Lamalein: polydrugged - lorazepam, Pregabalin, quetiapine and mirtazapine

[Lamalein]

Hi @Altostrata,

 

that.... or maybe also the fact, that I really tapering just one med without these withdrawals in the background from 2021 - when the docs forced me into cold turkey of many meds in 2021. I am  so often so angry about the docs and the hospitals. I can be lucky or it's a wonder, that I can now function in a nearly normal way.

 

I read also something about the kindling effect - because of that, my prognosis was very bad. Now it seems that every reduction is getting easier and easier. But yes, we will see.

 

When I started lorazepam, I took also 0,5 mg in the hospital at 8 h in the morning and 0,5mg lorazepam at aound 17h.

Now I take 0,5 mg at 9.30 h in the morning and 0,5mg at 20 h in the evening. Since four days I split the Quetiapine with 150 mg from the 0,5 mg lorazepam and 75 mg pregabaline.

So I take now 5 times a day meds. And I have the feeling, that I can deal better now with the sideeffects of the 150 mg Quetiapine, because I have enough time until I eat something and maybe it's also even more easier to reduce the quetiapine, because Lorazepam can augment the sedative effect of the quetiapine.

 

9.30 h in the morning: 75 mg pregabaline, 0,5 mg lorazepam

 

14.00h afternoon: 75 mg Pregabaline

 

18.30 h evening: 150 mg retard Quetiapine

 

20.00 h: 75 mg Pregabaline, 0,5 mg Lorazepam

 

round about 24.00h night: 30 mg Mirtazapine

 

best wishes,

Lamalein

 

[Altostrata]

25 minutes ago, Lamalein said:

because Lorazepam can augment the sedative effect of the quetiapine.

 

Yes, the effect of lorazepam can mask symptoms arising from reduction of quetiapine.

 

Still, please take care to reduce quetiapine gradually by amounts that continue to get smaller. If you reduce 150mg quetiapine by 25mg, that would be a 16.67% reduction. If you reduce 125mg by 25mg, that would be a 20% reduction. Your rate of reduction keeps getting steeper, while what we want is a constant rate of reduction. Highly recommend you think of a way to reduce 150mg by 12.5mg, 137.5mg by 12.5mg, and 125mg by 12.5mg, keeping the next 3 reductions within 10%.

[Lamalein]

@Altostrata

Hi,

Ok, and how? Water tiration? I am not really good in it. 😕 Or can I also split one 25 mg tablet unretarded Quetiapine in two pieces? That would be the smartest option for me.

 

What do you think about the next reduction switching to mirtazapine and reducing it in three reduction steps until 22,5 mg?

Maybe my liver gets better, my sleep (less weired dreams in the morning time) and also my weight gain stops and maybe gets turned back?

 

Best wishes, Lamalein

 

[Altostrata]

On 8/27/2022 at 5:05 PM, Altostrata said:

See Tips for tapering off quetiapine (Seroquel)

 

On 11/26/2022 at 9:56 AM, Lamalein said:

What do you think about the next reduction switching to mirtazapine and reducing it in three reduction steps until 22,5 mg?

 

Are you talking about reducing mirtazapine after you go off quetiapine? Tips for tapering off mirtazapine (Remeron)

 

[Lamalein]

@Altostrata

 

No, I was thinking about stopping now with the reduction of Quetiapine, to go on with Mirtazapine. I have such big problems with the weight...even if I changed my nutrition, I am not loosing weight. 😞 And I know that I gained weight only because of the mirtazapine.

 

Greetings,

Lamalein

[Lamalein]

Oh, and what I wanted to tell you about the last Quetiapine reduction from 175 mg to 150mg. For 8 days I hade low symptoms... the most recognized one from my side was the agitation inside my body. And some depressive thoughts. But I could go on with my normal life. It was not easy, but absolutely doable. Wo withdrawal I had from 21st until 28th of november.

 

The crazy thing in my withdrawal is, that I have symptoms and they can be tought and it was everytime the same. I got bed and the next day it's gone. I cannot explain it, but it was everytime like that.

 

Greetings,

Lamalein

 

[Altostrata]

@Lamalein, as explained before, we counsel people in much more gradual tapering so as to minimize the risk of withdrawal symptoms. If you don't want to do that, you can go off your drugs any way you wish.

 

You're responsible for your own taper, if you get withdrawal symptoms, you may have to cope with them. We do not have any miracle remedies for withdrawal.

[Lamalein]

Hi,

 

sorry that I made you angry.

I realized: I am not really used to the concept, that the aim is, that you don't have any withdrawal symptoms at all by using the the 10% tapering.

 

Before August I was only member of the german forum for tapering ADs & so on. It's pretty much normal in Germany, that you are tapering and that you have symptoms. Many people suffering so badly, unable to work, every day is suffering - and still going on with tapering off.

 

Many people were multiple times in a hospital - getting 10, 20 meds tested on them and after some weeks, when the health insurance doesn't want to pay any longer, they kick you out. Same in my case. You come home, completely in withdrawal, staying there for 2 weeks and trying to find another hospital and when you get there, the whole problem is starting again. They don't read the reports from the last hospital, changing meds on and on - and actually it gets worse and worse. From 2020 till 2021 I was in 8 hospitals - they tried 15 meds on me... sometimes I wish I could sue them... but it's not very successful here.

 

I will try the 10 percent with the quetiapine - if I get one day to the situation, that I don't have any kind of symptoms while reducing, I don't know. I hope so and pray for it.

 

Got my blood test results today... liver are higher than normal again 😞 although I have changed my nutrition, although I go to the gym since 8 weeks, although I have reduced. 

 

🤷‍♀️

 

Bye, Lamalein

 

 

[Altostrata]

We do not recommend that people continue tapering when they have withdrawal symptoms, that only makes the withdrawal symptoms worse.

[Lamalein]

Hi, I had to start reducing (although I was in withdrawal) at the beginning of 2022, because of my bad blood results (liver and leucopenia) and the weight gain. If I wouldn't have done it, don't know where I would stand today. Even in summer I thought, I would never stabalize again in my life. But it changed. Also because of some changes in my life. Study again, do sports, nutrition, believing, singing, meeting friends, travelling.

 

Now I reduced 300mg Quetiapine to 150 mg and Mirtazapine from 45 mg to 30 mg in one year. I wouldnt recommend this way, it was so aweful in between. But I had to. And I will go on - I still have the health issues, so I cannot take my time and wait some months on the acutal dose until I reduce again. Time is health. Due to the health I should even reduce much faster - also my doc stresses me, but I do it my way.

 

But yes, never did it in the way of reducing only so much, that I don't feel symptoms at all. I will try it out. And when I found the right reduction percentage for me, I can reduce the time between the reductions - thats what I read in this forum. Never thought about this option.

 

Thanx, Lamalein

 

[Lamalein]

Hello to you all,

 

since my last post in december I could reduce Quetiapine from 150 mg to 112,5mg with the help of a individual recipe (pills à 12,5 mg unretard) in the pharmacy.

The pills made by the pharmacy took away a lot of insecurity from me. And that minimized my fear of withdrawal symptoms. Right now, I am at a status, where I am between the reductions pretty stable. Then I have no anxiety, no depression, no restlessness.

 

I trust in your concept, of waiting until you are stable and then reducing maximum 10 percent of the actual dosis for around 4 weeks. When this works fine, no withdrawal syptoms are showing up, I can reduce a little bit faster. As you can see, the last two steps, I was reducing every 2,5 weeks. I think I can make it until April, that I am down to 100 mg. Then I make a pause, after that I go on with the reduction of the quetiapine - I want to try to get out of the quetiapine latest the beginning of 2024 - because I want to reduce Lorazepam in 2024. What do you think? Is that a good plan? For the lorazepam I want to try it also with individual recipe and if thats not working, I switch to Diazepam (Diazepam is not cool for me - I got everytime severe depressions, but there is no other possibility when the individual recipe is not working)

 

I am big fan now of the individual recipe and I want to use that for my reductions as much as I can.

 

What me stabilized too, is the weight lifting training since november. I do this two until three times a week, also for weight control, because the mirtazapin has given me 25 kilo extra weight. Only weight training, no cardio, because cardio training frightens me. I have changed my nutrition completely (no added sugar, full grain bread/noodles, raw vegetables, less salt, no caffeine, good proteines, no cow milk). My whole life I didn't eat soo healthy. The full grain made it possible, that my constipation has gone. I take every 4 days 5000 IE of vitamine D vaginal, because I had a cronic HPV infection with high risk for cervical cancer. I got 2 weeks ago my results, that the pre-cancer has gone!! I will go on with that vitamine D because I realize also, that it helps a lot for my mood and immun systems problems like lip herpes, leucopenia, ulcer in my mouth - these things are gone.

And since October I found back to my believe in god. In my darkest moments, when I feel lonely, at least I have god.

 

Best wishes,

Lamalein