conducked: wanting to get off Pristiq

[Shep]

On 8/22/2023 at 7:06 AM, Shep said:

You may want to up it to 3 mg as a test, since it's been a few weeks since your last reduction. If you don't have a reaction, you may even want to go up more to that last 5 mg dose you were on before this last reduction. 

 

23 hours ago, Shep said:

As mentioned earlier, you may want to go with a very low updose, perhaps up from 2.5 mg to 3 mg. However, the longer you wait to updose, the smaller the amount of the updose should be. The goal of an updose is to meet the nervous system where it's at - and it's changed since you were last at 25 mg. That's why we recommend these types of tiny updoses. 

 

Please read the information already provided. Also, keep in mind it's possible to become dependent on a higher dose while your nervous system is hyper-reacting to a too-high reinstatement. 

 

Please add dates to your signature. A direct link to your signature is here:

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

We need to know the month and year for each of your reductions. 

Edited September 3, 2023 by Shep
added more information

[conducked]

15 minutes ago, Shep said:

 

 

Please read the information already provided. Also, keep in mind it's possible to become dependent on a higher dose while your nervous system is hyper-reacting to a too-high reinstatement. 

 

Please add dates to your signature. A direct link to your signature is here:

 

Account Settings – Create or Edit a signature

 

We need to know the month and year for each of your reductions. 

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding I'm going to go back to 50mg and stopping tapering.

 

would you recommend to goto 5mg then up higher from there I know 3mg would be best but the doctor is pushing to go back to 50mg in a month and I want to do it slower since it has been a while since being on 50, what I'm thinking is do 5mg for a week then 10mg for another week until I can get back upto 50mg or is that too fast

[Shep]

@conducked Please work with your doctor for this. It's dangerous and not what we would recommend. If you read through your thread, you'll see posts where you've stated that you "have gone to about 50 different doctors over 3-4 years and each one said to taper in a month" and you're repeating the line that doctors are either "forcing" you or "pushing" you into reckless, rapid tapering. Unless you're under a court order for forced "treatment," you're free to chose what you put into your body. There's nothing magical about doctors or their pills. They've caused millions of people to be disabled globally. We don't owe psychiatry (or other doctors pushing these drugs) anything. They are drug dealers, most of whom are completely ignorant about the harm they're causing. 

 

Once you have stabilized on whatever it is you decide to do AND you can take control over your taper and what you put into your own body, then we can help you with your taper. While you're this invested in having to have a doctor help you with your taper and in finding the *perfect* doctor to do so, we can't help you. You've been here for over 2 years and have ignored our advice so far for a reduction of no more than 10% a month, based on the prior month's dose (not the originally prescribed dose). 

 

The main issue I see is that you haven't un-patiented yourself. This can mean letting go of psychiatric labels, letting go of the concept of the chemical imbalance (we know it isn't true, see this thread - Again, the chemical imbalance is a myth), and being able to take charge of your drugs and your taper. Any doctor will prescribe these drugs. You're in charge of how much you take. 

 

You may want to read Robert Whitaker's book Anatomy of an Epidemic. Whitaker's work comes highly recommended here. He also runs the website Mad in America. 

 

Also, there's this brilliant documentary called Medicating Normal, which you may be able to google to find ways to stream it. They also have a YouTube channel with a number of videos you may find helpful - Medicating Normal YouTube Channel

 

The more you know about these drugs and big pharma's role in manipulating the scientific data, the more confident you may become in taking charge of your taper. 

[conducked]

1 hour ago, Shep said:

@conducked Please work with your doctor for this. It's dangerous and not what we would recommend. If you read through your thread, you'll see posts where you've stated that you "have gone to about 50 different doctors over 3-4 years and each one said to taper in a month" and you're repeating the line that doctors are either "forcing" you or "pushing" you into reckless, rapid tapering. Unless you're under a court order for forced "treatment," you're free to chose what you put into your body. There's nothing magical about doctors or their pills. They've caused millions of people to be disabled globally. We don't owe psychiatry (or other doctors pushing these drugs) anything. They are drug dealers, most of whom are completely ignorant about the harm they're causing. 

 

Once you have stabilized on whatever it is you decide to do AND you can take control over your taper and what you put into your own body, then we can help you with your taper. While you're this invested in having to have a doctor help you with your taper and in finding the *perfect* doctor to do so, we can't help you. You've been here for over 2 years and have ignored our advice so far for a reduction of no more than 10% a month, based on the prior month's dose (not the originally prescribed dose). 

 

The main issue I see is that you haven't un-patiented yourself. This can mean letting go of psychiatric labels, letting gdo of the concept of the chemical imbalance (we know it isn't true, see this thread - Again, the chemical imbalance is a myth), and being able to take charge of your drugs and your taper. Any doctor will prescribe these drugs. You're in charge of how much you take. 

 

You may want to read Robert Whitaker's book Anatomy of an Epidemic. Whitaker's work comes highly recommended here. He also runs the website Mad in America. 

 

Also, there's this brilliant documentary called Medicating Normal, which you may be able to google to find ways to stream it. They also have a YouTube channel with a number of videos you may find helpful - Medicating Normal YouTube Channel

 

The more you know about these drugs and big pharma's role in manipulating the scientific data, the more confident you may become in taking charge of your taper. 

Hey I have been working with my doctor and he want's me to stop tapering as I have mentioned before he wants me to go back to 50mg because of issues with my mental health at the moment also I have mentioned that earlier, that's why I asked what do you recommend to do to get back to 50mg.

I have stabilized but every now and then I get really bad, I haven't meant to not listen to the advice since the advice does state to try cutting also but its not recommended so I went the slow taper,  I have said to every doctor I asked about tapering the mg down 10%  and they get apprehensive and wont give the script because everyone that tapers here in Australia goes off medication very quickly and they all say I am the longest taper they have seen. I have to come to compromises with the doctor hence dropping 5mg (different doctors I got the scripts from not just one I even had some doctors not give me a script because they didn't like me not just coming off them faster so I went elsewhere and made a compromise for 5mg drop so I chose my battles and I took what i could win)

I'm not too sure what you mean by here because I definitely have the withdrawals and this entire time it has actually been just me tapering I haven't had any help this entire time I've only asked for scripts and try to compromise with different doctors to get them to drop my medication because as I said above they get people to drop fast and it works for these other people. This doctor I am currently seeking is helping a lot more then any of the other doctors as I have mentioned I can see he wants what's best for me, ( last few weeks I haven't been able to sleep, having panic attack, feel like I cannot do life anymore and that I'm dying and feel like I'm gonna hurt myself so he wants me to go up in meds so I don't because it seems like I still have some issues going on and prior issues also)

I've definitely seen a lot on this drug and tapering I have watched some of those already, and as I said I have been the one in control of the taper as much as I could be, when I need a script I need to make a compromise otherwise I don't get the script, I'm not sure what it's like in America but here the lowest amount we have is 50mg for Pristiq and the way everyone is advised to taper is to just cut the tablet or take it alternative days and they are not use to seeing people like myself who wants to do it properly 

As I have said I am currently wanting to go back up to 50mg since I have some issues going on but I would also love to try a new medication since Pristiq did stop working for a while

What I am currently doing is taking my 2.5mg and I'm going to continue taking this for this month and if I can do it without getting real bad next month so I can even out, every time I get a new script I don't know if they do the right strength (compounded) because taking the new medication this month it really messed me up but I will be staying at 2.5mg unless I start getting bad again.

 

[Shep]

21 hours ago, conducked said:

Hey I have been working with my doctor and he want's me to stop tapering as I have mentioned before he wants me to go back to 50mg because of issues with my mental health at the moment also I have mentioned that earlier, that's why I asked what do you recommend to do to get back to 50mg.

 

21 hours ago, conducked said:

As I have said I am currently wanting to go back up to 50mg since I have some issues going on but I would also love to try a new medication since Pristiq did stop working for a while

 

Conducked, just so there's no miscommunication - is your end goal to get off of psychiatric drugs or are you here to get back on a full (what your doctor would call a "therapeutic dose") or switch to a new drug to deal with your so-called "mental health" issues?

 

Do you believe you have "mental health" issues that are not related to the side effects and withdrawal of your current drug? 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Shep
added an additional quote for clarity

[JanCarol]

Hey Conducked,

First, what you did is what we call a straight-line taper.  This means that - by the time you got to 2.5 mg, you had some stacks of symptoms.  They back up every 3 weeks, and over 10 months, you probably have about 30 mg worth of symptoms.   Dr. Mark Horowitz explains it really well in this vid. the part I'm thinking of - a chart - starts at 20:40 :

 

We recommend parabolic tapers, which means that as you get further down in doses, you go by incrementally smaller amounts.  10% of previous dose:  Why Taper by 10%?  (link is also above, have you read that one?  It's important!).  This is a way of preventing symptoms, of sneaking the drug out without the body noticing.  That is not what you've done, and - we have heard you asking for advice, but not heard what symptoms you are experiencing.  What is happening?

 

Here is my concern for you bouncing all the way back up to 50 mg.  You've withdrawn, and your body is used to a lower dose.  We don't know exactly what that dose is, what your body has tolerated.  If you had been tapering the SA way instead of straight-line, you would be on about 20 mg by now.  But if you go back up to the full dose, you may throw your systems into overdrive.  It doesn't always happen, but I've seen it happen enough that I am compelled to tell you - it happens.  People go back on full dose, and it's worse than before.  You run the risk of Kindling.

 

If I were you, and I'd made it all the way down to 2.5 mg, I would updose a little.  Maybe to 5 mg at most.  I would go to a doc and get the script (lord knows they hand them out easily enough) and do my own business with the script.  Chessie's method has worked for Chessie (2x daily dosing in liquid).  If you want it compounded, that's another layer of challenge, finding a prescriber who will prescribe compounded - at YOUR rate, not at his/her rate.

Please let us know what you decide,

I hope you see the Sun today!

Edited September 5, 2023 by JanCarol

[JanCarol]

I see you are in Brizzy.

I used to have good access to prescribers, sadly, not so much post-COVID.  My p-doc was Dr. KT MacLachlan down on Wickham Terrace.  She didn't really believe in SA, but I educated her, and she watched me succeed (others in her practice did not get off the drugs - so I'm not sure what her current take on tapering is).  I've been meaning to write her a letter about the red flags (lithium poisoning) that we should have caught.  The labs were fine - the goitre & the diabetes insipidus, not so much.

 

Dr. Rob Purssey is famous for too-fast.  He loves his ACT, and it should be "enough" to cover the severe chemical side effects of withdrawal.  (cough, cough)

 

But if you do a search for "Bio-Balance" "MD's" you may be able to find someone a little more flexible.  I'm currently using Dr. Mark Goss at Aspley, but - his focus is more hormonal, thyroid (and AHPRA is on his back for those) - I don't think he does psych drugs.  I also have an excellent, affordable compounder, who might even adjust doses for you - he did so with my LDN, as we had to ramp up carefully.  So - he made up the 4.5 mg dose into 0.5 mg capsules and 1.0 mg capsules, so that I could gradually increase until I got to full dose.  Ian Owles, Australian Online Compounding Chemist (nationwide).  Again, that was 5 years ago, he may have had to change his policies since then.

It is a challenge here to find a doctor who is willing to fly in the face of AHPRA & TGA guidelines.  These tapers are not accounted for in their protocols.  You may PM me if you want to talk about suburbs & other possible medical practitioners for you.

You're young, you can get through this.  It's brilliant that you are doing so as a young person, instead of waiting until your whole life passed you by.

I hope you see the sun today.

[conducked]

5 hours ago, Shep said:

 

 

Conducked, just so there's no miscommunication - is your end goal to get off of psychiatric drugs or are you here to get back on a full (what your doctor would call a "therapeutic dose") or switch to a new drug to deal with your so-called "mental health" issues?

 

Do you believe you have "mental health" issues that are not related to the side effects and withdrawal of your current drug? 

 

When I first started to taper my goal was to try and come off them to see how I can react to everything but if i need to get back on them i am happy to do so, the doctor I was seeing at the start of my taper quit the clinic I was at and I cannot find them so I didn't really have a plan with anyone after they left, it was mainly to try and see if I can come off if I cannot then come back on or try a different medication if ive already been off the meds.

 

Yes I do have mental health issues that isnt apart of the taper, at the time of taper, tho I thought I had it under control but I was wrong..

[conducked]

3 hours ago, JanCarol said:

Hey Conducked,

First, what you did is what we call a straight-line taper.  This means that - by the time you got to 2.5 mg, you had some stacks of symptoms.  They back up every 3 weeks, and over 10 months, you probably have about 30 mg worth of symptoms.   Dr. Mark Horowitz explains it really well in this vid. the part I'm thinking of - a chart - starts at 20:40 :

 

We recommend parabolic tapers, which means that as you get further down in doses, you go by incrementally smaller amounts.  10% of previous dose:  Why Taper by 10%?  (link is also above, have you read that one?  It's important!).  This is a way of preventing symptoms, of sneaking the drug out without the body noticing.  That is not what you've done, and - we have heard you asking for advice, but not heard what symptoms you are experiencing.  What is happening?

 

Here is my concern for you bouncing all the way back up to 50 mg.  You've withdrawn, and your body is used to a lower dose.  We don't know exactly what that dose is, what your body has tolerated.  If you had been tapering the SA way instead of straight-line, you would be on about 20 mg by now.  But if you go back up to the full dose, you may throw your systems into overdrive.  It doesn't always happen, but I've seen it happen enough that I am compelled to tell you - it happens.  People go back on full dose, and it's worse than before.  You run the risk of Kindling.

 

If I were you, and I'd made it all the way down to 2.5 mg, I would updose a little.  Maybe to 5 mg at most.  I would go to a doc and get the script (lord knows they hand them out easily enough) and do my own business with the script.  Chessie's method has worked for Chessie (2x daily dosing in liquid).  If you want it compounded, that's another layer of challenge, finding a prescriber who will prescribe compounded - at YOUR rate, not at his/her rate.

Please let us know what you decide,

I hope you see the Sun today!

 

Ah okay I'll have to have a watch of that video thank you for that, good to have that information under my belt

 

When I first started I had full intentions of doing the taper 10% thought talking to the doctors here in aus is like talking to a brick wall they'll give a script but to their liking, so far every doctor I spoke to about the slow taper have all said im the slowest they've ever seen and it makes it harder to talk them into doing it for me

 

 

That was my concern also jumping back upto 50 especially faster id be happy to do so over a period of time since I know a lot of things have changed in my brain and my body but I don't want to upset it by jumping up faster then I need to, id be happy to jump up the 5mg a month but that seems to be too high for dropping so I I'm not sure how it would go for going up in strength to 50 if I do go that route

 

Currently I am on 2.5mg and I have started last Thursday my second bottle of 2.5mg about 36 days on 2.5mg and I'm not sure if the compound pharmacy mixed it up correctly or what's happening but I had a lot of symptoms as soon as I started taking the next bottle

 

I'm happy to get a script for 5mg and I'm about to try getting one! If I do decide to go back upto 50mg how would you recommend doing so? That won't hurt so badly I'm happy to go up slowly just so it doesn't hurt so badly (I will try 5mg for 2 months if you guys agree to see if I can smooth things out a bit but just incase id love to know the best route) 

 

The withdrawals I have been getting throughout have been different really, at the higher doses I was feeling good for the first few days I felt a little off but I bounced back quickly once I got to around 25mg I noticed it would take me about 2 weeks to bounce back and not a few days, 15mg and under hit me the hardest as I started feeling nauseous and dizzy and weak all the time ( I have felt dizzy and weak all the time even on 50mg just a bit more as i started tapering and worsr at lower doses) when I got to 10mg and 5mg my wife kept telling me I was real emotional ( snappy, sad ) I felt real bad, started having panic attacks again and I was getting the feeling I couldn't do the taper anymore and that it was too much, I tried to push through it until i saw my doc to see if i can take something in conjunction to help with the withdrawals but he didnt want me taking anything else with it  and when I dropped to 2.5mg I was buggered for 2 weeks i felt like I couldn't do it anymore and i was lost, when I reposted to get advice recently I had the worst panic attacks, feeling nauseous weak and just felt like I was dying and that i couldn't do this at all anymore, my doctor gave me his private number the next day because I got so bad with my panic attacks and feeling sick he said to get in contact if I need anything at all, he recommended me to go back up due to everything going on in my life at the moment and said it could be from issues I have unresolved and the taper which is both true unfortunately ( I do have mental health issues and feel crazy all the time) the thing is he wants me to go too fast and I don't agree with that

 

With the last part that all scared me too much so I just went the compound route since it's only about $45-50 aud per month for the bottle at lower doses (I am In the lowest earning bracket but 50 isn't as bad as I thought it would be)

 

Thanks for reading my big paragraph and I apologize if I make 0 sense in certain parts it's 4am and I have insomnia atm

 

 

[conducked]

4 hours ago, JanCarol said:

I see you are in Brizzy.

I used to have good access to prescribers, sadly, not so much post-COVID.  My p-doc was Dr. KT MacLachlan down on Wickham Terrace.  She didn't really believe in SA, but I educated her, and she watched me succeed (others in her practice did not get off the drugs - so I'm not sure what her current take on tapering is).  I've been meaning to write her a letter about the red flags (lithium poisoning) that we should have caught.  The labs were fine - the goitre & the diabetes insipidus, not so much.

 

Dr. Rob Purssey is famous for too-fast.  He loves his ACT, and it should be "enough" to cover the severe chemical side effects of withdrawal.  (cough, cough)

 

But if you do a search for "Bio-Balance" "MD's" you may be able to find someone a little more flexible.  I'm currently using Dr. Mark Goss at Aspley, but - his focus is more hormonal, thyroid (and AHPRA is on his back for those) - I don't think he does psych drugs.  I also have an excellent, affordable compounder, who might even adjust doses for you - he did so with my LDN, as we had to ramp up carefully.  So - he made up the 4.5 mg dose into 0.5 mg capsules and 1.0 mg capsules, so that I could gradually increase until I got to full dose.  Ian Owles, Australian Online Compounding Chemist (nationwide).  Again, that was 5 years ago, he may have had to change his policies since then.

It is a challenge here to find a doctor who is willing to fly in the face of AHPRA & TGA guidelines.  These tapers are not accounted for in their protocols.  You may PM me if you want to talk about suburbs & other possible medical practitioners for you.

You're young, you can get through this.  It's brilliant that you are doing so as a young person, instead of waiting until your whole life passed you by.

I hope you see the sun today.

 

I'm glad to hear you where able to consult with your doctor about it, my current one is willing to listen but as you know most are set in there ways!

 

That's not good to hear about the other issues you encountered I hope everything is okay!

 

I can't speak for my bloods as I still have a blood test from 2 years ago I'm petrified of them and I tend to get almost faint and for 30 mins after I have issues with almost fainting still lol

 

I'll have to send you a pm since you seem to be within a 30 minute radius of me and get your preferences on some docs! But I'll also Google the bio balance docs to get a good idea, are they bulked billed? As for compounding I'm open to more options I've been currenting going to your-solution compounding in brendale and the doses seem a little different each time I get the same amount is he local btw?

 

I agree my doc was going to prescribe me with something else to help with the taper but he saw I have kids also and he didn't realise that and said he didnt really want to put me on anything else until december since extra details came to light (me having kids) and to be honest I understand but was stressing how I would feel, this was before I had the bad spout recently and he said to go back up and he didn't want me to risk it

[JanCarol]

Hey Conducked - 

 

8 hours ago, conducked said:

If I do decide to go back upto 50mg how would you recommend doing so?

I don't!

This is your only drug, and while you've had some quick dose changes in the past year, you can escape it.

Your symptoms sound (depressingly) normal for the speed of, and the straight-line of, your taper.  I can't separate out whether the new bottle started your symptoms - or some backlog symptoms hanging over you were ready to strike.  There may be more of these.

It is my fond hope that you get up to 5 mg and - that helps.  It's the right direction.  You can live with it.  And stay there for 6 months.  

The things that doctors don't consider is the time factor.  Each adjustment to taper takes 3 weeks.  We offer 1 week buffer.  So, we drop once a month (like you did).  But if you drop too much, those 3 weeks start to stack, and then you've got 6, 9, 18, 36 weeks of symptoms just waiting for a stressor.  That's why we make tiny adjustments.

See how you feel in a month at 5 mg. 

Let's work on those Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms .   I do daily walks, tai chi, karate, meditation, qigong, and have some great communities, good company, and the support of a loving and loved husband.  Count your blessings, and they will be the stepping stones out of the swamp.

NOW for the amazing news.  Go to ABC-iView, meet our founder and some of our heroes of withdrawal and recovery.  THIS IS A TOOL you can use with your doctor!

 

It's interesting, I was watching the video I sent you with Mark Horowitz, and then, accidentally - OMG, there he is, on Four Corners!  So we went to iView to get the whole program, and saw Alto, too!  It's not perfect (you'll see complaints on the thread) but it opens doors.  AND it explains the parabolic vs. straight line taper (by Mark Horowitz) VERY clearly.  

Let's get ALL our doctors to watch this, hey?

I hope you see the sun today (gorgeous, I'm about to head out into the park for tai chi)
 

[JanCarol]

ps.  bulk billing.  Not really compatible with compound prescriptions.  They are kind of a "boutique" item.

[conducked]

8 hours ago, JanCarol said:

Hey Conducked - 

 

I don't!

This is your only drug, and while you've had some quick dose changes in the past year, you can escape it.

Your symptoms sound (depressingly) normal for the speed of, and the straight-line of, your taper.  I can't separate out whether the new bottle started your symptoms - or some backlog symptoms hanging over you were ready to strike.  There may be more of these.

It is my fond hope that you get up to 5 mg and - that helps.  It's the right direction.  You can live with it.  And stay there for 6 months.  

The things that doctors don't consider is the time factor.  Each adjustment to taper takes 3 weeks.  We offer 1 week buffer.  So, we drop once a month (like you did).  But if you drop too much, those 3 weeks start to stack, and then you've got 6, 9, 18, 36 weeks of symptoms just waiting for a stressor.  That's why we make tiny adjustments.

See how you feel in a month at 5 mg. 

Let's work on those Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms .   I do daily walks, tai chi, karate, meditation, qigong, and have some great communities, good company, and the support of a loving and loved husband.  Count your blessings, and they will be the stepping stones out of the swamp.

NOW for the amazing news.  Go to ABC-iView, meet our founder and some of our heroes of withdrawal and recovery.  THIS IS A TOOL you can use with your doctor!

 

It's interesting, I was watching the video I sent you with Mark Horowitz, and then, accidentally - OMG, there he is, on Four Corners!  So we went to iView to get the whole program, and saw Alto, too!  It's not perfect (you'll see complaints on the thread) but it opens doors.  AND it explains the parabolic vs. straight line taper (by Mark Horowitz) VERY clearly.  

Let's get ALL our doctors to watch this, hey?

I hope you see the sun today (gorgeous, I'm about to head out into the park for tai chi)
 

 

All right sounds good I'm going to go back upto 5mg from the 2.5mg and try and stabilize out there, I'll keep in touch here and in pm also

Great to know that the symptoms I've been experiencing have been caused and aren't me relapsing which I feel like I am also but I know the tablets withdrawals can be relapse

I noticed you said you hope I get upto 5mg do you recommend to go to say 3.5 mg then go upto 5 after that instead of doing a jump from 2.5 to 5 mg because I was just going to jump from the 2.5mg to the 5mg 

 

If I start getting bad and suicidal again thought I may have to push back up in strength even more as I don't want my little ones living without me

 

Unfortunately the doctors don't factor withdrawals into much and it's really sad, i tried to prepare myself mentally and physically for any withdrawals I got by doing a lot of research but doctors tell you there wont be much withdrawals or that they are manageable which isn't the case
 

I have actually starting working out (doing weights just some days I can't like this week I haven't been able to do much because mentally and physically I'm drained) so once I start feeling good again I'll be doing it again

I've never used abc iview I'll have to jump on google and see if i can watch on there

Yes the days have been good, we've had some loss recently and had a lot of family at our house but I'm looking at the upside of everything!

[conducked]

8 hours ago, JanCarol said:

ps.  bulk billing.  Not really compatible with compound prescriptions.  They are kind of a "boutique" item.

 

since reading that, that makes a lot of sense silly me ( I do apologize it was 4am and I was having fried brain)

[JanCarol]

Hey conducked - 

 

2 hours ago, conducked said:

I noticed you said you hope I get upto 5mg do you recommend to go to say 3.5 mg then go up to 5 after that instead of doing a jump from 2.5 to 5 mg because I was just going to jump from the 2.5mg to the 5mg 

To be fair to you, I actually picked 5 mg as a compromise.   I think Shep suggested 3.0 mg.  What we're looking for is a small adjustment that improves your situation.  Honestly, the smaller the adjustment, the better.  I was really frightened of the thought of you going back up to 50 mg!  These drugs are strong, and they occupy the most receptors at the lower doses (Mark Horowitz's chart).  If you are suffering, we're trying to get you to a place of balance, with as little upset as possible.

 

There is a very real chance that 3.5 mg, just that 1.0 mg updose, will be enough to hold you, to move you to a better place.

So if you're comfortable with that, you can try it for 3 days.  Maybe you will hold there.  Maybe for 6 months.  Or maybe at 3 days, you'll think it's just enough better, and hold a little longer.  Maybe after a week, you will think to yourself, that you want to go up to 5.  It is up to you to pay attention.  We keep daily logs of symptoms:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1779-rate-symptoms-daily-to-track-patterns-and-progress/ 

 

By logging, you get a more objective view of what is happening.  This is, sadly, a science experiment of N=1, and truly, only you know how you feel.

Holding is a tool, to help you see what is going to work, because the time factor is so important.  We want to fix it right now but it doesn't work that way.  By holding, you give the adjustment a chance to take place, and you can see better if it's right.   Bouncing doses up and down on a daily or weekly basis is only going to destabilise you, keep shaking the apple cart.  So make a decision, and stick with it for at least 3 days, preferably a week.

I hope this helps, I've PM'd you more stuff about local practitioners. 

AND I hope you get some sleep tonight!

[conducked]

58 minutes ago, JanCarol said:

Hey conducked - 

 

To be fair to you, I actually picked 5 mg as a compromise.   I think Shep suggested 3.0 mg.  What we're looking for is a small adjustment that improves your situation.  Honestly, the smaller the adjustment, the better.  I was really frightened of the thought of you going back up to 50 mg!  These drugs are strong, and they occupy the most receptors at the lower doses (Mark Horowitz's chart).  If you are suffering, we're trying to get you to a place of balance, with as little upset as possible.

 

There is a very real chance that 3.5 mg, just that 1.0 mg updose, will be enough to hold you, to move you to a better place.

So if you're comfortable with that, you can try it for 3 days.  Maybe you will hold there.  Maybe for 6 months.  Or maybe at 3 days, you'll think it's just enough better, and hold a little longer.  Maybe after a week, you will think to yourself, that you want to go up to 5.  It is up to you to pay attention.  We keep daily logs of symptoms:

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1779-rate-symptoms-daily-to-track-patterns-and-progress/ 

 

By logging, you get a more objective view of what is happening.  This is, sadly, a science experiment of N=1, and truly, only you know how you feel.

Holding is a tool, to help you see what is going to work, because the time factor is so important.  We want to fix it right now but it doesn't work that way.  By holding, you give the adjustment a chance to take place, and you can see better if it's right.   Bouncing doses up and down on a daily or weekly basis is only going to destabilise you, keep shaking the apple cart.  So make a decision, and stick with it for at least 3 days, preferably a week.

I hope this helps, I've PM'd you more stuff about local practitioners. 

AND I hope you get some sleep tonight!

 

Ah yeah I getchya, I just got a script for 5mg but I might call back and get one for 3.5mg or i might even just keep it at the 2.5mg to see how i go and have the 5 mg handy just incase I can't do it, at the moment I'm not looking at dropping further so I wont be going up and down just up to a certain point which I guess we need to find the sweat spot, currently I feel okay but I feel like a ticking time bomb

I have bad memory issues so when I wake up everything I think of today generally goes away I think I may be adhd still need to get diagnosed but I do need to get a diary going
 

[JanCarol]

Hey conducked - 

 

You've got the right idea!

 

I don't think you need an ADHD diag-nonsense.  The only purpose of diag-nonsense is to put you in a category for drugs.  Seriously.

 

If you have attention problems, then you can work on them.  But right now - in the thick of this - be kind to yourself.  I say "Woops!" a lot.  It may be harder for younger people, but in my crowd (50's-80's) we laugh and forgive.

 

That's why we log, when it's fresh - because - cog-fog is a common (common, common, common!) symptom of withdrawal.

 

I hope you see the Sun today!

[conducked]

7 hours ago, JanCarol said:

Hey conducked - 

 

You've got the right idea!

 

I don't think you need an ADHD diag-nonsense.  The only purpose of diag-nonsense is to put you in a category for drugs.  Seriously.

 

If you have attention problems, then you can work on them.  But right now - in the thick of this - be kind to yourself.  I say "Woops!" a lot.  It may be harder for younger people, but in my crowd (50's-80's) we laugh and forgive.

 

That's why we log, when it's fresh - because - cog-fog is a common (common, common, common!) symptom of withdrawal.

 

I hope you see the Sun today!

 

Yeah that's the thing I wont be taking anything if I did get diagnosed the main reason why I wanted to stop the meds I'm on is I'm sick of taking meds

I also agree with being kind to yourself also others, accidents happen!

 

yeah I just get so bad I forget to buy a book LOL

 

Cheers you too

[Fifree]

Hi @conducked . I just wanted to drop by and say hi as I am also in Brisbane. I'm so glad you are listening to the mods and not going back up to 50mg! You need to be patient when you increase your dose though. It's going to take a while for it to wash on through your system and make you feel better - like weeks to months, rather than hours to days.

 

Unfortunately most drs just don't understand how bad WD can be. They haven't been through it and they're not taught about It at med school. They certainly aren't taught about it by drug companies who are in the business of sales rather than the business of health.

 

Please be patient with your reinstatement. Listen to the mods and be prepared to hold, hold, hold for as long as needed to get stable again.

 

Drs are not gods. They're just people like us, (mostly) doing the best they can. They get stuff wrong. I'm not mad at them about it. I get stuff wrong all the time.

 

BUT we need to educate ourselves and take control of our tapers ourselves. SA has generously provided so much information for us to do this. You just have to keep your dr onside to keep you supplied with enough of the drug to manage the taper. 

 

You've got this.

 

 

[conducked]

On 9/8/2023 at 9:07 AM, Fifree said:

Hi @conducked . I just wanted to drop by and say hi as I am also in Brisbane. I'm so glad you are listening to the mods and not going back up to 50mg! You need to be patient when you increase your dose though. It's going to take a while for it to wash on through your system and make you feel better - like weeks to months, rather than hours to days.

 

Unfortunately most drs just don't understand how bad WD can be. They haven't been through it and they're not taught about It at med school. They certainly aren't taught about it by drug companies who are in the business of sales rather than the business of health.

 

Please be patient with your reinstatement. Listen to the mods and be prepared to hold, hold, hold for as long as needed to get stable again.

 

Drs are not gods. They're just people like us, (mostly) doing the best they can. They get stuff wrong. I'm not mad at them about it. I get stuff wrong all the time.

 

BUT we need to educate ourselves and take control of our tapers ourselves. SA has generously provided so much information for us to do this. You just have to keep your dr onside to keep you supplied with enough of the drug to manage the taper. 

 

You've got this.

 

 

 

hey sorry for the late reply I never realized you made a comment! 

Yeah I've decided to stick at 2.5mg for a few months to get stable i've now been on 2.5mg for 2 months (took the last tablet today) and starting a new batch tomorrow I am a bit paranoid about doing a new batch because when i started the last batch i felt real funny a few days after and it got me thinking if something was off with the batch so I'm going to be a bit paranoid the next few days

how long does everyone recommend to stay at 2.5mg for?

I have to agree with you they are only told a select few things which all the big companies say to say

[conducked]

I'm going to start to taper again since I've stayed at 2.5mg since September, and I have been feeling great since my body got use to 2.5mg over the last 7 months! When I last posted I felt so bad I was about to go back up in strength and even contemplated check myself into hospital because I felt a little loopy / unsure on how I was feeling it was terrible, but it's been a long time now and my body has gone to it's new normal for now, I believe it is time to start tapering again this time 10% no more, though the thing is it is scaring me a little to taper tho because of how I last felt and have been with the withdrawals but I know I can't wait around forever! 

I start taking 2.25mg in the next 36 hours!