Carolina: How to calculate dosages for taper

[Carolina]

Hi @Altostrata, thank you for your advice. It makes sense to use remeron as a sleep ´aid’ while withdrawing from Lexapro. However, the side effects from remeron are too great at the moment so I’m going to try to come off the remeron first. But, as we all know,  our plans are constantly being changed by life events (especially in this arduous/ challenging situation) . So I am open to all possibilities. 

 

hi @JesusSavemefromWD. How are you? I hope you are better. Please, ask away. Don’t mind at all.

 

I crashed around 1 1/2-2 months after I stopped the Lexapro. Before fully crashing, I started experiencing broken sleep and obsessive thoughts. These were manageable and I thought I was going through a stressful period

 

However, my situation further deteriorated to the point where I suffered from complete insomnia, constant ocd ruminating thoughts, complete inability to eat, severe suicidal ideation, and ended up hospitalized.

 

I reinstated at the end of 2 months post zero. Istarted with 10 mg and quickly went up to 20 mg (prior to finding SA). 
 

Upon reinstatement,  my legs trembled terribly and I suffered jerks for about two weeks. I also felt overall malaise. That completely went away.
 

Remeron was added at the hospital because my sleep did not return upon reinstatement and insomnia was exacerbating all my other symptoms.  I continued to suffer from broken 4-5 hour sleep until about a month and a half ago. I now sleep 8-9 continuous hrs. My sleep is not broken anymore. However, I do not wake up feeling rested and am groggy/ fatigued throughout the day. 
 

I started feeling better around 6-8 weeks after reinstatement. However,  I am not back to where I was by any means and don’t think I ever will be. I think these experiences scar a person’s psyche as well as the cns. I will never be able to return to the ‘blissful ignorance’ or belief these medications are ‘innocuous’ . The entire experience has been, and continues to be, traumatizing and that changes a person. 
 

I still suffer from suicidal ideation, depression and from severe obsessive thoughts but am determined to learn to cope with them as opposed to relying or adding medications. They are considerably milder after reinstatement but they are present. I am able to fully function and ‘enjoy’ moments with my family. However, I am constantly tortured by my ocd thoughts.

 

As we all know, everyone’s experience is different and reinstatement is risky. 

I hope this helps you make your decision and more than that, I hope whatever you choose brings you a smoother journey. 
 

best,

Carolina

[Crochet]

Hi Carolina,

 

We seem to have a very similar history with Lexapro.  I agree with you regarding the trauma of this experience, I never could have imagined such a state existed.  I jumped off of 5mg of Lexapro on November 1, 2020 thinking it was a low dose and that I would just need to push through the withdrawals.  And I did, until I crashed in early January during a meditation retreat of all things.

 

I understand that you are not 100%, but I hope to be where you are soon.  At 45, I'm a little older than you, so maybe my brain takes longer to adjust.

 

Anyway, take care and I'm sorry that we are meeting in this way.  You sound like a pretty great person.

 

Take care,

Crochet

[Altostrata]

What are your adverse effects from Remeron? You may have less adverse effects with a lower dosage.

[Carolina]

Woke up at 5 am and was unable to get back to sleep. No cortisol wake up however. This is how it started last time before it deteriorated into full blown chaos. I am going to stay on 10 mg remeron for longer. Hope this was just a glitch. 

 

[Yesyes123]

Wish you peace and healing! We will all make it I'm sure. Can you imagine being drug-free and withdrawal free? It's not that far. A few years go by fast.

[Carolina]

Sleep has settled again. Slight uptick in irritability and aggression. I’ve noticed Distraction, exercise, nutrition (low histamine diet), and CBT are very helpful. 
 

Will hold at 10 mg until March 26 and then drop 10%. 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @Carolina, how are you doing?

[Carolina]

All goes relatively well with the remeron taper. I am at half the original dose. The taper has not been painless. It has been a roller coaster ride. 
 

I wonder if the deceases of remeron are what destabilize my system or if I never fully recovered from my crash in December. Starting a taper post crash is not ideal.

 

I have kept data and it seems that after 12 days or so I reach WD normal and am able to taper after about 20-25 days. 
 

I have been following the ‘listening to my body’ method instead of keeping a strict schedule. I hope this taper continues to go well. If this has already proven so very trying and horrible, I wonder how I am going to take on what comes next: my Mount Everest: Lexapro.

 

I just keep taking things one day at a time for now. 

[Gridley]

30 minutes ago, Carolina said:

I wonder how I am going to take on what comes next: my Mount Everest: Lexapro.

You will do fine.  I was on 20mg Lexapro starting in 2004, tapered for four years using the same taper rate you're tapering Remeron, jumped to zero at a very low dose 7 months ago and am doing fine.  It's very do-able.

Edited May 7, 2021 by Gridley

[Carolina]

I am down to 2.5 mg of remeron. I’ve hit the worst wave yet in my withdrawal journey. I am so very tired of waking up every day and fighting this. I truly need a break to regain some strength because, right now,  I have very little fight left in me. And yet I can’t get a break. I may stop tapering for a while. 
 

I refuse to live on these medications and yet don’t see how I’m going to be able to get off them. Even small drops of a medication I have ‘only’ been on only nine months , most of these months tapering said medication, impact me terribly. How will I possibly endure the withdrawal that will surely come when I begin to drop the medication I have been on almost a decade? 
 

I want peace. The worst part is the not knowing. If someone told me ‘ you will suffer horribly for 5 years but then it will be over’, I could endure the pain. But we don’t know when or if we will recover. Some symptoms may be permanent. Some people recover, some don’t. It’s the unknowns that really get me. 
 

Anyways, I am off to get some rest. At least I am sleeping six hours and I get a break when i sleep. Hoping I don’t wake up. Hoping this is all a terrible nightmare. 

[Carolina]

I decided to give myself a three month break from tapering and the following occurred: I continued to have the exact window wave pattern as when I was tapering the remeron. 

 

This lead me to the following questions

 

1) Does this mean that my window wave experience is a remnant of my Lexapro CT November 2020 and not the remeron taper?
2) In turn, does this mean the taper of the remeron isn’t affecting me to the level I though it was?

 

I have a decision to make also. I either stop the remeron taper and use the 2.5 mg of remeron I am currently still

taking to aid with sleep while I taper the Lexapro to 10 or 5 mg. Or I continue the remeron taper.

 

It is a tough decision as I don’t want to lengthen my body’s exposure and dependence to the remeron longer than necessary. And make it harder for me to taper it in the future. I have now been on the remeron 12 months.
This isn’t an issue with the Lexapro as I have been on it for eight years so one more year isn’t really going to make that much of a difference in terms of diminishing the time of exposure to it. 

 

On the other hand, One of the main symptoms of withdrawal that reared it’s ugly head last time I tried to come

off the Lexapro was insomnia. I could not even sleep one hour a night and truly decayed mentally. 
 

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated moderators. I know there are no clear cut decisions and answers but I value your thoughts and experience. 
 

thank you.