Bolouis: New member on 2nd serious attempt at withdrawal

[Bolouis]

Bolouis

 

Hi everyone - Firstly I'm so grateful for having found this forum through the podcast Let's talk withdrawal. I thought I was going mad as no one would believe the withdrawal symptoms I've been experiencing. Had I found these pages before I would have tapered much more slowly!

 

I have suffered with depression since I was a child but no one has ever asked me about my life or explored why I might be feeling this way. Along with most people, I was told that I had a chemical imbalance in my brain that could be fixed with antidepressants. Over the last few years and with the knowledge that all these meds do is numb me but I remained depressed, I started researching the topic and was gobsmacked by some of the research and information I found. So, I have been trying to get off them since 2017.

 

I am hoping that someone can help or advise me through the awful symptoms I have been experiencing every time I try to withdraw. My symptoms are:

• Crippling insomnia - I have been prescribed Zopiclone short term but without this I can only manage an hour or two dozing at best
• Foul metallic taste in my mouth
• Feeling flu like - hot/cold, shivery, achy, nauseous
• Headaches almost permanently, pain in my face and neck
• Tinnitus and brain zaps
• Anxiety/palpitations
• Gastric problems, constipation/diarrhea

 

My first proper attempt in 2017 lasted about 8 months but I became so ill that I gave up. At that time I didn't know what was wrong with me and had various blood tests and investigations only to be told there was nothing wrong. I wasn't at first depressed though (not that anyone would believe me). I think I probably became depressed through the illness so hence, I gave in and went back on the meds. I do believe I know the difference between feeling ill and depression but when you've been labelled for so many years, not even your loved ones believe you.

 

So this is my 2nd serious attempt and I've been off now for about 5 months. Again, the symptoms have returned exactly the same as the last time but more seriously this time I became extremely anxious and agitated and ended up in A&E in March this year having planned my suicide. I was put under the Acute mental health team and a psychiatrist but of course they said I had to go back on my meds and prescribed Mirtazapine 30mg. I tried to argue my case but felt I had to give in and took it for 3 days before stopping. I have still not told them that I'm not taking it because I'm scared that they will withdraw their support. I have been signed off sick from work for 2 months now and can't imagine how I will be able to return if this continues. I am aware that I probably tapered far too quickly but I can't go back now. I have great support from my brother and sister and they've helped me research this and claim benefits. I've also been doing daily meditations and yoga for the last couple of months. I think this helps a little especially with the insomnia. I've honestly been feeling so ill and exhausted that before finding this I was seriously thinking of just going back on the meds and admitting defeat once and for all. It's just so horrible when no one believes you or takes you seriously when you're trying your best to drag yourself through each day. So, any advice would be very welcome, so sorry if went on a bit...TIA

Edited May 7, 2020 by Gridley

[Gridley]

Welcome to SA, Bolouis.  I'm sorry you're going through this.  

 

You are experiencing withdrawal due to a too fast taper.  The symptoms you describe in your post are very typical of withdrawal.  

 

The good news is that you will heal and the damage is not permanent.  Unfortunately, there's no way to predict how long it will take to recover.  So that you have a better idea of what you're experiencing here is some information on withdrawal and the healing process.

 

What is withdrawal syndrome.

 

Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

When we take psychiatric medications, the CNS (central nervous system) responds by making changes over the months and years we take the drug(s). When the medication is discontinued, the CNS has to undo all the changes it made. Rebuilding the neurotransmitter production and reactivating the receptor and transporter cells takes time -- during that rebuilding process symptoms occur.  

 

These explain the healing process really well:

 

Video:  Healing From Antidepressants - Patterns of Recovery

 

Brain Remodelling 

 

We don't recommend a lot of supplements on SA, as many members report being sensitive to them due to our over-reactive nervous systems, but two supplements that we do recommend are magnesium (glycinate is a good form) and omega 3 (fish oil). Many people find these to be calming to the nervous system. 

 

Magnesium, nature's calcium channel blocker 

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil) 

 

Add in one at a time and at a low dose in case you do experience problems.

 

Here are some links to help you cope with anxiety.

 

Audio:  How to Recover from Anxiety - Dr Claire Weekes
 

VIDEO:  Peace from Nervous Suffering - Claire Weekes (1 hour) (http://sendvid.com/vgquc1dg)
 

Anxiety Stuff - all kinds of stuff about anxiety attacks and things that help …

 

10 minute Restorative Yoga for Relaxation | Up the wall

 

Here are some links to help with insomnia, which is one of the most common withdrawal symptoms.  Please be very careful with the Zopiclone, as it is very easy to become physiologically dependent on it.

 

Tips to help sleep - so many of us have that awful withdrawal insomnia

 

Relaxation exercises, guided meditations, calming videos, sleep hypnosis

 

Tricks and tips to fall asleep faster

 

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2017/02/16/tips-tricks-fall-asleep-faster.aspx?utm_source=dnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20170216Z1&et_cid=DM133787&et_rid=1889748952

 

This link contains helpful information, including insomnia and also non-drug coping skills.  

 

Important topics about symptoms, including sleep problems

 

Some members have found Melatonin helpful with insomnia.   

 

Melatonin for sleep   

 

It's best to start at a very low dosage, such as .25mg, and gradually increase if needed to the lowest effective dose.  

 

This is your Introduction topic, where you can ask questions and connect with other members.  We're glad you found your way here.

 

 

 

[Bolouis]

Thank you so much,  I will look into all your suggestions. I am so very grateful.

[Hanna72]

@Bolouis Glad you found your way in here. 🥰This site has personally been a lifesaver for me. And has a huge amount of great reading materials, information and support. 
Take good care of yourself and hang in there

My best wishes to you🙏

[Bolouis]

Thanks so much. Yes, I've already started reading. This is a life saver 😊

[Bolouis]

I know this is all very new to me and I probably just need to slow right down but I'm feeling so very overwhelmed, scared, angry and defeated right now. I don't know if I can do this, I don't feel strong enough. I'm angry with the drug companies, doctors and so called professionals. I want to scream and shout, I want to educate people and I want to give up, all at the same time. I feel like a child having a temper tantrum. I want to be better than this, I was better than this. I feel ashamed of being so self obsessed. I want to be a good person, I don't want to wallow in self pity. So many people are struggling with much more than me and there is so much suffering in the world right now. I want to be able to help people, I want to do some good in the world.

 

I'm so sorry but I feel like I need to put this somewhere. I hope it's okay, please take it down if not. I just don't know whether I can cope with these symptoms for months or even years longer. I might never get my sexual function back, I might not feel well for years and my doctor will probably never believe me. How am I going to get back to work, how am I going to cope financially, how will I be of any good to anyone? My employers think I've had a mental break down brought on by my 'depressive disorder' which is written on my sick note, I want them to know and understand the truth. How do you amazing people find the strength? I'm so tempted to just give up.

 

I'm so grateful for having found this forum so sorry if it sounds like I'm not. I think my WD symptoms and anxiety are at an all time high and it's probably not unreasonable to feel like this given all the truths I am uncovering. I'm just scared I haven't got the strength to see this through.

[Kerrym]

Hi,

Would you not increase your amitriptyline?

[Bolouis]

Yeah, I've certainly thought about that but was saving it until I stop the zopiclone which I have to stop soon, both because I want to and also the doctor won't give me any more..

[Bolouis]

I'm still not really sure how to use this site, feeling confused, overwhelmed and somewhat paranoid. I find it so hard to connect with people and feel so alone. Been trying to get my husband to read some of the information I've found so he can understand what's going on with me but he's always so busy and it doesn't seem important to him. I don't want to be so full of self pity but I'm really struggling, just stuck in my own head which is the worse place to be. Trying to meditate but struggling to sit still and quiet my mind.

[Hanna72]

@Bolouis Hey, you are not alone. 
I know how it feels to be stuck in thoughts and my own head. It’s good that you are trying to meditate, even for just one minute is a good start. This all takes practice and learning new coping skills takes time. Don’t beat yourself up, patience and time is important during this process. 
Have you ever read Eckhart Tolle books about mindfulness? It is helping me for my own anxiety. You can also check him out on YouTube. 
Hang in there,🙏

[Bolouis]

@Hanna72 Thank you so much, I'm so tearful today... Yes I've heard of Eckhart Tolle but never really looked any further so I will now. I know mindlefulness is so good for me so thanks again, I will hang in there 🌈

[Bolouis]

@Gridley  or anyone? Just wondered whether I could ask a couple of questions, I'm sure you guys are very busy.. I got some magnesium and thought it was a low dose but on closer inspection is 500mg which is probably way too high. Anyway, I took one a couple of days ago and have hardly been able to get out of bed since due to a worsening of my symptoms and a pounding migraine like headache. I'm guessing this is the magnesium, what dose would you suggest starting on and can you suggest a good brand?

 

The other thing is I'm wondering if it's worth me reinstating with Prozac or similar. From what I've read and understood so far, it's probably not worth it at over 5 months in WD but I'm really struggling with the symptoms, particularly physically and with little support around me I'm finding it really tough to get through each day. Thanks.

[Gridley]

10 minutes ago, Bolouis said:

500mg which is probably way too high.

Yes, that is way too high.  You could start off with 25mg or at most 50mg and see how that affects you.  If you do well there, you could slowly increase.  I can only tolerate 100mg, though some can go higher.

 

12 minutes ago, Bolouis said:

reinstating with Prozac or similar.

We don't recommend adding in a new drug to deal with withdrawal.

 

Are you still on Amitriptyline?  If so, at what dose?

[Bolouis]

@Gridley Thanks. Yes I'm still on amitriptyline and taking 20mg. Was thinking about increasing it when I stop the zopiclone which will run out in about a week. I'm on 3.75mg zopiclone. Would really appreciate your thoughts..

[Gridley]

53 minutes ago, Bolouis said:

@Gridley Thanks. Yes I'm still on amitriptyline and taking 20mg. Was thinking about increasing it when I stop the zopiclone which will run out in about a week. I'm on 3.75mg zopiclone. Would really appreciate your thoughts..

I would hold at your current dose of 20mg.  

[Bolouis]

Just want to say thank you @Gridley and report something positive for a change. I started on Omega 3 and have since introduced the reduced dose of 50mg magnesium and am feeling a definite reduction in my physical symptoms at last! This is the first time in all my withdrawal attempts that I have ever felt any relief so even if it's just a window, I'm very grateful. I still have the restlessness, anxiety and insomnia but hope to introduce melatonin soon. My zopiclone will run out in a couple of days so I guess I'll see how that goes. I'm not even going to attempt tapering the amitriptyline yet and will ask for advice when the time comes..baby steps..

 

Some hopeful news is that my GP has now acknowledged the withdrawal symptoms I'm experiencing from the Duloxetine, although she said I should feel better in a couple of weeks! - can't expect miracles I suppose but at least it's a step in the right direction.

 

@Hanna72 thank you so much for your kind words, just knowing I'm not alone makes all the difference on a bad day, I hope you are well ❤️ 

[Gridley]

2 hours ago, Bolouis said:

a step in the right direction.

 

That is all great news, Bolouis.  I'm very happy you're getting some relief.

[Bolouis]

Does anyone have any positive experiences with private psychiatrists or psychologists in the UK? I've literally been falling apart over the last month both physically and mentally. I'm now under the Community Mental Health Team after becoming suicidal but they're pretty useless and have no understanding of psychiatric drug withdrawal. I'm looking for private therapy now but it's a minefield and I don't want to waste my money.

[Bolouis]

Can anyone offer any advice on coping with the physical symptoms of WD?? I'm feeling pretty desperate today.. 

 

I'm 14 months in and have coped pretty well with the mental symptoms with psychological support and mindfulness and was actually feeling pretty good - I even walked the Camino de Santiago in the summer (albeit very slowly) - but I now feel worse than ever physically with persistent flu like symptoms, stiff neck and awful pains down my arms and can hardly get out of bed. I've been diagnosed with CFS which I know Drs do when they can't find anything else.. should I be taking their advice on this tho, is WD similar in that I shouldn't overdo things? I feel like I'm losing any sort of physical fitness I had and getting more depressed by the day

[Lucy1983]

Hi @Bolouis. When were you dx with CFS?  I was DX with it and fibromyalgia in 2002. My symptoms started in around 1999-2000. I suffered for years with the symptoms and then they just went away several years later. Looking back I can see my symptoms were due to my on again off again psych drug use. I would have long bouts of fatigue, severe mental fog, tightness (like wide rubber bands) around my ankles and head, periods that I could only take steps of an inch or 2 at a time and flu like symptoms. The dr's couldn't find a cause so hence the wrong dx of CFS/Fibro. I fully believe now it was all caused by central nervous system damage of WD. 

[Bolouis]

Thank you for your reply. I was diagnosed around 10 yrs ago and had similar  symptoms on and off throughout my adult life (I'm 51 now). It's entirely possible that this has coincided with AD changes or brief stops but it's difficult to remember.. all I know is both times I've seriously tried to stop in the last 5 or so yrs, the symptoms have been exactly the same, just more severe so I'm pretty sure it's WD. Don't think I'll ever get a GP to see this unfortunately tho. I'm just worried because the symptoms are definitely getting worse despite feeling so much better mentally. I don't get any windows that others talk about and haven't worked for nearly a year. At the moment all I see is my life slipping away..

[Lucy1983]

@BolouisLooking at your drug history it appears we have lots in common with the drug use. I too have had MH breakdowns after stopping but at the time didn't know WD was the cause. 

Unbelievable what these psych docs have done to us but I truly believe they were trying to help. They just don't know any better since they have bought the big pham lies.

 

I have learned so much about myself during this current WD. This is the first time I have tried to analyze why I think the way I do which is leading to internal/mental healing. I am getting mentally strong again. I just turned 67 and feel like I lost the last 24 yrs due to the psych drug use. I don't want to waste any more of my life. You are only 51 so you are ahead of my game. 

 

We will heal. We will be strong again. And I believe we will be better people because of this experience. 

 

[Bolouis]

Thanks so much, you have given me hope. I get so tempted to just reinstate some days but there's no certainty that that would help now anyway and I've come so far. It's so good to hear you're doing so much better now. 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Bolouis. I moved your post here to update your Introductions topic.

 

From your earlier posts, it appears magnesium had some benefit. Are you taking only 50mg magnesium per day? You could easily take 50 or 100mg 4 times a day.

 

When was the last time you had your thyroid medication adjusted? Why are you taking ropinerole? Highly recommend you look up the adverse effects of your drugs on drugs.com

 

 

[Bolouis]

Hi @Altostrata, thank you for your reply! I was nervous about increasing the magnesium as I started on 100mg and it made my symptoms worse so decreased to 50.. I guess I could try increasing now as it's been a while?

 

My thyroid was checked recently and was slightly high but not by much so my GP agreed to leave it. Interestingly tho, it did go too high quite quickly both times I've been in WD so was reduced about a year a go... I know to keep an eye on it now.

 

I take the ropinerole for Restless leg syndrome which I've had most of my life. I've been on it for around 4-5 yrs. I would really like to stop it as I'm aware it's pretty nasty but I'm terrified of rocking the boat right now by trying to WD off another drug.

 

I also take HRT which I've been on for 7 to 8 yrs but I reckon I'm through the menopause now so maybe this should be stopped. Also take antihistamines and nasal spray daily for nasal polyps and allergies. I think maybe I should get a med review? I just don't trust doctors much anymore and was so naive when I was put on all these drugs.. 😞

[Altostrata]

You could take 50mg magnesium or 25mg magnesium several times a day. It's more effective taken in small doses throughout the day.

 

It is possible fatigue is an adverse effect from ropinerole.

 

Please put ALL your drugs in the Drug Interactions Checker https://www.drugs.com/drug_interactions.php

and copy and paste the results or a link to them in this topic.

 

You may wish to put magnesium oil on your legs and do stretching exercises for the restless legs.

[Bolouis]

Thanks so much. The drug interaction checker showed no interactions.

[Bolouis]

Can anyone advise me whether reinstating at a very low dose may help me after 15 months? My physical symptoms are becoming worse by the day and I can hardly function some days. I used to be able to walk for miles and was always on my feet during the day... now I'm riddled with pain if I'm upright for longer than half an hour. I'm starting to really worry and don't know if I can carry on like this.

[Altostrata]

How did your symptoms change after you went off amitriptyline last October?

[Bolouis]

Thank you for your reply, I know you guys must be so busy.. Yes I have wondered about this and it is likely to be a contributing factor. The symptoms have been worse since around January and have been getting progressively worse since then. I naively thought I would be okay as I only ever took the Amitriptyline on and off and it was only 10mg..  How I wish I could start this process over again and do it properly! I'm in such a mess now and can't think straight. My mental health was really improving but has now taken such a huge nose dive, I'm losing the will and am feeling really desperate.