Vanora - Coming off Cymbalta

[Vanora]

I started my antidepressant history in the late 1970's with a tricyclic called Clomiprmine. Many years later and many failed attempts to come off antidepressants I've now been off Cymbalta since the 28th March 2012. Now on 10mg Buspirone and one quarter Diazepam. I have managed to convince my psychiatrist to try the Lamotrigine path - she would really like to try me on a newer tricyclic. It has been suggested that this is the return of my old depressive/anxiety disorder but I'm determined to come off these things as I believe my health has been compromised by these drugs. I have no illusions it's going to be tough. Already my anxiety is often unbearable and at times I've been suicidal but if I can just reduce my dependence on Buspirone and the Diazepam so that I can cope better with my withdrawal. Reintroducing any kind of SSRI has proved useless if anything it has made me worse. My psychiatrist feels I should stay on the Buspirone and the Diazepam until the Lamotrigine kicks in. I'm so glad to have found your site as most psychiatric advice has seemed clueless about what I'm going through. I sympathise with everybody attempting withdrawal. Please wish me luck because one way or another I'm coming off these drugs. One last thought, if Lamotrigine fails Prof. David Healy recommends other options such as "drugs active on the cholinergic system, calcium blockers or dopamine agonists". Could anyone explain to me in simple terms what that means and what these drugs are? I hope I make sense as my brain seems really scrambled these days.

[Vanora]

I have been on antidepressants since the late 1970's. My first antidepressant was a tricyclic called Clomiprame. Since 1998 after a spell on Seroxat, Effexor was prescribed. I feel that my health has suffered through being on these drugs and to cut a long story short I made a concerted effort to try and come off antidepressants in 2011. It failed drastically despite the use of Prozac and Seroquel. Reintroducing Effexor only made things worse. My psychiatrist read about research from Taiwan that suggested that Cymblta could ease withdrawal but my anxiety has not diminished. Following the protocol of Prof David Healy I finally stopped Cymbalta on the 28th of March 2012. Within about 2 weeks my anxiety is off the scale. Diazepam is the only thing that really works but I know of its potential for addiction so now I only take it in one quarter dose per day and 10mg Buspirone and that just about gets me through the day. Thankfully I found this site and I've managed to convince my psychiatrist, despite her misgivings, to try me on Lamictal starting at 5mg. If this fails she wants to try a newer tricyclic. In the meantime she has told me to stay on the Buspirone and the Diazepam until the Lamictal kicks in. I really hopes this works as I'm in a kind of hell. Prof. Healy talks about other options such as "drugs active on the cholinergic system. calcium blockers or dopamine agonists". Can anyone tell me what kind of drugs they are and if they would actually help.

[xDebbiejo]

Hi Vanora

Welcome to the forum!

I'm quite new here so I can't really help, but there are lots who can and will be along shortly.

 

It's been a real big help to me, the people are very caring and supportive here! I don't know what I would have done if I had not found this forum.

 

I'm sure you'll find the answers your looking for!

You are in the best place

 

Wish you all the best

 

Debbie xx

[spectio]

Hi, vanora, I'm so glad you are here with us. You will find genuine compassion and lots of valuable information you won't get anywhere else. I'm so sorry to hear about your struggle. It seems that we all are fighting a huge battle. I really think you made the only choice you could have in getting off these vile chemicals. Alto will be on shortly to advise you on the lamictal. She speaks from the trenches on that matter.

 

I know what you're saying as far as the nervousness. I was on Remeron for ten years. About four years ago I developed severe nausea and anxiety while still on the drug. It took me two years to discontinue the drug only to find I was STILL anxious! Now it has been nearly eight and a half months since I quit and the symptoms are still there, although not as bad. Now I'm dealing with pretty severe headaches and dizzyness every day. The nervousness is better and I'm thinking so much better than I was while on the drug.

 

I also take meds for high blood pressure and thought that was a problem because some of the symptoms I was having were mentioned as a side effect. I switched to a beta blocker a couple of weeks ago and the nervousness improved nearly 50 %. In my thinking I think it is because epinephrine levels have dropped. These would be epinephrine levels that have been constantly elevated since coming off the AD. This is only my theory. I mention this because you talked about calcium channel blockers, dopamine agonists, and lamictal to reduce your anxiety levels. I'm not sure I would recommend the beta blocker route for you because they come with their own set of side effects, too. I'm really not sure if they are the right choice for me either, long term.

 

Anyway, hang tight until you hear from the site veterans. They'll give you good, practical advise! Take care!

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Vanora.

 

If you wish to experiment with Lamictal, if I were you, I'd cut those tiny tablets into quarters and start with 1.25mg.

 

Lamictal is tricky, too much can make you worse. Best to edge into it gradually and use the lowest effective dose, which may be less than 5mg (yes, this is true).

 

It also comes in 2mg tablets, see http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1122-tips-for-tapering-off-lamictal-lamotrigine/page__p__9926__hl__lamotrigine__fromsearch__1#entry9926 Your doctor needs to phone GSK for this.

 

It is with many reservations that I put that info about Lamictal on the Web. Treatment with it could go wrong. Please back off it if you have any problems.

[Nikki]

Hi Vanora and welcome,

 

There are alot of members here who have or are taking Lamictal and Cymbalta. I have not. My tapers and troubles are basically SSRI's.

 

The tapering process for all of these meds is the same...tiny cuts in dose and long intervals between drops in dose.

 

The person you want to correspond with is Alto. She can help with all your questions and Lamictal.

 

My understanding from reading here is to taper one drug at a time, makin the benzo taper your last one. There is a support group for Benzo tapering - Benzo Buddies (I think that's the name. Members here refer to that site.

 

Many doctor's do not understand WD - Discontinuation Syndrome and Protracted WD, so they just keep pumping their patients up with more drugs. You are not alone.

 

Hugs

[Altostrata]

Vanora, I moved your other post here, to your Introduction and Updates topic. This is your topic to journal and discuss your own particular case.

 

Prof. Healy talks about other options such as "drugs active on the cholinergic system. calcium blockers or dopamine agonists". Can anyone tell me what kind of drugs they are and if they would actually help.

An anticholinergic might be Benedryl, an antihistamine that helps some people sleep. A calcium blocker might be one of these drugs mayoclinic.com/health/calcium-channel-blockers/HI00061 . We prefer magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker -- it's much safer and could be good for you, too.

 

These are blood pressure drugs. Some people find other drugs that lower blood pressure such as beta blockers, http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/beta-blockers/HI00059 or alpha blockers http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alpha-blockers/HI00055 helpful.

 

I don't know what he means by a dopamine agonist. I would not touch any of these drugs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_agonist with a 10-foot pole.

 

All of these drugs have their own drawbacks, not the least of which is that your nervous system might be hypersensitive and your doctor has no idea what she's doing.

 

And about the Lamictal -- do not expect it to take away all your symptoms and return you to normal, no matter how much you take. What you want is to take the very lowest effective dose that reduces your symptoms to a bearable level, and stay on the Lamictal until your own nervous system starts to regulate itself again. This can take a few months to a few years.

[Vanora]

Hi, Thank you ever so much to everyone who replied to my post. Just having the human contact albeit via the internet helps to encourage me.

I've been so ill recently that even leaving the house is an impossibility - tried it today and had to resort to a 5mg Diazepam and an extra Buspirone. Such a disappointment when so far I've kept the Diazepam to a quarter of a 5mg tab.

I really appreciate your advice about the Lamictal Altostrata. Your warnings about it have made me think long and hard about the advocacy of taking this drug. The very indefinite nature of withdrawal from antidepressants makes it extremely hard to bear. There is no panacea out there.

I must admit that I'm tempted to take the cowardly way out by opting for the tricyclic my psychiatrist has suggested just so that I can survive. Having an unbearable day makes me waver.

I have a family member who acts as a psychiatric nurse which is so unfair on them. They have their own health issues and I'm just an extra burden they could well do without.

If I do go on this tricyclic antidepressant might I have problems introducing it into my system? I have heard they are easier to come off though I have no real evidence for this at all. Any thoughts about this anyone?

 

Wishing everyone a safe journey off antidepressants, Vanora

 

 

1978/79 introduced to Clomipramine

Around 1992 put on Seroxat after failure to come off Clomipramine

Either 1997 or 1998 changed to Effexor

2011 failed withdrawal from Effexor despite use of Prozac and Seroquel. Put on Cymbalta

28th March 2012 , after taper, now off Cymbalta

Sometime down the line experiencing severe problems

Worried I may be one of those sensitve individuals who can never come off antidepressants

[Altostrata]

Vanora, I combined your topics. Only one topic to a customer in the Introductions forum.

 

What are your present symptoms?

 

How long were you taking Cymbalta? What dosage did you start at? Did it reduce your symptoms at all? How did you taper Cymbalta?

 

(I would like to know what that "research from Taiwan" about Cymbalta for withdrawal syndrome was. If you can get a copy or a citation from your doctor, I'd appreciate it.)

 

Is buspirone helping? How often do you take it, and at what dosage?

 

Doctors often think that another antidepressant can cure withdrawal symptoms. If your system is sensitized, as evidenced by your bad experience with other SSRIs, it's unlikely any will help. The more you irritate your nervous system, the worse your symptoms get.

 

See What is antidepressant withdrawal syndrome?

[Skyler]

I don't know what he means by a dopamine agonist. I would not touch any of these drugs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_agonist with a 10-foot pole.

 

You would not touch Requip? Eeeek.. what is the reason. I would be going out of my mind on withdrawal given the RLS without help, and it would be taking me twice as long (I think) to taper, not that I've been on the fast track as it is. RLS hits so hard that it's like I'm doing the doggie paddle in bed, or just writhing. What is the downside. This is really bad news.

 

I try to stay at .25mgs, but lately it's been more to .5mgs, which I don't like. When the recent episode of missing diazpam clears, I should be back to the lower dose, but again, what is the reason for your strong reservations??

Groan, every time I think I'm starting to sense the lay of the land, something else rears it's head. Better not to live in ignorance, but it sure would be nice to have fewer surprises.

[Altostrata]

I wouldn't touch a dopamine agonist to treat withdrawal syndrome.

[Skyler]

I wouldn't touch a dopamine agonist to treat withdrawal syndrome.

 

I got that, but why? What about them makes you so leery, what do they do that is so bad. And do you have any idea as to what would be a good substitute? I had RLS before starting to withdraw, but withdrawal puts them beyond what I can deal with. I would get absolutely NO sleep for days on end.

 

If you want to respond on my thread.. is fine. ~S

[Altostrata]

Because I can't see what they would do for withdrawal syndrome. Dr. Healy might think increasing dopamine somehow balances the nervous system after serotonergic downregulation, but I can't imagine how that would work.

[Skyler]

Because I can't see what they would do for withdrawal syndrome. Dr. Healy might think increasing dopamine somehow balances the nervous system after serotonergic downregulation, but I can't imagine how that would work.

 

Well.. that makes me feel a little better, well, kinda sorta. I'm not taking it for withdrawal, though arguably withdrawal is making the RLS worse. The script preceded the taper.. though I now think I could manage by religiously avoiding food additives, antihistamines, stuff like Splenda etc.. but with the level withdrawal sets in motion, I would not sleep for days, scary. Thanks again.

[Altostrata]

Prof. Healy talks about other options such as "drugs active on the cholinergic system. calcium blockers or dopamine agonists". Can anyone tell me what kind of drugs they are and if they would actually help.

An anticholinergic might be Benedryl, an antihistamine that helps some people sleep. A calcium blocker might be one of these drugs mayoclinic.com/health/calcium-channel-blockers/HI00061 . We prefer magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker -- it's much safer and could be good for you, too.

 

These are blood pressure drugs. Some people find other drugs that lower blood pressure such as beta blockers, http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/beta-blockers/HI00059 or alpha blockers http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/alpha-blockers/HI00055 helpful.

 

I don't know what he means by a dopamine agonist. I would not touch any of these drugs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dopamine_agonist with a 10-foot pole.

 

All of these drugs have their own drawbacks, not the least of which is that your nervous system might be hypersensitive and your doctor has no idea what she's doing.

 

I should have included this warning in my post above:

 

ANY OF THESE DRUGS MAY CAUSE ADVERSE OR PARADOXICAL REACTIONS IN A HYPERSENSITIVE NERVOUS SYSTEM. Be very careful about trying any of them; experiment with fractional doses to start, much lower than your doctor prescribes. A high dosage is not better for you than a low dosage. More is not better.

[Vanora]

I have started taking Lamictal by cutting a 5mg dose in half. How long do I wait before I increase it further and how long before I feel any beneficial effects? Once I reach the 5mg mark will I need to increase it further? If this drug doesn't help what options are left open to me? Vanora

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1978/79 started Clomipramine

1992 begun on Seroxat

1997/98 changed to Effexor

2011 failed withdrawal from Effexor despite use of Prozac and Seroquel.Put on Cymbalta.

28th March 2012 off Cymbalta. Taking 10mg Buspirone and one quarter Diazepam.

[Altostrata]

Vanora, I combined your topics. Only one topic to a customer in the Intro forum.

 

Adding Lamictal may not do anything for you. It may conflict with the benzo. Even if it does help, it will not immediately take away your symptoms. It may make them worse. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1365-dixon-10-months-off-ssris/page__view__findpost__p__22350

 

I HAVE TO EMPHASIZE AGAIN, USING LAMICTAL IS COMPLICATED. YOU SHOULD NOT JUST JUMP INTO IT, OR ANY OTHER PSYCHIATRIC DRUG, TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEMS.

[Vanora]

Vanora, I combined your topics. Only one topic to a customer in the Intro forum.

 

Adding Lamictal may not do anything for you. It may conflict with the benzo. Even if it does help, it will not immediately take away your symptoms. It may make them worse. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1365-dixon-10-months-off-ssris/page__view__findpost__p__22350

 

I HAVE TO EMPHASIZE AGAIN, USING LAMICTAL IS COMPLICATED. YOU SHOULD NOT JUST JUMP INTO IT, OR ANY OTHER PSYCHIATRIC DRUG, TO SOLVE YOUR PROBLEMS.

 

[Nikki]

I have sent you a private message. Vanora if you need to take the Lorazapam then take it to get you thru this awful spell.

 

Please talk to you husband and explain how you are feeling. The Lamictal sounds bad.

 

Cymbalta is murderous to get off of....it's not you, it's the meds. The meds are giving you this awful anxiety.

 

You may feel better once the Lamictal is out of your system. Thank goodness it was only for a few days.

 

Hugs

[Vanora]

To Nikki, Debbie, and to Altostrata, Have taken myself off Lamictal. I cannot survive this level of anxiety and to anyone who has done all I can say is that you are a very brave person. Lorazepam has been my life saver - literally. My poor son - it's just him and me - I can tell by his face that he's very worried and is frustrated that he can't really help me. I've put him through such a lot. Too much that I'm ashamed. Yesterday was a big melt down day. I believe I've very little chance of going back on antidepressants, on the basis of my own experience and by what some in the scientific world say, it would only make matters worse. I've been hunting the internet for answers, here is what I've found. On both sides of the Atlantic scientists are using a drug called Metyrapone to dampen down cortisol. In Montreal researchers say that "the drug metyrapone reduces the brain's ability to record negative emotions associated with painful memories". The lead author of this research states:"Metyrapone is a drug that significantly decreases the levels of cortisol, a stress hormone that is involved in memory recall". It's in trial at Leeds University and at the National University of Ireland. UCL is looking into it for patients who have "endothelial dysfunction" as part of their depression. In a paper called:" Therapeutic Advances in Psychopharmacology March 27,2012", researchers are looking at metyrapone in treatment-resistant depression. They are based at the Institute of Neurosciences in Newcastle, UK. They say:"Studies have been carried out with these drugs as augment agents for anti-depressants or as a monotherapy." They are published on-line at tpp.sagepub.com but you have to be a member of SAGE Journals or login via Athens or your institution. This may be my only line of action. I may even consider going back on an antidepressant with metyrapone to aid its reinstatement. Perhaps I can come off all these things at a later date but I hope that it works as it's better than being deceased. Thanks to all who replied to me, I was in a very bad way and I do appreciate it. Vanora

[xDebbiejo]

Hi Vanora

You say that lorazepam has been your life saver, so can you take that for now if it helps.

I don't know about any other drugs that you researched but I would wait for Alto's advice, I'm sure she will able to advise.

 

Can you manage to go out for a walk as that can help.

 

Thinking of you

 

Hugs xx

[Nikki]

Vanora I have apologized to my daughter many times for my problems during WD. She always says the same thing....there's nothing to apologize for Mom. I assure you, your son probably feels the same way.

 

Just for the next 24 hours can you decide to let go of the guilt? Take it off your plate.

 

If you are off Lamictal, Cymbalta and using Lorazapam just use the Lorazapam to help you interrupt the cycle of anxiety. Anxiety festers.

 

When I was tapering Lexapro I got to a point (like you) where I could not go on another day longer with WD anxiety. I had reached the end of the line. At that time the Psych Nurse Practitioner suggested taking Imipramine in a small amount.

 

I think I may have started with 5-10mgs. to take the edge off. This is my experience. Eventually I bumped it up to the full dose when I finished my Lexapro taper.

 

I don't know if this is a good idea. For me, I felt I had no choice at the time. I don't feel comfortable suggesting drugs, but I know how you are feeling and there is a desperation in your posts.

 

Cocktails of drugs are bad news. Sticking with one that is helping is a better alternative.

Are you still taking buspar?

 

Hugs....hope I am not confusing you or the issue. Just want you to be okay and not suffer like this....

[Vanora]

Quick update. I mentioned Metyrapone to my psychiatrist and she referred to it as "heavy duty stuff" and not something she would like to prescribe but she will look in to it further. She said it would seriously effect my adrenal and my pituitary levels. So, I was probably clutching at straws. Instead she has come up with an anti-psychotic drug called Amisulpride at a low dosage which apparently would be easier to introduce to my system as it avoids the problems of aggravating serotonin levels in the way that SSRI's/SNRI', would. The plus is that it would decrease my anxiety levels but nothing comes without a cost. Would it cause akinesia (uncontrollable movements)? She assure's me that that is not her experience of this drug. Lorazepam is also off the agenda - too much of a risk for addiction, more so than Diazepam. Thanks for your kind words Nikki. My son is my saviour. I don't have much by way of family. I was divorced such a long time ago and so far I've never been keen to consider it again (marriage that is). My ex departed the scene when my son was quite young. He didn't feel like he had much of a connection with him so it is just us two and a few good friends and my mother is too frail. Vanora Love to All

[Altostrata]

Vanora, severe and prolonged withdrawal syndrome is a very difficult condition. However, it does tend to get better over time.

 

Read this What is antidepressant withdrawal syndrome?

 

As I understand it, you get some relief from buspirone and lorazepam. This is about as good a result as I've heard.

 

Your doctor is incorrect about lorazepam being exceptionally addictive. All the benzos are addictive, but in your state, occasional use is a justifiable risk. Addictiveness of benzos versus dependency caused by other psychiatric drugs is only a semantic distinction.

 

Your doctor sounds helpful but she lacks knowledge. You might ask her to confer with Dr. David Healy in Wales.

I have never heard of an antipsychotic resolving antidepressant withdrawal syndrome. Amisulpride may incur a side effect of akathisia. If you can imagine something worse than intense anxiety, it would be akathisia.

 

Metyrapone is used as a one-time test for Cushing's and has been investigated only experimentally for other uses. No one knows what daily use would do. It could damage your adrenals, then you would have real problems.

 

It is likely your nervous system has become hypersensitive due to withdrawal syndrome. Any psychiatric drug is likely to cause unpleasant reactions and may make you worse.

 

Please try to stay calm and stop looking for a pill to save you. Unfortunately, we are all in the terrible situation of having an awful condition that medicine knows nothing about. You will need to be very strong to get through this and help your nervous system heal.

[Vanora]

Hi everyone, All of last year whilst I tried coming off Effexor and then had it reinstated along with Prozac and Seroquel I slept on my couch for the majority of the year. For the most part I slept with the aid of diazepam but when I wasn't asleep (such bliss to be unconscious), when I was awake I shook like I had terrible Parkison's disease. I could barely eat, clean my teeth or wash. My son did a lot of things for me, just so that I could survive. Now I am aware that instead of months, or even just a year, this process could take forever. Prof. Healy indicates that some sensitive people are never able to come off these drugs. I have been on these things for just over 30 years. Whenever in the past I've tried to come off antidepressants the anxiety has been unbelievable, I never get a break from it, it's either long term severe anxiety aided with diazepam to do what it can, or I try going back on another antidepressant and try a much slower taper. We all have our breaking point and I'm fast approaching mine. Prof. Healy does suggest the use of Imipramine as a means of withdrawal. This I am prepared to try in the full knowledge that I may be too hypersensitive to anything that manipulates serotonin. My psychiatrist is wonderfully agreeable to all the suggestions I've made to her. Being aware of my sensitivity to the introduction of other serotonin linked antidepressants my psychiatrist thought Amisulpride in a low dose might be a solution and at a later date I may wean off that. I didn't of course jump with joy at the thought of being put on this drug knowing what it can do. The anxiety I've experienced has worsened of late - maybe it was the Lamictal which I took every second day for two days in a half of a 5mg dosage, or maybe it was a short trial of niacin, or maybe it was none of those things at all. This leaves me with quite a dilemma. Most of my days are again spent on my couch trying to get through another day struggling terribly with anxiety. Neither the diazepam or the buspirone appear to do much of anything now. Perhaps next week will see me turn a corner - I will have anxiety I can contend with. My experience says not. I cannot live this way any more. Altostrata, you are a very knowledgeable person and I thank you ever so much for your kindly advice, I truly do appreciate it, but yes I do need a pill to help me out. I hope that I have not offended you by this final remark, that's not my intention. My first intention is to have a life beyond the confines of one room. Wishes of hope sent to all. Vanora

[Altostrata]

Of course, you need to do what you need to do to take care of yourself. I am glad you got advice from Dr. Healy. I believe working out a treatment plan with Dr. Healy and your doctor is the best for you.

 

Your doctor should speak directly to Dr. Healy, to avoid your misinterpreting information on an Internet forum site.

 

Good luck to you, I wish you the best.

[Vanora]

My anxiety symptoms remain at horrendous levels. I do wonder how long I can last given the state I'm in. I have asked my Psychiatrist by letter if she would confer with Prof David Healy for his input. He talks about switching to a less potent serotonin reuptake inhibitor on his web site such as citalopram or an older antidepressant such as imipramine. He refers to this as the "reduced potency approach". I'm willing to give it a go though I have some lingering doubts - would it make things worse? In the past I've tried to reintroduce Effexor at quite a high dosage to no effect apart from no resolution of my anxiety. If I reintroduced at its highest recommended dose would that make a difference? The idea would be to stabalise on it and then begin a slow taper lasting years.

Meanwhile Prof Healy even advocates St John's Wort as an aid to withdrawal on the basis that it is gentler way to go but when I tried it recently by taking a quarter of 40-73mg tablet initially it made me sleepy and a couple of hours later my anxiety was back with a vegeance. I think I've discovered like many others that if I tamper around too much with my system I pay a cost. This weekend I've had to resort to two 1mg tabs of Lorazepam yet again as a life saver. They are the only things that allow me have some relief from my chronic anxiety and I may have to take them again. Trouble is I'm running out of them and my psychiatrist isn't keen to prescribe them to me except in emergencies. So I need to cut them down and just rely on the Buspirone and the Diazepam if they will allow me.

I need an answer to this anxiety which is beyond unbearable. My psychiatrist thought an antipsychotic called Amisulpride might reduce my anxiety but any I've been put on others like these in the past and they have'nt helped presumably because they are'nt designed to help withdrawl from antidepressants.

Would it ultimately be my only course of action but to remain on some kind of Benzo indefinitively as bad as this may sound? My thoughts are never far away from thinking that I'm running out of options and I need to render myself permanently out of here. Funny thing, I find thinking even simple thoughts traumatic. Very weird to be that hypersensitve! Any and all thoughts on the above would be gratefully received. Vanora

PS Now with hindsight I wish I'd never attempted to withdraw from antidepressants because I've never been this close to self destruction in my life.

[Altostrata]

Do not take St. John's Wort. It is a noradrenergic, which can exacerbate anxiety.

 

Dr. Healy has given various advice over the years. You may be looking at information that is outdated.

 

Couldn't your doctor simply phone Dr. Healy?

[Nikki]

1978/79 put on Clomipramine.

Failed attempt to withdraw from Clomipramine/started on Seroxat 1992.

1997/98 Effexor replaces Seroxat.

2011 fail to withdraw from Effexor despite combined use of Prozac and Seroquel. Started on Cymbalta.

Anxiety not resolved by Cymbalta so taper off by 28th March 2012. Left on 10mg Buspirone and 1 quarter of 5mg Diazepam.

Anxiety at times very severe. 19th May take my first half of a 5mg Lamictal.

 

Vanora I had to read your signature a few times. I think that each time a medicaton was stopped you went thru withdrawal. It was mistaken and so more medication was prescribed and then stopped and this cycle has continued. Seroxat, Effexor and Cymbalta are murderous to get off of and their hallmark wd symptoms are anxiety.

 

As I said earlier, I did take Imipramine to get off Lexapro at the end of the Lexapro taper. I was out of my mind with anxiety, and was hoping I would go to bed and never wake up. I read what Dr. Healy suggested. From what I am learning here, the benzos are the last pills to taper off of.

 

You've been thru alot. Have your doctor and Dr. Healy discuss the imipramine and lofepramine. They are both prescribed for anxiety. Keep posting and let us know how you are getting on.....we are here to talk to when your anxiety crops up.

 

Hugs

[Vanora]

Thank you both Nikki and Altostrata for taking the time to reply to my posts. I do believe that trying St John's Wort as well as a high dose of Nicotinamide probably pushed me over the edge. I note the latter boosts serotonin levels. Either way I suffered a living hell this weekend, I definitely thought I wouldn't see the week begin but I'm still here. My son's obvious distress made me fight an overwhelming urge to end it all. I've had suicidal thoughts before but never at this intensity.

I managed to get through to my psychiatrist this morning and she has prescribed imipramine which I hope will end which has been the worst time of my life and that includes the breakdown that lead to my permanent relationship with antidepressants. Knowing that I may have to be on these drugs for life because I'm not sure I dare go through this again, makes me feel so defeated. The thing is I want a shot at life and if this is the penalty then so be it. I'II just have to accept the increased risk of heart disease, the possibility of osteoporosis later on life, though I'II try to offset this as much as I can. I will also have to accept the chronic nausea and poor memory though my psychiatrist assures me that neurons increase through taking antidepressants - at least I think that's what she said, I can't really remember! Of course I shouldn't forget the dry mouth and photo-sensitivity.

Please let the imipramine work and not make my anxiety worse. My psychiatrist tells me it works differently to SSRIs and should sedate me rather raise my anxiety levels. I was first put on a tricyclic like this a long time ago. What I remember was feeling constantly tired and dragging myself around in a haze. Perhaps I can reduce it once I've stabilised on it to mitigate this problem, but first let it work.

Altostrata, my psychiatrist says she will contact Prof Healy. I certainly need his input.

Finally. Nikki you are so kind, just knowing that you understand what I'm going through and that you want to try and help me gives me such comfort. You obviously have a very loving heart and thank you for it. Vanora

[Altostrata]

Vanora, once you stabilize on imipramine, you can taper off it gradually.

 

Cymbalta shares with Effexor an extremely difficult withdrawal.

 

You do not necessarily have to stay on an antidepressant the rest of your life.

 

Be sure to report your experience on davidhealy.org and his site rxisk.org

[Vanora]

Altostrata, I've started taking Imipramine (day 2) 25mg per day. It hasn't made any difference to my anxiety levels. I know it takes upwards of two to four weeks to work. Will it really work if I wait it out or will it be like the SSRIs and make me worse? Unfortunately, I think in the meantime I may have to continue with the Lorazepam. I have taken it off and on over the past 4 weeks at a dosage of two 1mg tablets per day and along with Buspirone I've usually taken one quarter Diazepam. Is it likely that I'm now hooked on these things? Sorry to continually pester you about these things but I need to know whether I'm in with a chance of alleviating my withdrawal anxiety by going on Impramine. Vanora

[Altostrata]

I don't know, Vanora. Dr. Healy is the best person to ask about this.

 

Is the buspirone doing anything for you? If not, you may wish to taper off it.

 

I have no idea if you will become dependent on the benzo. Some people do, and need to taper off carefully.

[Vanora]

Have been on Imipramine 25mg per day since the 29th of May. This is Sunday the 3rd of June and if anything my anxiety seems to be getting worse. Perhaps I should reduce the dose. I know you can feel anxiety levels increase in the first two to three weeks of being on this drug but I was hoping it wouldn't make me worse and might actually sedate me. When I was put on Clomipramine many years ago I remember it taking a while to work but it did eventually. This time around I wonder if any manipulation of my brain chemistry just results in increased anxiety. How long should I give it? Has anyone found that the reintroduction of any kind of antidepressant made things worse. I need to decrease my anxiety to bearable levels. I lie on my couch every day and have done so for about a year and 5 months and all I do is get myself through the next minute,hour,day. I shake alot sometimes, I can barely stand my own thoughts. Washing and eating are things I really think hard about doing. This is just hell on earth. Prof Healy makes mention of choline-esterase inhibitors as helping some people with withdrawal from ADs but I gather they are prescribed for people with dementia. In what way would they be helpful to people suffering withdrawal from antidepressants? I've discovered a supplement called Huperzine A is a choline-esterase inhibitor, could it be useful? Well, I've managed to post this message with the aid of Lorazepam but what I really need is a break. I don't know if this is relevant but each time I take Imipramine I can feel it surging anxiety real powerfully through my skull and I have to take Lorazepam to try and quell it. Altostrta, I gave Lamictal only 2 days (using it every second day at half of a 5mg dose) was that long enough? What were your anxiety levels prior to taking it. If I had the advice of a neuropsychiatrist would it make all the difference? I'm pretty desperate. Vanora

[Altostrata]

Yes, people's nervous systems can be so sensitized they cannot take any antidepressants. You cannot keep experimenting with information you find on the Internet. You need to work with a knowledgeable doctor.

 

Is your doctor communicating with Dr. Healy? He would be the best person to answer your questions.

 

If the imipramine is making you worse, if I were you, I would reduce it. Phone your doctor.

[Vanora]

Altostrata, My psychiatrist has contacted Prof. Healy but as yet no word - she has emailed him. If he decides for whatever reason not to respond would you know if Prof. Brian Harvey might have some advice for me? Last night I took half of a 5mg of a Lamictal tablet and felt immediately better a little sleepy but almost back to normal. I slept with the aid of a sleeping tablet but awoke with the usual bad anxiety I don't think this was induced by the Lamictal as it is usually at this level every day. I wish I had somebody to advise me on this. Do you know of anybody in the UK knowledgeable about the use of this drug for protracted withdrawal from antidepressants? What about a drug like Nepicastat would it help, I believe it inhibits the enzyme responsible for the conversion of dopamine into norepinephrine? Vanora