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Tips for tapering off Zyprexa (olanzapine)


Altostrata

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13 hours ago, hayduke said:

 

We've already established that you were able to withdraw more quickly than most people.  We can't generalise from your experience.  We also haven't seen how things go for you long term yet, and advise caution.

Please don't generalise from your own experience on that basis.

You are correct, I am still in the early stages of recovery. I should have referred to the research from Harrow (2012), which shows that there is an incentive to taper faster if the individual has been on the drug less than 3 years and that can lead to better long-term outcomes. 

2021 Oct 10mg Olanzapine, 2022 Mar 5mg, 2022 Nov 2.5mg, 2023 Jan 1.25mg, 2023 April .7mg, 2023 July .4mg, 2023 September .2mg, 2023 October .12mg 2023 25 October 2023 .03mg 4 December 2023 0.00mg

 

«Les hommes de génie sont des météores destinés à brûler pour éclairer leur siècle. »1766

 

Napoléon BONAPARTE

 

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5 hours ago, kinetic said:

You are correct, I am still in the early stages of recovery. I should have referred to the research from Harrow (2012), which shows that there is an incentive to taper faster if the individual has been on the drug less than 3 years and that can lead to better long-term outcomes. 

 

There may be an incentive to start to go off earlier but this does not mean to taper faster. Speeding up the taper of an antipsychotic can land you right back in the hospital at square one.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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2 hours ago, Altostrata said:

 

There may be an incentive to start to go off earlier but this does not mean to taper faster. Speeding up the taper of an antipsychotic can land you right back in the hospital at square one.

Respectfully, it does not seem to me that Kinetick (based on his signature) went off the AP is some really haphazard fashion. Maybe it was a little quicker at points, but not much.

 

I find there are conflicting messages presented on this site. In the "Why to taper by 10%" thread, it is stated that one can slowly and carefully speed up one's taper if one is not experiencing withdrawal symptoms after cuts. But then when people do speed up, it is implied that they "may have problems down the line", even after cessation of the drug. Well, if it is the case that we can all just, out of nowhere, with no warning in the form of withdrawal symptoms during the taper, just enter withdrawal hell, even months after cessation, or fall into psychosis due to dopamine supersensitivity ... well I guess we're all screwed.

Definitely those people that experience withdrawal symptoms after cuts, no matter how small, cannot possibly be spared from this fate. Consider a person cutting 15% per month, like myself, who experiences no symptoms, and another who is cutting at 4% per month, but experiences terrible symptoms at each cut. Is it more likely the former or the latter is going to experience some kind of protracted withdrawal after cessation? ... and are we to tell the person cutting 4% to slow down even more? ... I don't know the answer to these questions just thinking aloud here.

 

I am tapering this same drug, and have, in the spirit of the forum and the above-mentioned thread, sped up in a cautious way, and intend to continue to do so. I've never experienced psychosis and was put on the drug for idiotic reasons. I'm cutting 5% every 10 days, and intend to, at some point cut 5% every 8 days, and see how it goes. The "Why taper by 10%" thread has been my guide, and if the advice given here is not correct, it should be amended:

 

  • Initially, make a 10% reduction and hold there for a MONTH. It can take several weeks for withdrawal symptoms to emerge. Do that again the second month.
  • If you have very minor or no symptoms from these 2 reductions, you can try reducing by 10% (calculated on the last dosage) every 3 weeks. Do that twice. If no problems, reduce by 10% every 2 weeks. Do that twice.
  • If no problems after 4.5 months of very gradual reduction, you may be able to reduce by 10% every week.
  • If significant withdrawal symptoms appear, make smaller cuts or go slower. Listen to your body.

 

If one were to taper by the endgame rate proposed here (10% per week), that person would be tapering quite a bit faster than Kinetick's pace, I believe.

Olanzapine (5mg) started June 2023 - This is the only drug I'm currently taking, haven't used any other psych drugs.

After 4 weeks dropped to 2.5mg for 5 days then dropped to 1.25mg for 3 days, withdrawals commenced. I then took a single dose of 3.75mg. Then went to 2.5mg. since July 19

Hoping to hold at 2.5mg  and GODWILLING I will STABILIZE.

I can't tell WD symptoms from Long Covid symptoms. I think a bit of both, and I think my quick earlier taper has made the LC symptoms worse ... what to do.

Update: Sept 28 2023: -2.5%   Oct 5: -2.5%   Oct 12: -2.5%   Oct 19: -5%   Oct 29: -5%   Nov 10: -5%  2.0mg  Nov 20:  -5%  1.9mg  Nov 30:  -5%  1.8mg  Dec 12:  1.75mg   Dec 22: 1.70mg

Dec 29: 1.65mg Jan 06/24: 1.60mg  Jan 14: 1.55mg Jan 25: 1.50mg   Feb 12: Updose to 1.55mg

(percentage drops are from previous dose)

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4 minutes ago, N2deep said:

Respectfully, it does not seem to me that Kinetick (based on his signature) went off the AP is some really haphazard fashion. Maybe it was a little quicker at points, but not much.

 

I find there are conflicting messages presented on this site. In the "Why to taper by 10%" thread, it is stated that one can slowly and carefully speed up one's taper if one is not experiencing withdrawal symptoms after cuts. But then when people do speed up, it is implied that they "may have problems down the line", even after cessation of the drug. Well, if it is the case that we can all just, out of nowhere, with no warning in the form of withdrawal symptoms during the taper, just enter withdrawal hell, even months after cessation, or fall into psychosis due to dopamine supersensitivity ... well I guess we're all screwed.

Definitely those people that experience withdrawal symptoms after cuts, no matter how small, cannot possibly be spared from this fate. Consider a person cutting 15% per month, like myself, who experiences no symptoms, and another who is cutting at 4% per month, but experiences terrible symptoms at each cut. Is it more likely the former or the latter is going to experience some kind of protracted withdrawal after cessation? ... and are we to tell the person cutting 4% to slow down even more? ... I don't know the answer to these questions just thinking aloud here.

 

I am tapering this same drug, and have, in the spirit of the forum and the above-mentioned thread, sped up in a cautious way, and intend to continue to do so. I've never experienced psychosis and was put on the drug for idiotic reasons. I'm cutting 5% every 10 days, and intend to, at some point cut 5% every 8 days, and see how it goes. The "Why taper by 10%" thread has been my guide, and if the advice given here is not correct, it should be amended:

 

  • Initially, make a 10% reduction and hold there for a MONTH. It can take several weeks for withdrawal symptoms to emerge. Do that again the second month.
  • If you have very minor or no symptoms from these 2 reductions, you can try reducing by 10% (calculated on the last dosage) every 3 weeks. Do that twice. If no problems, reduce by 10% every 2 weeks. Do that twice.
  • If no problems after 4.5 months of very gradual reduction, you may be able to reduce by 10% every week.
  • If significant withdrawal symptoms appear, make smaller cuts or go slower. Listen to your body.

 

If one were to taper by the endgame rate proposed here (10% per week), that person would be tapering quite a bit faster than Kinetick's pace, I believe.

 

We've always allowed for the fact that some people can go faster, usually when they haven't been on a drug for very long.  However, it would be terrible general advice to start faster than 10%/mo as that is a safe baseline for most people.

 

Listening to your body is something we always advise.  If you can go faster and stay safe, you're one of the lucky ones.  That's a matter for the individual to ascertain.  Also reminding you that many people have to go slower than 10%/mo.

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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People who never had psychosis can develop symptoms that look like psychosis from going off any psychiatric drug, but this risk is particularly significant when the drug is an antipsychotic. This is explained several times earlier in this topic.

 

The severe antipsychotic withdrawal phenomenon is called dopamine supersensitivity psychosis, you could look it up.

 

Harrow 2012 should not be interpreted as tapering instructions. Rather, it says that going off or minimizing an antipsychotic earlier in treatment rather than later results in better outcomes.

 

Some people can taper faster than others with no ill effects. We cannot predict who can do this. Quite often, withdrawal problems occur in the second half of the taper, when the dosage is lower.

 

We have many people here with prior psychosis who felt confident they could go off faster because the early part of the taper went well, who ended up hospitalized and on larger doses and more drugs than they ever took before.

 

Speed up your antipsychotic taper at your own risk. We probably will not be able to help you if you end up remedicated. Good luck.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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Hi everyone, you may or may not know that caffeine alters levels of olanzapine in your bloodstream. I used to be able to drink differing amounts of caffeine without issues but then during my Valium taper I tried to switch to olanzapine orodispersible (wafer) and this sensitized me like crazy and now I have to carefully weigh out my caffeine every day to ensure I am getting the same amount. If I don’t, the fluctuating level of olanzapine causes really bad insomnia for me. Needless to say, I had to go back to the solid olanzapine tablet. It is coming up to 2 years off valium and I’d like to start tapering off olanzapine soon. My question is, am I likely to get terrible insomnia each time I make a reduction now that my system is so sensitive to fluctuations? I’m really worried that I won’t even be able to taper a tiny amount without issues 

Mid June 2019 to mid November 2019 - Escitalopram (Lexapro) 20mg (3 week taper - psych advise) 

Reinstated 2.5mg Lexapro 3rd Jan 2020 

Increased Lexapro dose to 5mg (0.06g) 11th Jan 2020 due to continual WD symptoms, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.05g 7th March 2020, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.04g 7th April 2020, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.03g 7th May 2020

Mid June 2019 to 14 Jul 2020 - Clonazepam 0.5mg 

Pericyazine (Neulactil) 20mg 24th Jun 2020 - 12th July, down to 15mg 13th July - 19th July, down to 10mg 20th July - 26th July, reinstated 15mg Pericyazine 27 July 2020 - Accidentally took 20mg for 2 nights 5 &6/8/20, CT Pericyazine 14th Sept 2020 (Psych CT and replaced with Olanzapine) 

20mg Lexapro - 16th May 2020 - 9th Sept 2020 (Psych CT and replaced with Nortriptyline) 

10mg Diazepam - 5 Aug 2020, reduced over weeks to 7mg Tuesday 29 September, updosed to 8mg 2nd October 2020, started reducing by 0.5mg every two weeks - first reduction 12th December 2020, final dose on 18th March 2022 (off valium!)

125mg Nortriptyline - 10 Sept 2020 - Current 

5mg Olanzapine - 15th Sept 2020 - 29 Sept 2020, reduced to 2.5mg on 30 Sept 2020, back up to 5.0mg on 5th Oct 2020. Reduced to 4.750 on 9 Nov 2020, back up to 5mg Olanzapine sometime in January 2021 (current)

Supplements: beef liver, fish oil, vitamin D, zinc, iron every 2nd day

 

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2 hours ago, Nicjk said:

Hi everyone, you may or may not know that caffeine alters levels of olanzapine in your bloodstream. I used to be able to drink differing amounts of caffeine without issues but then during my Valium taper I tried to switch to olanzapine orodispersible (wafer) and this sensitized me like crazy and now I have to carefully weigh out my caffeine every day to ensure I am getting the same amount. If I don’t, the fluctuating level of olanzapine causes really bad insomnia for me. Needless to say, I had to go back to the solid olanzapine tablet. It is coming up to 2 years off valium and I’d like to start tapering off olanzapine soon. My question is, am I likely to get terrible insomnia each time I make a reduction now that my system is so sensitive to fluctuations? I’m really worried that I won’t even be able to taper a tiny amount without issues 


Have you considered tapering off caffeine?  It's not always easy but it definitely helped my taper.  I cross blended it with decaf until I was only on decaf.

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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5 minutes ago, hayduke said:


Have you considered tapering off caffeine?  It's not always easy but it definitely helped my taper.  I cross blended it with decaf until I was only on decaf.

Hi @hayduke I have come off caffeine in the past without issues but it’s one of the only joys I have left in life so I’d rather keep having it. I am very used to weighing it out every day. Do you think I will have issues reducing Olanzapine because of how sensitive I am to dose changes? 

Mid June 2019 to mid November 2019 - Escitalopram (Lexapro) 20mg (3 week taper - psych advise) 

Reinstated 2.5mg Lexapro 3rd Jan 2020 

Increased Lexapro dose to 5mg (0.06g) 11th Jan 2020 due to continual WD symptoms, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.05g 7th March 2020, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.04g 7th April 2020, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.03g 7th May 2020

Mid June 2019 to 14 Jul 2020 - Clonazepam 0.5mg 

Pericyazine (Neulactil) 20mg 24th Jun 2020 - 12th July, down to 15mg 13th July - 19th July, down to 10mg 20th July - 26th July, reinstated 15mg Pericyazine 27 July 2020 - Accidentally took 20mg for 2 nights 5 &6/8/20, CT Pericyazine 14th Sept 2020 (Psych CT and replaced with Olanzapine) 

20mg Lexapro - 16th May 2020 - 9th Sept 2020 (Psych CT and replaced with Nortriptyline) 

10mg Diazepam - 5 Aug 2020, reduced over weeks to 7mg Tuesday 29 September, updosed to 8mg 2nd October 2020, started reducing by 0.5mg every two weeks - first reduction 12th December 2020, final dose on 18th March 2022 (off valium!)

125mg Nortriptyline - 10 Sept 2020 - Current 

5mg Olanzapine - 15th Sept 2020 - 29 Sept 2020, reduced to 2.5mg on 30 Sept 2020, back up to 5.0mg on 5th Oct 2020. Reduced to 4.750 on 9 Nov 2020, back up to 5mg Olanzapine sometime in January 2021 (current)

Supplements: beef liver, fish oil, vitamin D, zinc, iron every 2nd day

 

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44 minutes ago, Nicjk said:

Hi @hayduke I have come off caffeine in the past without issues but it’s one of the only joys I have left in life so I’d rather keep having it. I am very used to weighing it out every day. Do you think I will have issues reducing Olanzapine because of how sensitive I am to dose changes? 


If you are still feeling that much nervous system sensitisation from your previous taper, it might be better to wait until you're feeling steadier before beginning another one.

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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2 hours ago, hayduke said:


If you are still feeling that much nervous system sensitisation from your previous taper, it might be better to wait until you're feeling steadier before beginning another one.

It’s not from my previous taper - it’s from when I tried to switch to the wafer version of my drug and it majorly sensitised me to every small fluctuation of the drug. Do you think this is something that could heal?

Mid June 2019 to mid November 2019 - Escitalopram (Lexapro) 20mg (3 week taper - psych advise) 

Reinstated 2.5mg Lexapro 3rd Jan 2020 

Increased Lexapro dose to 5mg (0.06g) 11th Jan 2020 due to continual WD symptoms, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.05g 7th March 2020, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.04g 7th April 2020, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.03g 7th May 2020

Mid June 2019 to 14 Jul 2020 - Clonazepam 0.5mg 

Pericyazine (Neulactil) 20mg 24th Jun 2020 - 12th July, down to 15mg 13th July - 19th July, down to 10mg 20th July - 26th July, reinstated 15mg Pericyazine 27 July 2020 - Accidentally took 20mg for 2 nights 5 &6/8/20, CT Pericyazine 14th Sept 2020 (Psych CT and replaced with Olanzapine) 

20mg Lexapro - 16th May 2020 - 9th Sept 2020 (Psych CT and replaced with Nortriptyline) 

10mg Diazepam - 5 Aug 2020, reduced over weeks to 7mg Tuesday 29 September, updosed to 8mg 2nd October 2020, started reducing by 0.5mg every two weeks - first reduction 12th December 2020, final dose on 18th March 2022 (off valium!)

125mg Nortriptyline - 10 Sept 2020 - Current 

5mg Olanzapine - 15th Sept 2020 - 29 Sept 2020, reduced to 2.5mg on 30 Sept 2020, back up to 5.0mg on 5th Oct 2020. Reduced to 4.750 on 9 Nov 2020, back up to 5mg Olanzapine sometime in January 2021 (current)

Supplements: beef liver, fish oil, vitamin D, zinc, iron every 2nd day

 

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2 hours ago, Nicjk said:

It’s not from my previous taper - it’s from when I tried to switch to the wafer version of my drug and it majorly sensitised me to every small fluctuation of the drug. Do you think this is something that could heal?

 

I've never experienced difficulty changing from solids to liquids or between brands of generic but a lot of people report it.

 

Usually sensitisation settles down when you stop making changes to methods and dosages and hold for a while.  As caffeine is a stimulant, it may be contributing to the mix. 

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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1 minute ago, Svie said:

Hello all.

 

I´m one of those who are sensitive to cuts.

I want to continue my taper from my current dose at 2.5mg

I´m thinking of doing the taper with dry tablets, 10%/ month then at half the dose, which should take 6 months, switch to liquid and do 5% cuts each 2 weeks.

Does this sound good?


As long as you remember to hold when you get signs that your body needs to catch up.

Have you looked at the brassmonkey slide taper?
 

 

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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26 minutes ago, hayduke said:


As long as you remember to hold when you get signs that your body needs to catch up.

Have you looked at the brassmonkey slide taper?
 

 

Thanks for the reply. I do find it difficult judging the symptoms wether or not they are normal and will go away or if the body have issues catching up. I think ill get symptoms no matter what though. And the hard thing about dry tablet taper is to cut smaller than 10%. My plan was to do smaller segments (with liquid) at about half the dosage. Not sure if i want to go liquid right away.

 

At my earlier attempts i had to hold for many months and still could not recover.

Medicine: Olanzapine 2017-06: 10mg

2017-08 @10mg. Taper 25% every 3 weeks .2017-11:  2.5mg (1 tablet) Staying put. Completely stabilized.

2018-09:  2.5mg 2018-09 Taper 25% every 2 weeks

2018-11 0.625 milligrams. PA´s started so held on for 3 months. 2019-02 Taper 33% every 3 weeks.

2019-04 Too much tapering. Back to 0.625 milligrams

2019- 06 Taper slower this time: 10% every 2 weeks

2019-09 0.15625 milligrams 

2020-03: Too much taper. Back to 0.625 milligrams 2020: 04 Too destabilized, back to 0.83 milligrams

2021-03 Too destabilized still, back to 1100 milligrams 2021-07 Holding

2022-11-03 Full dose reinstated at 2.5mg. Holding

Supplements: Mag/cal/zink citrate. Omega 3. Vit D 5000 ui/day

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Do not continue to taper if you get withdrawal symptoms from a reduction. Another reduction is likely to make the withdrawal symptoms worse.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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On 12/9/2023 at 3:57 PM, Altostrata said:

 

There may be an incentive to start to go off earlier but this does not mean to taper faster. Speeding up the taper of an antipsychotic can land you right back in the hospital at square one.

This risk can be minimized as long as the individual is following an informed tapering guide based on receptor occupancy like Horowitz (2021), and may not require half a decade to accomplish a favorable outcome.  I must caution, the fear of the hospital could take away the placebo effect, which has been shown to have a powerful effect on the brain (Leopold 2021). Logically to get from point A (say 10mg, the standard starting dose of Olanzapine) to point B (my proposed endpoint of 0.03mg or the absolute minimum proposed by Horowitz of 0.06mg), then one will have to find a way to taper faster than 10% per month of the previous dose in order to enjoy to benefits of better long-term outcomes suggested by Harlow (2012), which is basically a three-year window. The math will show that it will take 5-6 years to taper at the rate suggested by SA, which is tragic for someone who just got on the drug. It means they might have missed that window of opportunity for a better long-term outcome. If withdrawal symptoms occur, it is not likely to be severe when following a well-informed tapering guide. Brandt, Bschor, Henssler, Müller, Hasan, Heinz, and Gutwinski (2020) note "The studies in our review (8, 23–26) reported that most withdrawal symptoms started within 4 weeks after abrupt antipsychotic discontinuation and subsided after up to 4 weeks even though certain symptoms such as hyperkinesia may last for months (23)." If one understands that the majority of withdrawal symptoms are temporary, then that knowledge could serve as a relief to that individual. As the individual learns better non-drug techniques to manage withdrawals symptoms as they come along, then that individual will likely be better prepared to manage future challenges. Thus, in my opinion, withdrawal symptoms do not have to be feared, but rather viewed as a learning experience. For example, insomnia does not have to be perceived as a "waste of time", but instead an opportunity to reflect about what went wrong in that particular day and how to improve the next day. Why run away from your emotions when you can embrace them? 

2021 Oct 10mg Olanzapine, 2022 Mar 5mg, 2022 Nov 2.5mg, 2023 Jan 1.25mg, 2023 April .7mg, 2023 July .4mg, 2023 September .2mg, 2023 October .12mg 2023 25 October 2023 .03mg 4 December 2023 0.00mg

 

«Les hommes de génie sont des météores destinés à brûler pour éclairer leur siècle. »1766

 

Napoléon BONAPARTE

 

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Is that so? Harrow 2012 said nothing about how to taper, that's your interpretation.

 

Tapering hyperbolically also requires an observation period between steps. It's no guarantee that at any step, you may experience withdrawal symptoms that may delay your next reduction. While the initial reductions may be larger compared to an exponential taper, it may not be faster.

 

1 hour ago, kinetic said:

The math will show that it will take 5-6 years to taper at the rate suggested by SA, which is tragic for someone who just got on the drug. It means they might have missed that window of opportunity for a better long-term outcome.

 

Yes, it is tragic. There are a lot of things that are tragic about the widespread prescription of psychotropics. You should realize that the so-called 3-year window is an average and not a law of nature.

 

1 hour ago, kinetic said:

 

"The studies in our review (8, 23–26) reported that most withdrawal symptoms started within 4 weeks after abrupt antipsychotic discontinuation and subsided after up to 4 weeks even though certain symptoms such as hyperkinesia may last for months (23)." If one understands that the majority of withdrawal symptoms are temporary, then that knowledge could serve as a relief to that individual.

 

Look around you. This site is full of people who went off too fast and for whom that knowledge is no comfort.

 

You seem determined to communicate to everyone reading this thread that they can go off olanzapine faster. Perhaps you can start your own peer counseling organization and take on the responsibility of people tapering according to your ideas.

 

Feel free to taper any way you want. If you run into problems, we may not be able to help you dig out. Maybe Harrow,  Brandt, Bschor, Henssler, Müller, Hasan, Heinz, or Gutwinski could rescue you. Good luck.

 

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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On 12/9/2023 at 3:51 PM, Nicjk said:

Hi everyone, you may or may not know that caffeine alters levels of olanzapine in your bloodstream.

OMG, wish I'd known this when I was on this one! The things they don't tell us when handing out these 'scripts. Wonder how much caffeine affects the ones I'm on now... surely makes Wellbutrin hit a bit harder with anxiety and jitters.

Pronouns: they/them/theirs 

Started on Prozac in early 2000s to treat cPTSD, been on various cocktails ever since.

2002-2004, 2017-2022: Buspar, tapered down to 0

2016-present: 100mg Seroquel for sleep -> May 2023: 90mg -> June 2023: 81mg -> September 2023: 72mg -> switched to brand name, much too strong, down to 60mg -> October 2023: 54mg -> November 2023: 50mg -> January 2024: 45mg -> April 2024: 40.5mg

2016-Present: 100mg Wellbutrin SR -> January 2023: 75mg IR (37.5mg 2x a day) -> February 2023 (33.75mg 2x a day) -> July 2023 (30.37mg 2x a day) -> August 2023: 27.33mg 2x a day 

2018-present: 25mg Pristiq

2015-present: 600mg Gabapentin (200mg 3x a day) -> December 2022: 300mg Gabapentin (100mg 3x a day) per GP's recommendation after side effects -> March 2023: 90mg 3x a day (switched to liquid suspension) -> April 2023: 81mg 3x a day -> September 2023: bad generic, switched back to homemade liquid; too strong after bad generic, down to 70mg 3x a day, still bad. Adjusted slowly till at 60mg 3x a day, much better. Long hold till -> December 2023: 54mg, still feels too high after November Seroquel switch from brand name to generic, doc recommended 50mg which feels better -> January 2024: When Wellbutrin went down, Gabapentin started putting me to sleep, went down to 45mg, then 41mg to stay awake, so far so good -> February 2024: 36mg, still too high, 34mg -> March 2024: 31mg, STILL too high, 30mg

Supplements: Multivitamin w/magnesium, probiotics, digestive enzymes, anti-viral nitric oxide nose spray as needed

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18 hours ago, Altostrata said:

Is that so? Harrow 2012 said nothing about how to taper, that's your interpretation.

 

Tapering hyperbolically also requires an observation period between steps. It's no guarantee that at any step, you may experience withdrawal symptoms that may delay your next reduction. While the initial reductions may be larger compared to an exponential taper, it may not be faster.

 

 

Yes, it is tragic. There are a lot of things that are tragic about the widespread prescription of psychotropics. You should realize that the so-called 3-year window is an average and not a law of nature.

 

 

Look around you. This site is full of people who went off too fast and for whom that knowledge is no comfort.

 

You seem determined to communicate to everyone reading this thread that they can go off olanzapine faster. Perhaps you can start your own peer counseling organization and take on the responsibility of people tapering according to your ideas.

 

Feel free to taper any way you want. If you run into problems, we may not be able to help you dig out. Maybe Harrow,  Brandt, Bschor, Henssler, Müller, Hasan, Heinz, or Gutwinski could rescue you. Good luck.

 

I am considering making a YouTube video in the future going into further detail about my experience tapering Olanzapine and the theory/methodology behind my method.  Perhaps if it gains enough traction, then I will start my own website. I do not believe that it was the intention of Dr. Breggin for people to embark on 5-6 year tapers based on an interpretation of his research. People need take responsibility for their own actions throughout the taper. I never once asked for any help or advice from anyone on SA at any point during my journey. The point of SA to me is the free-exchange of ideas and to talk/read about others who have been through similar circumstances. I have read many Olanzapine cases on SA where people went against the advice of SA and were successful as a result. Since you will not name any specific people, I will refrain from doing the same out of respect for those individuals. 

2021 Oct 10mg Olanzapine, 2022 Mar 5mg, 2022 Nov 2.5mg, 2023 Jan 1.25mg, 2023 April .7mg, 2023 July .4mg, 2023 September .2mg, 2023 October .12mg 2023 25 October 2023 .03mg 4 December 2023 0.00mg

 

«Les hommes de génie sont des météores destinés à brûler pour éclairer leur siècle. »1766

 

Napoléon BONAPARTE

 

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Excellent, make your own videos and start your own Web site and take responsibility for what your theories might do to other people.

 

Breggin never was a tapering specialist. You seem to think these doctors are oracles and their written works the gospel. They are not.

This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner.

"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein

All postings © copyrighted.

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I just want to say that I am forever and infinitely grateful to Altostrata, as well as the mods here.

Olanzapine (5mg) started June 2023 - This is the only drug I'm currently taking, haven't used any other psych drugs.

After 4 weeks dropped to 2.5mg for 5 days then dropped to 1.25mg for 3 days, withdrawals commenced. I then took a single dose of 3.75mg. Then went to 2.5mg. since July 19

Hoping to hold at 2.5mg  and GODWILLING I will STABILIZE.

I can't tell WD symptoms from Long Covid symptoms. I think a bit of both, and I think my quick earlier taper has made the LC symptoms worse ... what to do.

Update: Sept 28 2023: -2.5%   Oct 5: -2.5%   Oct 12: -2.5%   Oct 19: -5%   Oct 29: -5%   Nov 10: -5%  2.0mg  Nov 20:  -5%  1.9mg  Nov 30:  -5%  1.8mg  Dec 12:  1.75mg   Dec 22: 1.70mg

Dec 29: 1.65mg Jan 06/24: 1.60mg  Jan 14: 1.55mg Jan 25: 1.50mg   Feb 12: Updose to 1.55mg

(percentage drops are from previous dose)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi everyone, I am about to begin my olanzapine taper and I will be reducing by 5% per month because I am super sensitive to reductions (I attempted to reduce in the past). I will be having capsules compounded because I can’t tolerate liquid olanzapine. I’m on 5mg now and I meant to ask my psychiatrist if he could prescribe me 5mg capsules so that my brain could get used to metabolising the capsules instead of a solid tablet, before I make my first reduction, but I forgot. So I will be going straight to 4.75mg in capsules. Am I likely to run into issues because I’m not letting my brain get used to capsules first? 

Mid June 2019 to mid November 2019 - Escitalopram (Lexapro) 20mg (3 week taper - psych advise) 

Reinstated 2.5mg Lexapro 3rd Jan 2020 

Increased Lexapro dose to 5mg (0.06g) 11th Jan 2020 due to continual WD symptoms, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.05g 7th March 2020, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.04g 7th April 2020, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.03g 7th May 2020

Mid June 2019 to 14 Jul 2020 - Clonazepam 0.5mg 

Pericyazine (Neulactil) 20mg 24th Jun 2020 - 12th July, down to 15mg 13th July - 19th July, down to 10mg 20th July - 26th July, reinstated 15mg Pericyazine 27 July 2020 - Accidentally took 20mg for 2 nights 5 &6/8/20, CT Pericyazine 14th Sept 2020 (Psych CT and replaced with Olanzapine) 

20mg Lexapro - 16th May 2020 - 9th Sept 2020 (Psych CT and replaced with Nortriptyline) 

10mg Diazepam - 5 Aug 2020, reduced over weeks to 7mg Tuesday 29 September, updosed to 8mg 2nd October 2020, started reducing by 0.5mg every two weeks - first reduction 12th December 2020, final dose on 18th March 2022 (off valium!)

125mg Nortriptyline - 10 Sept 2020 - Current 

5mg Olanzapine - 15th Sept 2020 - 29 Sept 2020, reduced to 2.5mg on 30 Sept 2020, back up to 5.0mg on 5th Oct 2020. Reduced to 4.750 on 9 Nov 2020, back up to 5mg Olanzapine sometime in January 2021 (current)

Supplements: beef liver, fish oil, vitamin D, zinc, iron every 2nd day

 

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2 hours ago, Nicjk said:

Hi everyone, I am about to begin my olanzapine taper and I will be reducing by 5% per month because I am super sensitive to reductions (I attempted to reduce in the past). I will be having capsules compounded because I can’t tolerate liquid olanzapine. I’m on 5mg now and I meant to ask my psychiatrist if he could prescribe me 5mg capsules so that my brain could get used to metabolising the capsules instead of a solid tablet, before I make my first reduction, but I forgot. So I will be going straight to 4.75mg in capsules. Am I likely to run into issues because I’m not letting my brain get used to capsules first? 


I wouldn't expect any particular problems staying on the solid form of the drug.

 

Though I would be prepared to hold there as long as you need to feel comfortable again before attempting further cuts.

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • Moderator

@Nicjk (and @Intense) I have moved your discussion about nicjk's specific taper into your intro thread at https://www.survivingantidepressants.org/forums/topic/22119-nicjk-my-introduction/page/8/

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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On 2/18/2019 at 9:11 PM, lucyinthesky said:

Hi @MuffinHopes. I tried a few times before to taper off both Zyprexa and Seroquel (similar atypical antipsychotic) NOT using the taper method and I was unsuccessful. I had exactly the same problem, I simply couldn't sleep. 

 

But I am now doing the 10% taper method, and I have gone from 2.5mg to 1.3mg. The only negative symptoms I'm experiencing are waking up a lot at night. When I've just done a reduction in my dose, I will have more sleep interruptions and it will be harder to get back to sleep (occasionally I can't get back to sleep at all), but after about 2 weeks, this subsides into just waking up a few times a night. It isn't perfect but it really is quite manageable. I'm feeling better than I ever did on the full dose. 

 

I did have to stop drinking alcohol. And I feel better and better the more I cultivate a positive mindset and nourish myself with healthy foods, meditate and exercise (etc.).

 

In terms of my method, I'm using tapering strips (https://www.taperingstrip.org/), which have been developed in the Netherlands (where I live) to help people taper. If I didn't have access to these, I would use the water method.

 

I really suggest you try the gradual reduction method. I believe it's the only way.

Hi @lucyinthesky are you off olanzapine now? Did you experience insomnia for 2 weeks every time you reduced? I just made my first reduction and I am already waking up more than usual during the night

Mid June 2019 to mid November 2019 - Escitalopram (Lexapro) 20mg (3 week taper - psych advise) 

Reinstated 2.5mg Lexapro 3rd Jan 2020 

Increased Lexapro dose to 5mg (0.06g) 11th Jan 2020 due to continual WD symptoms, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.05g 7th March 2020, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.04g 7th April 2020, Decreased Lexapro dose to 0.03g 7th May 2020

Mid June 2019 to 14 Jul 2020 - Clonazepam 0.5mg 

Pericyazine (Neulactil) 20mg 24th Jun 2020 - 12th July, down to 15mg 13th July - 19th July, down to 10mg 20th July - 26th July, reinstated 15mg Pericyazine 27 July 2020 - Accidentally took 20mg for 2 nights 5 &6/8/20, CT Pericyazine 14th Sept 2020 (Psych CT and replaced with Olanzapine) 

20mg Lexapro - 16th May 2020 - 9th Sept 2020 (Psych CT and replaced with Nortriptyline) 

10mg Diazepam - 5 Aug 2020, reduced over weeks to 7mg Tuesday 29 September, updosed to 8mg 2nd October 2020, started reducing by 0.5mg every two weeks - first reduction 12th December 2020, final dose on 18th March 2022 (off valium!)

125mg Nortriptyline - 10 Sept 2020 - Current 

5mg Olanzapine - 15th Sept 2020 - 29 Sept 2020, reduced to 2.5mg on 30 Sept 2020, back up to 5.0mg on 5th Oct 2020. Reduced to 4.750 on 9 Nov 2020, back up to 5mg Olanzapine sometime in January 2021 (current)

Supplements: beef liver, fish oil, vitamin D, zinc, iron every 2nd day

 

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8 minutes ago, Nicjk said:

Hi @lucyinthesky are you off olanzapine now? Did you experience insomnia for 2 weeks every time you reduced? I just made my first reduction and I am already waking up more than usual during the night


@Nicjk, please bear in mind that this is a withdrawal tips thread, not a general chat thread to seek help.  You can leave a comment in lucyinthesky's intro thread instead, if you wanted to chat with them.

I am not a health professional - your actions are your own.  

Please do not seek tapering support via private message - "Any reason to hold is a good one"

My taper visualised as a graph   |   My intro thread

Backdrop:  2003 10mg olanzapine | 2004 2-3mg risperidone | end 2014 3wks aripiprazole

2015: olanzapine  10 -> 7½ -> 6⅔ -> 5mg  by crude pill cutter

2018:  Mar 5.00mg -> water titrated taper -> Aug2.5mg tablet and hold

Jan 2019 2.50mg water titration -> Jan 2020 1.214  -> Jan 2021 0.44 -> 2 Oct 0.205 ->3 Oct ZERO🥂

Jun 2023 💉150mg paliperidone "loading" depot shot, 100mg 1wk after Jul 100mg Aug-Dec 75mg/4wks

Jul 2023 2.50mg aripiprazole/day attempt to lower prolactin^

Jan-Feb 2024 cross taper off shots to 1mg risperidone

 

Ask not what you can do for your country, but what your country did to you"  -- KMFDM

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  • 1 month later...

Does anyone know how to account for differences in pill weight when dry cut tapering? I find my olanzapine pills vary in weight from .127-.124 

how am I supposed to know how much to take off and still be consistent in my reduction?

And how do you take off a specific percentage when working with a pill weight?  Are you just taking the percentage of the total pill weight? 
I’m sorry for all the questions but I’m terrible at math and I know this needs to be as close to exact as possible. 
 

thanks in advance. 

I have been on and off psychiatric medications for about 10- 11 years…

since 2013-

I have been on

Risperidone once,

 palliperidone once,

 Abilify

Depakote once, ALL AWFUL 

and most recently Zyprexa.

All of which I discontinued shortly after leaving the hospital except Zyprexa. It proved to difficult. So now, a year and a half later I am trying to taper off the zyprexa. I am here for support, Help with my taper, and to hear the success stories of those who have come out on top of this and are getting on with their lives. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

20221229_174713.jpg.4581be5dd7c88c1c6bac

On 15th June 2020 ,Started to taper 6.25mg olanzapine at the rate of 2.5% of the previous dose every 2 weeks.

13th Nov 2020 - 5mg of olanzapine, 900mg of sodium valproate, 0.25 mg of clonazepam

2020 Dec - 5mg olanzapine, 900mg sodium valproate, 5 mg valium. 

Dec 15th - 5mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 4mg valium. 

Jan 11th 2021- 5mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 1 mg valium. 

Feb 2nd - 4.88mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 0mg valium. 

March 1st- 4.75mg olanzapine, 800mg 

sodium valproate( currently holding SV )

March 9th - 4.63mg olanzapine.April 1st 4.5 April 15th 4.39,1st may 4.27,10thmay 4.16, 20th may 4.05,30th may3.95,15th june3.85, 25th June 3.75, 5th July 3.65, 17th July 3.55, 1st Aug 3.45, 23rd Aug 3.37

6th Sept 3.28, 17th Sept 3.20, 10th Oct 3.12, 21 Oct 3.03 , 1 Nov 2.95 , 11 Nov 2.88,

21 Nov 2.8 , 4 Dec 2.73 , 18 Dec 2.66 , 10 Jan 2022 2.59 , 31 Jan 2.52 , 14 Feb 2.5,1st Apr 2.44,17Apr2.37, 3may2.31, 17may2.25, 30may2.19, 20Jun2.13, 5jul2.07, 1Sept 2.01, 30sept 1.81, 29oct 1.81, 29Nov 1.71. (9dec 0mg of sodium valproate)24Dec1.62, 14Jan23 1.58, 4Feb 1.54, 4Mar 1.46, 4Apr 1.34, 5May 1.26, 2Jun 1.20, 5July1.14, 4Aug 1.08, 19Sept 1.05, 30Sept 1.02, 27Oct 1.0, Dec7 0.97, Jan-4-2024 0.95, Jan20 0.93, Feb16 0.9, Mar1 0.87, Mar16 0.84, 

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20221228_221607.thumb.jpg.267dc4c04fb93144b3f7129bd6031efd.jpg

Also

To taper at 5% of the previous dose once a month, follow every 2nd row once a month.

 

To taper at 7.5% of the previous dose once a month, follow every 3rd row once a month.

 

To taper at 10% of the previous dose once a month, follow every 4th row once a month.

 

It can also help in gradual updosing starting from 2.5% of the dose being taken by moving upwards in the table. 

 

 

On 15th June 2020 ,Started to taper 6.25mg olanzapine at the rate of 2.5% of the previous dose every 2 weeks.

13th Nov 2020 - 5mg of olanzapine, 900mg of sodium valproate, 0.25 mg of clonazepam

2020 Dec - 5mg olanzapine, 900mg sodium valproate, 5 mg valium. 

Dec 15th - 5mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 4mg valium. 

Jan 11th 2021- 5mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 1 mg valium. 

Feb 2nd - 4.88mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 0mg valium. 

March 1st- 4.75mg olanzapine, 800mg 

sodium valproate( currently holding SV )

March 9th - 4.63mg olanzapine.April 1st 4.5 April 15th 4.39,1st may 4.27,10thmay 4.16, 20th may 4.05,30th may3.95,15th june3.85, 25th June 3.75, 5th July 3.65, 17th July 3.55, 1st Aug 3.45, 23rd Aug 3.37

6th Sept 3.28, 17th Sept 3.20, 10th Oct 3.12, 21 Oct 3.03 , 1 Nov 2.95 , 11 Nov 2.88,

21 Nov 2.8 , 4 Dec 2.73 , 18 Dec 2.66 , 10 Jan 2022 2.59 , 31 Jan 2.52 , 14 Feb 2.5,1st Apr 2.44,17Apr2.37, 3may2.31, 17may2.25, 30may2.19, 20Jun2.13, 5jul2.07, 1Sept 2.01, 30sept 1.81, 29oct 1.81, 29Nov 1.71. (9dec 0mg of sodium valproate)24Dec1.62, 14Jan23 1.58, 4Feb 1.54, 4Mar 1.46, 4Apr 1.34, 5May 1.26, 2Jun 1.20, 5July1.14, 4Aug 1.08, 19Sept 1.05, 30Sept 1.02, 27Oct 1.0, Dec7 0.97, Jan-4-2024 0.95, Jan20 0.93, Feb16 0.9, Mar1 0.87, Mar16 0.84, 

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Video of Olanzapine suspension preparation for liquid taper. 

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/15oSVGHgLUy5xB1TfvdXio9d4C8kU5q4X/view?usp=drivesdk

 

When you are discarding either 1ml ,or 2ml , or 3ml of Olanzapine suspension using a 5ml syringe, instead of 20ml syringe will be more convenient. 

 

🙏

 

On 15th June 2020 ,Started to taper 6.25mg olanzapine at the rate of 2.5% of the previous dose every 2 weeks.

13th Nov 2020 - 5mg of olanzapine, 900mg of sodium valproate, 0.25 mg of clonazepam

2020 Dec - 5mg olanzapine, 900mg sodium valproate, 5 mg valium. 

Dec 15th - 5mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 4mg valium. 

Jan 11th 2021- 5mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 1 mg valium. 

Feb 2nd - 4.88mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 0mg valium. 

March 1st- 4.75mg olanzapine, 800mg 

sodium valproate( currently holding SV )

March 9th - 4.63mg olanzapine.April 1st 4.5 April 15th 4.39,1st may 4.27,10thmay 4.16, 20th may 4.05,30th may3.95,15th june3.85, 25th June 3.75, 5th July 3.65, 17th July 3.55, 1st Aug 3.45, 23rd Aug 3.37

6th Sept 3.28, 17th Sept 3.20, 10th Oct 3.12, 21 Oct 3.03 , 1 Nov 2.95 , 11 Nov 2.88,

21 Nov 2.8 , 4 Dec 2.73 , 18 Dec 2.66 , 10 Jan 2022 2.59 , 31 Jan 2.52 , 14 Feb 2.5,1st Apr 2.44,17Apr2.37, 3may2.31, 17may2.25, 30may2.19, 20Jun2.13, 5jul2.07, 1Sept 2.01, 30sept 1.81, 29oct 1.81, 29Nov 1.71. (9dec 0mg of sodium valproate)24Dec1.62, 14Jan23 1.58, 4Feb 1.54, 4Mar 1.46, 4Apr 1.34, 5May 1.26, 2Jun 1.20, 5July1.14, 4Aug 1.08, 19Sept 1.05, 30Sept 1.02, 27Oct 1.0, Dec7 0.97, Jan-4-2024 0.95, Jan20 0.93, Feb16 0.9, Mar1 0.87, Mar16 0.84, 

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Thanks Venkat - the list is certainly helpful. However, the video can only be viewed after approval.

We have also had very good experiences with dissolving in water and using a pipette for 1.5 years. 
However, we dissolve the 2.5mg tablet in 100ml of water in a small brown bottle.
It seems to us that the dosage of the reduction has a slightly lower margin of error, which is particularly important for low dosages.

13.10.21 - 50mg Sertraline + 2mg Diazepam (stop after 7 days).
15.11.21 - decission to stop sertraline, because of adverse reaction, no more Sertraline since 18.11.21
03.02.22 - Massive side effects from Sertraline, including head pressure, led to a suicide attempt and hospitalisation
16.03.22 - 20mg Olanzapine / 30mg Mirtazapine / 2.5mg Diazepam (last day of hospital and Diazepam)
17.04.22 - monthly microtapering Olanzapine (22.10.22 - 10mg / 22.02.23 - 7,5mg / 20.05.23 - 5mg / 15.07.23 - 3,7mg)
10.08.23 - monthly microtapering Mirtazapine (28.08.23 - 26mg / 18.09.23 - 22mg / 17.10.23 - 18mg / 20.11.23 - 15mg)
17.04.22 - monthly microtapering Olanzapine (15.12.23 - 3,2mg / 13.01.24 - 2,75mg / 12.02.24 - 2,25mg / 13.03.24 - 1,875mg)

Current - monthly microtapering Mirtazapine 15mg / Olanzapine 1,875mg (holding)

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@JandD I am sorry about the video, didn't know how else to post it so as to make it accessible easily. 

On 15th June 2020 ,Started to taper 6.25mg olanzapine at the rate of 2.5% of the previous dose every 2 weeks.

13th Nov 2020 - 5mg of olanzapine, 900mg of sodium valproate, 0.25 mg of clonazepam

2020 Dec - 5mg olanzapine, 900mg sodium valproate, 5 mg valium. 

Dec 15th - 5mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 4mg valium. 

Jan 11th 2021- 5mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 1 mg valium. 

Feb 2nd - 4.88mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 0mg valium. 

March 1st- 4.75mg olanzapine, 800mg 

sodium valproate( currently holding SV )

March 9th - 4.63mg olanzapine.April 1st 4.5 April 15th 4.39,1st may 4.27,10thmay 4.16, 20th may 4.05,30th may3.95,15th june3.85, 25th June 3.75, 5th July 3.65, 17th July 3.55, 1st Aug 3.45, 23rd Aug 3.37

6th Sept 3.28, 17th Sept 3.20, 10th Oct 3.12, 21 Oct 3.03 , 1 Nov 2.95 , 11 Nov 2.88,

21 Nov 2.8 , 4 Dec 2.73 , 18 Dec 2.66 , 10 Jan 2022 2.59 , 31 Jan 2.52 , 14 Feb 2.5,1st Apr 2.44,17Apr2.37, 3may2.31, 17may2.25, 30may2.19, 20Jun2.13, 5jul2.07, 1Sept 2.01, 30sept 1.81, 29oct 1.81, 29Nov 1.71. (9dec 0mg of sodium valproate)24Dec1.62, 14Jan23 1.58, 4Feb 1.54, 4Mar 1.46, 4Apr 1.34, 5May 1.26, 2Jun 1.20, 5July1.14, 4Aug 1.08, 19Sept 1.05, 30Sept 1.02, 27Oct 1.0, Dec7 0.97, Jan-4-2024 0.95, Jan20 0.93, Feb16 0.9, Mar1 0.87, Mar16 0.84, 

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13 hours ago, Venkat said:

20221228_221607.thumb.jpg.267dc4c04fb93144b3f7129bd6031efd.jpg

Also

To taper at 5% of the previous dose once a month, follow every 2nd row once a month.

 

To taper at 7.5% of the previous dose once a month, follow every 3rd row once a month.

 

To taper at 10% of the previous dose once a month, follow every 4th row once a month.

 

It can also help in gradual updosing starting from 2.5% of the dose being taken by moving upwards in the table. 

 

 

Thank you for this. I thought there was a piece/ page missing but I see you haven’t done it yet. I will screenshot this one and I trust that you will post the next sheet as you go lower.

I could never do this myself so I really appreciate your posting this. 
 I see you were tapering a few things together, how was that? I also tapered off Depakote. It took me about 6 months to come off 1200mg, but I was only on if for about 10 months so it’s wasn’t to bad. 
  I also came off a benzo years ago. 
good for you! that alone is an unimaginable horror.
But if I’m being completely honest Im mainly asking about the Zyprexa because I’ve never dealt with this drug before and it really scares me. I have come off antipsychotics before but this one is different. Maybe because it works heavily on serotonin where as the others did not. I’m unsure, I only know the withdrawal from this was something I’ve never experienced before so I’m very nervous. I guess I’m looking for hope in your story or perhaps a little tip that I don’t know. 
 I guess what I really want to know is ..

how has it been tapering the

Zyprexa at 2.5% ?
 How long have you been on it?
Has it gone relatively smooth? 

Have you run into any problems? Updosing? Holding? 
Are you seeing any difficulties as you get lower in dose due to the hyperbolic curve? 

I’m not trying to be a pain .
I ask everyone similar questions .

I’m just trying to ask about all the variables in order to assess potential problems as I move forward. 

thanks in advance, all your help is appreciated. 

I have been on and off psychiatric medications for about 10- 11 years…

since 2013-

I have been on

Risperidone once,

 palliperidone once,

 Abilify

Depakote once, ALL AWFUL 

and most recently Zyprexa.

All of which I discontinued shortly after leaving the hospital except Zyprexa. It proved to difficult. So now, a year and a half later I am trying to taper off the zyprexa. I am here for support, Help with my taper, and to hear the success stories of those who have come out on top of this and are getting on with their lives. 

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@BoyMom70 I was on olanzapine from 2015 to 2020 ( about 5 years ). It was unimaginable hell. I was extremely sensitive to olanzapine. Tapering was the only way out. When I started to taper at 10% of the previous dose every month, I suffered from very bad withdrawals and had to updose and hold for a long time. 10 % rule may have helped many. But when I started tapering at 2.5% of the previous dose every 2 weeks ( ie 5% of the previous dose every month) I was able to move forward, although I did suffer from insomnia for sometime. When I come down to around 2mg I just began to feel like a human being again and became hopeful of recovery. At 2.5 % taper I think I updosed only once by 2.5%. Yes at 2.5% taper every 2 weeks it was relatively smooth. I did hold a few times for a little longer periods without sticking to the dates strictly. 

I am currently on 0.75mg, so far so good. Right now no difficulties in the taper and also feeling like a normal human being and doing justice to my profession and family as well.

I found being slow, slow and slow has been helping me.

With the experienced and wonderful mods and supporting friends or fellow travelers you are in safe hands on SA.

Hope this helps. Please take care Boymom, be safe.

On 15th June 2020 ,Started to taper 6.25mg olanzapine at the rate of 2.5% of the previous dose every 2 weeks.

13th Nov 2020 - 5mg of olanzapine, 900mg of sodium valproate, 0.25 mg of clonazepam

2020 Dec - 5mg olanzapine, 900mg sodium valproate, 5 mg valium. 

Dec 15th - 5mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 4mg valium. 

Jan 11th 2021- 5mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 1 mg valium. 

Feb 2nd - 4.88mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 0mg valium. 

March 1st- 4.75mg olanzapine, 800mg 

sodium valproate( currently holding SV )

March 9th - 4.63mg olanzapine.April 1st 4.5 April 15th 4.39,1st may 4.27,10thmay 4.16, 20th may 4.05,30th may3.95,15th june3.85, 25th June 3.75, 5th July 3.65, 17th July 3.55, 1st Aug 3.45, 23rd Aug 3.37

6th Sept 3.28, 17th Sept 3.20, 10th Oct 3.12, 21 Oct 3.03 , 1 Nov 2.95 , 11 Nov 2.88,

21 Nov 2.8 , 4 Dec 2.73 , 18 Dec 2.66 , 10 Jan 2022 2.59 , 31 Jan 2.52 , 14 Feb 2.5,1st Apr 2.44,17Apr2.37, 3may2.31, 17may2.25, 30may2.19, 20Jun2.13, 5jul2.07, 1Sept 2.01, 30sept 1.81, 29oct 1.81, 29Nov 1.71. (9dec 0mg of sodium valproate)24Dec1.62, 14Jan23 1.58, 4Feb 1.54, 4Mar 1.46, 4Apr 1.34, 5May 1.26, 2Jun 1.20, 5July1.14, 4Aug 1.08, 19Sept 1.05, 30Sept 1.02, 27Oct 1.0, Dec7 0.97, Jan-4-2024 0.95, Jan20 0.93, Feb16 0.9, Mar1 0.87, Mar16 0.84, 

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1 hour ago, Venkat said:

@BoyMom70 I was on olanzapine from 2015 to 2020 ( about 5 years ). It was unimaginable hell. I was extremely sensitive to olanzapine. Tapering was the only way out. When I started to taper at 10% of the previous dose every month, I suffered from very bad withdrawals and had to updose and hold for a long time. 10 % rule may have helped many. But when I started tapering at 2.5% of the previous dose every 2 weeks ( ie 5% of the previous dose every month) I was able to move forward, although I did suffer from insomnia for sometime. When I come down to around 2mg I just began to feel like a human being again and became hopeful of recovery. At 2.5 % taper I think I updosed only once by 2.5%. Yes at 2.5% taper every 2 weeks it was relatively smooth. I did hold a few times for a little longer periods without sticking to the dates strictly. 

I am currently on 0.75mg, so far so good. Right now no difficulties in the taper and also feeling like a normal human being and doing justice to my profession and family as well.

I found being slow, slow and slow has been helping me.

With the experienced and wonderful mods and supporting friends or fellow travelers you are in safe hands on SA.

Hope this helps. Please take care Boymom, be safe.

I’m so happy to know you are doing better now, and feeling more 

“human”. It gives me hope for myself. 
I too am extremely sensitive to Zyprexa. from the very beginning it gave me a feeling of being “off” and as time went on I just felt like there was no joy in my life anymore, and it felt like the floodgates had been opened on my anxiety and depression. Not to mention I put on 60lbs. 
It’s an awful drug , no one should take it. I’m looking really closely at your tapering schedule, it’s the closest to what I feel I may be able to tolerate. 
I had the same issue as you did, 
the 10% cut put me back in the hospital, and a 4% cut had me awake for 3 days without eating. We have to be so careful because we have no idea where our personal Threshold is. 
   I just started shaving my pills down by 1mg a week ( in weight ) like people do with benzodiazepines. My pills weigh about 126mg and I’m down to 123mg. I’m sleeping and eating so I guess I’m still ok. I guess it’s like the equivalent of reducing by like 1% a week or less. I’m so bad at math. 
that’s why I’m so interested in your 

taper .. it sounds like it may be just what I need. I’m a little concerned about doing water titration, but it seems to be working for so many other people and I’m sure it’s probably more accurate than shaving down pills. I’m just intimidated by the whole process honestly so I’m being overly cautious. Even at these low dose reductions I’m still having some mental withdrawal symptoms. Anxiety, depression, weird thoughts when I wake up. It’s like everything is scary. 
Im sure the fact that I’m going through menopause simultaneously isn’t helping either.  Did you have any emotional withdrawal symptoms ? 
what kind were you having ? 
I don’t mean to pry I’m just trying to gauge whether or not what I’m experiencing is normal. Anyway.. 
 I’m truly happy for you @Venkat

it seems like you really Feel better.
You’re feeling good about your career and your family life… That’s amazing!

Honestly,that’s really what we’re all trying accomplish right?  
 SA is wonderful, the entire community here are doing so much good in the world. The help they provide is immeasurable. They are truly a port in the storm. 
I do feel as if I’m in safe hands.. that was beautiful said. 
I will be taking your advice and going slow, slow and slow.
My goal is to make this a painless as possible.

I look forward to the next page of your tapering schedule, I will need it.
  Thank you for your kind words and support, it really means a lot to me. 
please take good care of yourself and 

keep us updated on your progress.

 I look forward to hearing from you. 

 

I have been on and off psychiatric medications for about 10- 11 years…

since 2013-

I have been on

Risperidone once,

 palliperidone once,

 Abilify

Depakote once, ALL AWFUL 

and most recently Zyprexa.

All of which I discontinued shortly after leaving the hospital except Zyprexa. It proved to difficult. So now, a year and a half later I am trying to taper off the zyprexa. I am here for support, Help with my taper, and to hear the success stories of those who have come out on top of this and are getting on with their lives. 

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Hi @BoyMom70 anhedonia, anxiety, depression and insomnia ( obesity too ) which I was going through just like you, gradually reduced in intensity to mild and very mild state which became manageable as I moved down the taper slowly. You will also get out of it I believe. 

 

Yesterday me and my wife did the calculations for tapering from 1 mg olanzapine to 0.1 mg. I have to find a way to post the work sheet  as I have already utilized the permissible amout that can be posted with the  2 tables and video that I have already posted.

 

All said, I still have a long way to go to get out of the woods.

 

I am really glad I could be of help Boymom.

Take care.

 

Regards venkat.

On 15th June 2020 ,Started to taper 6.25mg olanzapine at the rate of 2.5% of the previous dose every 2 weeks.

13th Nov 2020 - 5mg of olanzapine, 900mg of sodium valproate, 0.25 mg of clonazepam

2020 Dec - 5mg olanzapine, 900mg sodium valproate, 5 mg valium. 

Dec 15th - 5mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 4mg valium. 

Jan 11th 2021- 5mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 1 mg valium. 

Feb 2nd - 4.88mg olanzapine, 800mg sodium valproate, 0mg valium. 

March 1st- 4.75mg olanzapine, 800mg 

sodium valproate( currently holding SV )

March 9th - 4.63mg olanzapine.April 1st 4.5 April 15th 4.39,1st may 4.27,10thmay 4.16, 20th may 4.05,30th may3.95,15th june3.85, 25th June 3.75, 5th July 3.65, 17th July 3.55, 1st Aug 3.45, 23rd Aug 3.37

6th Sept 3.28, 17th Sept 3.20, 10th Oct 3.12, 21 Oct 3.03 , 1 Nov 2.95 , 11 Nov 2.88,

21 Nov 2.8 , 4 Dec 2.73 , 18 Dec 2.66 , 10 Jan 2022 2.59 , 31 Jan 2.52 , 14 Feb 2.5,1st Apr 2.44,17Apr2.37, 3may2.31, 17may2.25, 30may2.19, 20Jun2.13, 5jul2.07, 1Sept 2.01, 30sept 1.81, 29oct 1.81, 29Nov 1.71. (9dec 0mg of sodium valproate)24Dec1.62, 14Jan23 1.58, 4Feb 1.54, 4Mar 1.46, 4Apr 1.34, 5May 1.26, 2Jun 1.20, 5July1.14, 4Aug 1.08, 19Sept 1.05, 30Sept 1.02, 27Oct 1.0, Dec7 0.97, Jan-4-2024 0.95, Jan20 0.93, Feb16 0.9, Mar1 0.87, Mar16 0.84, 

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10 hours ago, Venkat said:

Hi @BoyMom70 anhedonia, anxiety, depression and insomnia ( obesity too ) which I was going through just like you, gradually reduced in intensity to mild and very mild state which became manageable as I moved down the taper slowly. You will also get out of it I believe. 

 

Yesterday me and my wife did the calculations for tapering from 1 mg olanzapine to 0.1 mg. I have to find a way to post the work sheet  as I have already utilized the permissible amout that can be posted with the  2 tables and video that I have already posted.

 

All said, I still have a long way to go to get out of the woods.

 

I am really glad I could be of help Boymom.

Take care.

 

Regards venkat.

Thank you for the encouragement.

it’s good to know things will get better.

you are doing great!! Just keep moving forward. Slowly but surely you will get there.  
  I will message you my email if that’s ok? Then you can just send me the new tapering schedule so you don’t have to post it if you don’t want to.

 

 Thank you for all the advice it really helps to know you are doing better as you go down. 
 

please take care and be well. 

I have been on and off psychiatric medications for about 10- 11 years…

since 2013-

I have been on

Risperidone once,

 palliperidone once,

 Abilify

Depakote once, ALL AWFUL 

and most recently Zyprexa.

All of which I discontinued shortly after leaving the hospital except Zyprexa. It proved to difficult. So now, a year and a half later I am trying to taper off the zyprexa. I am here for support, Help with my taper, and to hear the success stories of those who have come out on top of this and are getting on with their lives. 

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