Sabathil: Recovery from Clopixol (Zuclopenthixol) Injections

[Altostrata]

No, we do not treat adverse effects of a drug regimen here. All we provide is tapering information.

[Sabathil]

My dose was kept at 200mg, but I am now able to have it every 3 weeks instead of 2.

 

Less drug in my body over the life of a CTO has to be a good thing, even if it wasn’t the reduction I’d hoped for.

 

according to Wikipedia the elimination half-life for IM injection Clopixol is 19 days. So because I am now being injected every 21 days, what should this mean? Perhaps I am going to start eliminating the drug from my body? Which should mean less drug affected if I understand correctly? That’s gotta be a good thing, right?

 

[Sabathil]

Or perhaps I’ll start to experience withdrawal effects from not being over medicated and should look out for withdrawals.

 

problem I see happening is that the treating team do not recognise withdrawals, so I’ll be stuck at the new duration of every 3 weeks, unless I request to change back to 2 weekly and ask again for an actual milligram reduction. But herein lies the paradox… I have no idea how to explain the risks of withdrawal, I already failed at asking for a milligram reduction to 175mg every 2 weeks.

 

my head hurts..

[Sabathil]

@Altostratabecause this is not a proper reduction and is going to instead make me prone to withdrawals by increasing duration, I will call the team of idiots tomorrow and try to educate them about withdrawals and proper tapering thus I’ll stay on 200mg every 2 weeks

[Altostrata]

Did you feel withdrawal symptoms when you were getting the injection every 3 weeks? 

 

1 hour ago, Sabathil said:

@Altostratabecause this is not a proper reduction and is going to instead make me prone to withdrawals by increasing duration, I will call the team of idiots tomorrow and try to educate them about withdrawals and proper tapering thus I’ll stay on 200mg every 2 weeks

 

This is probably the best idea. The way to taper Clopixol is to progressively lower the amount of the injection.

[Sabathil]

@Altostrata, no, I haven’t yet started on the 3 weekly cycle. Sorry I didn’t specify. They just approved the change today.

 

I suspect they have to have at least some knowledge about drug withdrawal effects? And because I have been “going so well”, then reducing a dose (as they call it) in this way is unsafe.. surely they are not so sinister to want me to experience withdrawals.

 

Would you suggest I inform them of the 19-day elimination half life as evidence reducing amount is a safer reduction? I feel like they aren’t going to be reasonable with me.

[Altostrata]

I would not assume they know anything about withdrawal effects.

 

43 minutes ago, Sabathil said:

Would you suggest I inform them of the 19-day elimination half life as evidence reducing amount is a safer reduction?

 

You might calmly discuss this with them, and suggest they gradually lower your injection amount as an alternative.

[Sabathil]

I'm now on 200mg every 3 weeks, today was the end of my first week at the new duration and I don't think I experienced any withdrawals, maybe just slightly less brain fog, I'm not sure, I'm still on the drug so it's hard for me to gauge how I'm doing because it's such horrible stuff. Would not recommend it to anyone. It was just a lot easier for me to accept what they offered than do it the right way and lower the amount, I don't get a say.

 

Will update my signature when at computer next.

[Sabathil]

Can antipsychotic drugs such as clopixol cause psychosis when stopped? All I want is my health back so I must stop the meds but at the same time I'm terrified because I've been on drugs since 2015 and every attempt to stop them had lead to a hospital admission

 

Good news is my case manager said they won't renew the order in october

[Altostrata]

6 hours ago, Sabathil said:

Can antipsychotic drugs such as clopixol cause psychosis when stopped?

 

Yes, you need to gradually taper all of them to avoid psychosis as a withdrawal symptom.

[Sabathil]

@Altostratado you believe schizophrenia exists? For me I was taking illegal drugs in 2015 and put on ability injections. Never tapered them properly, and became psychotic. The cycle continued up till today, but this time I will taper. It's been 8 years. If I follow your advice (when I can -- ie free from CTO), is it possible I could actually recover?

 

PS the 3 weekly injections I started on early June I had some homicidal thoughts, but have been eating bad diet and really not doing anything helpful to aid my recovery. I think it's a withdrawal though, but I'm non violent and just recognise them as negative external thoughts, not my own.

 

Are there any other resources you might be able to recommend I start reading now? Regards to "schizophrenia" recovery?

 

Would you advise me to get "professional" help before I begin my taper or should a GP and your advise be sufficient?

[Altostrata]

On 7/6/2023 at 1:13 PM, Sabathil said:

For me I was taking illegal drugs in 2015 and put on ability injections. Never tapered them properly, and became psychotic.

 

This is not schizophrenia.

 

However, whether you have schizophrenia or not, tapering an antipsychotic too fast can cause psychosis-like symptoms.

 

Suggest you look at https://willhall.net

[Sabathil]

Hi @Altostrata,

my compulsory treatment order ends early October and I’m switching to pills the day it does. 
im currently taking 200ml injections every 3 weeks, but the vial says there’s only 144mg of clopixol per 200ml vial. Does this mean I am on the equivalent of 6.85mg tablets per day? (Ie 144mg divided by 21 days)? I haven’t had a reduction in a while, so I’d like to start on 5mg tablets when the order ends, and continue tapering once stabilised at that dose of pill.

 

thanks for the link. 
- Sabathil

[Altostrata]

See Dose Equivalents for Antidepressants and Second-Generation Antipsychotics

 

and ask your pharmacist.

[Sabathil]

Thankyou!

Pharmacist informed me to take 10mg tablets, this will be my starting dose and I plan to reduce by 10% of previous dose, every 3 weeks 😁

[Altostrata]

Please stabilize on the tablets first.

[Sabathil]

Morning from Australia, @Altostrata hope you’re doing well!

 

I’ve been stable on 10mg tablets for around 4 weeks, and feeling confident (mostly eager) to reduce dose.

 

I’m compounding to 7.5mg, so a 25% reduction but will stay with this dose for about 2 or 3 months, this is the rate I was reducing whilst taking injections and I was well overdue for another reduction even prior to starting on 10mg….and I plan to return to 10%/4-weekly once I’m under 5mg.

 

so far haven’t noticed any difference to switching to tablets, still just heavily drug affected. (Hence the larger drop)

 

I spoke with a psychiatrist which I found here at SA, he diagnosed me with schizophrenia after 5 minutes because I had had “so many admissions, over a long period”. Well yeah, any time I try come off meds I go crazy. He was a decent guy otherwise.

 

I’ve remained abstinent of cannabis for 18 months.

[Altostrata]

 

Which psychiatrist was this?

[Sabathil]

Dr Tennent (Shaun) Tempiyappa.

https://www.conduithealth.com.au/our-team/

 

And I found him on the recommended practitioners post, here at SA.

 

[Altostrata]

Did Dr. Tempiyappa refuse to help you minimize your drugs?

[Sabathil]

No. He did say he can help me with this

 

Just didn't give much hope for future off disability support and made the diagnosis of schizophrenia on the grounds I've had many admissions/been on drugs so long.

[Nocturna]

On 6/20/2023 at 11:21 AM, Sabathil said:

Can antipsychotic drugs such as clopixol cause psychosis when stopped? All I want is my health back so I must stop the meds but at the same time I'm terrified because I've been on drugs since 2015 and every attempt to stop them had lead to a hospital admission

 

Hi Sabathil,

 

From my experience with 7 years on Abilify and 2 attempts to stop it without taper (before finding this forum), 3 months drug-free and I went psychotic again. In the past 4 years I manage to super slowly go down with the dose, slightly up again around Spring (when my condition worsens apparently) and then down again. Looking back, the dose goes lower and I'm using the chance to process the symptoms popping back with alternative means (talk therapy, meditation, reality checks, food additives, sports..) which is good. But the whole thing takes *ages* and you have to be really careful. Also I feel like my waves of being unwell are getting longer and my overall motivation to cope goes down...

 

Anyway, happy to see you're committed to getting better! Definitely stay away from any street drugs. Also, Will Hall's materials have brought a ton of light and hope in my life and struggle to be healthy again!

[Sabathil]

Hiya @Nocturna, and thanks for stopping by to share 🙂

 

Just reading your signature, so you took Abilify tablets even though your diagnosis changed away from the psychosis? I gather it must have been a frightening first episode then.

 

Yeah, my experience with cold turkey abilify also ended poorly, I feel the drug which I now take could be similar (it has a shorter half life), but I'm slightly glad to be on a much smaller dose now. I do feel a little less drugged.

 

That's interesting about your symptoms returning in spring? So it's cyclical? Mine do worsen around Christmas/start of year, which is usually when i stop the meds and treat myself poorly (in terms of healthcare... Christmas pudding and alcohol lol), but I wonder why this is..

 

And yep, I understand it takes a lot of time, but without being forced on injections and treatment orders, I'm much more willing to swallow tablets each day. I've been using SA forum, will hall & also inner compass initiative, the dose rates of 10% every 4 weeks seems consistent.

 

Abilify was a nightmare, but I hope the mini doses you're on is better than prior doses. Hopefully next year you're free!

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

On 10/23/2023 at 8:03 PM, Sabathil said:

Just didn't give much hope for future off disability support and made the diagnosis of schizophrenia on the grounds I've had many admissions/been on drugs so long.

 

Sounds circular. Up to you if you want to chance minimizing your drugs to see what happens.

[Sabathil]

Yes, exactly. Great word lol! Having said that, I did have two other private psychs who said I never had any mental illness and shouldn't have been on drugs..... So yes, I'm definitely keen to reduce.

 

Currently on 7.5mg - no change, it seems any dose is awful. Only minor improvements, so I'm gonna try another reduction to 5mg next month

[Altostrata]

1 hour ago, Sabathil said:

Currently on 7.5mg - no change, it seems any dose is awful. Only minor improvements, so I'm gonna try another reduction to 5mg next month

 

7.5mg of what drug? Reducing from 7.5mg to 5mg is a 33% reduction, not what we would call gradual. Is there a reason you're setting yourself up for failure?

[Sabathil]

Clopixol.

I just heard that 5mg is more functionable, and need to get up out of being bed bound.. being on this drug is terrible

I would then start the 10% reductions after being on 5mg?

[Altostrata]

How long have you been taking 7.5mg clopixol? Please update your signature.

[Sabathil]

Hi,

started 7.5mg on 16 october, daily at night.

 

it's still causing severe nightmares

 

[Altostrata]

You started 7.5mg when the injection faded out? It could be too high a dose for you now. Since it's been only a few weeks, you might try reducing to 5mg, see if that's more tolerable.

[Sabathil]

I started the 5mg on 1 December, 2023 and reduced to 4.5mg (10% reduction) which I started on 1 February 2024.

 

Positives:

My akathisia has eased significantly. My legs are calm and I don't feel too tortured. This improved when I switched away from the injection and has not reappeared since.

 

Negatives:

Neuroleptic drugs cause schizophrenia. I have taken these drugs for 10 years and developed schizophrenia and psychosocial disability. I don't care to study "science" to prove this fact. It is my experience, my evidence is knowing myself and my reason has to therefore be that psychiatry's hidden motive is to degenerate healthy, happy souls.

 

Society will not believe this, fortunately I do not care about that either because I know they value the wrong way of life.

 

I hate using these words to describe my loss. But they are: mind, soul, consciousness. This is what I had pre-psychiatry, and this is what they took. I'm not able to try to improve my self, and am stuck waiting to magically recover over time.

 

Maybe if I tapered properly 9 years ago, I would have been OK and had the mental strength to say NO to the covid vaccine. I think this is my real problem nowadays, but will continue to update my thread with taper as I go.