ShantyO7: Here we go again... ShantyO

[ShantyO7]

Hi everyone! So grateful to have found this group. I hope I am doing this right?? I truly hope I can find the help and healing I need here. I have been on some kind of AD for the last 20 years. The 2 I mostly used was Cymbalta and Fluoxetine. First one I took regularly was Cymbalta due to the 'physical symptoms of depression" mainly nausea. I was on it for maybe 3 years. I have quit taking both of them before with NO WD symptoms at all. Was off all meds and when I was 5 months pg, started having panic attacks again so dr put me back on Fluoxetine. Fast forward a bit and I decided I wanted to go back on Cymbalta, why I have no clue. Was on it 3 months and didn't like how it made me feel so dr. was going to switch me to Wellbutrin. Told me I could just quit Cymbalta and would start Wellburtin without any issues. That was a lie! Immediately, started having withdrawal symptoms. Dr. put me back on Fluoxetine thinking it would help but it did nothing of the sort. Worst 9 months of my life! Nausea was the worst symptom. I know that Point of Return is frowned upon but I feel like they actually helped me. That was back in 2017... ready to get off Fluoxetine so (different dr.) told me to wean down and I should be fine. Went from 20mg to 5mg over the course of 5-6 months. Everything went fine so I thought I was in the clear. Felt pretty good the first week, then symptoms would pop up here and there. Nocturnal panic attacks got progressively worse, started having insomnia, then all of sudden the constant nausea and anxiety. Since Point of Return is no longer, I tried implementing what I could from what helped me then but the help is limited. I am on day 62 and it's been an entire month of feeling awful. Dr. is dismissive and doesn't think it's really withdrawals so she isn't much help. Tried to get me to take Xanax but I refused. Prescribed other meds to try to help with the symptoms but nothing really helps and some of the meds I tried just make me feel worse. Feel like I'm alone in this. I am just hoping and praying that it will not be as long lived as last time since I tapered and am not taking any other medications that could interfere. I know everyone is different and all that, but just wish I knew how long this hell will last! I think I can handle everything else, it's just this unrelenting nausea that gets me. Anyway, any insight or advice into my situation would be helpful! Thanks!

[Emonda]

Welcome @ShantyO7

Your story is all too familiar, I'm afraid.

 

This site recommends people taper very slowly: Why taper by 10% of my dosage? The reductions get smaller and smaller every month.

 

You had a very rapid taper (20mg to 5mg) late last year, followed up with a CT at the end of Jan.

 

When you stop ADs CT or with a very rapid taper like you have, WD symptoms are the likely outcome: Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF). Can you relate to the items on this list?

 

It's astounding, but not surprising that your doctor dismisses WD symptoms.

 

17 hours ago, ShantyO7 said:

Tried to get me to take Xanax but I refused

 

Good decision.

 

17 hours ago, ShantyO7 said:

Prescribed other meds to try to help with the symptoms but nothing really helps and some of the meds I tried just make me feel worse.

 

Sadly, I've never heard of a pill that successfully resolves WD symptoms. Inevitably, these magic pills cause other problems.

 

17 hours ago, ShantyO7 said:

Feel like I'm alone in this.

 

Well, the good news is that this forum is full of people like you, so you're not alone. We are all at different stages of recovery.

 

17 hours ago, ShantyO7 said:

I know everyone is different and all that, but just wish I knew how long this hell will last!

 

Yep, we all want to know that...but as you know, there is no answer. We are all different.

 

A few handy links:

Windows and waves pattern of stabilization

 

Emotional Spirals

 

Non-drug coping strategies

 

Melatonin for sleep

 

Have a good read of these two links:

 

About Reinstating and Stabilizing to Reduce Withdrawal Symptoms

 

Kindling

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but two that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. Add one at a time and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Avoid alcohol. 

 

This is your own Introduction topic.  Each member has only ONE Introduction topic.  Your own Introduction topic is the best place to ask questions and the place to journal your progress.  This keeps your history in one place and means you do not have to repeat your story. 

 

Once again, welcome to S.A.

 

Emonda

 

 

 

 

 

[ShantyO7]

So because I went from 5mg to 0mg, that's considered cold turkey??

[littlebird]

7 minutes ago, ShantyO7 said:

So because I went from 5mg to 0mg, that's considered cold turkey??

Yeah, that's a pretty big drop and definitely in cold turkey territory. How's it hitting you so far? Sometimes things can seem ok for a few days and then symptoms strike. 

 

On 4/1/2024 at 8:24 AM, ShantyO7 said:

Dr. is dismissive and doesn't think it's really withdrawals so she isn't much help. Tried to get me to take Xanax but I refused.

Might be worth trying out some new doctors, getting second opinions and all that. I got lucky and found one who is really helpful and understands I stay more stable when I listen to my body and go slowly with changes. 20mg to 5mg in less than half a year is pretty fast for a nervous system to adapt to (and sadly all too many psychiatrists don't understand WD). 

 

Welcome to the site! Glad you're figuring this out.

[KenA]

Hi @ShantyO7

This is from an article in our Tapering Section which describes Exit Dosing

 

Theoretical Exit Dose

The Theoretical Exit Dose is the dose to aim for before making the jump to “0”.  Some people think that a person should just taper as far as possible and then jump to “0”. However, one of the most frequently questions I get is “when do I make the jump?”. People need a target so they can make plans and chart progress.

This is where the Theoretical Exit Dose comes into play. First off it is not a hard and fast number, but rather a point in the taper where it is most likely a person can make the jump to “0” and experience a minimum of WD symptoms.

 

It is defined by Horowitz & Taylor, 2021 and Horowitz, et al.2021, as 1% SERT receptor occupancy which usually works out to be about 1mg. In my experience this is still much too large a dose for most people to make a smooth transition to zero.  If the transition does not go smoothly then reinstatement, stabilization and continued tapering are required.  Which can greatly lengthen an otherwise smooth taper.

 

I prefer to use the formula (median prescribed dose X 0.000625 = Theoretical Exit dose). Most medications are prescribed over a range of doses. For example, paxil comes in 20, 30, and 40 milligram doses. The median dose would be 30mg, which would be used in the formula above. Because we calculate using the median prescribed dosage this formula takes into account the differences in strength between medications and can be used with any of the different psych medications we see.

Again, this is a theoretical dose, something to aim for but not necessary to hit. The actual jump point is determined by how your body is reacting to your reductions.

[ShantyO7]

Sorry, not sure how to respond to each item individually... Wow, I didn't realize that I needed to taper even more, no thanks to my dr! Symptoms started on and off about a week after my last does, then about 3-4 weeks ago, it's been non stop. The nausea is constant like morning sickness and I get waves of anxiety/nervousness throughout the day. Sometime feel short of breath. So far those are my only real symptoms... have had a couple of bad waves and starting to see some windows, however, still feel icky during those windows.

 

I have an appointment with a functional dr in a couple of weeks so hoping she can help some!

 

 

[ShantyO7]

I really do not want to reinstate so just praying I can make it through and my symptoms will start improving soon! How long does the nausea typically last?? I know it's different for everyone but is there like an average?

 

[ShantyO7]

I have had a couple of decent days, only real issue is the incessant queasiness, moderate anxiety and feelings of hopelessness. I have had to sleep in the recliner in the living room for the last week because I just can't get comfortable anywhere.  I think I would feel MUCH better if this queasiness would just go away. My appetite is slowly getting better and I've been hungrier, but having difficulties trying to find more foods I can stomach. I eat the SAME things every day and am scared to try much new for fear it will upset my stomach. I know this is probably what is considered a "window" so I hate the feeling like the bottom could drop out at any moment. As the windows get better, do the waves get better as well? And then each window gets better? Just really hoping that the queasiness goes away SOON! I know everyone is different but is there like an average on how long the queasiness lasts?

[ShantyO7]

Anyone??

[ShantyO7]

Can anyone help me understand windows and waves better... not like tapering stabilization... just plain old withdrawal windows and waves. I am having a hard time figuring it out for myself... I am NEVER symptom free but some days are better than others. But even on my "good" days, I can have a couple hours of increased symptoms. Is there anyone who never really had windows/waves and just gradually improved? With each window/wave, does the next window/wave get better? Like each wave you have is better than the last and each window you have is better than the last? Just trying to make sense of all this which is probably pointless...

[Erimus]

17 hours ago, ShantyO7 said:

Can anyone help me understand windows and waves better... not like tapering stabilization... just plain old withdrawal windows and waves. I am having a hard time figuring it out for myself... I am NEVER symptom free but some days are better than others. But even on my "good" days, I can have a couple hours of increased symptoms. Is there anyone who never really had windows/waves and just gradually improved? With each window/wave, does the next window/wave get better? Like each wave you have is better than the last and each window you have is better than the last? Just trying to make sense of all this which is probably pointless...

In early withdrawal the windows are often still littered with symptoms. As time passes the windows improve, and you eventually reach a point where windows actually consist of being symptom free. It takes a long time to reach this point.

Edited April 8 by Erimus