GiaK Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 (edited) Admin note: The Beyond Meds site is now located here: https://bipolarblast.wordpress.com/ Original post: http://beyondmeds.com/2012/06/11/cope-pain/ for photo illustrations you will need to go to the original link as I couldn't get them in this post. Coping with and healing body pain of withdrawal & withdrawal syndromes Getting well takes effort and time and listening to the body for most of us. These are some of the things I do to help with pain that is part of withdrawal syndromes for many people. I’ve collected several things I do to cope with the pain I experience as a result of long-term psychotropic drug use and the subsequent withdrawal pain I find myself in. Many people suffer from these pains upon withdrawal from many different psychiatric drugs and psychiatric drug classes so I thought I’d share how I cope. In most cases with most individuals the pain remits in time but that can take up to a few years in the worst case scenarios so we do need to have coping strategies in place while the time passes. This is by no means an exhaustive list of what might be done to cope with pain. Some of this pain is sometimes talked about as fibromyalgia. I don’t personally find that diagnosis helpful as it’s a garbage pail term, but the pain is very real. For additional discussion about the varieties of pain some of us with withdrawal syndromes experience see here: Dyesthesias: abnormal pain from psych drug withdrawal (includes info about several sorts of withdrawal pains too). These are all caused by the nervous system having been harmed by the neurotoxic drugs. I do yoga almost daily…generally just for about 10 minutes max as that is all I can manage. On good days I may do that twice a day. There remain days when I can’t do anything at all but those days are becoming fewer and yoga really helps almost always. See: Do Yoga at Home Yoga is also one of the primary ways I practice mindfulness and embodiment. It’s been, perhaps, my most important practice for healing all around. Rehabilitation too, from having been bedridden! I’m wanting to share a posture that’s really helped with pain/neuropathy and paresthesia etc. It’s very easy. It does not work in a structural sense. It’s energetic somehow, though I’m not an expert at yoga so I don’t know how it works. The thing is it temporarily, on good days, relieves pain in my whole body. Even in my arms. It’s like there is an energy shift of some sort while I do it and for a while afterwards. On a good day it’s a long while. It can also help relieve the physiological and iatrogenic terror that is associated with benzo withdrawal. Generally before this I do some brief standing postures that also stretch my body. If you are unfamiliar with yoga and need ideas you can google yoga postures and also check on youtube. And look here too. For simple beginner postures it’s a great way to start. In the long run a serious practice requires a teacher, but having taken yoga off and on for many years, right now what the computer offers us is plenty since many of us while sick can’t do altogether too much. The one that seems to offer relief at the end is simple and very powerful… legs against the wall: the below links are to photos of this posture...I don't know how to put a photo here...or you can go to the original post: http://beyondmeds.com/2012/06/11/cope-pain/ photos: http://beyondmeds.com/2011/02/20/copingpain/legsagainstwall/ AND http://beyondmeds.com/2011/02/20/copingpain/legwall/ Or I also have my butt a few inches from the wall. Feel free to make any adjustments your body finds necessary. Absolute form isn’t terribly important when it comes to finding some relief from the pain I’ve found. On some days doing this can alter the course of the day for the better. It’s really quite wonderful when it works that way. My longest and most frequently used strategy for combatting the daily pain from the iatrogenic pain of withdrawal are frequent epsom salt baths.I did a post on how I do that here. I actually sometimes put even more epsom salts in the water and have also found that a highly concentrated foot bath is very good for bedtime relaxation. I also take Tart Cherry Extractas a supplement. I did a post on it here. Anti inflammatory foods and diet can potentially help any and all pain (nothing is a cure-all) and neither has my heavy anti inflammatory diet been a cure-all for me but it does minimize pain. I’ve since also added Turmeric supplements. I like this one that has something added to aid absorption: Super Bio-curcumin. Identifying and eliminating food intolerances have been very important too. Food the body doesn’t like can add to inflammation. This may include foods that are generally considered healthy. (I can’t eat nightshade vegetables, for example). Finding and eliminating these foods has required (and continues to require) meticulous attention to diet and how foods effect my body. I continue to learn all the time. It’s possible to heal many food intolerances and once again be able to eat foods that offend but if one doesn’t eliminate them first it’s less likely. It can take years to clear things up. I am in process with this. See: Nutrition and Gut Health These suggestions are not exhaustive. People find many things to help. Also none of these things cure the pain but all of them can help one cope with an ongoing chronic situation. Slowing my situation has become less acute, but I still have significant issues. I often say, I’ve gotten much much better, but I am still very very sick. I don’t know how else to convey what this journey is like to those who’ve not passed through similar terrain! Hope this helps! For a toolbox of more extensive coping strategies for withdrawal issues in general see here: Tool box for coping with psychiatric drug withdrawal syndromes (and some chronic pain and/or illness too) I found this book, Freedom from Pain: Discover Your Body’s Power to Overcome Physical Pain helpful as well to deal with chronic pain issues. I have a post with an interview with the author here: Trauma is often held in the body and experienced as chronic pain original post: http://beyondmeds.com/2012/06/11/cope-pain/ Edited December 27, 2019 by Shep added admin note 1 Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Great info as always, Gia. I had no idea how apropos my Introductory heading would become as I sift thru the pain - mood connection. I never considered myself "traumatized" until recently. Now is when I would normally launch into apologizing and clarifying that "mine was not the 'usual and horrible trauma' such as physical child abuse" and downplay its role in my life.. I have had a front row seat to "physicians who throw pain patients into the 'somaticizer' trashcan" when MMPI or history reveals trauma and (per MD guidelines) "therefore will not respond to treatment". Pain drug treatment, of course. "However, perhaps antidepressants will be effective... along with a brief course of CBT..." [HUGE SARCASM SIGN] My thoughts are circuitous and evolving on this topic. I've vehemently contradict myself in related threads. "Pain is NOT part and parcel of psychological state... pain IS related to suppression/bottling of feelings and patterns... " The effect of repeated trauma on fight - flight - freeze response (I freeze)... learned helplessness (I hate that phrase but recognize myself in it and I REALLY HATE THAT)..."Learned restlessness" is interesting. In perusing the links within Gia's post, several words jumped out at me: 'dissociation' being the main one. My primary coping mechanism. I'm subconsciously employing it now with my mother's terminal condition and knowing I need to face that but having a difficult time with the miasma of emotions. I'm becoming acutely aware of how draining repression and dissociation are. If I try to let my mind go there, I am overcome by must-get-horizontal-NOW sleepiness. I feel comfortable being 2500 miles away on the left coast. Naptime. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted August 23, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted August 23, 2012 I stand for 8 hours a day and am constantly under stress. It is a rarity that I can relax. Yes, I should take deep breaths, meditate etc etc. Well I don't . BUT two years ago I found a high density roller that literally makes the difference between whether I am going to fall asleep or not or whether I can even lay down in bed without pain or not. Sometimes when I get in bed at night I hurt. My face hurts, my jaw hurts, every pressure point is tender and HOT. So how do I use it? I sit in it, I roll my butt on it until I feel a knot and I press on the knot. Sometimes I can actually feel the muscle "release". I'll sit on my side ( IT band) / hip on it and roll. I'll lay on the floor on TOP of it so my butt is at the bottom, my head is rested on the top and I'll extend my arms and slowky roll left and right over the knots in my shoulders. I can feel them release. It does take practice to figure out what will work but it isn't hard. I'll use it as a pillow while I watch TV and drape my neck over the top to stretch out those muscles. There are YOU tube vids that show you how to use it. I never bought a book. I just let my body tell me what to do. I do it in the sun. It is my favorite buddy and I will not ever be without one. The technique is called myofacial release & it saves me money. I can stretch my massage appts out by using it. Go here to read about it. http://www.amazon.com/36-Inch-Super-High-Density-Foam-Roller/dp/B0028KDC82/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1345687963&sr=8-2&keywords=j+fit Maybe someone else has used it? Maybe it doesn't work for some? I love it & it is cheap enough to try if you suffer from knotted up muscles. It's amazing how a muscle in my butt once released, relieves a face/ jaw nerve that is killing me. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amg2012 Posted August 23, 2012 Share Posted August 23, 2012 It is my favorite buddy and I will not ever be without one. The technique is called myofacial release & it saves me money. I can stretch my massage appts out by using it. Go here to read about it. http://www.amazon.com/36-Inch-Super-High-Density-Foam-Roller/dp/B0028KDC82/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1345687963&sr=8-2&keywords=j+fit Thanks for posting this, I am going to look into it as my body often goes out of alignment causing a great deal of muscle pain and tension. I usually manage to work this out by myself and think this could help. So thanks for going to this trouble. I think! Too much! Jan. 2009 150 mg. Venlafaxine 2012 5 June 112.5 mg. Venflx 25 June 75 mg. Venflx 8 July Fluox 5ML (0 Venflx)[/b] 10 July aprox. 20 mg Fluoxetine liquid, trouble measuring between 4 - 5 ml, 0 Venflx. 15 July Fluox 5 ML + Vnflx. 10 - 6 grains 24 July Fluox 5ML + 37.5 mg Venflx. 10 Aug Fluox 4.5 ML 13 Aug.Fluox 18 mg liquid; 18 Aug. Fluox 17 mg; 25 Aug. Fluox 16 mg; 2 Sept Fluox 15 mg; 10 Sept Fluox 14 mg; 17 Sept. Fluox 13.6 mg; 29 Sept. Fluox 13 mg. 7 Oct. Fluox 12 mg; 14 Oct. Fluox 11 mg; 21 Oct; Fluox 10 mg; 23 Oct. 9mg; 26 Oct. 8 mg. 21 Nov. 5 mg; 3 Nov. ZERO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted August 23, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted August 23, 2012 I stand for 8 hours a day and am constantly under stress. It is a rarity that I can relax. Yes, I should take deep breaths, meditate etc etc. Well I don't . BUT two years ago I found a high density roller that literally makes the difference between whether I am going to fall asleep or not or whether I can even lay down in bed without pain or not. Go here to read about it. http://www.amazon.com/36-Inch-Super-High-Density-Foam-Roller/dp/B0028KDC82/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1345687963&sr=8-2&keywords=j+fit Thanks, this looks great. I will be seeing my occupational therapist who does myofascial release in two weeks and will report back .. As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted August 30, 2012 Share Posted August 30, 2012 Foam rolling/SMR (Self Myofascial Release) it's quite a bit of controversial topic. There are a lot of people, especially in the strentgth and conditioning field, who find it pretty much essential. Others basically say it's a placebo at best, because soft tissues are not that easy (if not impossible) to "manipulate". I've been "rolling" for years, but later I'm starting to approach the other side of the fence, which look at pain, tension and all of this jazz from a more "neurological" view point. "Mesodermal" approach links: - a video tutorial with basic rolling drills. Mobility WOD - a site with lots of videos of similar drills. "Ectodermal" approach links: Paul Ingraham's site - tons of useful articles. Diane Jacobs' site - same but more difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted September 1, 2012 Administrator Share Posted September 1, 2012 I've found a roller helped my back and shoulder muscle pain. I also used to lie on it lengthwise (on my spine) and rock a little side to side to give my spine a massage, this felt good, too. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 this topic keeps coming up so a post for the blog is on the back burner...but I'm just not getting around to it...which means I'll share the info with you all since I promised Alto I'd get around to it... In any case I've had a long term problem with chronic and acute pain since withdrawal... I've had a huge amount of pain relief in the last 3 weeks or so. I do many things that help my foundational well-being so I don't believe this last bit is the only thing that's helping me, but it certainly nailed it for me... I'm using proteolytic enzymes and lots of anti-inflammatory foods and supplements… the foods and supplements are turmeric, tart cherry, ginger, cinnamon, (cayenne is good if you can do nightshades) I take the enzymes on an empty stomach and I took them every few hours until the pain mellowed…now I take them about 3 times a day… the anti-inflammatory foods/spices I buy as food and spice and use them liberally in my cooking and tea etc. But I also get a turmeric supplement with something that helps it absorb (tumeric on it's own doesn't absorb well by most accounts)…and the tart cherry is a supplement too and I take it several times a day. I also get a tincture of ginger and squirt it in water and tea for ease of preparation… but I also love getting big things of fresh ginger and simmering bits for tea and also cooking with it virtually no pain since I put this all together…(when I burned my hand very badly) now I'm doing it for my whole body…grateful I burned my hand!! I once did a post on tart cherry...just a bit more info on that here: http://beyondmeds.com/2010/09/01/tartcherry/ Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted September 27, 2012 Administrator Share Posted September 27, 2012 Thanks, Gia. Synchronicity -- a friend was just telling me how she takes turmeric capsules and consumes ginger to reduce pain in her hands. She says it seems to help. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 oh...I did another post on coping strategies for pain...some of which are still part of my protocol... so these may be helpful too: coping strategies for pain http://beyondmeds.com/2011/02/20/copingpain/ I will do another post with the new info I have at some point soon. Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted September 27, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 27, 2012 Thanks, Gia. Synchronicity -- a friend was just telling me how she takes turmeric capsules and consumes ginger to reduce pain in her hands. She says it seems to help. I just went to a seminar entitled Food For Thought: How Nutrients Affect Mental Health and the Brain which was presented by Merrily Kuhn, RN, CCRN, PDD, ND, PhD. One of the segments she did was on nutrients that help inflammation. She recommended Curcu-Gel Ultra Curcumin Spice Supplement 500mg, 60 Softgels by Solanova which she said is the best tumeric supplement. She takes it for her hands and said it was so potent the pain disappeared in TWO days. You can imagine my surprise when reading this post as I have an order ready to put through with Amazon for the Ultra Curcumin. Merrily said it should cost $24 for 2 months supply but I'm pulling up $29 with Google so I'm checking further today. I can hardly wait. The pain in my hands can get pretty intense. Guess I'll find out if it helps other types of pain as well!! She also gave info about chocolate (see chocolate thread) and gave recommends on Omega 3 supplements and I'll get that into the appropriate thread later As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 pretty sure this has the same active concoction and it's what I use...with bio-curcumin...which is what allows it to absorb better...it's a bit less expensive http://www.amazon.com/Life-Extension-Bio-curcumin-Vegetarian-Capsules/dp/B000X9P5GM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348752243&sr=8-1&keywords=Curcumin+life+extension Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 though I need to take it twice a day...and I do a whole lot of other things too... pain is very complex, involving body and mind intricately...so solving it tends to be different for everyone... Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted September 27, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 27, 2012 though I need to take it twice a day...and I do a whole lot of other things too... pain is very complex, involving body and mind intricately...so solving it tends to be different for everyone... The tumeric capsules are for BID, so your body is in tune with the research. pretty sure this has the same active concoction and it's what I use...with bio-curcumin...which is what allows it to absorb better...it's a bit less expensive http://www.amazon.com/Life-Extension-Bio-curcumin-Vegetarian-Capsules/dp/B000X9P5GM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348752243&sr=8-1&keywords=Curcumin+life+extension Hmmm, this brand is more than 25% less and nothing to sneeze at for long term use, but Merrily was really emphatic about the type she recommended. I'm planning to send her an email and will ask if her suggestion was based on the presence of bio-curcumin. And maybe order the more expensive stuff to start, then try the brand you recommended to see if it's as effective . I am very on board with this given the arthritis in my hands, and there is always the possibility it might help with fibro (I tried literally dozens of alternative treatments in the first years after being diagnosed and got really hurt by false hopes). PS.. her one day workshops are given all over the US, and I did an easy stint as a volunteer, so the cost was only $40. Anyone interested can go to www.ibpceu.com The book she co-authored is on Amazon. Yikes, it was cheaper buying to at the conference. Think I may get this thru my library to check it out first. As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted September 27, 2012 Author Share Posted September 27, 2012 given my pain is under control I'm happy with what I've come up with... have you ever tried using the proteolytic enzymes? I'm quite sure they are a helpful part of my combo. They need to be taken on an empty stomach...that's the most important part Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted September 27, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 27, 2012 given my pain is under control I'm happy with what I've come up with... have you ever tried using the proteolytic enzymes? I'm quite sure they are a helpful part of my combo. They need to be taken on an empty stomach...that's the most important part I just looked for them on Amazon, but don't know anything about them in particular. I think I'll try adding one thing at a time. You take Omega 3, tumeric, and proteolytic enzymes for inflammation? The only thing I've ever taken that helped was Lyrica, but that does not mean it's the only effective treatment out there (well, once in a while a Big Pharma fix can actually help ). The last foray I made into natural cures was with a woman in Boston who had helped her fibro by identifying foods she was allergic/sensitive to. But mine was triggered by a chronic strain that spread body wide (so without this trigger fibro would not have developed). I therefore did not take the strict diet route and try to eliminate any foods that cause sensitivities.. I don't think there are any, though of course staying away from toxic additives is good for all! PS.. did you read about the research that points to the development of gluten issues stemming from modern processing that does not allow yeast (fermentation) to do what it did historically.. so we don't have the type of glutens that are good for us? Very interesting stuff. As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted October 1, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 1, 2012 pretty sure this has the same active concoction and it's what I use...with bio-curcumin...which is what allows it to absorb better...it's a bit less expensive http://www.amazon.com/Life-Extension-Bio-curcumin-Vegetarian-Capsules/dp/B000X9P5GM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1348752243&sr=8-1&keywords=Curcumin+life+extension Hi Gia.. out of utter confusion, I joined consumerlabs. The type of Tumeric the nurse who ran the the nutrition shop suggested has BCM-95 may have even greater bioavailability, about 7 times that of normal curcumin according to consumer labs. Eeek, when all the supplements I need are added up they come to a rather tidy sum. You really think they may calm the nerves that transmit all the fibro pain? That would be nice.. Guess it's worth a try. At least it sounds like the arthritis pain in my hands should simmer down. As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 they're anti-inflammatory...I don't think saying they "calm nerves" is quite right. I also have no idea if what you got will help you. As I stated in my first post I have an extensive protocol...these supps are truly a small part of all I do. I really don't think they're enough on their own for people with severe issues. In conjunction with many other things they help me immensely. I encourage you to get as many anti-inflammatory REAL WHOLE foods in your diet which are in general far preferable to supplements. I do think these particular supplements I've added are extra potent as well as whole food based... the enzymes are just as important in my combination as well. Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted October 1, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 1, 2012 I just added proteolytic enzymes to my list... can you give me a link to info on their action? Any brand in particular? I'm not sure about antiinflammatory foods. I have a pretty extensive handout on all this.. anti-inflams foods are there too, but I can only digest in increments. Next on that front will be green tea.. duh, I can't remember how much I'm sposed to drink a day, something like FIVE good sized cups. And I don't like green tea.. guess I will have to learn. Thanks for your help. Edit.. Just came up with this. Guess Consumer Labs is as good a place as any to start. Link As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted October 1, 2012 Author Share Posted October 1, 2012 this is something a close friend of mine who is a chiropractor sent me in an email....I was asking her how to avoid sensitivities as I get allergic to everything So when I recommend patients do long term use of proteolytic enzymes for any purpose like fibrosis, inflammation, pain or virus, I have them switch to a different enzyme source with the completion of each bottle. For example, I will have them start with a bottle of Multizyme made with defatted fig and almond (2 caps, three times per day, with water, away from food), and when done with that switch to ones made from bromelain and papayain (I forget the one we carry), then when done with that with to one made with serrapepatase (we carry Serramend from Health Concerns). We do carry OmegaZyme from Garden of Life with is a spectrum enzyme product that has the proteolytics in it too. This rotation will avoid the issue where someone makes themselves allergic from overexposure to a food. I use SerraGold http://www.vitacost.com/enzymedica-serragold-120-capsules and Bromelain http://www.vitacost.com/country-life-triple-strength-bromelain and OmegaZyme http://www.vitacost.com/garden-of-life-omega-zyme I've been taking OmegaZyme for years and I've added the other two to do rotations... Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted October 2, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 2, 2012 this is something a close friend of mine who is a chiropractor sent me in an email....I was asking her how to avoid sensitivities as I get allergic to everything So when I recommend patients do long term use of proteolytic enzymes for any purpose like fibrosis, inflammation, pain or virus, I have them switch to a different enzyme source with the completion of each bottle. For example, I will have them start with a bottle of Multizyme made with defatted fig and almond (2 caps, three times per day, with water, away from food), and when done with that switch to ones made from bromelain and papayain (I forget the one we carry), then when done with that with to one made with serrapepatase (we carry Serramend from Health Concerns). We do carry OmegaZyme from Garden of Life with is a spectrum enzyme product that has the proteolytics in it too. This rotation will avoid the issue where someone makes themselves allergic from overexposure to a food. I use SerraGold http://www.vitacost.com/enzymedica-serragold-120-capsules and Bromelain http://www.vitacost.com/country-life-triple-strength-bromelain and OmegaZyme http://www.vitacost.com/garden-of-life-omega-zyme I've been taking OmegaZyme for years and I've added the other two to do rotations... Wow, so many considerations. I have a lot to read/study. Thanks so much for your help.. As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted October 2, 2012 Share Posted October 2, 2012 Yucca and Devil's Claw, anyone? Also, Cetyl-M (cetyl myristolate) is gaining popularity in equine vet medicine where joint pain relief that won't show in drug testing is a big issue. I have learned alot from veterinarians over the years. Please take no offense to the reference! http://www.horse.com/supplements/pain-relief/755/ Hyaluronic acid http://www.ehow.com/about_4607173_hyaluronic-acid-benefits.html Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted October 3, 2012 Author Share Posted October 3, 2012 I've made a post with the info in this thread, it's a bit more thorough and has a few more pieces of info and links... Adventures in natural pain relief http://wp.me/p5nnb-7O7 Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinxBolling Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 I'm wondering if anyone has any tips for treating headache and, for lack of a better term, neuropathic pain (burning/aching all over body) in protracted withdrawal. The pain never really goes away, it just gets better and worse. Advil improves it by maybe 15% (all other OTCs make it worse); I've been given opioids, tramadol, and other things but none of them work (some take away acute pain but increase dizziness and head pressure). I also try things like coherent breathing, mindfulness, warm baths. Concentrating on anything (reading, television, board games) tends to make the headache and burning worse. Any tips would be much appreciated! Binx -300 mg Wellbutrin 2002-2005 (withdrew cold turkey with only mild complications) -150 mg Wellbutrin, 10 mg Celexa 2006-2010 -Discontinued both cold turkey Jan 1 2011 -Unsuccessfully reinstated Celexa March 2011, but stuck with it until Jan 2012. -Remeron 7.5 since Jan 2013---only thing that puts a dent in perpetual headache and "akathisia" 6.5 mg Lamictal since Dec 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbarannamated Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Binx, I've had success with acupuncture in the past (prior to w/d) for head, back and neck pain. I'm not familiar with neuropathic pain (and hope to remain a stranger to it). Have opiates ever worked for your neuropathic pain (prior to w/d)? Just curious. I also use Salon Pas or similar OTC menthol patches, but again, not for neuropathic pain. You are probably aware... sumatriptan (all triptans for migraine) are serotonergic. Tramadol is very similar to SNRIs (Effexor, Pristiq) with some opioid affinity. Very confusing drug and metabolic profile/interactions. Coincidentally, i was prescribed Nucynta several years ago and toldit was similar to tramadol which is thought to be non-addictive. However, Nucynta is now a Schedule II (highly controlled due toaddiction potential). Not sure when that changed but thought i'd mention just FYI. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 9, 2013 Administrator Share Posted January 9, 2013 I found acupuncture to be very helpful for pain. Also, Epsom salts baths (magnesium) can give relief. You may be hypersensitive to light, causing the headaches, see our topics on this http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/304-light-sensitive-try-blocking-out-blue-light http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/251-light-flashes-made-me-sick/ For a while, bright lights were giving me migraines, but that went away. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinxBolling Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Yes, my understanding is that Tramadol has serotonin reuptake properties, which made me hesitant to take it, but it didn't work anyway (or, at least, not in the way it's supposed to). Neuropathic pain probably isn't the right terminology---I just don't have any technical vocabulary to describe it. It's basically a sort of burning pain that's worst in the head, but radiates throughout my entire body. It's accompanied by a sort of vibrating tremor and what feels like "pressure." But it's not localized pain, so I don't think salon pas would work. Opioids took the edge off the pain, but not the vibration and pressure that accompany or source it, so it clearly won't go away until the brain function improves. There's obviously some kind of misfiring/dysfunction in the brain that's responsible for it. Thanks, Binx -300 mg Wellbutrin 2002-2005 (withdrew cold turkey with only mild complications) -150 mg Wellbutrin, 10 mg Celexa 2006-2010 -Discontinued both cold turkey Jan 1 2011 -Unsuccessfully reinstated Celexa March 2011, but stuck with it until Jan 2012. -Remeron 7.5 since Jan 2013---only thing that puts a dent in perpetual headache and "akathisia" 6.5 mg Lamictal since Dec 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiaK Posted January 9, 2013 Author Share Posted January 9, 2013 I've done a couple of posts on pain in withdrawal...and how I've coped with it...I've learned to manage it fairly well now...but I use many methods at once...including yoga and meditation and supplements and diet... I don't imagine what works and learning to listen to ones body is ever quite the same for two different people...but this is what I've worked out. Adventures in natural pain relief and Coping with and healing body pain of withdrawal & withdrawal syndromes I no longer tolerate any pain relievers at all, so this is it for me... Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinxBolling Posted January 9, 2013 Share Posted January 9, 2013 Thanks---I tried acupuncture for quite a while but it didn't help. I don't think it's a light thing---early on in the withdrawal I was light sensitive, but not any more. It basically never goes away, so there really isn't a "trigger" as far as I can tell, but any attempts at prolonged concentration tend to make it worse. I'll try the Epsom salts! -300 mg Wellbutrin 2002-2005 (withdrew cold turkey with only mild complications) -150 mg Wellbutrin, 10 mg Celexa 2006-2010 -Discontinued both cold turkey Jan 1 2011 -Unsuccessfully reinstated Celexa March 2011, but stuck with it until Jan 2012. -Remeron 7.5 since Jan 2013---only thing that puts a dent in perpetual headache and "akathisia" 6.5 mg Lamictal since Dec 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BinxBolling Posted January 10, 2013 Share Posted January 10, 2013 Thanks, Silver Star. Very informative posts. I've tried Turmeric without much success, tried tart cherry a while ago for sleep when the insomnia was bad. Maybe I'll give that a shot again and some other things you mention. Much appreciated. -300 mg Wellbutrin 2002-2005 (withdrew cold turkey with only mild complications) -150 mg Wellbutrin, 10 mg Celexa 2006-2010 -Discontinued both cold turkey Jan 1 2011 -Unsuccessfully reinstated Celexa March 2011, but stuck with it until Jan 2012. -Remeron 7.5 since Jan 2013---only thing that puts a dent in perpetual headache and "akathisia" 6.5 mg Lamictal since Dec 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikam Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I wonder how to deal with phisical. I personally get frequent migraines, headaches. I was once in with a chronic pelvic pain condition for over one year. At present I have had an achilless tendon pain. My first response was always medication... I feel a bit lost now... - 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg - 6.11.2020- 75mg - 16.10.2020- 100mg - 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg - May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg - 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg - 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day - 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan - Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine - 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening 24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on 19.03.2020 😇 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Petunia Posted January 3, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted January 3, 2015 I feel the same way ikam, at the first sign of a headache I would go to my medicine cabinet and take the maximum dose of a strong pain reliever. But since going into withdrawal I'm sensitive to all medications and have had to learn how to deal with pain more naturally. I've found that drinking more water and laying in a quiet room can sometimes relieve a headache. If its real bad, I will take one aspirin, I seem to be able to tolerate this without any bad effects. One is often enough now to reduce even strong pain. Gentle stretching, massage and heat can reduce some kinds of muscle pain. Many people find acupuncture helpful. Here are some home remedies for joint pain: http://everydayroots.com/arthritis-remedies Maybe others can share what has worked for them. I'm not a doctor. My comments are not medical advise. These are my opinions based on my own experience and what I've learned. Please discuss your situation with a medical practitioner who has knowledge of tapering and withdrawal...if you are lucky enough to find one. My Introduction Thread Full Drug and Withdrawal History Brief Summary Several SSRIs for 13 years starting 1997 (for mild to moderate partly situational anxiety) Xanax PRN ~ Various other drugs over the years for side effects 2 month 'taper' off Lexapro 2010 Short acute withdrawal, followed by 2 -3 months of improvement then delayed protracted withdrawal DX ADHD followed by several years of stimulants and other drugs trying to manage increasing symptoms Failed reinstatement of Lexapro and trial of Prozac (became suicidal) May 2013 Found SA, learned about withdrawal, stopped taking drugs...healing begins. Protracted withdrawal, with a very sensitized nervous system, slowly recovering as time passes Supplements which have helped: Vitamin C, Magnesium, Taurine Bad reactions: Many supplements but mostly fish oil and Vitamin D June 2016 - Started daily juicing, mostly vegetables and lots of greens. Aug 2016 - Oct 2016 Best window ever, felt almost completely recovered Oct 2016 -Symptoms returned - bad days and less bad days. April 2018 - No windows, but significant improvement, it feels like permanent full recovery is close. VIDEO: Where did the chemical imbalance theory come from? VIDEO: How are psychiatric diagnoses made? VIDEO: Why do psychiatric drugs have withdrawal syndromes? VIDEO: Can psychiatric drugs cause long-lasting negative effects? VIDEO: Dr. Claire Weekes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikam Posted January 4, 2015 Share Posted January 4, 2015 I feel the same way ikam, at the first sign of a headache I would go to my medicine cabinet and take the maximum dose of a strong pain reliever. But since going into withdrawal I'm sensitive to all medications and have had to learn how to deal with pain more naturally. I've found that drinking more water and laying in a quiet room can sometimes relieve a headache. If its real bad, I will take one aspirin, I seem to be able to tolerate this without any bad effects. One is often enough now to reduce even strong pain. Gentle stretching, massage and heat can reduce some kinds of muscle pain. Many people find acupuncture helpful. Here are some home remedies for joint pain: http://everydayroots.com/arthritis-remedies Maybe others can share what has worked for them. I used to have acupuncture and trigger point physiotherapy for my pelvic pain + regular exercices...This helped... But as you said when the pain kicks in I tend to go to my medicine cabinet and take the strongest painkiller, or go to pharamacy and buy one, or get a doctor prescription for a stronger one... For me it is so important as I see that any phisical discomfort seems a trigger to restarting using drugs. Such as codeine; when I start it takes me long time to stop. Such as nasal spray. But also doxepin, which was prescribed to prevent migraines ans betablocker... So I need tp prepare well this time... I also hear that some pains relate to serotonin imbalance, eg. arthritis pain, or my achilles tendon pain... I know that I am more in phisical pain when stressed out. In my last job I was in enormous conflict on daily basis and had migraines three times a week... - 12.03.2021- doxepin- 50mg - 6.11.2020- 75mg - 16.10.2020- 100mg - 30.09.2020- doxepin- 125mg - May 2020, omeprazole 40mg switched to esomeprazole 20mg - 2012 re-started Doxepin 75mg, evening. Increased to 150mg - 2012, Atenolol 25mg, twice a day - 2016, Low dose of HRT in evening, Sandrena and Utrogestan - Long term of Nasal spray Otrivine - 2012, PPI Omeprazole 40mg-evening 24.10.2014- Started ESCITALOPRAM-first 5mg and then 10mg; due to the adverse symptoms reduced on 5.01.2015- Escitalopram- 2.5mg 22.07.2016- re-started reduction by 1% at a time. Completed tappering on 19.03.2020 😇 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hudgens Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Mindfulness works for even severe pain. It's all over the web and it's very simple so you can learn the techniques and start using them immediately. I use it for everything painful and I'd say it cuts out about 50-60% of the suffering usually involved. Just Google "Mindfulness for pain control". Sept 12th 1992-began taking Imipramine (50mgs) for panic attacks. Stopped Imipramine after 4 months (cold turkey). 7 months later experienced "mysterious" bad flu-like symptoms, although, without upper respiratory problems or fever. Because of this and a day of panic attacks, was put on Prozac (20mgs?) for 2 months and then, when that didn't work-was put back on Imipramine, plus Xanax 1 mg (4Xdaily)-October 1993. March 1999-switched from Imipramine (50mgs) to Celexa. 2008-switched to Pristiq for 3 months, then back to Effexor XR (after bad reaction to the Pristiq). Sept 1st 2010-Switched from Effexor XR (75mgs) to Effexor Generic (solid form) in preparation for taper. Nov 15th 2010-Began tapering from 75mgs Effexor Generic. January 13th 2014-.06mgs April 17th 2014- .03mgs May 11th 2014- .02mgs Ended taper October 31st 2014 Oct 4th 2015-11 months post taper and completely back to normal! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brighid Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 For pain that's related to the increased muscle tension of withdrawal, one thing I've done is work with a physical therapist, including a specialized PT for a year to treat pelvic floor disorder and its related pain. I've also worked with a PT for joint (sacroiliac) pain and am currently seeing a PT for issues related to my upper back, neck, and jaw and even my teeth (working my way up!). It's a lot of work, but I've had improvements so far, especially in areas where I have structural alignment issues as well. I've also seen a chiropractor and am doing tai chi, which includes qigong type meditative exercises that involve (among other things) relaxing the face, eyes, head, and jaw. There's just so much I can afford, but at least PT is covered by my insurance--and the PT practice I go to does a lot of holistic stuff. I try to stay away from analgesics, too, as I don't know anymore how anything will affect me. Heat, relaxation, gentle exercise (half-hour walk every day), meditation, careful stretching, Epsom salt baths and magnesium oil--all have been helpful to me. 1990 - mid-2000s: on and off several ADs, including Prozac, Effexor, Celexa, and Wellbutrin. Many side-effects and hard withdrawals. 1990 - mid-2000s: Klonopin 0.5 mg per day prn for sleep & anxiety. mid-2000s - 2011: switched dosing to Klonopin 0.25 twice-daily for the above plus back pain (!) Never increased dose. 2011 - began taper with missteps; then @ 5% of current dose every 2 wks, using combo of pill and compounded liquid. 2012: yearlong hold at 0.165 bid to undergo specialized PT for pelvic floor syndrome, prob triggered by high muscle tone from taper. 2013: resumed taper @ 5% of current dose per month, from 0.165 down to 0.155 bid. 3/2013 - 6/2014: another year+ hold due to bad foot fracture & family trauma (sudden deaths). 6/2014 - 1/2015: resumed taper at 5% month; from 0.155 down to 0.125 bid (half original dose; or 1/4 of 0.5 tab). Held two months. 3/2015: Started 0.125 compounded tablets pure clonazepam, twice a day. Supplements: fish oil, probiotics, cranberry, Vit C, Vit D, turmeric, magnesium powder, tablets, oil. Also occasional baby aspirin. Exquisitely sensitive to meds. Working full time. In my late fifties. My intro thread: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/8733-brighids-intro-my-slow-mo-clonazepam-taper-hits-a-speed-bump/?p=145214 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus JanCarol Posted March 17, 2015 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted March 17, 2015 I love Petu's list. I'm only gonna agree with most of you about magnesium, epsom salts, and chime in as well - topical preparations like FisioCreme, IcyHot, BenGay, chinese linament. I used to use horse linament, including DMSO (hay - it's good for the horses, not sure why they don't use it in humans more) when my back was so bad. And alternating heat packs and ice packs (though it's not good to have them near the brain, so I keep a wheat pack in the freezer - it never freezes totally, but is cool, and can help without being too much for your brain) But now, my husband gets nauseous when I use anything with menthol (the "cool" feeling in linament, and also the salicylic pain reliever), so I've had to get creative. Try a few "arthritis" or "sports" cremes to see if anything helps. A very gentle one (would probably work with Petu's water and dark room lie down) is a dab of pure lavender oil on the temples. I've recently become a fan of chinese patches, you can put them on the sore spot and leave it there for up to 5 days. I prefer the Chinese ones to the drug store ones, which are usually capsicain (hot pepper) and burn my skin unbearably. This is one I struggle with, too. For the Achilles, I have found (I use this on my hand) Rocktape. It's a special compression tape, with more support than regular strapping tape. Extreme athletes use it to push their bodies past their limits - I use it to live another day, maybe make it to older age! I plan to also use it on my knee next time I try some sport. "Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again. My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices. A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia. CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013. Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine). Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 - Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years on Lithium). Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made. The tedious thread (my intro): JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium The happy thread (my success story): JanCarol - Undiagnosed Off all bipolar drugs My own blog: https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/ I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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