espartana: Paroxetina - withdrawal symptoms

[espartana]

Hola a todos y gracias por crear este espacio que está siendo mi salvavidas. Sufrí ansiedad desde los 12 años por trauma de abuso sexual, aunque no me lo diagnosticaron hasta a los 18 años cuando ya no pude manejar la ansiedad. Diagnóstico: trastorno de ansiedad generalizada con agorafobia e hipocondría. El tratamiento fue Diazepam y no recuerdo bien si era escitalopram o citalopram... no tengo muchos recuerdos, pero desde los 18 años hasta ahora (tengo 35) he estado tomando diferentes antidepresivos a diario, aunque los ansiolíticos solo de manera muy puntual. Con 23 años me cambiaron a Paroxetina 20mg y rRvotril 0,5mg. La paroxetina me ayudó muchísimo con la ansiedad, tanto que no tuve que tomar ningún rivotril más. Pero a los 25 años quise dejarla y nunca he podido, me ponía muy mal y me decían que eran recaídas por el trauma pero..., ahora sé que no eran recaidas, era síndrome de abstinencia.

 

Me intentaron cambiar primero a brintelix y luego a fluoxetina para que la retirada fuera más sencilla, pero me daba muchísima ansiedad las dos, así que volvía a la Paroxetina. Parece como que mi cabeza solo funcione con esta puñetera pastilla. Hace años que tomo 10mg de paroxetina (no recuerdo cuantos la verdad... pero yo diría que unos 7 años) y voy bien con esa dosis, pero cuando quiero dejarla, me pongo fatal: vértigos, zapeos, mareos, nauseas, diarrea... Tampoco recuerdo cuántas veces he intentado dejarla, pero creo que unas 6 o 7 veces. La forma de bajar que me han ido diciendo los diferentes psiquiatras ha sido que tomara 5mg un mes y luego la dejara, que tomara luego 5mg en días alternos y lo dejara... y nunca ha funcionado.

Esta última vez ya estaba super decidida a dejarlas costara lo que costara pero... spoiler: de nuevo no ha habido éxito. Creía que me iba a morir... la abstinencia más fuerte que nunca. Bajé a 5mg de Paroxetina desde el 20 de febrero hasta el 22 de marzo y estuve bien. Pero cuando el 22 de marzo la dejé... fue cuando empezó todo: llorando sin parar, zapeos al mover los ojos, solo quería dormir, vértigos, mareos, fatal del estómago.... Estuve con la abstinencia desde el 23 de marzo hasta el 29 de marzo esperando a ver si se me pasaba, pero no. Buscando por internet encontré esta página y al fin me veía reflejada en lo que pasaba a mucha gente!! Fue un alivio. Estuve leyendo sobre la reintroducción y el día 29 de marzo empecé a tomar 2,5mg de Paroxetina. Leí que mejor empezar con poco al llevar unos días sin tomar nada...por si mi cuerpo había hecho homeostasis y nada más tomar 2,5mg la mañana del 29 de marzo se me fueron los zapeos, mareos, vértigos... se me reguló la barriga... la verdad es que flipé!!

Pero no estoy 100% bien... tengo muchísimo insomnio, puedo pasarme la noche sin dormir nada, nerviosa, como si sintiera temblor por dentro del cuerpo... algo bastante desagradable. La solución que me dan es tomar un poco (un cuarto) de rivotril 0,5 (clonazepam) pero no sé... quizá sería mejor volver a subir un poquito, a 5mg de Paroxetina? Mil gracias de antemano!

[Emonda]

Hola, @espartana,

Could I ask you to post again in English, please? I don't think any of the moderators speak Spanish. 

 

Gracias, Emonda

[espartana]

Hello!!

I'm going to translate this with a translator, I hope it's understandable, if not, please let me know, thanks!

 

Hello everyone, and thank you for creating this space that has been my lifesaver. I suffered anxiety from the age of 12 due to sexual abuse trauma, although I wasn't diagnosed until I was 18 years old when I could no longer manage the anxiety. Diagnosis: generalized anxiety disorder with agoraphobia and hypochondria. The treatment was Diazepam, and I don't quite remember if it was escitalopram or citalopram... I don't have many memories, but from the age of 18 until now (I'm 35)

 

I have been taking different antidepressants daily, although the anxiolytics only very occasionally. At 23, they switched me to Paroxetine 20mg and Rivotril 0.5mg. Paroxetine helped me a lot with the anxiety, so much so that I didn't have to take any more rivotril. But at 25, I wanted to stop it and never could, it made me very sick, and they told me it was relapses due to the trauma but... now I know they weren't relapses, it was withdrawal syndrome.

 

They first tried to switch me to brintellix and then to fluoxetine to make the withdrawal easier, but both gave me a lot of anxiety, so I went back to Paroxetine.

 

It seems like my head only works with this damn pill. It's been years since I've been taking 10mg of paroxetine (I don't remember how many to be honest... but I would say about 7 years) and I'm doing well with that dose, but when I want to stop it, I get terrible: vertigo, shocks, dizziness, nausea, diarrhea...

 

I also don't remember how many times I've tried to stop it, but I think about 6 or 7 times. The way to reduce it that different psychiatrists have told me was to take 5mg for a month and then stop it, to take 5mg on alternate days and then stop... and it has never worked.

 

This last time I was super determined to stop them no matter what but... spoiler: again, there was no success. I thought I was going to die... the withdrawal was stronger than ever. I went down to 5mg of Paroxetine from February 20th to March 22nd and I was fine. But when I stopped on March 22nd... that's when everything started: crying non-stop, shocks when moving my eyes, just wanted to sleep, vertigo, dizziness, terrible stomach... I was going through withdrawal from March 23rd to March 29th waiting to see if it would pass, but no.

 

Searching the internet I found this page and finally saw myself reflected in what was happening to many people!! It was a relief. I read about reintroduction and on March 29th I started taking 2.5mg of Paroxetine. I read that it's better to start with a little after a few days without taking anything... in case my body had reached homeostasis, and just taking 2.5mg on the morning of March 29th, the shocks, dizziness, vertigo... my stomach regulated... truth is, I was amazed!!

 

But I'm not 100% okay... I have a lot of insomnia, I can spend the night without sleeping at all, nervous, as if I felt a tremor inside my body... something quite unpleasant.

 

The solution they give me is to take a little (a quarter) of rivotril 0.5 (clonazepam) but I don't know... maybe it would be better to go back up a little, to 5mg of Paroxetine?

 

Thank you very much in advance!

Edited April 4 by Emonda
Added line spacing to make it a little easier to read

[Emonda]

Thanks for reposting, @espartana

 

I'm sorry to read of your experience on many levels.

 

10 minutes ago, espartana said:

But at 25, I wanted to stop it and never could, it made me very sick, and they told me it was relapses due to the trauma but... now I know they weren't relapses, it was withdrawal syndrome.

 

It's amazing how many medical professionals call withdrawal symptoms a relapse. I had a similar experience.

 

11 minutes ago, espartana said:

It seems like my head only works with this damn pill.

 

I thought the same too for myself, but following the recommendations on this site (Why taper by 10% of my dosage?), I've made progress I never thought possible...there's no reason why you can't succeed, too.

 

13 minutes ago, espartana said:

I get terrible: vertigo, shocks, dizziness, nausea, diarrhea...

 

13 minutes ago, espartana said:

crying non-stop, shocks when moving my eyes, just wanted to sleep, vertigo, dizziness, terrible stomach

 

Sounds like typical WD symptoms: Daily Checklist of Antidepressant Withdrawal Symptoms (PDF) 

 

14 minutes ago, espartana said:

The way to reduce it that different psychiatrists have told me was to take 5mg for a month and then stop it, to take 5mg on alternate days and then stop... and it has never worked.

 

Not good advice, I'm afraid. So many of us here have been told the same. Never skip doses to taper

 

15 minutes ago, espartana said:

I read about reintroduction and on March 29th I started taking 2.5mg of Paroxetine. I read that it's better to start with a little after a few days without taking anything... in case my body had reached homeostasis, and just taking 2.5mg on the morning of March 29th, the shocks, dizziness, vertigo... my stomach regulated... truth is, I was amazed!!

 

 

Good that you read this section. It sounds as though you have responded well to reinstatement.

 

16 minutes ago, espartana said:

But I'm not 100% okay... I have a lot of insomnia, I can spend the night without sleeping at all, nervous, as if I felt a tremor inside my body... something quite unpleasant.

 

It'll take time and much patience from yourself to stabilise. 

 

So many of us struggle with insomnia: Melatonin for sleep

 

17 minutes ago, espartana said:

The solution they give me is to take a little (a quarter) of rivotril 0.5 (clonazepam) but I don't know..

 

I'd avoid these. You can become dependent on them very quickly and experience WD symptoms when trying to get off them. 

 

17 minutes ago, espartana said:

maybe it would be better to go back up a little, to 5mg of Paroxetine?

 

Why not give yourself more time to stabilise, especially if you've already seen improvement.

 

We don't suggest many supplements, but two that many of us find helpful are magnesium and omega-3 fish oil. Here are the links for info about those. Add one at a time and start with a low dose to see how it affects you. 

Magnesium

 

Omega-3 fatty acids (fish oil)

 

Avoid alcohol. 

 

Don't change the manufacturer of your AD.

 

This is your own Introduction topic.  Each member has only ONE Introduction topic.  Your own Introduction topic is the best place to ask questions and the place to journal your progress.  This keeps your history in one place and means you do not have to repeat your story. 

 

Once again, welcome to S.A.

 

Emonda

[espartana]

Thank you very much for your prompt response @Emonda 
 

1 hour ago, Emonda said:

It's amazing how many medical professionals call withdrawal symptoms a relapse. I had a similar experience.

 

Yes... I am very angry and disappointed with psychiatry, to be honest. I trusted them and now I realize that psychiatrists seem to be mere salespeople for pharmaceutical companies rather than real scientists in the field of health.

 

I do not deny at all that Paroxetine and Diazepam helped me a lot at the time, but no one informed me that this would happen afterwards. In fact, as I am quite "fearful" with medications, I insisted many times and they always told me that SSRIs did not create addiction, that they were only going to fix the chemical imbalance in my brain and then I could stop them. Another lie, this chemical imbalance... it remains a hypothesis without much scientific backing but which psychiatrists defend as a proven truth, and of course, I believed it. Anyway...

 

1 hour ago, Emonda said:

I thought the same too for myself, but following the recommendations on this site (Why taper by 10% of my dosage?), I've made progress I never thought possible...there's no reason why you can't succeed, too.

 

 

Thank you so much for your words... the truth is that this forum has saved me from going back to taking higher doses of Paroxetine like other times when I've wanted to quit and have experienced withdrawal. Thank you for your work. In fact, I don't understand how there's nothing similar in Spain. There's not a single forum that can help you in these cases. You feel "sold out" and alone in this because the family doctors and psychiatrists continue to treat you as if it were a relapse, they don't want to listen to you... And in the end, you doubt yourself because you find support in no one.

 

Fortunately, after much searching on the Internet and switching my search to English, I found the interview they did with Altostrata and I saw the light.

 

1 hour ago, Emonda said:

Good that you read this section. It sounds as though you have responded well to reinstatement.

 

I've actually read almost all the sections, but there are many of them that, having to translate, I don't quite understand well.

 

Yes, it seems that I'm responding well to the reintroduction of 2.5mg of Paroxetine and it's true that it's only been 6 days, but even though I have good moments (windows), by the evening the anxiety comes back along with quite an annoying internal tremor. I suppose it's because I take the Paroxetine in the morning and it's a bit of withdrawal. Do you recommend anything for this? I usually take Rescue Remedy from Bach Flowers and it helps a lot, but if I get strong anxiety, it doesn't take it away completely.

 

Regarding the recommendations to reduce by 10%, I've come to understand that I would first have to stabilize for at least 6 months before lowering, right?

 

1 hour ago, Emonda said:

So many of us struggle with insomnia: Melatonin for sleep

Regarding this, I consulted a phytotherapist and after reviewing my blood tests (I had quite low serotonin and elevated cortisol), he told me to take:

 

- Myo Inositol: 4g dissolved in a glass of water before going to sleep.

- Ashwagandha: 1 capsule in the afternoon/evening (leaving a minimum of 8 hours since the Paroxetine intake).

- Comfort Calm: 1 capsule in the afternoon/evening (leaving a minimum of 8 hours since the Paroxetine intake). This is what 2 capsules contain, which is the recommended daily dose, but he told me to only take 1, so it would be half:

• L-Triptófano 300 mg
• Griffonia brown e.s. 200 mg
• Passiflora e.s. (4% flavonoides 8 mg) 200 mg
• Griffonia white e.s 120 mg
• L-Teanina 80 mg
• Colina Bitartrato 80 mg
• Inositol 60 mg
• Azafrán e.s. (2% safranal 1 mg) 50 mg
• Almidón de arroz
• Agente de carga (celulosa microcristalina)
• Vitamina B3 (nicotinamida) 24 mg
• Magnesio 16 mg
• Vitamina B5 (ácido pantoténico) 6 mg
• Vitamina B2 (riboflavina) 5,32 mg
• Vitamina B6 (piridoxina) 5,04 mg
• Vitamina B1 (tiamina) 4,4 mg
• Zinc 2,03 mg
• Vitamina B9 (L-metilfolato) 160 μg
• Biotina - Vitamina H 50 μg
• Vitamina B12 (cianocobalamina) 5 μg
• Cápsula vegetal (hidroxipropilmetilcelulosa)

 https://www.pamiesvitae.com/es/tienda-online/complementos/pamies-vitae/confort-calm-pv-60-capsulas.html

 

I've been taking these during these days of withdrawal and well... I'm not noticing much. Maybe yes in terms of anxiety in the evening. But they don't help me sleep. Do you know anything about these supplements? And if they could be combined with melatonin for sleep?

 

1 hour ago, Emonda said:

I'd avoid these. You can become dependent on them very quickly and experience WD symptoms when trying to get off them. 

 

Yes... I feel the same way. Although last night I couldn't take it anymore and I took a quarter of Rivotril, which would be 0.125mg, and at least this night I was able to sleep. Otherwise, it becomes impossible for me to work the next day. But I'm going to fight to avoid it as much as possible, because I don't want to have to deal with stopping two medications...

 

1 hour ago, Emonda said:

Why not give yourself more time to stabilise, especially if you've already seen improvement.

 

Alright... I'll wait a little longer with the 2.5mg dose of Paroxetine. I hope everything starts to stabilize. I don't drink alcohol, I don't consume caffeine or other stimulants, and now I'm trying to incorporate physical exercise into my routine, specifically Yoga.

 

Anyway, we keep fighting. A thousand thanks again for all your help, it's invaluable. I work as a psychologist for adolescents, and it hurts my soul when I see them being medicated from such a young age, promising them the same thing they did to me, that it doesn't create dependency...

[Emonda]

16 hours ago, espartana said:

Yes... I am very angry and disappointed with psychiatry, to be honest. I trusted them and now I realize that psychiatrists seem to be mere salespeople for pharmaceutical companies rather than real scientists in the field of health.

 

I hear you, Espartana. I got to the stage where I just accepted the past and moved on. For me, that was a significant step towards recovering from this trauma.

 

16 hours ago, espartana said:

I do not deny at all that Paroxetine and Diazepam helped me a lot at the time, but no one informed me that this would happen afterwards.

 

I concur.

 

16 hours ago, espartana said:

I have good moments (windows), by the evening the anxiety comes back along with quite an annoying internal tremor. I suppose it's because I take the Paroxetine in the morning and it's a bit of withdrawal. 

 

I'd give yourself some more time. I know the feeling of anxiety and terror. Once you stabilise, you'll find things much more manageable. 

 

16 hours ago, espartana said:

Do you recommend anything for this?

 

Time, patience, breathing exercises on Spotify, and I find exercise very helpful...others don't. Magnesium seems to help me, too.

 

16 hours ago, espartana said:

Do you know anything about these supplements? And if they could be combined with melatonin for sleep?

 

The recommendation here is to keep it simple and stick with Magnesium and Omega-3. Start with small doses to see how you respond. The same comment applies to melatonin. 

 

16 hours ago, espartana said:

Although last night I couldn't take it anymore and I took a quarter of Rivotril, which would be 0.125mg, and at least this night I was able to sleep. Otherwise, it becomes impossible for me to work the next day. But I'm going to fight to avoid it as much as possible, because I don't want to have to deal with stopping two medications...

 

I understand. Just be very, very careful. I was fortunate to learn about the risks of sleeping pills on this site before I was dependent. My doctor gave me 50, and they were sent down the toilet once my eyes were opened to the dangers (I'm really wondering how Google Translate will go with some of my phrases 🤷‍♂️).

 

16 hours ago, espartana said:

Alright... I'll wait a little longer with the 2.5mg dose of Paroxetine. I hope everything starts to stabilize. I don't drink alcohol, I don't consume caffeine or other stimulants

 

👍

 

16 hours ago, espartana said:

now I'm trying to incorporate physical exercise into my routine,

 

I've read a few studies that show that regular exercise can be 1.5 times more effective than ADs at combating depression and anxiety. That said, I know some find it aggravates their anxiety. Start slow and see how you go.

 

16 hours ago, espartana said:

I work as a psychologist for adolescents, and it hurts my soul when I see them being medicated from such a young age, promising them the same thing they did to me, that it doesn't create dependency...

 

Yep, I completely agree. It hurts my soul, too. I've recently been very open with my kids about my experience, and I hope they will learn from it.

 

Keep us posted.

[Emonda]

Also, so the moderators can best help you, please complete your drug signature by following these instructions. Adding a signature ensures your drug history appears at the bottom of every post, making it more efficient for those trying to assist. 

 

Thanks, Emonda

[espartana]

Thank you very much for your help @emonda 

 

These days have been much more manageable... it seems that yoga and dancing are helping me sleep better.

 

I still have some dizziness in the afternoon and especially after meals, and my stomach swells up, but otherwise, quite happy because I am seeing improvement... And I haven't had to take more Rivotril either.

 

Your phrases translated with the translator look very funny hahahaha but I understand them.

 

Now I will modify the signature so it is clear.

Thank you!!!

[espartana]

Hello @Emonda and the rest of the community, I’m here to update on my situation...

 

As I mentioned in previous messages, reintroducing a 2.5mg dose of paroxetine relieved me of the withdrawal symptoms I was experiencing: those brain zaps, constant dizziness, vertigo... However, now that I don’t have those symptoms, I’m dealing with a lot of anxiety and even panic attacks, which I hadn’t had for years (with medication, of course).

 

I find myself afraid to leave the house (agoraphobia again), and to drive (I had a very strong panic attack on April 10 while driving and had to take 0.375g of Rivotril, that is, three-quarters of a 0.5g pill).

Then I had another panic attack when leaving the house (I wasn't driving) on April 12 and I took 0.25g of Rivotril (half a 0.5g pill).

 

And another panic attack today while I was driving again and I’m here stopped, writing this while I wait for the half Rivotril (0.25g) to take effect so I can go to work.

 

Honestly, the situation is no longer sustainable because I have anxiety almost all the time (unless I’m in bed or at home) and I also don’t want to have to be taking Rivotril every time I have a panic attack...

 

My feeling is that this is no longer withdrawal syndrome but a relapse, because it’s everything that happened to me when I started taking SSRIs: generalized anxiety with agoraphobia and amaxophobia (fear of driving).

 

In this case, would you recommend increasing the dose of Paroxetine to 5mg, a dose with which I have often been stable? I don’t want to ask the psychiatrist because they will tell me to take 20mg. I have been delaying the moment and trying to hold on with 2.5mg to see if I would stabilize but... I can’t take it anymore and I don’t know if it makes sense to endure this much.

 

Could it be a good time to switch to Paroxetine in drops so that later it might be easier to withdraw in the future? Or do you not recommend it?

 

By the way, another thing I’ve noticed is that when I take Rivotril, because I have a panic attack, the next day I am fine, calm, as if the effect lasts... it’s curious because theoretically they say that anxiolytics have a short life but... in my case, it isn’t so.

 

Thank you very much for your help!