Administrator Altostrata Posted September 10, 2012 Administrator Share Posted September 10, 2012 I'd try a 5% cut on a Friday so I can self-monitor over the weekend. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted September 20, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 20, 2012 I'd try a 5% cut on a Friday so I can self-monitor over the weekend. I'm going to do just that a week from this Friday. This weekend we have a reception for our daughter who was married in CO last June. I do wish I could look more forward to such things. This worries me as I read that people can become antisocial during withdrawal. These drugs have CAUSED me to become apathetic, num and antisocial already. To an extreme. It is hard to look forward to making that feeling worse before better. I wouldn't even try it except that I have no choice. There's no future this way. I just pray there is one tapering. I honestly think that exercise will be key for me. My muscle tone is next to nil . I'll have to get off my butt to feel better. Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted September 22, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 22, 2012 A weird sensation. I am back to teaching in a new situation and am liking it. But then I will "quit" in Janyary so it isn't too stressful But yesterday something weird happened. There was a "pep fest" at the end of the day. Homecoming yadayada. It was funny. I laughed my ass off at the stupid HS crap. And when I got home my whole body was "buzzing". Like vibrating. All of my kidsa are home... one from Seattle with grandchild, one from traveling for a " year " after getting married last June , the other living at home part time will get married next summer. All for an informal family wedding " reception" tomorrow. Anyway so yeah, lots of things going on and so I came home to a house full of people and normally I would retreat to my room ( I did eventually) but decided this time instead to just lay on the couch in the midst of my family's voices laughing , playing cribbage, .... and my body vibrating at a frequency I'd never felt before. The weird part.... I half way dosed and began to think of my Father who was a troubled man and not knowing how to father. I felt his presence. It was calming and I felt like as if this was how he felt sometimes. He just kind of was there and I envisioned him wrapping his arms around me and holding me in a way that he never did but I know tha I wanted ( and want). I though about you people here who are brave and let these types of things happen, live in the moment , experience it and not run away from it ( like retreat to the bedroom and curl into a ball) and eventually the buzzing went away. I listened to my (adult) kids having fun together and I wanted to be with them so I got up, and didn't really join them but engaged in conversation and managed to laugh at their antics. I know. Just regular stuff that "regular" people would just take in stride ...and look forward to. The weekend will have its challenges for me. I will become overwhelmed and retreat. The "event" itself ( tomorrow from 3pm - 9pm at a local park and food catered for all 50 some people so easy) ) I am dreading but will go, put on a good face for the fam. , act like I'm "normal" like them & come home and feel like "phew! One more obligation to NOT be myself!" over with. Thoughts? Comments? Experience this "buzzing" ? Am I more "normal" than I think? Maybe I am just getting old. Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Administrator Karma Posted September 23, 2012 Administrator Share Posted September 23, 2012 Hi areyouthere - it sounds like the excitement of the pep fest and family may have been stimulating to you and you may have experienced a bit of adrenalin, which explains the buzzing sensation. It sounds like you handled it well ... it is normal for people experiencing the symptoms we are to have a desire to go into "cave" mode where we want to escape stimulating experiences and avoid people. Eventually, you will be able to take part in events like this and experience more enjoyment with them. I think this is all normal and it was a great sign that you did engage with your family. How are you feeling now? Love and light, Karma 2007 @ 375 mg Effexor - 11/29/2011 - 43.75 mg Effexor (regular) & .625 mg Xanax 200 mg Gabapentin 2/27/21 - 194.5 mg, 5/28/21 - 183 mg, 8/2/21 - 170 mg, 11/28/21 - 150 mg, 4/19/22 - 122 mg; 8//7/22 - 100 mg; 12/17 - 75mg; 8/17 - 45 mg; 10/16 40 mg Xanax taper: 3/11/12 - 0.9375 mg, 3/25/12 - 0.875 mg, 4/6/12 - 0.8125 mg, 4/18/12 - 0.75 ; 10/16 40mg; 1/16 0.6875 mg; at some point 0.625 mg Effexor taper: 1/29/12 - 40.625 mg, 4/29/12 - 39.875 mg, 5/11/12 - Switched to liquid Effexor, 5/25/12 - 38 mg, 7/6/12 - 35 mg, 8/17/12 - 32 mg, 9/14/12 - 30 mg, 10/19/12 - 28 mg, 11/9/12 - 26 mg, 11/30/12 - 24 mg, 01/14/13 - 22 mg. 02/25/13 - 20.8 mg, 03/18/13 - 19.2 mg, 4/15/13 - 17.6 mg, 8/10/13 - 16.4 mg, 9/7/13 - 15.2 mg, 10/19/13 - 14 mg, 1/15/14 - 13.2 mg, 3/1/2014 - 12.6 mg, 5/4/14 - 12 mg, 8/1/14 - 11.4 mg, 8/29/14 - 10.8 mg; 10/14/14 - 10.2 mg; 12/15/14 - 10 mg, 1/11/15 - 9.5 mg, 2/8/15 - 9 mg, 3/21/15 - 8.5 mg, 5/1/15 - 8 mg, 6/9/15 - 7.5 mg, 7/8/15 - 7 mg, 8/22/15 - 6.5 mg, 10/4/15 - 6 mg; 1/1/16 - 5.6 mg; 2/6/16 - 5.2 mg; 4/9 - 4.8 mg; 7/7 4.5 mg; 10/7 4.25 mg; 11/4 4.0 mg; 11/25 3.8 mg; 4/24 3.6 mg; 5/27 3.4 mg; 7/8 3.2 mg ... 10/18 2.8 mg; 1/18 2.6 mg; 4/7 2.4 mg; 5/26 2.15mg; 8/18 1.85 mg; 10/7 1.7 mg; 12/1 1.45 mg; 3/2 1.2 mg; 5/4 0.90 mg; 6/1 0.80 mg; 6/22 0.65 mg; 08/03 0.50 mg, 08/10 0.45 mg, 10/05 0.325 mg, 11/23 0.2 mg, 12/14 0.15 mg, 12/21 0.125 mg, 02/28 0.03125 mg, 2/15 0.015625 mg, 2/29/20 0.00 mg - OFF Effexor I am not a medical professional - this is not medical advice. My suggestions are based on personal experience, reading, observation and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers Link to comment
starlitegirlx Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I've had the buzzing/vibration sensations throughout my whole body. During heavy withdrawal episodes they crippled me. Over time they decreased. I had to use klonopin the diminish them which was fine in my case since my regular minimum dose was always 1mg at night though I've had to use much more than that during this whole withdrawal process. I would say it's a withdrawal symptom given I've had it as well and only during withdrawal minus having it in my legs before that (which was from taking the AD), but this type was different. It was like total body vibration or buzzing. I'd even describe it as a light electrical current with no charge though on intense WD days I would say super charged and super painful. I hope it passes quickly and you feel stable where you are at soon. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted September 24, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 24, 2012 Everything went fine. One thing I have never admitted before here is that I used to drink alcohol sometimes. I think part of the reason I didn't return to "normal" this summer until early August is because I was drinking in July. I just plane quit in August and haven't had a drink since. I thought about it today..if I would have a beer. I mean ice cold beer ...like beer on ICE? No I didn't have one. I am serious about reducing ( tapering) my drug cocktail to the least theraputic dose and I know the alcohol has no business in the mix. Reception a huge success... I even enjoyed it. YAY!! Thanks for the encouragement, words of wisdom, thoughts etc. They are important to me. Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted September 29, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 29, 2012 Things ar getting a bit more complex at school but I have to keep it all in perspective as I was tired this week via virtue of my kids all being home , their spouses, sig. others and one grandchild last weekend. So basically two solid weeks of stressors with some down time but not much. I plan on taking it a bit easy this weekend. I am beginning my second tiny taper this weekend to see how it goes. My goal at this moment is to get down to 15 mg lexapro at whatever pace works, leaving all other doses the same ...xanax 4 mg/day, wellbutrin 300 mg/ day. Since my final goal with my relationship with these drugs is to find the least theraputic dose that allows me the best quality of life at each stage of my life I have a couple of questions for you. What kind of success have people had with tapering one drug, stabilizing at a reduced dosage ( ie lexapro at 15mg) of it and then tapering another? I am specifically suggesting beginning a taper from the xanax once I have had success holding at 15 mg. of the lex . for at least a couple of months. Thoughts? Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus peggy Posted September 29, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 29, 2012 I think Karma is doing little cuts of Xanax as well as antidepressants - just don't do them together. It is generally advised to taper the antidepressant first, but i see you are on quite a hefty dose of Xanax as well.. I don't have any personal experience of benzo's or any other drug, but there are people doing multiple drug tapers, but i think not at the same time - that is alternating and stabilising in between. Maybe try a 5 % cut off your Xanax when you feel stable and see how you go...but you probably take you Xanax in divided doses, so you will need to spread the reduction over each dose, rather than taking .2mg off one dose - does that make sense? Started in 2000 - On 150mg most of the time, (but up to 225mg at highest dose for 6 months in the beginning)Reduced off easily first time - but got depressed (not too much anxiety) 6 months laterBack on effexor for another 9 months.Reduced off again with no immediate w/d - suddenly got depressed and anxious ++ again 3 or 4 months later.Back on effexor - this time for 3 yearsReduced off over a month - 6 weeks later terrible anxiety - back on.Rinse and repeat 4 more times - each time the period before the anxiety comes back got shorter and shorterJan - July 2012 75mg down to 37.5mg;, 8/3/12 - 35mg. 8/25/12 - 32mg. 9/11- 28mg, 10/2 - 25mg, 10/29 - 22mg, 11/19 - 19.8mg; 12/11 - 17m,1/1- 15.5mg; 1/22 -14mg, 2/7 14.9mg, 2/18 - 17.8mg - crashed big time: back to 75mg where i sat for 2 years.... 4th March 2015 - 67.5mg; 31st March - 60mg; 24th April - 53mg; 13th May - 48mg; 26th May - 45mg; 9th June - 41mg; 1 July- 37.5mg; 20 July - 34mg; 11 August - 31mg; 1st Sept - 28mg; 1st Dec - 25.8mg; 28th Dec - 23.2mg; 23rd Jan-21.9mg; Feb 7th- 21mg; March 1st - 20.1mg, March 30th - 18mg Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted September 29, 2012 Administrator Share Posted September 29, 2012 Given the buzzing, areyouthere, you might be going a little fast off the Lexapro now. I like your quality-of-life goal. Why are you taking Wellbutrin? Are you taking Xanax to help you sleep? Do you have side effects from Xanax? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted September 30, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 30, 2012 Why are you taking Wellbutrin? Are you taking Xanax to help you sleep? Do you have side effects from Xanax? Long story. I've posted it here somewhere. xanax.... anxiety but I need to get off of it. Wellbutrin...originally for sexual disfunction then upped from 150 to 300 mg 2 years ago when I was lethargic. DO 'YA THINK???? I went in to suggest lowering the dosage of xanax., left with a bump in wellbutrin. WHAT? No. I'm not angry. Just tapering Lexapro. yes Alto... I'm watching for WD from this second tiny taper. Today was day #1. Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted September 30, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 30, 2012 yes Alto... I'm watching for WD from this second tiny taper. Today was day #1. Bad news. Night sweats last night . Didn't feel like getting out of bed this morning. Pretty edgy. I'm not going to take a chance at these symptoms dissipating in even the near future with the job situation. Back up today to my first, just 9 % cut started on August 13th. I could beat myself up but know better ( thanks to all of you here) at least I know I can make a cut , my body will experience WD, I know some of the tell tale symptoms from it and when ready can move forward with my plan. That feels like success not failure. EDIT... I also woke up at 4 am ( that was with the night sweat) and felt anxious and afraid I wouldn't be able to fall back asleep. Feeling anxious after waking up from a night sweat is new. But because of life's circumstance and knowing I will need my sleep while working it makes sense. I did fall back asleep once I decided that there would be NO CUT FOR YOU for awhile !!!! Thanks Alto for recommending trying this second cut on a weekend. Best advice ever. Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Administrator Karma Posted September 30, 2012 Administrator Share Posted September 30, 2012 Hi areyouthere I'm sorry the cut didn't work out, but I'm glad you recognized the symptoms and made a new decision based on new information (symptoms) to remain with your previous dose. Peggy is correct ... earlier this year I was stable on a dose of 40.625 mg Effexor and worked on cutting my Xanax dose. I only take Xanax at night for sleep. I cut by 0.0625 mg every 2 weeks and went from 1 mg down to .75 mg. The first cut left me with some symptoms for that day, but after that I actually felt better with each successive cut. That success made me feel like I could get off of the Xanax so then I went back to my Effexor taper using a compounded liquid. I think I may need Xanax as I taper off of Effexor - maybe not, but I'd like to have the option, so I'm finishing up the Effexor first and then will work on the Xanax. Hope that helps. Karma 2007 @ 375 mg Effexor - 11/29/2011 - 43.75 mg Effexor (regular) & .625 mg Xanax 200 mg Gabapentin 2/27/21 - 194.5 mg, 5/28/21 - 183 mg, 8/2/21 - 170 mg, 11/28/21 - 150 mg, 4/19/22 - 122 mg; 8//7/22 - 100 mg; 12/17 - 75mg; 8/17 - 45 mg; 10/16 40 mg Xanax taper: 3/11/12 - 0.9375 mg, 3/25/12 - 0.875 mg, 4/6/12 - 0.8125 mg, 4/18/12 - 0.75 ; 10/16 40mg; 1/16 0.6875 mg; at some point 0.625 mg Effexor taper: 1/29/12 - 40.625 mg, 4/29/12 - 39.875 mg, 5/11/12 - Switched to liquid Effexor, 5/25/12 - 38 mg, 7/6/12 - 35 mg, 8/17/12 - 32 mg, 9/14/12 - 30 mg, 10/19/12 - 28 mg, 11/9/12 - 26 mg, 11/30/12 - 24 mg, 01/14/13 - 22 mg. 02/25/13 - 20.8 mg, 03/18/13 - 19.2 mg, 4/15/13 - 17.6 mg, 8/10/13 - 16.4 mg, 9/7/13 - 15.2 mg, 10/19/13 - 14 mg, 1/15/14 - 13.2 mg, 3/1/2014 - 12.6 mg, 5/4/14 - 12 mg, 8/1/14 - 11.4 mg, 8/29/14 - 10.8 mg; 10/14/14 - 10.2 mg; 12/15/14 - 10 mg, 1/11/15 - 9.5 mg, 2/8/15 - 9 mg, 3/21/15 - 8.5 mg, 5/1/15 - 8 mg, 6/9/15 - 7.5 mg, 7/8/15 - 7 mg, 8/22/15 - 6.5 mg, 10/4/15 - 6 mg; 1/1/16 - 5.6 mg; 2/6/16 - 5.2 mg; 4/9 - 4.8 mg; 7/7 4.5 mg; 10/7 4.25 mg; 11/4 4.0 mg; 11/25 3.8 mg; 4/24 3.6 mg; 5/27 3.4 mg; 7/8 3.2 mg ... 10/18 2.8 mg; 1/18 2.6 mg; 4/7 2.4 mg; 5/26 2.15mg; 8/18 1.85 mg; 10/7 1.7 mg; 12/1 1.45 mg; 3/2 1.2 mg; 5/4 0.90 mg; 6/1 0.80 mg; 6/22 0.65 mg; 08/03 0.50 mg, 08/10 0.45 mg, 10/05 0.325 mg, 11/23 0.2 mg, 12/14 0.15 mg, 12/21 0.125 mg, 02/28 0.03125 mg, 2/15 0.015625 mg, 2/29/20 0.00 mg - OFF Effexor I am not a medical professional - this is not medical advice. My suggestions are based on personal experience, reading, observation and anecdotal information posted by other sufferers Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted September 30, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted September 30, 2012 Hi areyouthere I'm sorry the cut didn't work out, but I'm glad you recognized the symptoms and made a new decision based on new information (symptoms) to remain with your previous dose. Peggy is correct ... earlier this year I was stable on a dose of 40.625 mg Effexor and worked on cutting my Xanax dose. I only take Xanax at night for sleep. I cut by 0.0625 mg every 2 weeks and went from 1 mg down to .75 mg. The first cut left me with some symptoms for that day, but after that I actually felt better with each successive cut. That success made me feel like I could get off of the Xanax so then I went back to my Effexor taper using a compounded liquid. I think I may need Xanax as I taper off of Effexor - maybe not, but I'd like to have the option, so I'm finishing up the Effexor first and then will work on the Xanax. Hope that helps. Karma It helps a lot actually. Thanks for the info Karma and Peggy for mentioning it. Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted September 30, 2012 Administrator Share Posted September 30, 2012 You can do this. You're in control of your tapering. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted October 12, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 12, 2012 I did decide to make a very tiny taper. It's been going pretty well. I haven't had any night sweats, am sleeping all night. The WD I notice are muscle "tweaks" or twinges or jerks whatever you want to call them ..."flinches" is a good description I guess. I notice it mostly when I am in bed at night before I fall asleep or early in the morning. In my hands, my legs, calves, face sometimes. I get the "hand shakes" sometimes in the afternoon. And I have had overall body/ bone penetrating pain but I think that is mostly exhaustion. Last Saturday was an exceptionally good day. Sunday sucked and I didn't over do anything Sat. Just felt happy. Too much to ask for I guess. My knees killed last night and wondered why but this morning when I showered I noticed I had a couple of bruises on them. Then it dawned on me that I was on my knees on the floor ( linoleum) most of the day yesterday helping students measure distances with meter sticks. So that explains the knee pain anyway. I took tomorrow off. Parent conferences after school on Monday from 4:00- 7:30 pm. Those are killer days/ nights but it will be my very last set of conferences in the evening for the rest of my life. That will keep me going. I hope to make one more tiny taper before Christmas. Then hold. Wait and see and make a decision. Do I continue a taper to 15 mg lexapro, hold and start to taper the 4 mg xanax or do I continue to taper the lex to 10 mg ( I plan on staying at 10 indefinitely) and then the xanax... decisions . Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted October 13, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 13, 2012 Near ******* miss here. My husband and I have had appointment after appointment since my transfer to a new school last spring. And I don't mean doctor's appointments although one was with "my" psychologist whom I've seen off and on for 10 years. Appts. with union reps, financial planner, insurance brokers, you name it we've been doing our homework on me getting the heck out of education. I really don't know which has harmed me more the work or the meds. It's like Barb's chicken or egg... which made me sick first.. my job or the meds for my job? I am not a typist... hunt and peck ( only girls who were going to be secretaries took typing in HS in the 70s. I was NEVER going to be a man's secretary!) so I'll try to explain in a hurry. I was home "sick" today ..a mental health day and using part of it to meet a new, 1 hr. contractual requirement to contact parents outside of school hours. Screw that. I called parents alright but It was on MY terms. I am so fricking tired of doing what I am SUPPOSED to do I could puke. I have felt tied, bound, shackled , stoned and spat upon by the general attitude of the public against teachers while all the same time doing the hardest job on the planet and doing it WELL because it is THE RIGHT THING TO DO . Seriously... I so want to sooooooooo go to school and act like an idiot rather than an almighty perfect teacher person!!!! OOOOOOOOOOOOOO So while I was home I also called the teacher retirement pension fund to talk to a counselor just to double check to make sure that I understood correctly that if I submitted my resignation 12/ 22 & I retired I could still "purchase service credit" through March 1st thereby bumping up my take home pension check by $50/ month. He said "No. you have to be on some sort of LEAVE to do that". WHAT? ...... WHAT?!!! Ok fine. When my husband and I were down there there was so much banter about LTD , this and that numbers, blah bah blah including me signing something in case I become incapacitated they could talk to my husband regarding my pension yada yada. we left the office with a misunderstanding. Yes that is bad but that is not what I am pissed about. After THAT meeting end of Sept. I made an appt. to see our union rep who HAPPENS TO BE ON THE PENSION FUND'S BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND JUST ANNOUNCED SHE WANTS TO RUN FOR AN ELECTED POSITION TO BE THE TREASURER OF OUR PENSION FUNDS AT THE STATE LEVEL and she knowing full well that I had to be on leave to "buy back" that service credit encouraged me to follow PROTOCOL and submit my resignation 60 days in advance of retirement. I HAD THE LETTER TYPED AND READY TO GO NEXT WEEK!!!!! If I had submitted it ( I am NOT) I would have by default eliminated any possibility of buying 43 days of teaching service credit reducing our anticipated pension check by $50/ month FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!!!! Do you really think she had my best interest in mind? Do you really think she was looking out for ME???!!! DO you think I got my money's worth of 20 years of union dues ???? Well b God I will. I called her and was FURIOUS!!!!! Yes she recalled our discussion, yes she recalled me mentioning wanting to buy service time. Yes she recalled that she and I had discussed the possibility of her negotiating with the district to pay for part of that buy back but she didn't think to tell me all of that was contingent upon me being on a LEAVE rather than resigning. She outright encouraged me to submit my RESIGNATION. I called her and was pretty angry. I managed to calm down. I cried. I sobbed. SHE claimed misunderstanding ME... a possibilty but very, very remote. Uhhhh yeah. I think she's trying to manage the fricking funds starting like..... yesterday. Speaking of appointments. I have the appt. with the psychiatrist in about two weeks. I think I'll act as crazy with him as I did her. I'm going to get a ******* note that says I'm "TOO SICK TO RETURN TO WORK" and have him date it 12/20 , go on health leave and my REP is going to "see what she can do" to get the district to pay the measly $3000 for service credit that means the difference between $50/ month for the rest of my life. I'll repeat....Uhhhh yeah. I think she's trying to manage the fricking funds starting like..... yesterday. Well. I sure had a profitable mental health day today. GOOD NIGHT! :angry: :angry: Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted October 13, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 13, 2012 note to self Settle down. It will work out. my response to a different post "Huh. I never thought of this. I too had a terrible reaction the the generic lexapro I took for 14 days last April or so. I reinstated the brand name but perhaps this is a more logical explanation as to why my summer was so much different than pervious ones. Thinking. " Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I feel for you with the politics you're trying to navigate through this. A few friends are teachers. I have tremendous respect! I couldn't do it even when feeling healthy. To me, teaching seems like being *on stage* all day and then going home to write and learn the scene for the next day. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted October 13, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 13, 2012 I feel for you with the politics you're trying to navigate through this. A few friends are teachers. I have tremendous respect! I couldn't do it even when feeling healthy. To me, teaching seems like being *on stage* all day and then going home to write and learn the scene for the next day. Teaching struck me the exact same way... Ohhhh, no, I'm going to be watched ALL the time! As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment
Barbarannamated Posted October 13, 2012 Share Posted October 13, 2012 I feel for you with the politics you're trying to navigate through this. A few friends are teachers. I have tremendous respect! I couldn't do it even when feeling healthy. To me, teaching seems like being *on stage* all day and then going home to write and learn the scene for the next day. Teaching struck me the exact same way... Ohhhh, no, I'm going to be watched ALL the time! And by a TOUGH audience! LOL! Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc). Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted October 14, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 14, 2012 Feeling beter about the situation today.Allowing myself to feel used and abused is an attitude and I am working hard on looking at it from a different point of view. By fluke I have appts. with my GP. my Psychiatrist and my psychologist all within a two week period. The GP appt. is routine and was scheduled back in July. My Psyc. is hard to get in to see... that appt. made back in July. The psychologist I was actually going to cancel but will now keep considering my anger/ feelings etc. The fact is I'll get as much of a pension as I can possibly get. The only thing that could get in my way now is if my doctor would refuse to give me a "note" that says I shouldn't be working. I can't see that happening . I wouldn't give it a 0% chance but close to it as he has agreed to give me a note in 2 other occasions when I was close to melting down. Even though my union rep was compliant and somewhat understanding of my depression/ anxiety I think part of this equation is that she really doesn't get it. But that isn't new folks is it? Thanks for the support. This place is great. Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted October 14, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 14, 2012 Good advice on when one is tapering too fast: Hey BM1, A slow taper should result in virtually no symptoms. An acceptable withdrawal from Effexor would mean that you might feel a night of night sweats a day or two after a decrement, you might feel irritable or slightly blue a day or so after a decrement, but you should be able to stabilize to a point where you feel "normal." You might have a night or two of disrupted sleep. In general if you have some mild symptoms one to three days after a decrement and then it improves, you are probably about right. Irrational fears would be a symptom of withdrawal. GI symptoms would be a symptom of withdrawal. Excessive anxiety would be a symptom of withdrawal. Brain zaps are a definite sign you've gone too far. Shakes or a sense of dread are indications you've gone too far. When you've gone too far you need to up-dose or hold until you feel normal for a number of weeks. Hope that helps. Karma Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted October 18, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 18, 2012 I am so tired. I have come home the last two days , eaten some supper, slept for almost 2 hours, gotten up hurting all over, watched some TV , gone back to bed and slept all night. Nice life I have here. Blah. This is not new but to be happening in October is unbelievable. 10 years ago feeling like this would happen in May. There is no doubt that the drugs have taken their toll, but I am getting older. It seems so unfair to me right now. I am in a great job situation. I was in a lousy, toxic one for the last ten years without knowing it. This school I am in is fantastic. I mean the way it's run, how the admin. FINALLY is beginning to understand what "staff development" really means. I just wish this would have happened to me a long time ago because now I have no energy and really no desire to "start over" and build up my skills/ successes again. I just want out and I just want to taper and I just want to feel free. From work and drugs. I made a small < 8% cut ( lex) starting today. I have a 4 day break here. I am hoping I don't have to back up a little again but won't hesitate to. I'll know soon. A night sweat will be the first sign. I think I'll sleep with an ICE pack. kidding. Anyone have any ideas about my QID question I posted on the benzo only thread? 10 views, no responses. ps the exhaustion I'm pretty sure is the mental energy I am expending at the new job. Not positive though. I've made such a tiny cut in lex. ( 24 mg ( by weight ) of a 25 mg tablet so far) that I don't think it could make that much of a difference. pps. My memory really sucks. Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted October 18, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 18, 2012 I am beginning to feel paranoid. Few respond. I suppose I shouldn't have divulged I am in the public sector and that my struggle includes not only "the man" in psychiatry but "the man" in a government job which means legally people may view any advice or association with me and my particular "situation" is like playing with fire. Well here is what I have to say to that " Fu@k that". Yes. I'm pretty self absorbed and self centered at the moment. Have not much else to do but lurk on the internet. My list of things I have been browsing is as long as the list of possible WD symptoms. Things like: Redbone Coonhounds Herbs... how to grow and store. Essential oils and diffusers MOB dresses ( another wedding next summer) Jack Purcell tennis shoes ( LOVE them) Bought that oral suspension stuff... will not open until I need it. Bookmarking community groups..yoga, food coop, volunteer opportunities etc etc petfiner.com...... adopting dogs etsy.... so many things to look at so many clever people Soaps.. Dr. Bonners (?) peppermint is sooooooo fantastic! Lush fragrances.... my daughter has some.. "karma" smells good. "dirty" NO Deal chicken.com and groupon.com All very challenging and demanding thinking skills ( ) but a good diversion. No night sweat last night...... 3 more nights to test and then the cut will be good to go with .... Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 18, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 18, 2012 Please don't feel paranoid! The benzo forum is small. I see there are responses to your question. How are you feeling since your Lexapro cut? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted October 18, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 18, 2012 Please don't feel paranoid! The benzo forum is small. I see there are responses to your question. How are you feeling since your Lexapro cut? Yes, I am very relieved. Because of what has happened to me at work I think someone is out to get me. Kinda funny. Kinda not.. ANYWAY. Yesterday morning was the first really well measured ( PRECISE) tapered dose by weight : 24 mg of lex from a whole tablet that weighs 25 mg. I'd been messing around with nail files before. It feels great to finally have just one variable to deal with. I have 4 days off here so will know if this rate is tolerable. Thanks for asking. The next time I post here it will be about the lex. taper. Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted October 27, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 27, 2012 Well I must say. Spreading out my doses of xanax has made a whole lot of difference in how I all around feel. It was a week ago yesterday that I started. Today I woke up early so took my first dose at 5 which meant my second dose was at 11:00 & I nearly forgot it!! This is unusual as the mid mornings have been my toughest. I think that from now on I will take that first dose when the alarm goes off at 5 am. making the 2nd dose at 11 am hoping that the morning will be more smooth that way. The lex drop has been stable . I won't attempt another drop until finding and then maintaining a strict routine of 1 mg every 6 hrs. with the xanax. I will be looking for advice to the contrary of tapering the lex next and instead attempting a drop of the xanax since it seems to be the drug that has been making me feel the worst. But I will listen to advice. I will report back periodically to journal the xanax dosing and results..... for now all I can say is that I had a SUPER week and I was only called a bit@h once! Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus dalsaan Posted October 27, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 27, 2012 Really glad you seem to have worked through the Xanax issues and had a great week. Good for you. Well done Dalsaan Please note - I am not a medical practitioner and I do not give medical advice. I offer an opinion based on my own experiences, reading and discussion with others.On Effexor for 2 months at the start of 2005. Had extreme insomnia as an adverse reaction. Changed to mirtazapine. Have been trying to get off since mid 2008 with numerous failures including CTs and slow (but not slow enough tapers)Have slow tapered at 10 per cent or less for years. I have liquid mirtazapine made at a compounding chemist. Was on 1.6 ml as at 19 March 2014. Dropped to 1.5 ml 7 June 2014. Dropped to 1.4 in about September. Dropped to 1.3 on 20 December 2014. Dropped to 1.2 in mid Jan 2015. Dropped to 1 ml in late Feb 2015. I think my old medication had run out of puff so I tried 1ml when I got the new stuff and it seems to be going ok. Sleep has been good over the last week (as of 13/3/15). Dropped to 1/2 ml 14/11/15 Fatigue still there as are memory and cognition problems. Sleep is patchy but liveable compared to what it has been in the past. DRUG FREE - as at 1st May 2017 >My intro post is here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2250-dalsaan Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 27, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 27, 2012 What you might do is very carefully go down to half your Xanax dosage, hoping this alleviates the side effects, stabilize, and then taper off Lexapro. The remaining Xanax might cushion Lexapro withdrawal. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted October 27, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 27, 2012 What you might do is very carefully go down to half your Xanax dosage, hoping this alleviates the side effects, stabilize, and then taper off Lexapro. The remaining Xanax might cushion Lexapro withdrawal. Areyou.. I was going to suggest same. Even if you only can come off at 5% a month (who knows.. maybe you can go faster), you will be making significant cuts in the Xanax. 4 mgs is a high dose, and I can't help but think you will feel better on half of that. As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted October 27, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 27, 2012 What you might do is very carefully go down to half your Xanax dosage, hoping this alleviates the side effects, stabilize, and then taper off Lexapro. The remaining Xanax might cushion Lexapro withdrawal. Areyou.. I was going to suggest same. Even if you only can come off at 5% a month (who knows.. maybe you can go faster), you will be making significant cuts in the Xanax. 4 mgs is a high dose, and I can't help but think you will feel better on half of that. Thanks to both of you. As usual I have to take this problem and pick it up like a rubric's cube and look at it from ever single damn angle. So I propose a philosophical question and wonder if you have considered such things. First I will sitethis which isn't what got me to thinking because I've thought of it before, but WHAT IF..... the xanax is definitely making me feel like crap BUT it is the lexapro that is causing the most damage physiologically? In that case, perhaps getting the dosage of xanax down to a more manageable level in terms of both feeling better and simpler 4 x's per day dosing ( see attached sample taper schedule) and then go back to tapering the lexapro? Anybody "get" the brain? See.... I upped my dose a of lex from 10 to 20 mg MYSELF ( duh) a little over a year ago. Do you think the higher the dosage the more "damage" I am doing? Since I have been on the higher dosage for such a short time maybe, once I DO reduce the xanax and stabilize at .75mg 4 x's per day It would be wise to tackle the lex.??? Just a thought. The xanax definitely messes with me. I am home today so felt great until about 2 pm ( 5 am w mg/ 11am 1 mg) .... then mood crashed ( a bit) ... headed to the bedroom, then 5 pm rolled around I took my dose and now an hour and a half later feel pretty good again. For now of course I am concentrating on 1 mg every 6 hrs and am proud and so happy and so relieved to be able to feel better. Just looking for any thoughts specifically on whether or not it would be a "wise idea" to tackle the lex after a gentle drop to 3 mg. xanax..... Well whatever... I can't upload an excel or word doc. XANAX SAMPLE>>>>> mg mg 4 1 tablets 1 1 1 3.6 0.9 suspension; dosed with 1 ml pipette 0.9 0.9 0.9 3.34 0.81 suspension; dosed with 1 ml pipette 0.81 0.81 0.81 3. mg Go to .25 tablets. 3x.25 3x.25 3x.25 3x.25 STAY HERE AND TAPER MORE LEX??? Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted October 28, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 28, 2012 So I propose a philosophical question and wonder if you have considered such things. First I will sitethis which isn't what got me to thinking because I've thought of it before, but WHAT IF..... the xanax is definitely making me feel like crap BUT it is the lexapro that is causing the most damage physiologically? In that case, perhaps getting the dosage of xanax down to a more manageable level in terms of both feeling better and simpler 4 x's per day dosing ( see attached sample taper schedule) and then go back to tapering the lexapro?Hi areyou... both benzodiazepines and ADs cause brain damage. Taper whichever is making you feel more symptomatic, and it sounds like this would be the xanax. You are taking a higher relative dose of xanax than lexapro and I can only suggest what I'd do myself. The fact you were having such miserable interdose withdrawal symptoms would support a decision to taper Xanax as well. I'm not resopnding to your taper schedules as yet.. FIRST you need to decide what you are going to taper! Philosophical Falafel, turn that mind of yours off for a bit. As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus areyouthere Posted October 28, 2012 Author Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 28, 2012 Philosophical Falafel, turn that mind of yours off for a bit. "when we expect things, we somewhat are trying to predict the future... the best way to predict the future is to take steps in the present moment and the moments that follow " I will continue to cement 1 mg 4 x per day at 6 hr. increments. When life's circumstances and stability/comfort presents itself I will attempt to drop my xanax dose by 10%, spreading that drop between all 4 doses. I will need reassurance that my technique for switching to a liquid taper is appropriate when the time comes. My proposal is to use xanax powder with the ora plus as the suspension vehicle to proceed. 1 ml syringes for delivery of the doses. I will concentrate on keeping notes ( journaling at home) on how the QID dosing is making me feel and nothing beyond that. Fall 1995 xanax, zoloft. switched to Serzone 1996- spring 2003serzone/ xanax/ lightbox. b]Fall 2003- Fall 2004? Lexapro 10 mg. Light box /4 mg. xanax.[/b] 2004 - Fall of 2009 10 mg Lex, 150 mg Wellbutrin XL % 4 mg xanax November 2009- Sept. 2011 10 mg lex., 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax [/b Sept.2012- July 2012 20 mg Lex 300 Well. XL, 4 mg Xanax My mantra " go slow & with the flow " 3/2/13.. Began equal dosing 5 Xs /day xanax, while simultaneously incorporating a 2.5 % drop ( from 3.5 mg/day to 3.4 mg/day) 4/6/13 dropped from 300 mg. Wellbutrin XL to 150 mg. Difficult but DONE! Down to 3.3 mg xanax/ day / 6/10/13 3 mg xanax/day; 7/15/2013 2.88mg xanax/day. 10/ 1/2013...... 2.5 mg xanax… ( switched to tablets again) WOO HOO!!!!!! Holding here… cont. with Lexapro. 1/ 2/2014.. tapered to 18mg ( by weight) of a 26 mg ( by weight) pill of 20 mg tab. lexapro. goal is 13mg (by weight OR 10 mg by ingredient content) and STOPPED. Feeling very down with unbalanced, unpredictable WD symptoms. 1/2/2014- ??? Taking a brain-healing break from tapering anything after actively tapering something for 1.5 years. So… daily doses as of 2/2/2014: 18 mg by weight Lex, 150 mg Well. XL, 2.5 mg xanax, down from 26 mg by weight Lex., 300 mg well. XL, 4 mg xanax in August, 2012. I'll take it. 5/8/14 started equivalent dose liquid./ tabs. 5/13/14 1.5 % cut. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted October 28, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 28, 2012 "when we expect things, we somewhat are trying to predict the future... the best way to predict the future is to take steps in the present moment and the moments that follow " I'm glad to find out why you wanted so much to taper the AD first. Yup, where tapering is concerned, it's best to predict the future one step at a time. Catch you on the benzo thread for the rest. As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment
Administrator Altostrata Posted October 28, 2012 Administrator Share Posted October 28, 2012 20mg Lexapro is a very high dose, equivalent to 60mg Celexa or Paxil. What are the symptoms you think are due to the Xanax? How's your blood pressure? This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment
Moderator Emeritus Skyler Posted October 28, 2012 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted October 28, 2012 20mg Lexapro is a very high dose, equivalent to 60mg Celexa or Paxil. What are the symptoms you think are due to the Xanax? How's your blood pressure? I'm most relieved to have your input on the possible AD influences. YES! As always, LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! A proud supporter of the 10% (or slower) rule. Requip - 3/16 ZERO Total time on 25 years. Lyrica: 8/15 ZERO Total time on 7 or 8 yrs.BENZO FREE 10/13 (started tapering 7/10) Total time on 25 years. Read my intro thread here, and check the about me section. "No matter how cynical you get, it's almost impossible to keep up." Lily Tomlin Link to comment
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