s1335: Celexa (citalopram)

[Altostrata]

I would start tapering olanzepine as soon as possible, maybe 10% every few days, then the same with benztropine.

[s1335]

Ok Alto ill ask the doctor about this too. I think that if I get off of those meds ill be able to stabilize better to the Citalopram. They might be causing this dead pan emotion and slow thinking..it must be my nervous system adjusting when I'm suffering the deep sinking nervous depressive feeling.

 

Still anxious and panicky in the mornings..

[tezza]

S1335,

 

Anxiety and morning panic are often indications of withdrawal. You have already reduced the olanzopine and benztropine, both by 50%. If it were me, I wouldn't rush things too much from here.

[Altostrata]

tezza, s has been taking benztropine and olanzapine for less than a month. I suggest he go off fairly quickly before they become withdrawal problems. However, I also think 50% reductions are a bit too fast, that's why I suggested the 10% reductions.

I've been taking both Benztropine and Olanzopine for 2 weeks..they were given to me at the Psychiatric Hospital.

 

s1335, I have to be honest. I'm finding it very difficult to follow your symptoms and drug history. I've had to go back and read your entire topic several times. (You didn't even mention the benztropine and olanzapine until Feb 6.)

 

What I see is that you panic at Celexa withdrawal symptoms (or whatever they are) and do odd things with your medication dosages -- quitting, jumping up or down. You do this no matter what you hear here. We say go slow, you go fast. Then you freak out from your symptoms again.

 

The sinking feeling, fogginess etc. might be from Celexa withdrawal, but then again they could be side effects from benztropine and olanzapine. You may have added to them by cutting benztropine and olanzapine by too much.

 

If your symptoms have increased since cutting benztropine and olanzapine, don't rock the boat further with more precipitous cuts in medication.

 

The only way to figure out what is helping and what is hurting is by being systematic in your drug changes and seeing what happens. You're not allowing time for any of this. You also need to keep track of your daily symptom pattern.

 

I'm sorry about your symptoms but you have to take charge of your medication situation. Whatever symptoms you have, you'll have to deal with them.

[s1335]

Alto you are very right. I've been very rash in my decisions - I will reap and have reaped the consequences. As you've mentioned it makes it difficult to know what my symptoms are when I'm not systematic in how I deal with the meds.

 

I need to just shift one at a time. I will discuss the 10 percent reduction on Olanz with my doctor. Hope to be more responsible with my meds now.

[Rhiannon]

S13, everything you're describing, as far as what you're experiencing, is quite typical in psych drug withdrawal. I've seen it hundreds of times now, I think. I would recommend that you work on separating your feelings and urges from your actual actions, and learn not to act on the feelings. (It helps if you think of them as neuro-emotions--there's a lot on this forum about that concept.)

 

You're expecting way too much improvement way too fast. You seem to have the "I must do something, SOMEthing, ANYthing, fast, now" symptom, which is a typical way that anxiety manifests in withdrawal. Unfortunately the more you do, as far as changing meds, the more you worsen your already-screwed-up nervous system. Your body is struggling, struggling to balance itself. This is not something that can happen quickly.

 

Because of the drugs, your brain has responded by turning genes on and off, growing new cells, disabling old ones, creating new receptors and getting rid of old ones, in a desperate effort to keep itself functioning in balance in the face of the way the drugs screw with its chemistry. This is not something that can be fixed overnight, or quickly. Healing takes time. Getting genes off and others up and running takes time. Building receptors and getting them into place and removing others, and tweaking all of this until everything is working right (because there are myriad chemical feedback loops involved that all affect each other)--takes TIME.

 

It's like you have a broken foot and you're just tearing off the cast and twisting it into new positions over and over in an attempt to make it heal faster. It's not going to work. It needs time.

 

At this point I would say CHANGE NOTHING for a while. It may take a few months to get stable again, at which point you can begin a slow taper. Given how much your system has been destabilized already and how symptomatic you are, I would be planning on a very slow taper, at least at first.

[s1335]

Thank you Rhi..I definitely need to hear this. You're right that I am trying to do too much too fast. As Alto mentioned, the Olanzapine is something that should be tapered pretty soon since I haven't been on it very long but of course at a 10 percent taper over every few days.

 

I'm really messing this whole process up.. I'm sure if I would have listened earlier to stabilize at 20mg before going up to 40mg it would have been much better. I'm sorry guys I'm just so desperate. Hopefully I'll learn from this :L

 

Thank you for sticking with me through this though. You have all been an incredible outlet. I am blessed to have this forum to talk openly about all of this and have your encouragement and reminders. THANK YOU!!

[Altostrata]

s, I'm worried that if you make big changes, you'll get dramatic symptoms and land in the hospital again, where they'll dose you with a bunch of drugs. (They really should have just reinstated citalopram, which shows you how little they know about withdrawal syndrome.)

 

Please be careful. Going into the hospital often causes more harm to people with withdrawal syndrome.

[s1335]

Alto, very true. Hopefully ill be wiser here in the future.

[s1335]

Going to my psychiatrist today to discuss what we've talked about and about my symptoms. Thanks again for all your insights and helps. We'll see how this goes.

 

Currently my symptom pattern has been: nervous anxious feeling, sinking feeling in chest, lack of motivation - some classic depression symptoms with anxiety. Still been taking the Citalopram 40 mg, Benztropine 1 mg and Olanzepine 2.5 mg at night.

[Altostrata]

What does your psychiatrist know about severe Celexa withdrawal symptoms, have you discussed this?

[s1335]

Thank you for the support. I shared my symptoms and we have decided to have me stay on Olanzepine for now, but I will now longer take the Benztropine. No other changes.

 

As you all know, I guess a lot if my anxiety is due to my impatience. I am having a hard time waiting on the dosage.

 

Thanks again!

[tezza]

Hi s1335,

 

I hope you get adjusted to the changes without any more issues.

[s1335]

Thanks Tezza. Alto, my psychiatrist does know about my symptoms but also as you all have been trying to tell me thinks I need to be patient allow the medication to restabilize. I guess I just feel so stuck in this feeling of depression and fatigue.

 

He also considered possibly in the future either switching the antidepressant or adding another one. I've never had to do this in the past (except for the recent addition of Olanzepine). I am forgetting things so easily, just forgot about a doc appointment today. My mind is just so fixed on how I'm not feeling myself.

[s1335]

I am also dwelling on the experiences leading up to and going to the mental hospital. I wonder if things will ever be the same.

[s1335]

During withdrawal does anyone experience having these cycles of fears of patterns that you can't seem to break? For instance I deal with being too much of a people pleaser quite often, but now all I can think about is how badly I am a people pleaser and how ill never break the cycle.

 

Is it common that during the window and wave pattern of restabilization that one focuses inordinately on problems? Does anyone else experience this?

 

Thanks again

[tezza]

Hi s,

 

Yes, I went through what you are experiencing and I stayed there for what seemed like a long time. I needed to be assured constantly that it would get better.

 

I constantly had negative thoughts. I dwelt on things of the past like regrets and shame. I felt very worthless and so hopeless. I've read on this site that others also went through the same, it does seem common in WD for some people to feel this way.

 

I remember Alto telling me to 'change the channel'. You are not your thoughts, you actually 'own' your thoughts. That puts you 'in charge' of them. It's difficult, I know, I've been there.

 

I would walk in my back yard and I would envision times when my children were in the pool or a cook-out, just to try to have good thoughts in my mind.

 

You have to do this 'on purpose', intentionally.

 

Hugs,

 

Tezza

[Altostrata]

Thank you for the support. I shared my symptoms and we have decided to have me stay on Olanzepine for now, but I will now longer take the Benztropine. No other changes.

 

As you all know, I guess a lot if my anxiety is due to my impatience. I am having a hard time waiting on the dosage.

 

Thanks again!

 

s, what instructions did your doctor give you for tapering benztropine?

 

 

Thanks Tezza. Alto, my psychiatrist does know about my symptoms but also as you all have been trying to tell me thinks I need to be patient allow the medication to restabilize. I guess I just feel so stuck in this feeling of depression and fatigue.

 

He also considered possibly in the future either switching the antidepressant or adding another one. I've never had to do this in the past (except for the recent addition of Olanzepine). I am forgetting things so easily, just forgot about a doc appointment today. My mind is just so fixed on how I'm not feeling myself.

 

To me, this means he is treating a psychiatric condition, not withdrawal syndrome, and you will be on a merry-go-round of drugs for many years.

[s1335]

 

Thank you for the support. I shared my symptoms and we have decided to have me stay on Olanzepine for now, but I will now longer take the Benztropine. No other changes.

 

As you all know, I guess a lot if my anxiety is due to my impatience. I am having a hard time waiting on the dosage.

 

Thanks again!

 

s, what instructions did your doctor give you for tapering benztropine?

 

 

Thanks Tezza. Alto, my psychiatrist does know about my symptoms but also as you all have been trying to tell me thinks I need to be patient allow the medication to restabilize. I guess I just feel so stuck in this feeling of depression and fatigue.

 

He also considered possibly in the future either switching the antidepressant or adding another one. I've never had to do this in the past (except for the recent addition of Olanzepine). I am forgetting things so easily, just forgot about a doc appointment today. My mind is just so fixed on how I'm not feeling myself.

 

To me, this means he is treating a psychiatric condition, not withdrawal syndrome, and you will be on a merry-go-round of drugs for many years.

 

What I really should do is stabilize at my current dose? The Benztropine was at 1 mg and he said that it was ok to stop taking it since it was at a small amount and I didn't have any problems with rigidity in my muscles since the Haldol experience.

[Altostrata]

s, given your severe withdrawal reaction, which demonstrates sensitivity to dosage changes and may have further sensitized your nervous system, do you think just quitting benztropine is the best course for you?

 

What results have you had from cold turkey in the past?

 

1mg seems like a small amount but all drugs are dosed differently and this is a normal dose of benztropine. How about at least decreasing by a quarter of a tablet a week?

 

You must think of taking care of yourself instead of abandoning responsibility to doctors.

[s1335]

Hello all, still waking with the dread feeling in the mornings and obsessing over fearful thoughts. I am still on Olanzapine and Celexa at the same dosages. I find myself wandering in my mind and getting fatigued in social situations because of my overanalyzation of everything around me. Very odd stuff. I am just anxious about this passing over...it seems like it has been long enough for this to be merely a medication problem. I think my thinking patterns are definitely unhealthy.

[Altostrata]

There are ways you can change your patterns of thinking. See Non-drug techniques to cope with emotional symptoms

[s1335]

Well, an update concerning symptoms:

 

Still feel like my emotions are dead. Motivation and excitement seem to have escaped me. Dread of people and social interactions, slow thinking...

 

It has been almost two months since i've reinstated to my regular 40 mg dose of Citalopram and am on 2.5 mg of Olanzapine. Any insights on whether this length of time is normal or not? I am finding it easy to obsess over fears that I have that I normally would not be bothered by.

 

Thanks again for allowing me to dump these thoughts somewhere..It is a blessing to have you all as a listening ear and for helpful insight! Happy Easter.

[Meimeiquest]

I really just have my limited experience to share with you. If you want to fight for living without meds, I think you have to give up the.goal/need of feeling anything good in the short run (it's always nice to be surprised). Then you decide if anxiety or depression is more painful, and start with tapering the drug that will release the least of that worst symptom. If you have needed to go into the hospital and have Haldol, you may need to hang onto the Zyprexa till last. If you needed to go into the hospital, you probably need to taper more slowly than you think.. Then hopefully the bad emotions will surface with a low enough intensity that they are avenues for growth instead of destruction. People make solutions all the time to make small dose changes, but I've decided to go with professional compounding as I am not always in the best place cognitively when it would be time to make the solution. These are my thoughts from having already screwed up a taper when I found this site. I don't think it has to be as hard if you start right from the beginning.

[Altostrata]

Lack of motivation and emotional anesthesia can result from the effect of the drugs, or from withdrawal syndrome.

 

That may not change any time soon.

 

How are your other symptoms? How are you sleeping?

[s1335]

Alto, I have been sleeping very well. No problems there. Just feel dead inside and cannot seem to process things very well. I am forgetting things very easily, can't remember simple things that have happened throughout the day. Kind of have this feeling of being stuck inside of my head. I've been back at 40 mg Citalopram for almost a solid 3 months..

 

I think a lot of this could be because I have done so many foolish things - just keep on making stupid mistakes and making bad decisions. Then I obsess over why and how I could be so foolish. Worried about being around people and saying stupid things. I used to be a social person. It also could be because I shut down in front of all of my coworkers - feel like I've let them down bigtime by moving all the way from Canada back to the states again..

[Altostrata]

Try to forgive yourself for your flaws, s. This will be a good skill to have when you're off Celexa, too.

 

Good to hear you're sleeping well.

 

Do you want to try reducing Celexa again?

[Jemima]

IMO, there is something about withdrawal that magnifies our flaws in our own minds. I remember having really tormenting thoughts about occasions when I believed I'd done something not quite right or something socially awkward. Of course, most of us on this forum got onto antidepressants because we were depressed, and emphasizing the negative is a hallmark of depression-prone people.

 

This is one area where withdrawal can teach us something. Alto is right on about forgiving ourselves for our flaws and mistakes. It's part of the human condition to stumble again and again.

[s1335]

Try to forgive yourself for your flaws, s. This will be a good skill to have when you're off Celexa, too.

 

Good to hear you're sleeping well.

 

Do you want to try reducing Celexa again?

 

I think I want to try and just get back to normal again..tired of the constant drain of the depression. Would love to have a clear mind again before reducing...

[s1335]

Been having a hard time focusing on anything..anyone else have this?

 

This is why I'm making so many mistakes and forgetting things so easily. I am just so caught up in thinking about how I've messed up and how ill never be able to face confrontation. I wonder if ill ever grow up! Any advice? I have such a hard time with people pleasing. To the point that I am desperate if I think someone doesn't like me. It's a horrible habit.

[Meimeiquest]

I was extremely clumsy and forgetful, and had dark thoughts, coming off olanzepine. I'm still overly reactive to things that illici emotion...dealing with a friend being REALLY mad at my husband...he totally went off on my husband, and, unknown to him, I heard it all. I am learning, among other things, to move slowly...feel the emotion of the moment, but wait to make movement. But mostly just be patient with yourself. I feel like I did not grow at all as a person during the Zyprexa years.

[s1335]

Currently I am just going into dazes, forgetting everything, and feeling like my brain has gone blank. Everything goes in one ear and out the other! I feel like a little child immature and simple..

[s1335]

I was extremely clumsy and forgetful, and had dark thoughts, coming off olanzepine. I'm still overly reactive to things that illici emotion...dealing with a friend being REALLY mad at my husband...he totally went off on my husband, and, unknown to him, I heard it all. I am learning, among other things, to move slowly...feel the emotion of the moment, but wait to make movement. But mostly just be patient with yourself. I feel like I did not grow at all as a person during the Zyprexa years.

 

Zyprexa might be doing all of this to me too..I just can't seem to focus in addition to the above post's symptoms.

 

I keep thinking that this is some kind of hardened bitter heart of mine, but perhaps the meds are affecting my judgment? I am obsessing over fear of confrontation. I can't seem to shake it and I am losing touch with reality. Anyone else experience this?

[Meimeiquest]

It probably seems like forever ago, but you were just recently hospitalized...I think it will take awhile for everything to straighten out. I could have been hospitalized in 2006 for what was actually a CT withdrawal from Cymbalta 4 months prior. I was put on multiple meds, and even though it seems the lithium worked well, it took me quite awhile to get myself straightened out. I had obsessive thoughts about a guy I dated in college...bizarre. Then at Christmas this past year I finally realized what was wrong, and how it also carried over into my marriage. I just prayed for him...I have no idea if he's even still alive, Then .i talked to my husband. And then it was gone. I had not seen the guy for over 20 years when this started, and yet there was a tiny kernel of truth. So based on my tiny experience, I'd be open to new insight, but not really expecting it at this stage of the journey. But it will come in time.

[Meimeiquest]

And I can't focus even now. Which is why I am posting instead of living my real life right now!

[s1335]

Does it take this long to readjust to medication?