M2019: Zyprexa / olanzapine

[M2019]

Hi everyone,

 

I’m also in the same frustrating situation. I was put on 15mg (10mg night 5mg day) olanzapine for the wrong reason 2 months ago (30/10/2018).

 

Biggest mistake of my life that I actually started consuming the pills. I never knew they were so bad. I wish I read up about the pills before, but that's history.

After 10 days I realized what pills I was taking, I stopped taking them quite rapidly going from 15mg one day to 10mg the next to 5mg the next to 2.5mg the following and then stopped until I started to experience withdrawal symptoms. After 10 days The insomnia was too bad and I was forced to go back to olanzapine and started to taper down from 15mg to 2.5mg.

 

I have now been on 2.5mg for a month and checking my options to go lower and eventually stop.

1. Has anyone else been successful with micro tapering going from  2.5mg > 2.25mg > 2mg > 1.82mg... ? it seems like it's going to take a while to get to zero.

I read @erer post that it IS possible.

2. I only have pills available where I live. no liquid olanzapine available. 
 

3. Should I lower the dosage every 3 weeks or precisely a month?
 

4. Will I be able to cut the pills precisely by %10 each month? the numbers get insanely small.
 

5. Will I be able to sleep? 

 

Thank you, I'm trying to get all the help I can get to get off these horrible pills.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2019 by ChessieCat
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[ChessieCat]

Hi m2019 and welcome to SA,

 

Thank you for completing your drug signature.  However, we need to be able to see the required information at a glance without having to read through it.  If we need extra information we can read through your posts and/or ask you for the information.

 

Please amend your drug signature using the following format.   Keep it simple.  NO diagnoses or symptoms please - thank you.

• details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
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Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

This is your own introductions topic where your can ask questions about your own situation and journal your progress. 

 

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

[ChessieCat]

Here's some additional information which might help you to understand what is happening:

 

Recovery isn't linear it happens in a Windows and Waves Pattern

 

Withdrawal Normal Description

 

When we take a psychiatric drug, we are adding chemical/s to the brain.  The brain then has to change to adapt to getting the chemical/s.  It might have to change something to do with A and then once that change has been made it affects B so another change has to be made and so on down the line.  It is a chain reaction, a domino effect.  That's why it's possible to experience such a vast array of withdrawal symptoms, and they can change, and be of different intensity.

 

The same thing happens when we take the drug away.  These explain it really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take

 

On 8/31/2011 at 5:28 AM, Rhiannon said:

When we stop taking the drug, we have a brain that has designed itself so that it works in the presence of the drug; now it can't work properly without the drug because it's designed itself so that the drug is part of its chemistry and structure. It's like a plant that has grown on a trellis; you can't just yank out the trellis and expect the plant to be okay. When the drug is removed, the remodeling process has to take place in reverse. SO--it's not a matter of just getting the drug out of your system and moving on. If it were that simple, none of us would be here. It's a matter of, as I describe it, having to grow a new brain. I believe this growing-a-new-brain happens throughout the taper process if the taper is slow enough. (If it's too fast, then there's not a lot of time for actually rebalancing things, and basically the brain is just pedaling fast trying to keep us alive.) It also continues to happen, probably for longer than the symptoms actually last, throughout the time of recovery after we are completely off the drug, which is why recovery takes so long.

 

AND

 

On 12/4/2015 at 2:41 AM, apace41 said:

Basically- you have a building where the MAJOR steel structures are trying to be rebuilt at different times - ALL while people are coming and going in the building and attempting to work.

It would be like if the World Trade Center Towers hadn't completely fallen - but had crumbled inside in different places.. Imagine if you were trying to rebuild the tower - WHILE people were coming and going and trying to work in the building!  You'd have to set up a temporary elevator - but when you needed to fix part of that area, you'd have to tear down that elevator and set up a temporary elevator somewhere else. And so on. You'd have to build, work around, then tear down, then build again, then work around, then build... ALL while people are coming and going, ALL while the furniture is being replaced, ALL while the walls are getting repainted... ALL while life is going on INSIDE the building. No doubt it would be chaotic. That is EXACTLY what is happening with windows and waves.  The windows are where the body has "got it right" for a day or so - but then the building shifts and the brain works on something else - and it's chaos again while another temporary pathway is set up to reroute function until repairs are made.  

 

[ChessieCat]

During any taper, there will be times of discomfort.  We strongly encourage members to learn and use non drug coping techniques to help get through tough times.

 

Understanding what is happening helps us to not get caught up with the second fear, or fear of the fear.  This happens when we experience sensations in our body and because we don't understand them we are scared of them and then start to panic.

 

This document has a diagram of the body explaining what happens in the body when we become anxious:

 

https://www.getselfhelp.co.uk/docs/AnxietySelfHelp.pdf

 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help ...

 

Audio FEMALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Audio MALE VOICE:  First Aid for Panic (4 minutes)

 

Non-drug techniques to cope

 

dealing-with-emotional-spirals

 

Dr Claire Weekes suffered from anxiety and learned and taught ways of coping.  There are videos available on YouTube.

 

Claire Weekes' Method of Recovering from a Sensitized Nervous System

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes

 

CBT Course:  An Introductory Self-Help Course in Cognitive Behaviour Therapy

 

Resources:  Centre for Clinical Interventions (PDF modules that you can work through, eg:  Depression, Distress Intolerance, Health Anxiety, Low Self-Esteem, Panic Attacks, Perfectionism, Procrastination, Social Anxiety, Worrying)

 

On 4/28/2017 at 4:03 AM, brassmonkey said:

 

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

 

[M2019]

Taper 10% or faster after 2.5 months?

 

I've been reading great advice on tapering olanzapine, however, I think I'm in a different situation. I have only been taking olanzapine for 2.5 months.

Do I still need to taper at %10 rate each month? This could mean 2 years!! just doesn't make sense for someone who has only been on it for 2.5 months.

 

What's the best course of action? I'm currently on 2.5mg after I tried quitting 15mg too fast and was forced back on it but then tapered slower to reach 2.5mg.

 

Any help will be great

 

Edited January 12, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title to post before merging with intro

[Altostrata]

Welcome, M2.

 

Are you sleeping okay on 2.5mg olanzapine? How did you taper from 15mg to 2.5mg? Did you get withdrawal symptoms along the way?

 

Since you already experienced withdrawal symptoms, it's likely your nervous system might be sensitive now to dosage changes. I know it doesn't seem fair, but anyone who's been taking a drug for a month or more is at risk for withdrawal symptoms.

 

We have many people here who have tapered off low dosages of olanzapine by tiny amounts, it's done all the time. Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

[ChessieCat]

This is posted in andy's success story.  However, andy hasn't logged in since mid 2018.

 

6 hours ago, M2019 said:

Hi Andy, happy to hear you fully recovered. Gives hope.

I'm currently on 2.5mg and by a doctors guidance I'm going to lower it to 2mg next month and the down to 1.25 the following month and then stopping.

I'm wandering how exactly you did it? Can you be clearer with what you did? There's only a minimum of 5mg zyprexa where i live. So I'm currently cutting that in half. The plan next month will be to cut the 5mg in half and chop some off the half so it's 2mg but it will be hard to know exactly how much I'm taking. I'm starting to get into a workout routine so I'll be fit to work out when insomnia hits. I'm nervous about the drops. But it has to be done. I just don't know what to expect. How long will the withdrawal symptoms last? If i have severe headaches can i take an advil pill to calm it? How will i deal with insomnia? How long will it last.

If you can give more information would be amazing.

Thanks!

 

[ChessieCat]

On 1/13/2019 at 11:45 AM, Altostrata said:

Welcome, M2.

 

Are you sleeping okay on 2.5mg olanzapine?

 

How did you taper from 15mg to 2.5mg?

 

Did you get withdrawal symptoms along the way?

 

Since you already experienced withdrawal symptoms, it's likely your nervous system might be sensitive now to dosage changes. I know it doesn't seem fair, but anyone who's been taking a drug for a month or more is at risk for withdrawal symptoms.

 

We have many people here who have tapered off low dosages of olanzapine by tiny amounts, it's done all the time. Tips for tapering off olanzapine (Zyprexa)

 

Did you see this response from Alto?  Please read the Tips for Tapering topic.

 

Please answer the questions which Alto asked.

 

Also, please update your drug signature so we can see your drug history at a glance.  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[hayduke]

Hi M2019,

 

I've been taking olanzapine for quite a few years now and am taking my time to come off slowly.  I was on 10mg for quite a while and am now below 2mg.  I'm quite confident that I'll be fine to fully come off eventually given patience and doing my homework.

 

I'm using a spreadsheet to calculate fine cuts.  I've done a daily microtaper for a bit but I found that was less comfortable than, say, small weekly or fortnightly cuts.  I'm now using Brass Monkey's method as a guide. 

 

I got down to 5mg using a pill cutter but for more accuracy switched to Rhiannon's method of crushing the tablet in a known quantity of clean water, agitating it thoroughly, then drawing out and discarding the waste portion with a large syringe (no needle) and drinking the rest.  It won't dissolve but it makes an well-enough mixed suspension to work with for a few minutes.

 

You might find you can taper faster than 10% but I'd suggest starting with it as a guide.  For me personally I've found 10% to be about as fast as I care to descend.  When I tried 12.5% my body's like yeah, nah mate, hang about while I catch up...  Once you've settled in with say a 10% start you're likely to have a good sense of when you can go faster and when your body's telling you to hold or slow down.  Many people find it worth going slower and if I have a lot on I'll slow down for a bit too.

 

Cheers