Theopold: 1 Month off Sertraline - Increasing Withdrawal Symptoms

[theopold]

Hey there,

 

It's my first post, and I'm hoping to get a little reassurance and support.  For a relatively short time, I was on both a benzo and an AD due to health anxiety.  August of last year, I was diagnosed with a pulmonary embolism.  Spent a week in the hospital, and then I was on blood thinners for 3 months after the hospitalization.  As I was finishing up the third month of the blood thinners, I started to develop some relatively mild stomach issues.  Went to see a gastro, who prescribed a PPI, H2 blocker, and a couple of other prescriptions. 

 

Point of all this history is...I now know that those stomach issues were a result of anxiety - fear, really - associated with making the decision to come off the blood thinners. At the time, however, based on somewhat careless comments the gastro made, along with my history of health anxiety, in short order I convinced myself that those minor stomach problems were actually some form of cancer...sigh.  Cutting to the chase, the resulting anxiety had me self-medicating with Xanax for about a month, until I had an endoscopy and received the all clear.  At that point, I started to taper off the Xanax, in what I thought at the time was a "reasonable" way. 

 

Of course, I started having withdrawal issues, the most difficult being insomnia.  At which point, I made an appointment with a psychiatrist.  In my mind, that appointment was just gonna be a bit of a "sanity" check.  What ended up happening was the psychiatrist put me on Clonazepam, Tranmed, and Zoloft.  Now, in my defense, lol, I'd just like to say...at the time of that appointment I hadn't slept for 3 days.  I'd also just come out of another 2-day hospital stay for food poisoning.  And finally, about three decades earlier, I'd actually been on both Zoloft and Clonazepam whilst in therapy with a psychologist, and I had zero issues when I eventually stopped both of those drugs CT way back then. 

 

After that first visit with the psychiatrist, I finally got some sleep.  With a somewhat clearer head, I realized that although I did not want to continue taking any benzo, let alone two, and therefore stopped the Tranmed within a few days, I figured I'd use the Clonazepam short-term (with it's longer half-life) to briefly reinstate in order to address the Xanax withdrawal symptoms, and taper off the Clonazepam over the next few weeks.  Regarding the Zoloft, initially I frankly didn't want to be on an AD at all, but...thinking back to my first usage of an AD - a lifetime ago, lol - I thought, OK I'll give it a try for a short time, why not?  Knowing what I now know, that was obviously not a very good idea.  But, I ended up taking 25mg of Zoloft for a couple weeks, followed by about 8 weeks at 50mg, including my taper. 

 

Ok, so...the Clonazepam taper went relatively well, I feel.  I had some low-level anxiety for a couple of weeks, a couple of panic attacks, and that was pretty much it?  I was still on the Zoloft at the time, so maybe that helped??  After jumping from the Clonazepam, I started to taper from the Zoloft.  I wanted off at that point because of the side effects.  For about a week at the 25mg dose, I had GI issues.  At the 50mg dose, I had more significant GI issues, insomnia (again), night sweats, anxiety, etc.  And so, I decided to taper off the Zoloft.  After the fact, it is clear that even though I was on the Zoloft for a short period of time, my taper was still too fast.  I'm now 4 weeks off the Zoloft.  From a health anxiety standpoint, the most challenging issue at this point is the GI issues.  It started with mild bloating, gas, and stomach pain on my last taper, and those symptoms have since continued right up through today.  On the psychological side, been having some windows and waves, and the waves haven't been too bad - up until these last few days. 

 

Which brings me to my two questions...One, I've read quite a few examples of other folks having stomach pain, but seemingly not as many comments about aches, pains, etc, specifically in the pelvic, and groin region.  So yeah, any other folks have discomfort specifically in this area? And, obviously, I would love to know exactly when those pains will stop, lol, because it's creating significant havoc with my health anxiety, but I know that's not possible.  Second question, I know it's not beyond the pale to still be dealing with the psychological issues at this stage.  However, the depth of my anxiety, and despair, during these recent waves, is frankly scaring me.  Especially the intrusive thoughts wherein I'm often convincing myself I'm doing all this to myself "on purpose", somehow - the psychological anguish - meaning maybe I don't really want to "get better", or...maybe I really do have some very serious mental health issues.  And, as I say, this frightens me very much.  And finally, just the last few days my insomnia has come back and so that doesn't put me in a very healthy state of mind right at the moment.  I have been using melatonin for a couple of weeks now, and it was helping, but...maybe not so much any more? 

 

Any comments, suggestions, reassurances on any of the above would be greatly appreciated.  As you can see from my sig file and what I've written here, I really am a short-term user of both drugs, I was doing what I thought - at the time - was a "responsible" taper, but nevertheless...I'm kind of struggling quite a bit right now.       

[Carmie]

Welcome @theopold

 

I’m sorry to read you’ve had so many health issues. Our emotions and traumas that we haven’t processed can bring on all sorts of symptoms. The books The Body Keeps The Score by Bessel van der Kolk, and When The Body says No, by Gabor Mate really highlight this. The stress of having health anxiety can make our symptoms worse too. 
 

I’m glad to hear that your Clonazepam taper went well, but be aware that sometimes withdrawals don’t always hit straight away. They can hit quite a way down the track. You tapered way too fast off the Zoloft too, and that’s no doubt why you’re suffering so much with bad withdrawals at the moment. Looks like you’ve come off a few things not too long ago too. All this adds up. 
 

You’re still in the window of reinstating a small amount of Zoloft to try and help with the withdrawal symptoms. You could try 1mg or so, and see if it helps. A lot of people have found reinstating a small amount of the medication they came off has helped, after which they tapered off that slowly. There are no guarantees that it will work and sometimes it can make matters worse, but as mentioned it’s helped a lot of people. Only you can make that choice though. 
 

With tapering, it’s recommended to taper by no more than 10% off the last dose every month. 
 

There is a thread entitled “ Chronic Pelvic Pain Syndrome,” if you want to check it out. The quickest way to get to it is just Google survivingantidepressants and chronic pelvic pain syndrome. It can be a side effect of medication, but also trauma. We can get pain anywhere in our bodies from these medications. I had a burning mouth once for many months, I didn’t realise it was from withdrawals until later. 
 

As regards our thoughts when going through withdrawals, they can certainly all be heightened. Check out the thread entitled Neuro- Emotions. There are links in the first paragraph there on dealing with emotional spirals, health anxiety, hypochondria etc . There is also a thread on insomnia you might like to check out.
 

No one can say when our symptoms will end, it would be great if we knew though, wouldn’t it?

 

If you’d like to try them a number of people have found using magnesium and fish oil of benefit. Just try a small amount of one and work your way up, and then do the same with the other. We can be sensitive to lots of things, so we have to see if we can tolerate them first. Also, please stay away from alcohol and cut down on your caffeine and sugar, as well as exercise that’s too strenuous, as all these things can affect us. 
 

Feel free to pop over to other people’s threads and have a chat💛

[theopold]

Hi @Carmie

 

 Thanks for your reply, and your suggestions as well.  I will check out both of those threads you recommend.  As for reinstating, yes I have thought about possibly doing that.  And then...you have a window, lol.  I was obviously in a wave when I made my initial post, but I have since been in a window for 2 days and counting.  As such, I've slept better the last couple of nights and the intrusive thoughts have receded considerably.  Bottom line on reinstating...I'm going to give it a few more days, I guess? 

 

I do understand that there are no "guarantees" here - as you say, withdrawal issues from the clonazepam could still crop up at a later date.  But, my preference at this point, at least, would be to continue to reassure myself via the similar experiences of so many other kind souls here, along with an increasing awareness gained from working through each of the waves that, while it may take some more time, I'm going to be OK!     

[Carmie]

You’re welcome @theopold, 

 

You made me smile, yes, we can certainly make different decisions when in a wave compared to when we are in a window😁. I’m glad to hear you’ve had a few good nights of sleep💛

[theopold]

Ah, ain't life a beach?  Just posting a quick update...Since my last post, I think that window I mentioned previously lasted one more day?  Subsequent to that more "traditional" window, I seem to be experiencing something similar to what I read on another recent post here?  Which is to say...not a clear delineation between windows and waves, but both are happening with more, or less, "symptoms" mixed in?  In other words, primarily good days with a little, or a moderate, amount of bad, and primarily bad days with a little, or a moderate, amount of good, lol.

 

Speaking of which, I've definitely noticed a significant difference between what my symptoms are like at any given time based on whether or not I'm able to effectively "distract" myself - which probably seems pretty obvious, yes?  For example, much to my chagrin, I'm currently on a dose of antibiotics and it's exacerbating my existing stomach issues.  I really, really, do not want to take ANY meds right now, but...a friend of mine carelessly infected me with conjunctivitis three weeks ago.  And, you know, with conjunctivitis one gets into the whole "viral" vs "bacterial" thing, and...should I, or do I need to, take an antibiotic?  Well, so, after about 2 weeks of symptoms, I finally caved and went to see an eye doctor.  Nice guy and everything, but he ended up prescribing FOUR different meds, including an antibiotic?  The other drugs included meds for headaches, and meds for inflammation - neither or which did I mention to the eye doctor, nor did I have such issues.  I swear, I really feel like it used to not be like this in terms of doctors just going crazy these days with all the pills???

 

Anyway, I'm getting off topic, lol.  The antibiotics for the conjunctivitis are definitely messing my stomach up lately.  Except, when I'm able to distract myself - exercise, socializing, daily errands, etc - I literally stop experiencing/feeling my stomach symptoms for a while.  And, the craziest thing...when you realize your symptoms are sometimes - abating, lets call it - you would THINK that might help to ease your health anxiety the next time the same, or a similar, symptom(s) crops up?  Yeah, no.  And really, beyond the sudden onsets of depersonalization, intrusive thoughts, mood swings, etc, etc, one of the most challenging issues is when that health anxiety hits as mentioned, and I feel like I am personally "choosing" to torture myself.  Sometimes I just feel like I'm "choosing" to not help myself, or "choosing" to actively make it worse, as a way to...I don't know...punish myself? 

 

 And finally, can I just say...insomnia just makes everything worse, lol.  As mentioned in my sig file, I've been using melatonin and it does seem to help, but even so I basically never get a night of uninterrupted sleep right now.  As for the total duration, it's probably averaging about 5-6 hours?  Which, ya know, is probably not something to complain too much about at this point, eh?  Even so, then come those times where you simply cannot buy a thrill.  Long story short, I have two dogs, and last night they were off there regular schedule, essentially.  And so, one of my dogs woke me up in the middle of the night because he needed to pee.  Which is great, except, I obviously start to obsess about getting back to sleep.  Which I almost succeeded in doing until...a short time later, my other dog just up and pissed all over the bedroom floor...sigh.  

 

And that was it for any more sleep last night.  And honestly, throughout all of this experience...the serious medical issue, the subsequent irrational and debilitating health anxiety, the second hospitalization, the various drugs, the withdrawals, etc, etc, I really still think there's nothing worse than laying there in the dead of night like that, feeling alone and frightened, wondering for the 'nth time if it really is the withdrawal symptoms or maybe you're just doing it to yourself, i.e. you're some type of weird masochist, and if it will ever really, truly, end?  Yes, times like last night are pretty tough, but what other choice do we really have, except to keep on fighting?  I want my damn life back, damnit...  

 

 

 

      

[Tuikea]

I can totally relate to what you are saying dogs and all.

Keep strong you can do this ❤️

[theopold]

@Tuikea Thank you for your reply, my friend.  It honestly means a great deal to me right now...

[theopold]

Ok so, subsequent to my last post, had better sleep two nights ago.  As usual, I woke up in the middle of the night, but after an hour or so I started listening to guided meditation and subsequently fell back asleep for maybe another 1-2 hours.  I also started using an eye mask, which I think probably helped as well.  And so, I kept busy most of the day yesterday and I had a fairly good day.

 

Went to bed as per my usual schedule last night, woke up in the middle of the night, as usual, but unlike previous occasions I woke up with massive anxiety.  Usually, I will wake up during the night and start obsessing over falling back to sleep, which will lead to increased anxiety.  As I say, however, last night I just woke up to immediate and substantial anxiety.  Tried listening to the guided meditation again, along with a couple of other things, but no luck. 

 

I know that last night's insomnia is obviously a contributing factor, but...I'm just very upset and depressed right now.  I think we all develop various coping mechanisms, and in terms of my health anxiety, one of mine has been my mantra, "just a few more days; just a few more days and it will get better".  The most recent example of this would be the antibiotic drops for the conjunctivitis and the havoc it's wreaking with my stomach.  So, this morning it's...just a few more days, just a few more days and I'll be finished with the antibiotic and it will be out of my system.  just a few more days, and my stomach issues will improve.  And maybe in just a few more days my improved stomach issues will help with my insomnia, etc, etc.  But, "just a few more days" has been going on for quite a while now, and I'm worried that I'm running out of the strength to cope.  As a result the very dark thoughts come, which obviously frightens me even more. 

 

Bottom line, I'm feeling very frightened and alone right now, and god...I could really use a hug.        

[theopold]

Quick question...I've been using melatonin for insomnia almost every night for about a month or so.  Been taking an extended release pill, 1mg, or sometimes 1.5mg, per night. In the last several days, I was starting to feel like it wasn't working as well?  And so, two nights ago I upped the dosage to a total of 3.25mg taken throughout the night.  Well, starting yesterday I had an upset stomach all day - nausea, bloating, mild pain/discomfort, etc.  And then last night, at some point during the night I woke up with stomach pain that lasted the rest of the night.  After getting up this morning, I also had diarrhea. 

 

I've been having GI issues since coming off the zoloft - about a month or so, give or take.  But in the last week or so my GI issues were actually starting to subside, and I haven't had a literal diarrhea episode for quite a long while.  And so, my question...anyone have experience with stomach issues from taking a larger dose of melatonin?  I've read that "nausea" can be a fairly common side effect of melatonin but I've only so far seen one reference to diarrhea being a possible side effect. 

 

Alternatively, I guess it could be just a recurrence of a withdrawal side effect, and therefore have nothing to do with the increase in melatonin?  Anyone have a similar experience?  BTW, in the meantime, I had actually already reduced my melatonin dose last night, and now that I've had the diarrhea today, I will reduce the melatonin dose even further tonight to see if that helps.     

[theopold]

Ok, so I'm back to my previous dose of melatonin, but the stomach pains and diarrhea persist.  I've got to say, it's very frustrating to have improvement with my GI issues over the last few weeks, only to have them now resurface once again.  I haven't made any dietary changes recently, or ANY changes, really, beyond the one day of increasing the melatonin dosage.  I took some pepto-bismol for the last couple of days, and it helped, but then I stopped last night just to see if the diarrhea might subside, but...it's back again this morning, and even with the pepto the stomach pains never got any better - I should probably mention that most, if not all, of the stomach "pains" seem to be due to constant bloating.    I've already checked the very lengthy post on digestive problems, and although it is full of various suggestions for treating symptoms, what it is sadly lacking is commentary from folks who had GI issues, and when they eventually resolved.  Soooooo...focusing on the positive, lol, I will DEFINITELY make a follow up post at some point just to let folks know how long my stomach issues persisted, and when they finally stopped!

 

In terms of my insomnia, as mentioned I'm now back to my "regular" dose (1mg - 1.25mg) of melatonin for a couple of days, and somewhat surprisingly my sleep has been getting better!  Specifically...the melatonin helps me to fall asleep initially, and I tend to sleep for about 3-4 hours or so?  At which point, I wake up, and sometimes take another small dose of melatonin.  FYI, I've seen it mentioned here in one other place on this site, but in case folks haven't seen that other post...when you cut up an extended dose tablet, it can actually change the effect to "immediate release"!  In the case of extended release melatonin - I use Circadin - some researchers actually tested it.  Turns out, if you cut it in half, it remains extended release.  If you cut it in quarters, however, it becomes immediate release.  Pretty wild, eh?  Anyway, I take a half in the evenings, 1-2 hours before bed, and I sometimes take a quarter in the middle of the night. 

 

Getting back to my main point, lol, I'm sleeping better the last two nights in that when I do wake up during the night, I'm better able to deal with intrusive thoughts and the anxiety they typically produce.  Which means, of course, I fall back to sleep easier.  So, yeah, I guess that's my tradeoff right now?  I'm sleeping better recently, but my stomach issues have resurfaced?  The stomach issues definitely send my health anxiety through the roof, sigh, but just like everything else that's happened in terms of my withdrawal experience...a new symptom hits - or in this case an old one resurfaces - and you just have to use your coping skills to manage the initial spike in anxiety and depression, and then just accept that it's a journey you're on right now, it's one day at a time, it's not going to last forever, and you WILL get better.  Definitely sucks in the meantime, however...lol.       

[Ariel]

Hi @theopold

 

12 hours ago, theopold said:

I've got to say, it's very frustrating to have improvement with my GI issues over the last few weeks, only to have them now resurface once again. 

 

I'm sorry you're dealing with GI issues. That's a very common symptom when navigating adverse consequences of psych drugs. 

 

Your experience of noticing improvements followed by a return of issues is also typical in WD. This is part of the non-linear windows and waves pattern of healing. Symptoms change and evolve, we feel that some things get better for a while and other things flare up, then maybe something we thought was resolved comes back, then fades again, etc. What you're describing is normal for the WD process. Best to enjoy the respite during a period of symptom relief, without attachment that from now on everything will be permanently fixed. Acknowledge the pause and relative peace and accept that the healing pattern is unpredictable, and that's just how it is. Keep on keeping on and you will heal eventually along with everyone else who has healed. 

 

12 hours ago, theopold said:

I've already checked the very lengthy post on digestive problems, and although it is full of various suggestions for treating symptoms, what it is sadly lacking is commentary from folks who had GI issues, and when they eventually resolved. 

 

Have you read any success stories in the recovery forum? If you haven't yet, highly recommend you do so. Pretty much everyone who comes back to write a success story, if they go into their symptom profile at all, notes that their GI issues have resolved. Evidence of healing abounds, incl. healing and resolution of GI issues! 

 

12 hours ago, theopold said:

just like everything else that's happened in terms of my withdrawal experience...a new symptom hits - or in this case an old one resurfaces - and you just have to use your coping skills to manage the initial spike in anxiety and depression, and then just accept that it's a journey you're on right now, it's one day at a time, it's not going to last forever, and you WILL get better.  Definitely sucks in the meantime, however...lol.     

 

Yes, you've got the right idea, and you know what to do. Well done for your own wisdom showing up, and the rest is just the practicing acceptance piece. It's a practice for all of us, and we get better at it the more we practice. So yeah, WD does suck, no arguments there. You're welcome to vent and complain, everyone here understands and agrees that we'd pretty much rather be doing anything else other than going through WD! And then, after we've complained -- we accept accept accept, leaning into radical acceptance and self-compassion, practicing acceptance and non-drug coping skills. 

 

You got this, theopold! 

 

[Ariel]

Hello again @theopold

 

Have a look at pug's success story.

He came off zoloft and suffered from "extreme bloating and stomach pain".

In his success story he writes, "I now eat anything that I choose although I eat as healthily as possible because I value life so much now and I want to live as long as possible"!

 

 

 

[Ariel]

You can use this link to search the recovery forum for success stories pertaining to zoloft (or modify the search to filter for anything else):

 

https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/search/?q=zoloft&quick=1&type=forums_topic&nodes=28

[Ariel]

Here's the windows and waves topic, in case it comes in handy:

 

 

 

[theopold]

Hi @Ariel

 

Thank you very much for your reply 😊  I don't have the greatest support network right now, so your kind words of encouragement mean a great deal to me.  Thank you as well for the various links!  I've already read through all of Pug's success story posts, and it was comforting to know that his stomach issues eventually resolved - it seems I can never hear that enough right now, lol. 

 

The other interesting item he mentions has to do with whether, or not, to seek out medical advice regarding any/all withdrawal symptoms.  Speaking for myself, on the plus side it would be reassuring for someone with health anxiety - like me -  to have it "officially" confirmed that I'm not suffering from some incurable/terminal disease right now.  On the other hand, not everyone has access to unlimited healthcare, obviously.  Additionally, if I were to speak with a gastro, for example, about my current stomach issues, I have very little doubt that they would order some combination of body fluid tests, an ultrasound, and a colonoscopy.  And, in the meantime, a variety of (merely) palliative drugs would also be prescribed - just because many doctors, it seems to me, love prescribing pills these days

 

So yeah, very personal decision, obviously, but as Pug points out in one of his posts in that success story thread, one tries to make an informed decision, and then remains honest with oneself about thereby accepting any potential consequences.  Oh, and not to mention in all of this...trying to suggest/explain to a doctor that you suspect whatever issue you're seeing them about is possibly related to AD withdrawal symptoms will often be a complete non-starter!  Sigh. 

 

I haven't had a chance to read all of the success stories linked to sertraline, but...I've right now got a dozen or so tabs open in my browser, lol, and I will be reading as many as possible later today, so thank you for that.  And thanks as well for the "reminder" in terms of the post on windows and waves.  I have previously spent some time reviewing that post, but I'm still going to re-read it now in hopes of potentially learning more about symptoms that resurface vs windows and waves in more general terms of good periods and bad.  

[Ariel]

Hi @theopold

 

16 minutes ago, theopold said:

thanks as well for the "reminder" in terms of the post on windows and waves.  I have previously spent some time reviewing that post, but I'm still going to re-read it now in hopes of potentially learning more about symptoms that resurface vs windows and waves in more general terms of good periods and bad.  

 

The symptoms that subside and re-surface ARE windows and waves. 

It's not a question of "symptoms that resurface vs windows and waves in more general terms of good periods and bad", i.e. one vs. the other. 

The symptoms and waves are the same thing. 

This is a very common misconception in regards to the interpretation of what a windows and waves pattern of healing/stabilization means. It's often misunderstood, and this misunderstanding can cause unnecessary rumination and, frankly, waste precious energy.

 

A window is not necessarily an experience of everything across the board suddenly feeling fantastic all at the same time. Such windows may occur, but every window is different. Many if not most windows comprise relative relief of specific individual symptoms (as opposed to total resolution of all symptoms simultaneously). For example, a period of improved digestion and respite from previous GI issues can be considered a window, even when other WD symptoms may still be present (e.g. poor sleep). If/when digestion issues appear anew, this is a sort of wave, even if at the same time maybe something else has temporarily receded. Thus, one might experience windows and waves at the same time across a variety of symptoms. One way to think of it is that every distinct symptom has its own unique windows and wave pattern of healing. Of course we are each in one body and experiencing the totality of WD in this body all at once, so it may be sort of a leap to think of these symptoms as discrete; and of course, it's not like anything is truly separate/independent, certainly everything is interconnected in complex and mysterious ways that are impossible for us to grasp. Nature's intelligence is ever at work towards healing and wholeness, and it is vast and powerful and far beyond anything we could ever comprehend. 

 

The anxious mind wants certainty, hence the cognitive bias towards binary thinking, "good vs. bad" or "window vs. wave". Most of the time lived reality is not so clear-cut. While one may occasionally in WD experience a stretch of time -- hours, a day or days, maybe even weeks or longer -- of feeling "back to normal" (whatever that may mean to the person in question), usually it's a constantly moving target of symptoms and symptom relief getting shuffled around in any number of combinations and constellations. I have heard of windows lasting one minute and windows lasting months; I've heard of waves lasting minutes and waves lasting years. The bottom line is, it is all forward movement in the ongoing process of healing, and it's all okay; even when it feels very far from okay, it's okay. 

 

Why is this important to understand? 

Because we don't do ourselves any favors by trying to analyze and pinpoint tendencies or control/predict outcomes. The mind applies its pattern recognition proclivity as a means to fix a problem for which mind has no solution; thus mind's efforts are futile and cause suffering. We cannot ever know where we are in the greater scope of the healing process; we do not and cannot know the timeline or where we are on it relative to recovery. We can/do know that we are healing, that we are in recovery, we are in process. Monkey mind and WD-brain will try to tell us, "but we're not on track" or "what if we're going off track", etc. These thoughts are not true, they are just the anxious, fear-based thoughts of WD-brain, and that's where non-drug coping skills come into play. 

 

Bottom line: use the idea of windows and waves in any way that is helpful to you. It is a concept, a language-based tool. It is not a crystal ball, a calculation model, a future predictor, a geo-meteorological computer; nor is it a dummy/pacifier, a baby blanket, a lullaby. It's just a metaphor to aid interpersonal social communication and attempt to describe embodied experience; and, as such, it is approximate, messy, and imperfect. 

 

All you really need to know is: your body is healing, and in the meantime you are perceiving aspects of that healing process as it shows up in lived embodied experience via sensory phenomena. 

 

If you're not yet familiar with this post, I suggest you read it and bookmark it for future reference; I cannot tell you how many times I've revisited it over the years!

 

 

[Ariel]

55 minutes ago, theopold said:

The other interesting item he mentions has to do with whether, or not, to seek out medical advice regarding any/all withdrawal symptoms.  Speaking for myself, on the plus side it would be reassuring for someone with health anxiety - like me -  to have it "officially" confirmed that I'm not suffering from some incurable/terminal disease right now.  On the other hand, not everyone has access to unlimited healthcare, obviously.  Additionally, if I were to speak with a gastro, for example, about my current stomach issues, I have very little doubt that they would order some combination of body fluid tests, an ultrasound, and a colonoscopy.  And, in the meantime, a variety of (merely) palliative drugs would also be prescribed - just because many doctors, it seems to me, love prescribing pills these days

 

So yeah, very personal decision, obviously, but as Pug points out in one of his posts in that success story thread, one tries to make an informed decision, and then remains honest with oneself about thereby accepting any potential consequences.  Oh, and not to mention in all of this...trying to suggest/explain to a doctor that you suspect whatever issue you're seeing them about is possibly related to AD withdrawal symptoms will often be a complete non-starter!  Sigh. 

 

This is indeed something every person must decide for themselves. 

 

The general recommendation across SA seems to be that it can be useful to get things checked out, if only to be able to eliminate any significant non-WD health risks. Some people do have comorbidities and benefit from appropriate, responsible treatment to address them. 

 

At the same time, each individual knows best what's right for them and would do well to use their higher, wiser mind to guide them through the fog of WD, health anxiety, screening for possibly counterindicated drug protocols, etc. It can be a lot to navigate on top of everything else. 

 

I don't know what it's like to be you, I'm not in your body, only you are. 

 

What I do know is that the site abounds with member accounts of dealing with this very question, countless examples of how they've approached the issue and circumvented pitfalls. There are also topics about how/when to talk to doctors about WD, how/when to advocate for oneself vis-à-vis medical professionals, and how/when it may be best ro refrain from mentioning anything. 

 

You are not alone in wondering about this, and I encourage you to get familiar with the many resources and member-generated content here on SA in support of your journey. It seems like you're already doing that, which is great! Keep up the good work, theopold, you're doing a great job!

[theopold]

Hello @Ariel

 

21 hours ago, Ariel said:

Hi @theopold

 

 

The symptoms that subside and re-surface ARE windows and waves. 

It's not a question of "symptoms that resurface vs windows and waves in more general terms of good periods and bad", i.e. one vs. the other. 

The symptoms and waves are the same thing. 

This is a very common misconception in regards to the interpretation of what a windows and waves pattern of healing/stabilization means. It's often misunderstood, and this misunderstanding can cause unnecessary rumination and, frankly, waste precious energy.

 

 

 

Yes, I understand what you're saying here - it's seems pretty obvious when you spell it out like that, lol.  Perhaps a better way for me to convey what I was trying to say, then, would be...Rightly or wrongly, I tend to view "physical" side effects vs "mental" side effects differently, including in terms of windows and waves. By way of further explanation, while my mental side effects do tend to come and go - windows and waves - my stomach issues have been basically continuous for the last 6 weeks or so.  And, while they did vary in intensity over that period, the variation was very much linear - slowly decreasing, and not given to variations up and down.  Until, that is, the event I mentioned previously, wherein it came back full force over the course of a couple of days.

 

And too, I feel that my stomach issues are perhaps the primary cause of much of my mental anxiety right now.  Meaning, I'm not sure what can be attributed to ( general health-anxiety-based) worry over my stomach problems vs unrelated "mental" side effects deriving from the drug withdrawal?  But, in a very real sense maybe the "answer" to that question doesn't even matter?  Except, perhaps, it would be nice for the stomach issues to enter a window period, haha, so I could see where my head was then at, lol?  

 

 

    

[theopold]

@Ariel

 

21 hours ago, Ariel said:

You are not alone in wondering about this, and I encourage you to get familiar with the many resources and member-generated content here on SA in support of your journey. It seems like you're already doing that, which is great! Keep up the good work, theopold, you're doing a great job!

 

Thanks again for your kind words of support ☺️  And, yes, I do continue to rely on the various resources, and member content, available here on a pretty much daily basis!  It's also quite comforting in and of itself to just come here and be reminded of all of the generous and good-hearted folks in the world...

[Ariel]

Hi @theopold

 

I've just read through your thread again. It sounds like you've been prescribed (and taken?) a wide variety of drugs in less than a year. 

 

On 4/27/2024 at 2:07 PM, theopold said:

For a relatively short time, I was on both a benzo and an AD due to health anxiety.  August of last year, I was diagnosed with a pulmonary embolism.  Spent a week in the hospital, and then I was on blood thinners for 3 months after the hospitalization.  As I was finishing up the third month of the blood thinners, I started to develop some relatively mild stomach issues.  Went to see a gastro, who prescribed a PPI, H2 blocker, and a couple of other prescriptions. 

 

On 4/27/2024 at 2:07 PM, theopold said:

self-medicating with Xanax

 

On 4/27/2024 at 2:07 PM, theopold said:

the psychiatrist put me on Clonazepam, Tranmed, and Zoloft

 

On 5/5/2024 at 5:45 AM, theopold said:

I'm currently on a dose of antibiotics

 

On 5/5/2024 at 5:45 AM, theopold said:

he ended up prescribing FOUR different meds, including an antibiotic

 

 

Based on the above, I count a minimum of 12 different drugs + melatonin, for a grand total of 13 (since August last year alone, it seems, so in the past 9-10 months). It's not clear whether all the aforementioned prescriptions have been filled and used, but it seems most of them have been. 

 

As Carmie pointed out in her welcome post at the top of your thread:

 

On 4/29/2024 at 3:52 AM, Carmie said:

Looks like you’ve come off a few things not too long ago too. All this adds up. 

 

In other words, you've been on and off numerous medications in a short period of time. Every time we go on and off a drug, be it a psych drug or any other type of drug, it places certain demands on the body. The effects of this are cumulative. Not to mention that you had a pulmonary embolism and a week-long hospitalization, which is taxing regardless of any subsequent chemical interventions. Your body has been dealing with multiple stressors, both consecutive and concurrent, both chemical and not, and that takes its toll. 

 

My first suggestion is to update your drug signature to include any and all medications you have used in the past two years, incl. non-psych drugs. This will allow for a more accurate overview of recent drug history and will help moderators and other members to better support you.

 

Remember that the body is a whole system, everything is connected and interdependent. Categorizations such as "psych drugs" and "non-psych drugs" are largely arbitrary and made up by our minds as a way to try to categorize, define, organize, etc. Of course different drugs are meant to have different functions within the body and are taken for specific purposes; and at the same time, to the body, these are all foreign, chemical substances that require physiological work to process.

 

You have been through a lot, and your body has been through a lot. Give yourself grace. 

 

The other thing is, as Carmie also pointed out:

 

On 4/29/2024 at 3:52 AM, Carmie said:

I’m glad to hear that your Clonazepam taper went well, but be aware that sometimes withdrawals don’t always hit straight away. They can hit quite a way down the track. You tapered way too fast off the Zoloft too, and that’s no doubt why you’re suffering so much with bad withdrawals at the moment.

 

So it looks like you are dealing with at least 3 simultaneous too-fast tapers (i.e., de facto cold turkeys) off of potent psych drugs (Xanax, Clonazepam, and Zoloft) in less than 6 months; two benzos and an AD, and that's not counting the numerous other prescription medications involved. It's no wonder you are feeling the impact!

 

This is why Carmie mentioned reinstatement as a possibility: 

 

On 4/29/2024 at 3:52 AM, Carmie said:

You’re still in the window of reinstating a small amount of Zoloft to try and help with the withdrawal symptoms. You could try 1mg or so, and see if it helps. A lot of people have found reinstating a small amount of the medication they came off has helped, after which they tapered off that slowly. There are no guarantees that it will work and sometimes it can make matters worse, but as mentioned it’s helped a lot of people. Only you can make that choice though. 

 

Have you given any more thought to reinstatement? 

As Carmie wrote, this is your choice to make, and only you can make that choice. 

That being said, the issue is time-sensitive, and I encourage you to weigh your options sooner rather than later. 

You're already looking at double benzo WD, and right now you may have the opportunity to curb the worst of ADWD, which may make things a bit easier on you. 

 

I have no personal experience with benzo withdrawals, nor with successful reinstatement, nor appropriate, hyperbolic tapers; I cannot advise on this one way or another. 

What I can say is that I have inadvertently rapid-tapered/CTed multiple ADs, causing acute WD and leading to severe protracted withdrawal syndrome (PWS/PAWS). I'm currently in my 7th year of recovery and far from out of the woods, unable to lead a normal life. At the time I did not know about WD, PAWS, reinstatement, or any of it. If I had it to do over again, I would choose the slow, steady, hyperbolic tapering route every time.

 

Ultimately, a slow taper is rarely slower than the total time required to recover from CT. For example, I recently plotted out for myself a hypothetical timeline of a hyperbolic taper off past drugs, out of curiosity to see where I'd be at today, taper-wise, compared to actual post-CT, PAWS reality; at least in theory (provided that everything went according to plan), I'd be nearing the very end of my taper. However, the true difference lies not so much in the total quantity of time but the quality of that time. When managed correctly, a responsible, harm-reduction, hyperbolic taper is an incomparably more livable experience, often affording one the opportunity to maintain functionality, continue living one's life (family, friends, work, hobbies, etc.), and avoid the worst, most debilitating symptoms altogether. 

 

To help you in your deliberations, you might want to carefully read through SA's topics on Zoloft, tapering, and reinstatement. 

Here is a member discussion of lived experience of reinstatement. 

 

As Carmie said, there are no guarantees, and only you can do the cost-benefit risk analysis for yourself. 

I do think it's worth considering.