DD44: please help, currently on mirtazapine and gabapentin

[DD44]

@elbee thank you for noticing my effort 

 

@Shebon I noticed you said in a post to Marie123 about eating bananas and walnuts to help with mirt withdrawal 

I too am withdrawing from only mirt currently. Any info you have on what diet or supps you value for helping would be greatly appreciated 

 

hopw you’re doing okay and nice to meet another person who is going to win the battle against mirt! 
 

-Dana 

 

 

[Shebon]

Hi DD:

I read some of your posts yesterday and was going to reply.  I am so sorry to hear of your long insomnia nites -- that must be horrible and frightening.  Your dose of temazapam was quite high and I don't think the added Ambien ever really covered the withdrawals from the benzo.  It might have been better for you to cross over to valium and do a slow taper off that.  The bad thing for benzos:  that once one reaches tolerance, your brain is screaming for more and you will have the WD symptoms.  

 

I did a cross over to valium and tapered off that in 5 months time.  So sorry you weren't advised that might have been the way to go.  Have you joined benzobuddies.com?  

 

You have restarted 7.5 mg. remeron recently and I know from several tapers, that remeron can take weeks for you to stabilize.  One time, I was down to 1.87 mg. remeron and updosed back to 3.75 mg.  It took me around 45 days to restabilize and even out from the WD symptoms.    

 

I read that bananas and walnuts (with Omegas 3s) will help to repair neurotransmitters.  So I have been eating these daily.  Also magnesium glycinate is great!  Be wary of fish oil and the others mentioned in your signature.  Fish oil can overstimulate the CNS and the others might too.  Better to add in one at a time and see how you feel, otherwise, you cannot pin the culprit down easily that is exciting the CNS.  Oatmeal is also good stuff for calming down the CNS.  

 

You have been through so much and I only wish to encourage you to not to lose hope.  I still keep a daily diary and note any symptoms or improvements.  This will help you keep your perspective and assess that you are and will continue to improve.  

 

We're here to cheer you on....

Best to you,

Shebon

[DD44]

@ShebonAlthough I was on a Benzo I ah e no idea what part of it contributed to what Iv been through. With that in mind I don’t ruminate on it and I just am thankful for where I am today. 
 

I have been through a lot. And it’s crazy how on the days I feel good I feel almost super hero and if I’m having bad spell it’s really low. 
 

I was given a great resource just yesterday and I’m diving into it 

 

it’s a app called “insight timer” TONS of live guided meditation and yoga and all kinds of stuff. I’m plugging into that. And I upped my dose a little. I was down to 6.4 and Iv jumped back to 6.8. Slow and steady, I dont want to suffer. I’m also going to work on my diet and address all my fear about moving out of state. I’m even thinking of getting certified as a yoga teacher (Iv been a personal trainer for ten years, retired it in late 2018) ... anyhow... I wish u great luck on your journey. Thank you for checking in and keep in touch 

 

Dana 

[Shebon]

DD:

 

Do not take your magnesium with your remeron.  The magnesium can interfere with absorption and that will cause problems.  I would take it at 2 hours before the remeron or two hours after.  Also, ice water is not good to take your remeron with either.  Tap water is the better.    I learned these two lessons the hard way.😜

[DD44]

@Shebon interesting I have always taken my mag with my mirt but I will start this now 

 

need any help I can get to believe I will get all the way off in time 

 

thanks again 

[Shebon]

DD:

 

Love your attitude!!  I wish you the best in your goals!!  I will look into that app too!  

 

Thanks for sharing!

Shebon

[DD44]

@Shebon @marie123

also if you guys have any clues to losing weight 

 

I’m struggling on this one and I was always super fit ... not being too good with my diet but trying to do better. Would love to lose 15..

 

any tips are welcome!

[marie123]

Hi DD.

 

I find it difficult to lose weight on Mirt since I'm not able to exercise like I used to. Muscles are too tight and I get wavy if I exert myself too much. Everyone is different and since you are younger you might have an easier time. Avoid carbs and sweets and walk a lot. I think as we get lower in dose it might get easier. I believe that when I am done with the taper the weight I have gained will come off slowly. Fifteen pounds is not that much. I have gained much more. I want to be a fit slim old lady. Be well DD. Marie.

[DD44]

Hey eveeyone 

im really still struggling 

i had like two good ok evenings over the weekend and now during the week I feel like I’m back to where I was. Feel like I’m getting 1-2 hrs of trash rest I can’t keep up like this.

I’m at .070 dose that’s .004 up from where I was ... really need support and guidance 

[Ripley]

Hi DD44

 

It sounds like we're in a similar position. I'm at 6.6mg of mirt after updosing from 6.45mg a few weeks ago. Things had settled well until I was hit hit hard with insomnia when the clocks changed at the weekend. Is there anything you can think of that may have triggered this for you? All I can advise really is sitting tight and holding your dose and waiting for things to improve. That's what I'm doing anyway and I know it's not easy! I'm not sure that helps you much but I can tell you that you're not alone. The insomnia is such a hard hitting symptom. I've had a few rubbish nights now and just waiting for it to turn a corner again. I hope things settle down soon for you too!

 

Best wishes

Ripley 

[Ripley]

On a practical note, I would add that I've found Epsom Salts baths to be soothing and guided meditation on YouTube, which may help you. All the natural sleeping tips on this site are very good. 

 

I also find if I can distract myself during the day (and night!) from my worries about sleep and WD it's much better than fretting, where I can find myself going round in circles and getting more and more upset. It's so easy to do this when you're over tired and worried. 

 

X

[DD44]

@Gridley @RenewedLife reaching out to you guys because I saw your posts on multiple people with are tapering Mirtazapine. I started at a reinstated 7.5 (from 15) in November of 2019. I had been off since around June of 2019 and my health had suffered so much I thought I was dying. By January 2020 I was incredibly stable and doing amazing again once reinstating. I began a dry taper (scratch and weight) and had gotten down to only 6.4 around a month ago when all the sudden now my rest at night is severely disturbed and sometimes absent all together again. I don’t want to keep going this direction as my life has really improved immensely and I want to continue that way. I have updosed to 6.8 and am still not getting even 3 hrs a night. I feel like I’m lucky if I’m getting 1-2 max. Once this happens everything suffers and 0 nights are somewhere I refuse to stay. Any advise would be greatly appreciated and I’m willing to updose more if needed. I’m 34 and would love to have a child one day, and be med free but I want my life over everything. Perhaps I’m not ready to be tapering or once again I went too fast, I’m not sure but I just know I need some help and guidance. I may also begin leaving my diary notes here again each day until things sort out. ... 

[Gridley]

@DD44

 

DD44.  I'm sorry your sleep is suffering.

 

Could you please include your 2020 drug events, including the dates and rate of your taper, the dose you were on when you started tapering and when you updosed to 6.8 from 6.4, plus the dosage you were on in Jan. 2020 when you were stable.  I want to see the increases nd decreases and also how long you've given the updose to 6.8 to work.  Have you felt any benefits at all from this updose?

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature.

 

Once I have this information, I''ll be in a better position to advise you.

 

 

 

[DD44]

 

Could you please include your 2020 drug events, including the dates and rate of your taper, the dose you were on when you started tapering and when you updosed to 6.8 from 6.4, plus the dosage you were on in Jan. 2020 when you were stable.  I want to see the increases nd decreases and also how long you've given the updose to 6.8 to work.  Have you felt any benefits at all from this updose?
@Gridley

I began my 2020 taper of 7.5 mirt beginning in January and was just going at a rate that my body allowed. Everything is based on sleep. I have no symptoms really other than extreme sleep disturbance if I’m not careful. I was clearly going slower than 5% a month becusse I only made it to 6.4 around early October. That’s when I noticed I was waking but could usually get right back to sleep. Right when I began to hold everything kind of unraveled a bit. Now I haven’t had a solid 6-8 he night like I was having prior for about 3 weeks. I find myself up at 3am like I’m ready to get up and work or whatever. And 12a-3 is restless. Then I’m struggling get back down only to maybe drift right around the time I have to start getting ready for work (930a) I updosed to 6.6 maybe about a wk ago and then updosed again to 6.8 two days ago because I’m still not getting relief. I’m doing my best to keep stress low. Eat well, drink water, moderate exercise before the sun sets and be mindful. I could stand to shut down electronics earlier and do more yoga which I’m aggressively getting into. I need my rest. I’m willing to do whatever I have to to get back to where I was just a couple month ago. I have not felt any benefits from my updose no. Thanks so much for your rime and help

Dana 

[Gridley]

6 minutes ago, DD44 said:

I’m willing to do whatever I have to to get back to where I was just a couple month ago. I

I wish I had an answer.  I know you tapered very slowly based on your sleep and are practicing very good sleep hygiene.  I would say to hold where you are at 6.8 and give it another week and see how you're doing then.  Make no further changes.

[DD44]

@Gridley

im going to try my best but my inclination is to oppose all the way to 7mg 

I need a difference and improvement in rest. I cannot afford to lose my job, not be able to function. A lot of people on here are retired and can just sit at home 

if I could then cool but I can’t. 

[Gridley]

7 minutes ago, DD44 said:

m going to try my best but my inclination is to oppose all the way to 7mg 

Of course, it's your decision.  I'd give 6.8 a chance to work.  You don't want to overwhelm your system.

[DD44]

@Gridley

yes I’m trying my best. Really am. I think the hard part for me is the contrast. When I have my rest, I’m on fire. Im a musician, I’m joyful and making moves and everything feels great. 
when I don’t, I feel like life isn’t worth a ****

i wish my brain wasn’t like that. Wish I didn’t feel like such dog **** from it. I would take ANY other symptom than mine.. 

I want to be off this drug one day and have no clue how I’m going to do it.

Going from 7.5 to 6.4 in a ten month span and having trouble is honestly discouraging when I see others going faster and it’s working out OK, not perfect but ok. That’s the thing. I’d take 5 hrs here. 8 here. One bad night or two. But night after night I just can’t take that forever .. sorry to get so fired up about it 

[Gridley]

I know you are.  Please try not to despair.  The sleep symptom is a really tough one.

[Shebon]

Hi DD:

 

Sorry to hear the sleep issue is not resolving....Are you taking anything with the mirt at nighttime?  Absorption is key to the mirt taper.  Anything that can interfere with this is bad news.  

 

I did have to updose from 1.87 mg. to 3.75 mg. again in 2017.  I was having sleep troubles too.  It took me a good 45 days to stabilize, but I did.  Hold on for now -- I think you may be turning a corner very soon.  

 

Also, when I wake up in the middle of the night, I take (2) Calms Forte.  Have you tried these?  They are 100% homeopathic and non-addictive, pricey, but worth it.  

 

Best regards,

Shebon

[DD44]

@Shebon I take just .3 mil of melatonin and then 400mg magnesium  glycinate  a little while after (I used to take the mag at same time as mirt and had No problems but someone suggested here I stagger them now)

thank you so much for checking in on me . I’m hoping I am turning a corner soon. I will absolutely try to calm forte. I really need to be in good health... I’m preparing to release my first original song. It’s an exciting time for me, just want to feel good from day to day

still can’t help but be a bit discouraged that I’m having trouble when Iv only reduced 1mg over a ten month period... I would understand if my lifestyle was off (bad eating, no exercise, etc) but I seem to be doing much of what I’m supposed to... not sure what else to say. 
 

also I just ordered the clams forte on Amazon and it was only 5$ pretty cheap? Hope I got the right one. I looked and it said all natura and had very good reviews 

[Shebon]

DD:

 

Sounds like a very exciting time for you!!  Maybe I'll see you on Songland?  

 

Again, I would take mirt at least 2 hrs. before or after anything else.  Magnesium should help calm your system but it does interfere with absorption....melatonin might do the same.  I notice you take vitamin C too -- this too revved up my system when I tapered off the benzo.  Anything that can rev up your CNS is not what you want to take right now.   I would google boswelia and tumeric too for insomnia and see if others have experienced insomnia from taking them.  I know Vit C can bring on insomnia when tapering.  

 

I think you will stabilize fairly soon since your drop has been only 1 mg. or so.  Going back up is not too big an updose.  

 

Best regards,

Shebon

[DD44]

@Shebon

songland very possible.. I think songwriting is my super power.. 

https://www.instagram.com/tv/B9xhCQvAD2N/?igshid=171iiys8lr7s1

that’s me if anyone’s curious ... that’s my first song I’m hoping it’s produced by the end of year 

 

the thing about my supplements is I don’t know why they would suddenly cause issue when they have been there the whole time and haven’t 

I deal with a lot of joint issues (present somewhat before MIRT) and so supps to help the joints are kinda important... I’m at 6.8mg (up .4)  and I’m going to hold there and be as strong as I can

ill be able to try to calms forte this evening if I wake .. 

[marie123]

Hello DD44.

 

How exciting for you releasing your first song. Maybe even though this is a happy event it's causing good stress and it keeps you for sleeping properly. I did find that supplements I took previously like fish oil and magnesium I can no longer tolerate tapering. Who knows why. I overheard my dentist saying he uses CBD gummies. I wonder if something like that would help you. Also, can you get liquid mirtazapine from your doctor? Be well. Marie.

 

 

 

 

[DD44]

@marie123 I tried a liquid when I first began my taper from a compounding pharmacy and it didn’t work for me 

 

even tried having them simply compound my prescription with only a .1 decrease and it didn’t work lol

lucky me eh?

[marie123]

I absolutely loved Fantasy. It made all my symptoms fade. 🙂 Happy for you. Marie.

[marie123]

Did they compound it to liquid? I did a crossover from pill to liquid and it took 3 months to do it. Sensitive me huh? I couldn't taper with the small pill. I think it wasn't accurate enough for me. Marie.

[DD44]

@marie123

u have no idea how much that means to me

 

my only life’s ambition is to share my art with the world. Thank U so much 😌

[Shebon]

DD:

 

Very nice song -- you are in your element!!  Now to just get stabilized on your rem dose.....you will get there.  

 

Keep singing and composing -- and walking in the sunshine!

Best regards,

Shebon

[DD44]

@Shebon @Altostrata @elbee @marie123

 

reaxhinf out to a few of you to see people’s thought on my question 

 

is there any possibility that my pills would lose potency if they have been scratched into and then eat like that for weeks? 
 

for example I am in the final 30 days of a 90 day prescription and every pill I have has been cut into already because in the past if I was trying to scratch one and went too far I just put it back thinking I would be able to use it later on. Many are for example cut down to 6.4 or less and have been sitting like that for easily a couple weeks or more. Wondering if this could be effecting anything. Last night wasn’t great and night before that was awful. Just doing my best. Won’t know if my theory holds until I fill a new prescription end of November. Hopefully as soon as possible if any of you think this could be effecting things .

[DD44]

I did just read somewhere that oxygen can degrade the exposed drug  this is giving me a bit of anxiety. Maybe I can email my doctor and explain and maybe he can work with me on getting a new prescription 

 

on a bright note hopefully this will solve my issue. Now i will know I should not chip at a pill until I’m ready to take it .....

 

edit * I decided to email dr and ask for new prescription 

hoping this comes through ASAP. Maybe this is what the issue is. Not sure but worth a shot 

[marie123]

Hi DD. When I was taking the 7.5 mg in pill form I would get a 90 day supply. After a while I ended up I ended up with over 250 pills. I didn't mind that I had so much since I was hoarding them, just in case. I never noticed a change in symptoms when I used an older pill. Now I try to use the older pills when I get it made into liquid so I can use them up. I do find that because it is in a liquid it degrades some by the end of the month. Just keep the pills and pieces in the pill bottle and put it in a dark place like a drawer or medicine cabinet.

 

When I dry cut trazodone I kept the old pills and used them, sometimes I would take an older piece and a piece of a new pill to get a weight. I found it degraded a bit when I left the pill or pill pieces on the counter.

 

I do not think that your pills are degrading unless you left them out in the sun or out of the bottle for a long time. Scratching the pill or cutting them does not reduce potency.

 

Sleep is a funny thing. When I make a cut my sleep gets worse, tossing and turning and lots of wakeups. I know it makes us feel lousy the next day. When this happens I follow what I've always done. I like to have fresh, clean comfy sheets, pillows and blanket. The temperature gets set to 65. I take a hot bath or shower depending on how achey I feel.

Some lavender drops in a hot bath are nice. I wait it out--the days of poor sleep because I know once I stabilize sleep gets better. I have some bad nights even when I stabilize. If something is on my mind, good or bad, sleep goes south. Better sleep will happen to you too. Be well, Marie.

[DD44]

Hey @marie123

 

thanks for commenting back. I realize you never seemed to have an difficulty with pills that you scratched and left for later on but I did read in several places online that exposure to air can do this and that you shouldn’t split a pill until you’re ready to take it. I read this several places. Also my disturbances coincide with when I had to begin using pills that had been broken and left for later on. 
 

I can’t be sure if my theory  is right until I try and I can’t try until I get a new prescription. Hopefully my doctor will write it soon. 
 

to be honest I am hoping my theory is correct because there just isn’t anything in my life that should be stressing me THAT much. My finances are good. I want to move but I’m just waiting on covid to calm down and tie up some loose ends here in Virginia. Iv never been worried about covid and still am not. I’m working on my music. My work is stable and easy. I’m getting exercise and eating and drinking enough. It just doesn’t make any sense, so I’m hoping my theory might be what it is.

 

I can also say from my personal experience that may body seems to be very picky about the formate of my mirt. For example when I tried to switch from my pill at 7.5 to a compound made by pharmacy at 7.4 it didn’t work out.
I know you weren’t trying to discourage me but I have a lot of reasons to think this might be what’s going on. We will see in time.

 

Dana 

[marie123]

Okay Dana. Everyone is different so see if you can get a new batch. It might just work. Good luck. Marie.

[DD44]

Just wanted to update..

I seem to be doing a little better

Although  today I got some very bad new that I’m most likely losing my job Jan 1. This sucks big time but I’m hoping I can shift my thinking to something like it’s going to work out in my favor. I still really want to move but had intended to stick it out with my job to save more and wait for covid to die down. I guess I have to rethink that plan. This month is a hard one too because it is the 8 year anniversary of a trauma I suffered when I discovered my boyfriend dead. I haven’t been close to someone like I was to him since. It’s mostly flashbacks that bother me at this point. I do wonder what he would be like if he were here, he was the last person I felt like was a best friend to me. Anyhow ... hopefully I can make a plan for myself for the new year and stay positive 

Dana 

[DD44]

Just an update in case anyone is listening.. still struggling. I had two good nights then back to **** of feeling wired at 5am. I honestly feel like giving up withdrawal. Maybe it’s not the right time for me to do it? Maybe my body would react differently at a different age? I don’t know. But I do know I do not want to live just not sleeping every night. Iv considered being hypnotized, using a witch to cast a spell on me. All sounds silly but the difference in my qualify of life from when I’m getting my rest to when I’m not is like night and day, no pun intended. Maybe I should start leaving my schedule here again like I did back when things were tough, one year ago almost exactly. Im also 5 days out from a trauma I experienced 8 years ago...