AgainAlisia: Hello and help/advice

[AgainAlisia]

Hello, I am new here. 

Here is my history: 

Took benzos for cancer treatment concurrent with tamoxifen (estrogen depleter) in 2011. Never had taken any psych drugs before this. Took them PRN for two years until they gave me harm OCD and I self-admitted to crazy hospital.

 

Two weeks before I self-admitted, the Primary gave me Lexapro to get rid of the OCD, I think it sent me over the edge and prompted 4 days of complete insomnia.

 

In hospital stopped taking Lexapro and tamoxifen--they gave me a ton of benzos to sleep. When I got out, a psych kept giving me Klonopin, said it would help. I took it PRN for a year while he also tried Effexor and Remeron because I wasn't sleeping (no more than 2 days on each) before I figured out that benzos were the problem.

 

Found Benzo Buddies.

 

Started valium crossover taper in spring of 2014, given zoloft that summer to help with benzo taper. Tapered off both successfully over 2.5 and 1/2  year respectively.  

 

Was doing great for the last two years. Had high anxiety this fall due to menopause. Doctor gave me prozac. 5 mg. for one week, 10 for the second. On day 13 I had a complete doom panic attack and stayed awake all night. Doc said discontinue meds immediately.

 

Now one week later, have not slept more than two hours per night. Feeling the same way I felt on benzos.

 

Mad at myself  and the old terror that I have completely ruined my brain this time.

 

Thank you for listening!

[Sassenach]

Hello   Again Alisia     and welcome to SA.

 

This site is run entirely by volunteer Administrators and Moderators, all have been through or going through withdrawal.

There are no commercial interests or influences  involved .

 

I am sorry you are having such a rough time but you are now in the right place.

I do not have much time at present but can make a recommendation.

Provided this info. is correct;

You stopped taking 10 mgs of Prozac one week ago.

You should immediately reinstate a low dose of Prozac to mitigate withdrawal symptoms which is what you are suffering.

I would suggest a dose 1mg to begin with.

The link below will explain how and why reinstatement at a small dose works to stabilise your CNS ( central nervous system )

about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

If you have tablets the link below will explain how to make a liquid for the dose you require.

how-to-make-a-liquid-from-tablets-or-capsules/

how-to-calculate-dosages-and-dilutions-spreadsheets-and-calculators/

If you are having problems please post on this thread as there may be other mods or members online who can help.

I will post here tomorrow with a full introduction.

Good luck.

 

Sassenach

 

[AgainAlisia]

Thank you for your help. I am sorry I did not check this sooner. I have been preoccupied with symptoms/insomnia. 

 

I am now two weeks as of today. My doc said get off, stay off.

 

I have had trouble sleeping and the last two days a few mental panic attacks. Could this all be from the drug? How long will this go on?

 

Will CBD oil help?

 

If anyone else has any thoughts, please let me know.

 

Thank you!

Alisia

[Sassenach]

Hi Alisia

 

Please read the link below, it will explain what doctors do not know, or will not admit about how addictive these drugs are.

 

are-we-there-yet-how-long-is-withdrawal-going-to-take/?do=findComment&comment=354113

 

Put simply, your doctor is wrong.

The drug has already initiated changes to your brain, taking it away suddenly will destabilise your CNS ( central nervous system ) further.

Unfortunately without reinstatement the symptoms will get worse.

On 10/3/2019 at 9:38 PM, AgainAlisia said:

Doctor gave me prozac. 5 mg. for one week, 10 for the second. On day 13 I had a complete doom panic attack and stayed awake all night. Doc said discontinue meds immediately.

 

Your doctor pushed the dose up too quickly and then ripped it away.

As you are still only two weeks off the med time is on your side.

You can afford to wait a week and see how symptoms develop.

Within one month is the best timeline for reinstatement, the sooner it is done the more likely it is to be successful.

Have a look at other members threads there is a lot of info on them.

 

Sassenach

[Sassenach]

32 minutes ago, AgainAlisia said:

Will CBD oil help?

 

The only supplements we recommend are fish oil and magnesium.

magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

[AgainAlisia]

I am so confused. So, I should wait a week until a week is over and if I am sleeping again, then I will be okay?

Thank you for your help,

Alisia

[Sassenach]

5 minutes ago, AgainAlisia said:

I am so confused. So, I should wait a week until a week is over and if I am sleeping again, then I will be okay?

The choice is yours Alisia.

The decision is yours but waiting a week will make little  difference to successful reinstatement.

The following is the site's official advice,

If someone has JUST quit the drug, please immediately respond with recommendation for low-dose reinstatement before asking for additional information. Example: "Do you have any of [drug] left? Can you take 1/4 tablet [or 10 beads out of the capsule]? This probably will help stop withdrawal symptoms." (The drug amount should be a fraction of their last dosage.)

I am sorry you are confused but we can only give the facts as we know them.

It is certainly true that stopping a drug suddenly ( cold turkey ) will cause W/D symptoms even after a couple of weeks of taking the drug.

Those symptoms can take many months to abate.

Reinstatement and subsequent tapering can make the process more bearable.

about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-reduce-withdrawal-symptoms/

I hope this has clarified.

 

Sassenach

 

 

[AgainAlisia]

But the drug made me have suicidal anxiety. Wouldn’t going back on it make that potentially happen again?

[Sassenach]

Your doctor increased your dose too quickly which could have caused an adverse reaction.

You would only restart a small dose possibly 1mg.

If you experienced a bad reaction you could stop immediately.

Have your symptoms increased.

Are they currently bearable?

 

Sassenach

[AgainAlisia]

Hi Sass! They are bearable save for the sleep, which is why she took me off them as I got insomnia on them.

[Sassenach]

Have you tried melotonin to help with sleep?

[AgainAlisia]

No should I do that?

I thought the only supps were magnesium and fish oil

[AgainAlisia]

Hi Sass, last night I got a lot of sleep I think my body was exhausted. 

 

I am mostly mad at myself. I was anxious, that’s all, and now I actually FEEL worse—adding periods of sadness/apathy to the mix after taking the med than I did before and I am terrified that after all my hard benzo withdrawal work that I am redamaged permanently.

[Sassenach]

Hi Alisia

First I should apologise for not spending more time on my responses to you.

On at least a couple of occasions I was about to log off when you posted.

On another I was dealing with another member.

You had been fine for two years after previous drugs so there is no reason to believe you will not be again.

As you have been here before you will know it takes time.

Our brains carry out much of the repair work during sleep which is why insomnia in withdrawal is undesirable.

We do only recommend two supplements but as in all things balance is essential.

If you are not sleeping then it takes longer to get better, so we  compromise with what works for each of us.

It is good that you  slept better last night.

If insomnia returns we can discuss Melotonoin as there two versions, instant and delayed release depending on whether getting to sleep is the issue or waking during the night.

Do you feel your symptoms are increasing?

 

Sass

 

 

[AgainAlisia]

That is okay, I know you have a lot of people to attend to and I thank you for your help! I am alternating between beating myself up for taking the meds and thinking that the adverse reaction I had to prozac means I really am depressed and suicidal. 

 

I feel down and scared. Yesterday I was more worried about sleep, now that I have sleep I am worried about being depressed. My husband, who is very kind, says I just need to be easier on myself.

[Sassenach]

Your husband is right, fear of the fear is what breeds anxiety.

You are not suicidal, suicidal ideation is what you are experiencing and it is your brain playing cruel tricks, not a death wish.

Don't beat yourself up about the past, it is done and you have a future and an understanding partner.

If you sleep well again tonight that will be good news.

If your symptoms increase we can review from there.

Good sleep hygiene can be a big help.

Bed same time every night.

Ensure room is completely blacked out, helps calm morning cortisol spikes.

Phone and TV off an hour before bed.

Have a good night.

 

Sass

[AgainAlisia]

Thank you, Sass. Before you go can you just explain the difference re: suicide. I know I do not want to die. But the psych doc asked me two questions at my appt. as follows:

 

her: when was the last time you had a belly laugh?  Me: don’t remember ( I’m a busy working mom)

 

her: do you ever feel it would be easier if you died in your sleep? Me: well, at the end of really hard days, I think if I hit cancer again then I wouldn’t have to keep trying so hard

 

she: you have major chronic depression

 

me: okay

 

 

i look back at my summer and it was fun if anxious do I really have major depression?

[Sassenach]

5 minutes ago, AgainAlisia said:

I know I do not want to die

That is the difference between suicide and S Ideation.

You do NOT have chronic depression.

You have withdrawal symptoms something psychs do not accept.

Frankly you would be better to stay away at this time otherwise she will want you back on full dose A/D.

On 10/3/2019 at 9:38 PM, AgainAlisia said:

Was doing great for the last two years. Had high anxiety this fall due to menopause.

You are a normal person going through a stressfull time.

You can and will get through this but it will take time.

the-dr-claire-weekes-method-of-recovering-from-a-sensitized-nervous-system/

http://www.junior-anxiety-depression-exchange.org.uk/relax.html#HowToRecover

AAF: Acknowledge, Accept, Float.  It's what you have to do when nothing else works, and can be a very powerful tool in coping with anxiety.  The neuroemotional anxiety many of us feel during WD is directly caused by the drugs and their chemical reactions in the brain.  Making it so there is nothing we can do about them.  They won't respond to other drugs, relaxation techniques and the like.  They do, however, react very well to being ignored.  That's the concept behind AAF.  Acknowledge, get to know the feeling involved, explore them.  Accept, These feelings are a part of you and they aren't going anywhere fast. Float, let the feeling float off as you get on with your life as best as you can.  It's a well documented fact that the more you feed in to anxiety the worse it gets.  What starts as generalized neuroemotinal anxiety can be easily blown into a full fledged panic attack just by thinking about it.

 

I often liken it to an unwanted house guest.  At first you talk to them, have conversations, communicate with them.  After a while you figure out that they aren't leaving and there is nothing you can do to get rid of them.  So you go on about your day, working around them until they get bored and leave.

 

It can take some practice, but AAF really does work.  I hope you give it a try.

 

We can get you through this.

 

Sass

 

[AgainAlisia]

thank you.

[AgainAlisia]

I slept three hours. 10:30-1:30. The night before 9. Maybe my body is trying to even out?

[AgainAlisia]

Also, I was diagnosed as Ocd pure o. Seems to me was brought on by lack of estrogen and benzos and stress during cancer treatment. 

 

Got better during the last three years, came back a bit during stressful month of August.

[Sassenach]

Hi Alisia

 

How are the symptoms today?

 

Sass

[AgainAlisia]

Not terrible. Sleep was poor, I’ve been up since 1:30. But my mood isn’t horrible. Fear of fear, more than anything. I am supposed to be taking 100 mg oral progesterone to balance my hormones with my estrogen patch, do you know how that might affect anything? Is there anything on the site about hormones?

[Sassenach]

Not sure Alisia.

Go Forums, then symptoms and self care.

Lots of useful info on there.

7 hours ago, AgainAlisia said:

Ocd pure o.

What does the pure 0 bit mean?

[AgainAlisia]

It means it’s all

mental, intrusive thoughts no physical compulsions.

[AgainAlisia]

Sass— I found a post from April where Altostrata said the low dose estrogen patch helped her with insomnia. Not sure what she thought about the progesterone. My psych said it might help with sleep. Is there a way to contact Altostrata and her her opinion on whether I should take the bioidentical progesterone?

 

@AltostrataI am menopausal. One year past last menses.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Sassenach
correct name

[Sassenach]

sorted

[AgainAlisia]

What does sorted mean?

[Sassenach]

Referred to Alto 4 you.

 

[Altostrata]

Welcome, AgainAlisia.

 

Since you were on Prozac for only a couple of weeks and reacted badly to it, if I were you, I would not take it again. Seeing that you reacted badly to Lexapro as well, if I were you, I wouldn't take any SSRI for anything ever again. It appears that "normal" dosages are too much for you, and you're probably sensitized to the activating effects. I would not take seriously any psychiatric diagnosis given when someone is having an adverse drug reaction, doctors should know better (but don't).

 

It will take time for your body to reset to normal sleeping patterns. You will have to be patient. Melatonin can help, see 

 

Melatonin for sleep: Many people find it helpful

 

Tips to help sleep -- so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Path to Better Sleep FREE online for everyone from the US Veterans Administration

 

Music for self-care: Calms hyperalertness, anxiety, aids relaxation and sleep

 

What is the sleep cycle?

 

TV or computer use in evening can disrupt sleep: Bright light signals the brain that it's daytime

 

[AgainAlisia]

Thank you, Alto,

Do you also have any advice about my .025 estrogen patch? Should I keep wearing it? And should I be taking the 100 mg of Prometrium? My doctor said it would help with sleep. Or is it risky?

 

 

[AgainAlisia]

@Altostrata   

I started the patch on 10/1/19. it is .025 changed twice a week. Did not start the promethium because I read it can be as hard to come off as benzos and starts same gaba mechanism. You advice? Thank you.

[Altostrata]

Have you felt any benefit from the estrogen patch? You'll need to listen to your body to make these decisions.

[AgainAlisia]

I don't know. Everything happened so quickly. The reaction to Prozac on 9/28, the sleeplessness for the ensuing week, the patch starting on 10/1, still poor sleep last three nights--I feel calmer in the day  then I did, so it might be helping with that.  I read too much of other people's opinions/experiences and then can't make my own determination.

 

What are your thoughts about the progesterone?

[Altostrata]

I don't know. If you're seeing slight improvement, you might just observe that for a while and not rock the boat by adding something else.

 

However, you need to check whether your estrogen patch needs progesterone supplementation for safety.

 

Please read the links I gave you above for sleep improvement. There are many non-drug things you can do to move the recovery process along.

 

Please keep notes every day of when you take your drugs, their dosages, and your symptoms. Also include your sleep pattern. These notes help identify adverse drug reactions and symptom pattern improvement.

 

[AgainAlisia]

It does need progesterone but I am afraid it might act on the same benzo receptors.

 

I will try to keep a record.

 

Last two nights it has been fall asleep fast at around 9 for an hour. Awake for a while and then 2-3 hours until 1:30 or so. Get out of bed at 6:30 and do the day.

 

 

Thank you.