You’d have to go through this hell again. Maybe throw that prescription out, I’d be tempted too, and I have been before.

 

Thank you for the update, I’m not sure whether you’re religious but: God has time in his hands, for you and for everyone; it’s just a matter of waiting for it.

 

Take care, I’m glad to hear you’re doing better!

 

Icip.

[Sofa]

@VincentV

Hi, how are you doing now?

[Vasherr]

Hi, @VincentV,

 

long time has passed since You last update, keeping my fingers crossed it means that You are feeling better and don't have the need to post anymore, but if by any chance You will see this post, please reach out and let us know how are You.

 

Wishing You a lifelong window!

V.