mdv42: looking for help

[mdv42]

Admin note: link to benzo forum thread - mdv42: Paws? Help!

 

I have been dealing with chronic insomnia for over 4 months now. I have been on multiple failed meds and my current Dr thinks my issues my have started from Ativan 1 mg that was I was taking over a few months this past winter. I recently have been prescribed klonopin .5mg in late March and have been taking them in between other failed meds in about a total of 40+ pills. Most recently I have been on them for about 2 weeks, but they do not seem to help and my dr wants me taper off via tid with slowly adding in valium after I told her about the Ashton Manual in which she was unfamiluar but said lts try it? I am unsure if she is following the right method as I have been on such a low dose and a short period of time and any suggestions would be greatly apprecieted! I have been feeling terrible getting 2 to 3 hours of sleep and really want to try to get back to a natural old self!! She also wants me to start lexapro in which I have not as she thinks it will help my anxiety. HELP!!! 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Shep
added link to benzo forum thread

[ChessieCat]

Hi mdv and welcome to SA,

 

I've moved your topic to the Introductions forum.  Each member has an introduction topic where they can ask questions about their own situation and journal their progress.  Once we have some more information you may be asked to start a topic in the Benzo forum.

 

Q:  Have you been taking your drug/s daily (or 2 or more times during the day) or as needed (PRN)?  Please post drug/s, time and dose in a simple list in a post.

 

6 hours ago, mdv42 said:

She also wants me to start lexapro in which I have not as she thinks it will help my anxiety.

 

I think it would be better not to add anything at this time.  It will only confuse things.

 

 

Please create your drug signature using the following format.   Keep it simple.  NO diagnoses or symptoms please - thank you.

• details for last 2 years - dates, ALL drugs, doses
• summary for older than 2 years - just years and drug/s

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

[Altostrata]

Welcome, mdv. What is your current drug schedule and sleep schedule? What time of night are you able to sleep?

[mdv42]

Hi Altostra. It’s kind of a messed about 5 months, but most recently I have been the past 2 months I have gone back and forth between Mirtazapine and Klonopin, stopped the Mirtazapine 2 weeks ago and have been doing up to .75 mg klonopin per day but it has been hardly helping and makes me feel worse. On average, I got to bed around 12, get between 2 to 3 hours sleep and have more issues getting back to sleep. I have been trying CBT-I, but it has not worked. My dr now want me to lower the klonopin and bring in Valium, tried it last night (.25 klonopin and .5 Valium) slept 3 hours and feel horrible. My dr also wants me to start lexapro for ongoing anxiety and depression, but I have been scared to start. I feel just defeated and would like to get off all drugs and be myself again. 

[Altostrata]

What hours do you sleep?

 

I need to know the times of day you take your drugs and the timing of your symptoms. Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms. You can post them in this topic with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

We need to see your baseline symptom pattern.

 

If I were you, I would not start Lexapro. Of course you feel awful. My guess is you're suffering from a combination of psychiatric drug withdrawal and benzo rebound.

 

To help us out, follow these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature You may need to use a computer to do this.

 

[TriD]

If you are taking mirtazapine for sleep try a low dose.. higher doses have a paradoxical effect in that the noradrengic factor in it will counter the effects of the antihistamine. For me i took 4mg and slept well..7.5mg knocks me out for 12hrs and feel drowsy all day.. 15mg and im non functioning. If a low dose works for you its better in not having to do a very long taper if you ever need to stop but taper will be required. 

 

Its usually a drug to treat major depression in thebhigh doses 30mg but its prescribed off label for sleep as it makes some people very drowsy. This is why my psychiatrist gave it to me for but he didnt tell me about the doses.. i found out by reaserching it online... then took it out of the bin and used it when i realise i had been using a too high dose. Heh.

[ChessieCat]

28 minutes ago, Altostrata said:

Please keep daily notes of times of day you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms. You can post them in this topic with a simple list format with time of day on the left and notation (symptom, drug and dosage) on the right.

 

This is an example of what Alto requires:

 

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8 a.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
10 a.m. Stomach is upset
10:30 a.m. Ate breakfast
11:35 a.m. Got a headache, lasted one hour
12:35 p.m. Ate lunch
4 p.m. Feel a bit better
5 p.m. Took 2.5mg Lexapro
6 p.m. Ate dinner
9:20 p.m. Headache
10:00 p.m. Took 50mg Seroquel
10:20 p.m. Feeling dizzy
10:30 p.m. Fell asleep
2:30 a.m. Woke, took 3mg Ambien (NOT "took 1/2 tablet Ambien")
2:45 a.m. Fell asleep
4:30 a.m. Woke but got back to sleep

[mdv42]

Thank you, I have seen multiple Drs and this is the most and best  information I have received! 

 

I fall all asleep about 1230 and wake between 2 (on a bad night) and 3. I then try to stop my mind and get back to sleep and may have a moment of 10 to 20 minutes before giving up and getting out of bed at 6. 

 

Part of me wonders if this goes back to the Ativan I was taking over the winter 1mg most days. In late January I started experiencing insomnia, i was prescribed multiple meds in a short period trazadon, Ambien, temezapam, seroquil, and a few others that nothing worked or gave me sides effects. Most recently I have gone back and forth between Mirtazapine 7.5 to 15mg bid which did not work for sleep and then onto the current klonopin.5 mg that I have been taking bid and .25 as need for panic/anxiety in which I have tried not to take as much because i do not want to become addicted, which may be to late. I have been doing this for about over 2’weeks, but also had been on it in March/April for about 2 weeks give or take. 

 

My symptoms are racing heart upon waking, nausea, fog, severe depression, racing thoughts, memory issues, and hand tremors to think of a few. 

 

I agree reed with the Lexapro, my dr thinks it will help my anxiety/depression, I just want my natural brain back. 

 

 

 

[mdv42]

50 minutes ago, TriD said:

If you are taking mirtazapine for sleep try a low dose.. higher doses have a paradoxical effect in that the noradrengic factor in it will counter the effects of the antihistamine. For me i took 4mg and slept well..7.5mg knocks me out for 12hrs and feel drowsy all day.. 15mg and im non functioning. If a low dose works for you its better in not having to do a very long taper if you ever need to stop but taper will be required. 

 

Its usually a drug to treat major depression in thebhigh doses 30mg but its prescribed off label for sleep as it makes some people very drowsy. This is why my psychiatrist gave it to me for but he didnt tell me about the doses.. i found out by reaserching it online... then took it out of the bin and used it when i realise i had been using a too high dose. Heh.

 

The Mirtazapine did not work for me, even in the lower dose. I would wake up after 3 hours and feel drugged. My Dr wanted to raise it 30 mg before I stopped it and started back up the klonopin. 

 

Edited June 16, 2019 by ChessieCat
added quote

[Altostrata]

Still need to know your drug schedule. Please post your daily notes.

[Shep]

Welcome to the forum, Mdv.

 

Please see ChessieCat's post here. 

 

The reason we request this information in this format is so we can see your symptoms within the context of when you take your drugs. This allows us to notice rebound benzo symptoms and interdose withdrawal issues, along with other helpful information that can inform your taper. 

 

If you can do this for a few days, we can help you set up the best game plan going forward. Please post this daily here in your thread. 

 

We also need a signature. 

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

• Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
• This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

[mdv42]

16 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Still need to know your drug schedule. Please post your daily notes.

6/14

6 a.m. Woke with anxiety
8:00. Ate breakfast 
9:00 got to work 

930 anxious, stiff neck, shortness of breath, uncomfortable, sick feeling 
11 am Took .15 mg klonopin 
7pm dinner

 

6/15
12:00 am Reduced .5mg to 25 mg klonopin/ added in .5 mg Valium  per doctor to start taper /switch
2:00 am woke up 

better and go out for

dinner

11pm wondering what dose I should take after last nites nightmare 

1130 split .5 klonopin in quarters. Slept for an hour, woke up took another quarter, repeated

until I took all 4 with broken sleep until getting out of bed completely at 7am 

7am feel anxious, nausea, tired but cannot sleep, sad and just out of it. 

 

6/16

felt crappy all day

1130pm took .5 mg klonopin bid

230 am woke and have been up all night

 

 

 

[Shep]

46 minutes ago, mdv42 said:

12:00 am Reduced .5mg to 25 mg klonopin/ added in .5 mg Valium  per doctor to start taper /switch

 

46 minutes ago, mdv42 said:

1130 split .5 klonopin in quarters. Slept for an hour, woke up took another quarter, repeated

until I took all 4 with broken sleep until getting out of bed completely at 7am 

 

Did you just start the crossover to Valium? And do you mean .5 mg (with a decimal) Valium or 5 mg? 

 

.5 mg Valium is equal to only .025 mg Klonopin (per the equivalency chart, Klonopin is 20 times more potent than Valium). So reducing from .5 mg Klonopin to only .5 mg Valium is a major decrease. .25 mg of Klonopin is equal to 5 mg. This is why I want to double-check your decimal. 

 

I'm unclear what the plan is for the crossover and if crossing over is even a reasonable option at this point. Please give us the full details of how your doctor said to crossover and let us know how you feel about this. You've had so many changes, I fear that adding in another change is going to make you worse. 

 

The reason some people crossover to Valium is because of Valium's long half-life, but Klonopin also has a long half life (18 - 50 hours). So the crossover may be unnecessary. 

 

Please post your thoughts. 

[mdv42]

Thank you! They are following the Ashton Manuel, but I think your right. I need someone to help me with a taper plan from the klonopin 1mg bid (with the occasional .125 for anxiety) 

[Shep]

How often are you taking the occasional dose for anxiety?

 

Please set up a signature. Moderators don't have the time to read through your thread to know what you're taking, so it will save the staff time, as well as help prevent mistakes because we don't know what you are taking and may miss information.

 

Please add a signature.  Include drugs, doses, dates, and discontinuations & reinstatements in the last 12-24 months. Also include supplements. This will help us give you the most accurate advice we can. 

• Any drugs and supplements prior to 24 months ago can just be listed with start and stop years. 
• Please use actual dates or approximate dates (mid-June, Late October) rather than relative time frames (last week, 3 months ago) 
• Spell out months, e.g. "October" or "Oct."; 9/1/2016 can be interpreted as Jan. 9, 2016 or Sept. 1, 2016. 
• Please leave out symptoms and diagnoses. 
• A list is easier to understand than one or multiple paragraphs. 
• This is a direct link to your signature:  Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

[mdv42]

Topic title:  Klonopin to Valium

 

How long does one have to switch back if the Valium is making them sick?

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[mdv42]

Topic Title:L  Started my taper 2mg off

 

I used this online calculator :

https://clincalc.com/Benzodiazepine/

 

which showed me .5 klonopin is 8 mg of Valium (liguid) and I went off that and I feel like I have been sick and tapered to fast. Now I'm down to 5.5 mg and it has been over a month. I don't know if I should hold, or up dose? 

 

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[mdv42]

My Doctor told me to just stop taking this after I took for less than 3 weeks. Was that wrong? I have been on klonopin and now Valium since and feel like I have withdrawel symptoms from my taper, but maybe part of it is from the Mirtazapine?

 

Ativan 1mg 2007 - 10/2018 PRN
Ativan 1 mg 11/2018 - 1/2019 up to 1 mg a day on occasion 2mg due to stress/anxiety/IBS and sleep
1/2019 ( end of January) - INSOMNIA 
Atiivan up to 2MG 1/2019 - for  days (didn't work)  dr took me off c/t
Trazadone 50 MG up to 100mg 2/8 7 pills 8
Ambien 5 mg 2/12 3 pills 
Ambien 2/15 6.25 mg 3 pills 
Ambien 2/20 12.5 mg 1 pill
Ativan 2/20 1 mg 2o pills as needed for anxiety 
Temazapam 2/25 7.5 mg 3 mg 
Eszopiclone 2/27 2 mg 2 pill 
Mirtazapine 2/28 7.5 7 pills 
Mirtazapine 3/15 15 mg 4 pills 
Celexa  4/10 10 mg 16 pillls 
Ativan 4/10 .5 mg 4 tid - 
Klonopin 4/12 .5  twice a day
Seroqual 4/22 50mg 6 pills 
Seroqual 4/28 100 mg 1 pill 
Mirtazapine 5/2019 15mg 14 pills 
Klonopin 5mg 6/2019 
Valium Taper 1mg 2 wk

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by ChessieCat
removed background grey

[mdv42]

Topic title:  Restart HELP PLEASE!!

 

Last month i transitioned from.50 klonopin to 8 mg of Valium using an online scale that was wrong. I have been tapering down to 5 mg and feel awful. Should I restart?

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

I've asked the other mods for their assistance.

[Shep]

14 minutes ago, ChessieCat said:

I've asked the other mods for their assistance.

 

Thanks, CC. Please note that Mdv42 has started a benzo forum thread.

 

mdv42: Paws? Help!

 

@mdv42 Please follow up in the above link.

[mdv42]

Topic title:  Dopoxen

 

Has anyone used this for insomnia while tapering benzo?

Thanks!

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by ChessieCat
added topic title

[ChessieCat]

1 hour ago, mdv42 said:

Dopoxen

 

SA encourages members to trynmon drug techniques for insomnia.

 

This is SA's topic:  Sleep problems - that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

I did a search for the drug name you gave but could not find anything.  Please check the spelling.  You might mean Doxepin which is an older tricyclic antidepressant (TCA) sometimes prescribed for sleep issues.  If you mean Doxepin, because it is another psychiatric drug we would not recommend it.

 

There are many existing topics on this site.  Before creating a new topic please do a site search or use a search engine and add survivingantidepressants.org to the search term.

 

Edited August 29, 2019 by ChessieCat