Dragonz: Antidepressants and Why the Bad Rap?

[dragonz]

I'm new to this forum but does anyone have any GOOD experiences with antidepressants? I'm in no way a Scientologist but it seems there is a lot of negativity from what I have seen in regards to these medications. I was curious though, if ANYONE has had positive feedback from the medications for Depression or Anxiety issues.

[Altostrata]

It's possible one might have a positive response to an antidepressant, but the question is at what cost? Adverse effects have been understated and benefits overstated in order to sell drugs.

 

Do you know the true health impact of your medication?

 

Massive advertising and public relation campaigns about the dangers of "mental illness" and the benefits of psychiatric drugs have been conducted worldwide to add billions to pharma profits.

 

Members here have chosen to discontinue their medications for many valid reasons. They have found that one of the deliberately hidden adverse aspects of psychiatric medications is they can be difficult to discontinue, and that withdrawal symptoms are not invariably mild and transient, as medicine claims.

 

What is your own interest in participating on this site?

[dragonz]

I used an older drug- Desipramine in 1986 and after three weeks, I can tell you the drug worked. It lifted me out of a dark depression. Maybe some drugs work for others- but other people, they do not work. I know they aren't for everyone. I was just curious if anyone has had POSITIVE experiences with these medications

[Altostrata]

I believe you will find the Internet full of sites where people are praising their drugs.

 

If you look at the name of this site, you may infer it's not for psychiatric drug enthusiasts.

 

The Introductions forum contains case histories recounting their varied experiences with the medications. I suggest you read it.

 

The question that opens this topic appears to be a rhetorical provocation with no constructive purpose.

[bruno2016]

I used an older drug- Desipramine in 1986 and after three weeks, I can tell you the drug worked. It lifted me out of a dark depression. Maybe some drugs work for others- but other people, they do not work. I know they aren't for everyone. I was just curious if anyone has had POSITIVE experiences with these medications

 

well yea, obviously. If no one had a good experience they would not be around. Even the most critical will say the drugs have a place. The problem, like already mentioned, is at what cost? It is already well established that there are many side effects and the long term consequences are less known, although if your a member here or another support group, you will see the long time users coming in with a variety of issues from poop out, to fibro-like issues, to worsening of the condition, to other things where there may be a connection (i.e. cancer, diabetes). Why not take a wholistic approach FIRST? get into therapy, get with a wholistic doctor who can search for root causes, and then go from there. Did you do all that BEFORE you went on drugs?

[enufodat]

Personally I think these drugs are the pits but I find the opening question important and think it can help make us more aware of the full picture.

 

My experience, overall, was clearly negative. They were helpful for a while, but I never needed them in any acute way and the long-term effects were definitely bad: sexual and weight-gain side effects, emotional blunting (subtle in my case but in the long run it had serious consequences) and then several excrutiating, drawn-out withdrawal attempts over several years...finally successful, but at very great cost and I have not yet dug myself quite out of the whole I got into--professionally, socially, etc..

 

But more to the point of your question: I know a few people who feel the drugs were helpful for them in the short-run and then did not have a problem getting off. I also know someone who had very, very severe and persistent depression (as in, years) and feels the drugs saved his life. Personally, I'm concerned that he now has long-term dependence and wonder if there might not have been better alternatives. But this is someone who did intensive therapy for years so was not simply relying on the quick drug-fix and I am loathe to make assumptions or judge given what he's been through. So ultimately, in my view, the drugs are generally pretty bad news but I also think it's very important to stay open-minded about cases like the ones I've described. Otherwise we risk replacing the dogma of the psychopharm-industrial-medical complex...with our own dogma. That despite the fact that I feel rather screwed and there are days when I really would like to ring some necks. Still, if some people feel they've had positive experiences, why not listen to them, too?

[alexjuice]

Very odd question as this is a support site called Surviving Antidepressants.

 

Do you visit sites called Surviving Plance Crashes and ask if anyone can share a hopeful experience of their crash?

 

I'm being comical not antagonistic. If you peruse the site you'll encounter vast evidence supporting the broad position.

 

However, sure, some people do say they benefit from the antidepressants. I assume if a person is aware of the long term risks (reduced life span, increased disease risk, etc) and tolerate the side effects well and is willing and skillful enough to pursue preventative interventions if, say, diabetes risk increases then taking one of the antidepressants for the rest of their life maybe a worthwhile gamnble for that person.

 

In my opinion, it's not a worthwhile gamble in the long term for anyone... But I don't choose for everyone, just me.

 

As far as I know, everyone here supports every individual's freedom to make their own health choices, though we also wish the average joe was better informed of the realities of risk and the conflicts and incentives underlying the relationships between their prescriber and then the insurancecompany/drugcompany...

 

Cheers

[dragonz]

Well I suffer daily anxiety and depression. I do go to psychological counseling but my symptoms have gotten worse in the past couple years. I stopped going to the gym as I get anxiety around people. My worst symptom is severe muscle tension in the back, neck and legs. All tests I had done from a cardiologist, endocrinologist, and a regular MD physician were negative for anything physical causing the symptoms. I was told anxiety is causing the muscle tension. I'm open to suggestions if anyone has natural or "holistic" remedies they benefited from.

[dragonz]

 

 

However, sure, some people do say they benefit from the antidepressants. I assume if a person is aware of the long term risks (reduced life span, increased disease risk, etc) and tolerate the side effects well and is willing and skillful enough to pursue preventative interventions if, say, diabetes risk increases then taking one of the antidepressants for the rest of their life maybe a worthwhile gamnble for that person.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

What about all of the people who kill themselves each year because of living in the dark pit of depression? I'm just curious- what alternatives are there which are proven to help? Any and all drugs have side effects- antidepressants are certainly not the only pills with side effects

[alexjuice]

I'm new to this forum but does anyone have any GOOD experiences with antidepressants? I'm in no way a Scientologist but it seems there is a lot of negativity from what I have seen in regards to these medications. I was curious though, if ANYONE has had positive feedback from the medications for Depression or Anxiety issues.

 

The best thing about Escitalopram is that it magnifies the effect of alcohol making it marvelously euphoric.

 

The best thing about Bupropion is that it magnifies the effect of cocaine making it marvelously euphoric.

 

Marvelous euphoria reduces Depression and Anxiety issues.

 

;-)

[Altostrata]

dragonz, one thing that might help you is to reduce stress in your life. For example, don't seek arguments on the Web.

 

If you think medication is the best choice for you, by all means, take medication, and seek reassurance about it somewhere else.

[alexjuice]

 

 

 

However, sure, some people do say they benefit from the antidepressants. I assume if a person is aware of the long term risks (reduced life span, increased disease risk, etc) and tolerate the side effects well and is willing and skillful enough to pursue preventative interventions if, say, diabetes risk increases then taking one of the antidepressants for the rest of their life maybe a worthwhile gamnble for that person.

 

 

Cheers

 

 

What about all of the people who kill themselves each year because of living in the dark pit of depression? I'm just curious- what alternatives are there which are proven to help? Any and all drugs have side effects- antidepressants are certainly not the only pills with side effects

 

Yes, if a person is in a daark pit of depression and on the brink of death, then he probably will be more tolerant of the risks.

 

Chronic medications cause side effects which cause downstream consequences. These have to be measured when making a health decision.

 

It's like economics. There are tradeoffs.

 

Many people choose to deal with stress/anxiety/depression without drugs and escape the side effects.

 

To your question: What problem do you need help with? Anxiety or depression?

 

Alternatives can be founds for both.

[dragonz]

I've got both anxiety and depression. Also have sleep problems probably caused by the anxiety and depression. I've got severe muscle tension, get heart palpitations where it feels like my heart is racing and pounding. I often feel dread in the morning and early afternoon. Odd thing is, I'm more depressed in the morning and less at the end of the day. I'm also more anxious in the mornings and less at the end of the day. Almost like both the anxiety and depression are one disorder, rather than separate. I've lost interest in so many things- even cooking or creative things. I want to go back to the gym, but my back is constantly "locked" in this muscle tension, when I work out my heart rate shoots up. I know it goes up when working out but with my back locked up in tension it's as though I'm in a constant fight or flight mode. The cardiologist did a battery of tests on me and said everything is fine but he feels it's anxiety causing my heart reactions. I'm just tired of feeling this way- hopeless and I'm always sad.

[dragonz]

I'm also always checking my pulse. Not sure if that's OCD or not but I freak out when it goes over 60 beats in a minute. Doesn't make sense. I never use to be so anxious- it just shot up exactly two years ago- in 2010 and I'm not sure why.

[Jemima]

It seems to me that you're trying to find someone or a group of someones who will tell you it's perfectly fine to take antidepressants for the problems you're experiencing.

 

This is not the place. Nearly all of the people who participate here more than once or twice are people who have been seriously injured by taking antidepressants and who would definitely NOT recommend that anyone take them. Side effects like substantially decreased life span and seriously increased risk of diabetes are two good and proven reasons I can think of to stay away from the drugs.

 

I'm not a doctor and this is just my intuition speaking here, but it sounds to me like you might have a hormonal imbalance based on your description of being "in a constant fight or flight mode" and the times of day when you feel the worst. If I were you, I'd have a thorough examination and testing done by an endocrinologist before considering psychiatric drugs.

 

And now, since this has essentially turned into an introductory post, I'm going to move this topic to that discussion heading.

[dragonz]

Jemima, I went to an endocrinologist who performed endocrine tests- they were normal. Because of my increased heart palpitations I went to a cardiologist as well- holter monitor for 24 hours was normal, EKG was normal, heart echo and ultrasound normal. Full blood panel of everything- including thyroid was normal. This was the first step to see if I might have a physical cause of my symptoms.

[peggy]

Hi Dragonz,

When i first went on AD's, they did lift me from a very bad place and made me functional within 3-4 weeks. But now i am paying the piper.

 

I note that you also had a similar experience - but now you are suffering anxiety. Many, many people notice that the drugs stop working over time. They either change drugs or 'wake up' and realise that it is the drug that is perhaps exacerbating (if not causing) the problem. It appears that the drugs work by changing the receptor profiles in your brain - but your brain keeps trying to adapt. If you are still on an AD, you might consider doing a very slow taper - 10% or less a month and engage in some psychological counselling to learn ways to manage and reduce your anxiety without medication.

[Karma]

I'm guessing they tested TSH for thyroid and it was within range so they proclaimed you were normal. Check out this thread http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1593-thyroid-symptoms/page__p__15040__hl__thyroid__fromsearch__1#entry15040.

 

In my experience the TSH is a flawed test and I refuse to be managed by it. My last TSH was 0.006, but my symptoms are wonderful. A better indicator for me is where the Free T3 is in the range ... I do best at the top of the range - many people become depressed even when they test low within range.

 

When I was first properly treated with thyroid replacement therapy I started having heart palpitations ... turns out my sodium was low in range (meaning that a normal physician would have said it was normal, but those with experience in these symptoms were able to identify the real problem). When I drank water with 1/2 teaspoon of celtic sea salt the heart palpitations resolved within the hour. The problem was an imbalance of electrolytes.

 

As far as antidepressants go ... some people do have a good experience with them, initially. But these medications are not studied over time to understand the long-term effects. In fact, the only information big pharma has on withdrawal is from the initial period of the clinical trials. They have no idea how to tell doctors to taper their patients off of the meds because they haven't done any studies on it.

 

Many times in this forum I've seen people beat themselves up for falling prey to the idea that a pill could resolve their problems only to end up here trying to find out how to taper off of these drugs and still maintain a reasonable quality of life. Each person makes the best decision he can make based on the information he has at the time. You have to make that choice for yourself.

 

My best suggestion is to do some additional research on thyroid. I'm not a medical professional just a patient who found that western medicine wasn't helping me ...

 

Karma

[dragonz]

So karma are you saying your symptoms were due to thyroid?? I'm confused. And if you thought western medicine wasn't helping you, what have you done as an alternative? I'm presently not on any antidepressant. I'm considering one only because I can't live the way I am living- I have an income source but I can't work a job. I stopped going to the gym because the anxiety is happening around people. What I have is definitely severe. Believe me- if there are natural alternatives that can help I am all for that.

[dragonz]

Forgot to add:

 

Peggy- I have had anxiety since I was around 8 or 9 years old- LONG before I ever took any antidepressant. I see your point but my symptoms of anxiety and depression have been around for decades. They did not appear after stopping an antidepressant.

[dalsaan]

You say your symptoms popped up in 2010 and you don't know why. Couldit be a delayed response to trauma. Sometimes significant life events (even positive ones) can trigger a seemingly dormant trauma response

 

Babette Rothschild has written an interesting book called the body remembers

 

In terms of your symptoms, have you tried magnesium for your tight muscles and fish oil.

 

My biggest issue with antidepressants is that they are treated like s magic bullet. In my experience there's not one fix, it takes a bagful of different strategies to turn things around.

 

These include testing to rule out different medical conditions, practices like meditation and mindfulness to better manage your thought processes and calm your nervous system, a good diet to avoid stimulants like sugar and alcohol and depressants like alcohol. Exercise to support your wellbeing and create a positive relationship to your body

 

Commitment to privileging your wellbeing by doing things that make you feel good and avoiding things that don't.

 

All of these things help, it's unlikely any would work in isolation. When you are in s bad way the best thing you can do us take getting better as a job and the most important one you have to do. You also need to stay in the drivers seat in your engagement with medical practitioners

 

I wish you all the best and hope you get something out of this site

 

Dalsaan

[alexjuice]

Hey dragonz,

 

This site contains much discussion on treatments for anxiety and depression. Also, the members here often share resources for many other maladies overlooked by the average doctor.

 

If I could you some advice...

 

1. Solutions to health problems are trickier than taking a pill, even if a pill bandaids the symptom of the health problem.

2. Your healthcare provider does not care as much about your health as you do and does not have the same commitment to it (time/resources) that you do.

3. Healthcare in developed countries, certainly the US, is devoted to managing symptoms. It's bandaid medicine with expensive bandaids. This isn't a conspiracy theory, but an understanding of reality.

4. Take the onus on yourself. You can start by adding an introduction thread on this site. Tell of your history and experience. Others may have ideas to share.

5. Get copies of your labs and look them up yourself. "Normal" is not healthy, it's a statistical reference range. Many people, on this site and elsewhere, can direct you to web resources to better learn interpret informatoin about YOUR BODY so that you can more fruitfully find solutions with a good healthcare provider.

 

Good luck.

 

Alex

[dragonz]

Hi Dalsaan,

 

I take Nordic Naturals Ultimate Omega- two tablets twice daily. I also take a multivitamin, separate B Complex as well as CALM Magnesium powder twice daily. I do agree sometimes doctors make antidepressants as magic bullets but I feel they can help in certain individuals. Not everyone benefits. I also feel they should not be used for years but to try to alleviate symptoms and then through proper psychotherapy get to the root of what was causing the symptoms in the first place.

[Jemima]

Forgot to add:

 

Peggy- I have had anxiety since I was around 8 or 9 years old- LONG before I ever took any antidepressant. I see your point but my symptoms of anxiety and depression have been around for decades. They did not appear after stopping an antidepressant.

 

That's all the more reason to suspect a chronic medical problem, such as a thyroid imbalance. I've known a few people in my lifetime who had the same experience as Karma - the intial TSH testing that was done did not detect a thyroid problem, but further testing did, and appropriate treatment cleared up their problems as much as medicine can. (Thanks to Karma for spelling out the details - all I could remember was that initial testing for thyroid imbalance often gives inaccurate results).

 

There are several people on this site who suffered from hormonal imbalances but were misdiagnosed and given antidepressants instead, and their experiences are not anything I would wish on anybody.

[dragonz]

"5. Get copies of your labs and look them up yourself. "Normal" is not healthy, it's a statistical reference range. Many people, on this site and elsewhere, can direct you to web resources to better learn interpret information about YOUR BODY so that you can more fruitfully find solutions with a good healthcare provider."

 

Alex,

 

What specific web sites are good to look at as far as interpreting information about my body. Kind of confused on what you meant.

[dragonz]

Jemima

 

So I'm assuming have the T3 Thyroid test performed by a competent endocrinologist, or what specifically?

[moonbow0202]

I've lost interest in so many things- even cooking or creative things. I want to go back to the gym, but my back is constantly "locked" in this muscle tension, when I work out my heart rate shoots up. I'm just tired of feeling this way- hopeless and I'm always sad.

 

First, let me reassure you that a 60 -100 bpm is considered a normal resting pulse.

 

I have been "helped " in the short term by antidepressants but I had no idea what the long term effects would be.

Your statement about lack of interest really hit home with me. Below you will find an excerpt from Peter Breggin's article Psychiatric drug-induced Chronic Brain Impairment (CBI):implications for long-term treatment with psychiatric medication.

 

(2) Apathy or loss of energy and vitality,often manifesting as indifference (“not caring”) and fatigue. The individual commonlyloses interest in creative activities, as well as other endeavors requiring

 

 

highermental processes, sensitivity to others, and spontaneity (Breggin 2011).

Below is a link to a thread about this article with a link to the article.

 

 

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2795-breggin-2011-psychiatric-drug-induced-chronic-brain-impairment-cbi-implications-for-long-term-treatment-with-psychiatric-medication/page__p__29489__hl__%2Bchronic+%2Bbrain__fromsearch__1#entry29489

 

Be warned, I cried when I read this article.

 

In regards to your back, I have some back issues and I found that once I got to a very low dose of effexor,my back was no longer constantly tied in knotts

[dragonz]

Effexor? That's an antidepressant. It's more than my back- my head feels like there's a tight band around it(tension headache), my legs get tight and my back is tight so that at times I can "count" my heart beats without touching my wrist. I can just feel my heart beating. As far as the apathy, I haven't used an antidepressant in years. The only ones long term I tried were Desipramine and Sinquan- in the 1980's. Funny- the TCA's do not have withdrawal syndrome like the SSRI's, and I wonder if there something to that group of AD's that causes it and not the tricyclics?

[dragonz]

Besides the muscle tension, the other annoying thing is daily derealization- basically anxiety where people and things seem "dreamy."

[Jemima]

Jemima

 

So I'm assuming have the T3 Thyroid test performed by a competent endocrinologist, or what specifically?

 

That's what I would do before considering an antidepressant.

[dragonz]

Also-Dalsaan,

 

My symptoms worsened in 2010. I never figured it out. Was at a gas station pumping gas and looked at some people at the bus stop and got like a panic attack- but would not go away. My heart kept pounding even an hour after and pulse was around 90. Mine is usually at 60, at rest. Eventually it went to 120bps and I stayed overnight at a local hospital, and they did different tests which all came back normal. The following afternoon, my pulse was around 72-76 and they released me. Since then I'm in this panic like state at times, because I remember how scary that event was.

 

Forgot to mention earlier this year I did a sleep study which showed mild-moderate sleep apnea. Odd, because I didn't do the sleep study expecting those results(apnea), I was just wondering why my sleep has been so bad for so many years with early(and frequent)morning awakenings and trouble falling back asleep. I'm using the CPAP machine now, which actually reduced these annoying PVC's(skipped heart beats), by around 98%. When I was getting the PVC's before though, the cardiologist said they're completely harmless, as he detected them on the EKG's performed.

[dalsaan]

Hi dragonz

 

Can I ask you to do a broad intro post that details your past symptoms, medication history and where you are at now. It's coming out on bits and pieces but would be good to have an intro

 

We can then give advice based on our experiences of dealing with different sumptoms, keeping in mind this is a site dedicated to supporting people coming off medication. This might not be what you want or need

 

Dalsaan

[Karma]

Hey Dragonz

 

Saw your PM, but for some reason I could not respond. So, I'll respond in your thread. I am not saying that a single test solved all of my problems. I did have chronic low-grade depression when I had a thyroid imbalance and I did have bouts of anxiety. But low B12, low vitamin D and low iron can all contribute to these conditions. The provider that manages my pmeds also prescribes T3-only thyroid treatment when they run labs and find that low T3 is causing depression and anxiety in their patients.

 

For clarity ... there is a total T3 and a Free T3 test ... You want the Free T3 because it will tell you how much of the active form of thyroid is available (unbound) in your blood stream. The total T3 includes what is bound and therefore not available for use by your cells combined with what is available - I've not found it to be very helpful.

 

Please read the thread I linked in my previous post, it includes more information on thyroid testing and links to web sites where you can learn more about thyroid issues and contributing factors - in fact, here is a good one: https://eaware.org/. I've also included some patient advocate sites in the thread because these are complicated issues that cannot be supported in this forum. (Do note that the patient advocate sites may be on break - these are such active sites that they have to take time off so their moderators are not overwhelmed, but if they are on break they will open within the week).

 

Once again, let me warn you that there is no silver bullet. I've had to spend hours educating myself and pushing my doctors for better treatment. Alex is right, start by getting copies of your labs and working with patient advocate sites to get more insight on the interpretation of those labs. Normal ranges are statistics ... you are a patient and your doctors need to care for your symptoms and complaints.

 

Hope something here is helpful.

 

Karma

[dragonz]

Thanks for the web link to the endocrine site. Will check it out. Not sure why you weren't able to send a message to my mailbox earlier.

[dragonz]

Dalsaan, where should I put my symptom history? Start it in a reply or how should I do it?

[Altostrata]

Just post it.

 

How's your daily exercise level? Do you ordinarily tend to worry a lot about your health?