Scizzors76: 28 days on Seroquel, quit or taper?

[Scizzors76]

Member has benzo topic here:  scizzors72-3-months-on-30-mg-temazepam-help-me-taper

 

Hello,thanks for having me. It was recommended to me by another member to join. I have been on several psychotropic meds for sleep. I have been battling Lyme disease and hormone imbalances because of it. My major problem as been insomnia. The med I was on the longest which barely worked was Trazodone. I successfully tapered it over many months and came off on September 27,2018.  I was put on Seroquel at the the last 3 weeks I was tapering trazodone.  Docs were so sure Seroquel was going to work. I blindly believed them being desperate.  Now I have 28 days on or so with Seroquel and it doesn't work. Doc said to stop cold turkey. I didn't think that was a good idea, so I decided to taper a bit. Not knowing what to with just 28 days on, I cut one day to 37.5 mgs, one day to 25 mg and one day to 12.5 mg. The night I cut to 12.5 mg was the worst. Hot flashes, sweating and complete in ability to fall asleep at all. I am not sure what to do. I did another night at 12.5 mg but not sure if should go back up to 25 and taper slower or just continue at 12.5 for several more days then stop? Thank goodness I did not go cold turkey but I don't think I have done a good job here. Will this insomnia pass? It's worse then the insomnia I had prior. Thank you. 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by ChessieCat
added link to benzo topic

[SkyBlue]

On 10/1/2018 at 5:50 AM, Scizzors76 said:

 I did another night at 12.5 mg but not sure if should go back up to 25 and taper slower or just continue at 12.5 for several more days then stop? 

 

Hello and welcome to SA.

 

Although you were correct in your idea of tapering, those reductions were much too fast. We generally recommend tapering at a rate of no more than 10% per month. It takes a lot of time for our system to adjust to changes in these medications, especially if we have already been sensitized to these drugs.

 

To help us out, please create a brief drug signature, using these instructions: https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/18343-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/ Please list recent drugs and changes.

Having this information can help us know where to go from here. 

Depending on how recent your changes were, yes, it sounds like going up might be a good idea (but likely not all the way up to 25).

 

Insomnia is very common in withdrawal, and it will get better. Here are some ideas for dealing with it:

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/topic/53-tips-to-help-sleep-so-many-of-us-have-that-awful-withdrawal-insomnia/

 

 

Again, welcome to SA.

[Scizzors76]

mirtazapine 28 days on want to stop. Taper?

 

Had a situation of high cortisol that we are still working on finding the underlying issues. I needed to sleep. Temazepam was given to me at 30 mgs since October 1st. It barely touched the insomnia but worked better than a few other drugs we tried. Sleep declined but we have figured out it seems to be possible Cushing's and thyroid. At that time, 28 days ago they added Mirtazapine to further help sleep and lower cortisol. Well it's done it's job and I feel like Hell. My cortisol is low now at night and during the day. I need to come off Mirtazapine. 28 days on 7.5 mg, a few times I tried 3.75 to see if hangover was less. Can I cut the 7.5 mgs in half for a few night and stop or drop 1.88 and then stop? I am tapering Temazepam with the scale method but will hold that until I get off Mirtazapine. I have read that Mirtazapine can be worse than a benzo! Definitely want off since not on too long. Sleep is not great but I am going to have to make do somehow.  I can't tolerate thyroid meds well now that my cortisol is so low. Help appreciated.

 

Edited December 26, 2018 by ChessieCat
added topic title to post before merging with existing intro

[ChessieCat]

5 minutes ago, Shep said:

Please keep posting on your main intro thread about your mirtazapine taper so the antidepressant moderators can assist you. I would keep a journal of your symptoms (either here on the forum or on paper or a Word doc) to track your progress. This is a great format to use:

 

Keep notes on paper about your drug dosages and daily symptom pattern

 

When you have symptoms from other illnesses that overlap with psychiatric drug withdrawal symptoms, it can make it difficult to parse out what is causing what. A journal may help you determine what is Lyme or hormonal issues and what are your withdrawal symptoms. 

 

 

This is an example:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

[Scizzors76]

Thanks ChessieCat. I have a journal going and one to keep track of my sleep. 

 

Any info on how to get off Mirtazapine after 28 days?  Is a long taper necessary from 7.5 mg? I would like off this so I can focus on my Temazepam taper.  I read that at 7.5 that Mirtazapine doesn't really have antidepressant qualities, it acts more in histamine receptors? Not sure if that is true ?

[ChessieCat]

 

I've asked the other mods for their thoughts.

 

12 hours ago, Scizzors76 said:

I have a journal going and one to keep track of my sleep.

 

Please post the last week of your journal.  This can help the mods to assess your situation.  Thanks.

[ChessieCat]

Include the sleep info too please.

[Scizzors76]

hi ChessieCat,

 

My journal is mainly for sleep and I keep more of a food diary. 

 

My main reason for resulting to Temazepam and Mirtazapine were for the insomnia that hit me out if nowhere at the end of last year.  Had vertigo and sleep disappeared. 

 

My main symptoms are a still  nightwaking at 3 or 4 am, usually not able to get back to sleep, tinnitus, (gotten slightly better, got that in March of this year), lowered blood pressure, some dizziness and fatigue from the morning till earlier afternoon. 

 

I believe we are addressing the underlying issue but not 100% sure. Thyroid and adrenals are being treated.  My doc is full supportive of my taper of Temazepam. He feels Mirtazapine is helping at the moment and also doesn't want to taper 2 things at once. Not sure what to do really. I might have to agree that Mirtazapine did get my sleep to be a bit better. I sheerly think because it lowers cortisol. I had/have a cortisol issue. What's worse Mirtazapine or Temazepam, it a tough all..I don't like taking either. 

[ChessieCat]

Okay, then please keep a symptoms diary like the example above for at least the next 3 days and post it so that the mods are better able to assess your situation.  They may be able to pick up something from the notes.

[Altostrata]

On 12/26/2018 at 7:51 AM, Scizzors76 said:

I am tapering Temazepam with the scale method but will hold that until I get off Mirtazapine. I have read that Mirtazapine can be worse than a benzo! Definitely want off since not on too long. Sleep is not great but I am going to have to make do somehow.  I can't tolerate thyroid meds well now that my cortisol is so low. Help appreciated.

 

Hello, Scizzors. Is mirtazapine helping you sleep? Is the problem with mirtazapine the hangover the next day?

 

As you've been taking mirtazapine for a month, the need for taper is borderline. You might lower it by 0.75mg (10%) and see what happens. It could be that a lower dose of mirtazapine is better for sleep for you. See Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine)

 

Did you go on mirtazapine because temazepam stopped helping you sleep? If so, you may be tapering the benzo too fast.

 

Has Cushing's been definitely diagnosed by an endocrinologist? What test was used? How are you measuring your cortisol levels?

[Scizzors76]

Hi Altrostrato,

 

Yes,I believe Mirtazapine was what helped my sleep overall. I was on Temazepam first but it did not provide adequate sleep. Still would night wake and not be able to get back to sleep. I had a concern about being in a benzo so long so my doc asked me if anything had worked half way decent in the past. I said say yes, Mirtazapine. I had tried Mirtazapine around March/April of this year and developes tinnitus immediately. I was sure it was Mirtazapine, so I got off of it than. Months later still have tinnitus and need the sleep and wanted to be off a benzo. Figuring I already have tinnitus, what do I have lose I started it at 7.5 mg and it helped almost immediately. The low cortisol during the day now is a problem but I dropped down to 3.75 and might just stay there. My doc wants me to leave Mirtazapine alone and focus in taper Temazepam. I kind of agree.  Reading has my mind spinning tho. Lots say Mirtazapine is worse than a benzo but then I think so is insomnia. It's all bad Altrostrato.:( 

My cortisol levels have been check 3 times thru saliva and twice thru blood. My latest saliva reveals low all day and bedtime level which was the biggest problem, below range. I work with a bioidentical hormone doc who is very swidt and he told me Mirtazapine might help with my abnormal high cortisol but he warned me that it might affect day too. He was right. His thought was to decrease the dose and remain in Mirtazapine while trying to attempt to taper Temazepam. Ugh. At the moment I am grateful for what sleep I am getting even if broken, it beats where I have been, which was Hell with 3 kids. 

 

At the moment my Endo is not pushing the stim test partially because it involves taking a steroid! Yeah insomnia and steroids, spells trouble.no thanks. With my thyroid better and using CBT, they are content to see if my cortisol was just stuck. So they all agree to taper. But will my cortisol stay down is the question?

 

Thanks for replying, I am always reading your comments on it her threads. I really learn alot. Thanks for being here!

 

Oh, what dose of Mirtazapine is helping you at the moment?

[Altostrata]

2 hours ago, Scizzors76 said:

My cortisol levels have been check 3 times thru saliva and twice thru blood. My latest saliva reveals low all day and bedtime level which was the biggest problem, below range.

 

These tests are not adequate to diagnose Cushing's and don't mean much in general. Levels of cortisol in blood and saliva change all the time. An endocrinologist would use a 24-hour urine test.

 

Please back away from treating your cortisol levels, at best you're barking up the wrong tree and at worst, you could take stuff that could make you worse.

 

Reducing the mirtazapine might retain the sleep benefits while reducing the side effects. You'll want to take the lowest effective dose for you. That could be any amount between 0mg and 7.5mg. If I were you, I'd try a 10% reduction and observe for a week to see if it still helps you sleep.

 

See Tips for tapering off Remeron (mirtazapine) for the method to use.

 

Do not reduce the benzo and mirtazapine at the same time, you might put your benzo taper on hold while you adjust the mirtazapine.

[Scizzors76]

Altrostrato, totally forgot....had the 24 hour urine cortisol test and that is how this all started about cortisol.  Pretty much have been run thru the mill with testing. The urine cortisol test was the most significant find. So they followed it up with saliva and blood testing. 

[Scizzors76]

I have read the Remeron tapering guide. Thanks. Is tapering off a low dose of Mirtazapine say 3.75mg more difficult than that if say 15mg? 

[bubbles]

22 hours ago, Scizzors76 said:

 

I believe we are addressing the underlying issue but not 100% sure. Thyroid and adrenals are being treated. 

 

Do you mind if I ask about the adrenal treatment? I think that’s my next step too.

[Scizzors76]

Hi Bubbles.

 

Yes been a rocky road for me.  I think my adrenals are settling down a bit because I got my thyroid in a little better place. Thyroid and adrenals work together.  

 I eat gluten free, limited dairy, and limited sugar. Lots of veggies and protein. Heathy fats.  I had a saliva cortisol test done and they gave me a picture of what was happening. For a short time I took an adrenal gland large in the morning.  My night cortisol was very bad, just not sure why it go to out whack. I tried things like holy basil and phosphatidylserine. Just could not get it down to sleep. That's how I ended up on meds. 

[Scizzors76]

5 weeks on Nortriptyline...I want off, help please.

 

Hello, 

 

I am currently tapering Klonopin and have been for 3 months. I never needed to be on a benzo, it's a long story. I have a very good doc who has helped me and is very happy to help me get off all meds. I am left with 100 mg of Trazodone which I have been on the longest, since February 2019 and Nortriptyline which is the one I want to be off of ASAP. 5 weeks I am on it and the side effects of extreme dry mouth, urinary retention, and fast heartbeat are just the worst. 

 

My new doc who will help me taper had me go from 100 mg of Nortriptyline to 75mg and I did not have any issues. We have since tried going from 75mg to 50mg and my sleep became a nightmare. She had an idea of using 10mgs to help me get off this quickly. Take 60 mg for around 10 days,then drop to 50mg for 10 days and then to 40 mg...and so on....will this work? Once off Nortriptyline, doc said we will let my body settle and then taper Trazodone. 

 

Any help please?

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

Please update your drug signature using the following format so we can see your drug history at a glance (your current signature is missing the year for a couple of the entries).

 

Please create your drug signature using the following format.   Keep it simple.  NO diagnoses or symptoms please - thank you.

 

• details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
• summary for older than 2 years - just years and drug/s

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

Edited June 23, 2019 by ChessieCat

[ChessieCat]

I've asked the other mods for their assistance.

[Altostrata]

On 6/23/2019 at 8:33 AM, Scizzors76 said:

My new doc who will help me taper had me go from 100 mg of Nortriptyline to 75mg and I did not have any issues. We have since tried going from 75mg to 50mg and my sleep became a nightmare. She had an idea of using 10mgs to help me get off this quickly. Take 60 mg for around 10 days,then drop to 50mg for 10 days and then to 40 mg...and so on....will this work? Once off Nortriptyline, doc said we will let my body settle and then taper Trazodone. 

 

I don't know if it will "work" in the sense of your not having any withdrawal symptoms. It is a way to go off nortriptyline fairly quickly.

 

However, it's a linear taper -- it gets steeper and steeper the lower you go. This is not a good way to ease off a psychiatric drug.

 

If you're taking 75mg, I'd taper by 5mg (rather than 10mg ) every 10 days until you get to 50mg. Then, taper by 2.5mg until you get to 25mg. Then, taper by 1mg until you get to 5mg. Then taper by 0.5mg until zero.

 

If you get withdrawal symptoms at any point, stop tapering -- you're going too fast.

[Scizzors76]

I moved along with my Nortriptyline taper and I am at 5mg now. Sleep is a little disrupted but I am so glad to have less side effects of the drug. I have some lucid dreaming. If I have not had major withdrawal at this point, will it creep up on me or am pretty much thru? I am holding 5mg for 1 week and then dropping completely. 

[ChessieCat]

On 6/26/2019 at 9:20 AM, Altostrata said:

 

If you're taking 75mg, I'd taper by 5mg (rather than 10mg ) every 10 days until you get to 50mg. Then, taper by 2.5mg until you get to 25mg. Then, taper by 1mg until you get to 5mg. Then taper by 0.5mg until zero.  

 

 

[Altostrata]

17 hours ago, Scizzors76 said:

I moved along with my Nortriptyline taper and I am at 5mg now. Sleep is a little disrupted but I am so glad to have less side effects of the drug. I have some lucid dreaming. If I have not had major withdrawal at this point, will it creep up on me or am pretty much thru? I am holding 5mg for 1 week and then dropping completely. 

 

If I were you, I'd hold at 5mg for a month, then reduce by 10% steps. The last bit is often the most difficult.

[Scizzors76]

Topic title:  How long before you can start a taper on another drug, if you just finished a taper?

 

Is there a set time in between tapers? Do you have to wait very long before you start another taper??

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

Please update your drug signature so that it is current:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

I will ask the other mods for their assistance.

[Gridley]

9 hours ago, Scizzors76 said:

 

Is there a set time in between tapers? Do you have to wait very long before you start another taper??

  

 

We generally say three months.  However, also consider how you're feeling at that point.  If you're not doing well or facing unusual stressors or don't feel stable, wait longer until things are better.