MissSerene: Looking Forward to Help

[MissSerene]

I'm new, and my screen name is aspirational. If I say I'm serene, maybe I'll start to believe it.

 

Have just started tapering off Prozac after being on it for 18 years for chronic, low-grade depression. I was diagnosed when my late husband was very ill. I have an extensive personal history of childhood neglect and abandonment, and a family history of depression, anxiety, drug and alcohol dependence, and sexual abuse. Fortunately, my mood problem has never rendered me non-functional...my role was always achiever and peacemaker. My twin sister, however, has had severe problems with depression and anxiety and has been on multiple meds for decades. Her quality of life has been profoundly affected by both her mood problems and the meds she has taken for them.

 

I resigned from a high-pressure corporate job in late 2011 and since then have realized, slowly, what a fog my mind has been in, I think due to AD. I have apathy, flat affect, sexual side effects, and others. Recently read Glenmullen's "Prozac Backlash," which details damage that long-term use of SSRI might cause. I feel I've lost myself over the years and desperately want to feel alive again. But have been terrified of stopping the drug due to the problems my twin (and my mother and sister and others) have had all their adult lives.

 

Also, I'm approaching menopause and fear that withdrawal symptoms or possible relapse after drug discontinuation will coincide with unmedicated hormone-related mood swings. I need to start job hunting but want something uncomplicated and routine....nothing like I was doing before. After my wonderful first husband's death, I am remarried to a great guy who is loving, patient, and supportive. Even with these blessings, this process still feels SO scary.

 

I am 51 and otherwise healthy and working hard to heal my "inner landscape" so the world has color again. So glad to be here.

Edited July 31, 2013 by tezza
Added member name to title

[MissSerene]

After taking for 18 years, I am just starting to taper off 20mg Prozac daily; went down to 15 mg on July 19. Is this too big or small a jump, or does it depend on individual? Dr. Joseph Glenmullen's books say that many people can simply stop taking 20mg and do fine. But my body is sensitive to even small amounts of everyday stuff like coffee, wine, and sugar (and I'm scared of relapse). It took me 18 months to comfortably withdraw from a benzo a year and a half ago. Anybody have experience with tapering off a relatively low dose of Prozac?

 

 

[Meimeiquest]

I may need correction here, but I think I've read that a 25% initial cut is an option, but be prepared to up dose at the slightest symptom. If you have a symptom that early on, you probably need to go down with just 10% cuts. Also, you need to hold for a minimum of 4 weeks with the first cut of Prozac, maybe even 6, because of its very slow elimination from the body. It takes that long for the change to be registered in the brain/body.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

And we are glad to have you here! There is a wealth of information on this board, lots to digest and get acquainted with. If you have questions and concerns, voice them here in your thread and rest assured the knowledgeable folk here will see and address them.

 

By the way, is that a YUMMY 3 layer cake in your Avatar pic? Dreamy, luscious, (pink!). It does convey serenity!

[MissSerene]

Meimeiquest: Tx for your reply. I feel worse today than any day since my initial dose cut on 7/19....vivid dreams last night (animals and a dead bird coming back to life), some low-grade dizziness and nausea, ringing in ears, stomach bloating. These are almost identical to withdrawal reactions I had to Klonopin.

 

To get 15 mg, I take a 1/2 tsp plus 1/4 tsp of the liquid...maybe tomorrow I'll add another 1/8 tsp, and stay on the 17.5mg dose for a month before dropping back down to 15 mg.

 

Got excited when I read Dr. Glenmullen's statements that most patients can just stop taking 20mg of Prozac, and that withdrawal symptoms AREN'T worse for people who have been on the drug a long time. Guess it is a very individual thing. I so want to be off this stuff! Thanks again.

[MissSerene]

Cymbalta: Isn't that a gorgeous picture? It makes me happy just looking at it!!! It's a Martha Stewart cake.  Thanks so much for your reply. Will get acquainted with the site.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Martha Stewart, no wonder! Ya just gotta love her when you see a cake like that........

 

And you'll love this site!

[tezza]

Welcome! This link may help:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/759-tips-for-tapering-off-prozac-fluoxetine/

 

We're glad you've joined us!

[Rhiannon]

Yes, it's a very individual thing. Of course we don't see the people who come off easily here on this forum (although I have heard they do exist!), so what we usually see here is that people need to taper ADs just like they do benzos. That certainly isn't an unusual situation.

 

Sounds like you understand how to to a slow taper already.

[MissSerene]

I did learn about slow tapers with the Klonopin. But after reading Dr. Glenmullen's book info re: long-term side effects of SSRIs, got anxious to get off faster. But this doesn't seem smart for me...I think patience is the answer. Yesterday, visited pharmacy and got a medicine bottle cap with a hole in top, and an oral syringe that dispenses fractions of MLs. Am grateful to have discovered that method here.

 

Am also telling myself that the taper will be a great opportunity for better self-care in general. Am getting ready to go on family vacation to beach tomorrow, though, where there will be lots of junk food and lots of alcohol. Will keep visiting here for moral support!  

[Jemima]

Welcome to the forum, MissSerine.  Please note that I moved your topic in Tapering to your Intro because it's about you and your personal withdrawal journey rather than a topic of general interest.

 

A 25% taper is generally not a good idea, especially for someone who's been on antidepressants for years.  You might be interested in reading this general topic on a long, slow taper:

 

Why Taper By 10% of My Dose?

 

You'll find lots of good information and friendly support here.

[MissSerene]

I think I've experienced my first real window since beginning taper in July. Though improvement seems to be gone today, I've been clearer and sharper mentally, more awake, and better able to apply myself. Have sort of felt like my 17-year-old brain (the one I've considered the height of my powers, LOL) was still in there...somewhere...under/beyond the fog. Now I have concrete hope that it's possible, no matter how slowly tapering happens and healing proceeds. Yay! And I hope the same for others here.

[Altostrata]

Very good to hear, MIssSerene.

 

I merged your post her to update your Intro topic. Please bookmark or follow it so you can find it again.

 

What method of tapering are you using?

[MissSerene]

Alto: Tx for moving...I will bookmark. Re: taper, am doing a 5-percent cut every two weeks. Very noticeable w/d symptoms but not debilitating. So excited to have felt significantly mentally clearer for a few days...hopefully a taste of things to come.

[bubble]

your story is very inspiring and encouraging. Thank you for letting us know

 

and the best of luck with the rest of the journey!

 

bubble

[Rhiannon]

Please keep us posted. I've worked with so many people in more chaotic situations than yours, it's good to hear about a fairly uncomplicated taper. Sounds like it's going well for you. You may need to slow down a bit as you get to the lowest doses, just listen to your body and observe your withdrawal symptoms. Sounds like you're good at that.  Yay!

[Altostrata]

How long do your withdrawal symptoms last after each cut?

 

You may wish to make smaller cuts every 2 weeks, sounds like 5% may be a little too high.

[MissSerene]

Thanks, Rhi. As scary and uncomfortable as this is after being on fluoxetine for so long, I'm grateful that it's not as complicated as the situations of many here. What a huge relief this short window was. Will try to keep good updates coming.

[MissSerene]

Alto: My w/d symptoms are typically lasting until time for the next cut; they become less intense over the two weeks but remain. The tinnitus is there almost every morning....vivid, disturbing dreams (esp. right after a cut)...mild nausea and dizziness. Maybe a 3-percent cut better than 5 percent, every two weeks?

[Altostrata]

I think you should take a nice, long hold right now, maybe a month or two.

[MissSerene]

Alto: I think I'll do that. As of last Saturday, I'm at about half the dose I started tapering from in July. Desperately want to avoid -- to the extent possible -- long-term trouble or depressive relapse after I'm completely off...have such a family history. Even though my situation isn't very complex since I'm weaning off only one drug (and one with a long half-life, at that), still want to be very careful. Have already been through a lot getting off Klonopin, and so want to look forward to a healthier, steadier existence. I appreciate your experience and input and welcome any other thoughts.

[MissSerene]

I want to be off this stuff so badly. Have been on it for so long, on autopilot, and particular side effects have affected my intimate life in ways that make me sad. Was first put on Prozac when dealing with more than a 16-year struggle with my first husband's brain tumor and untimely death. I was lucky enough to find another great guy, who is now my husband, and I so want to be able to give this relationship everything I've got. But don't want to compromise long-term wellness with a rushed taper.

[Rhiannon]

You may actually find that a hold will allow you to experience more of that clarity. As you get to these lower doses you will probably find that the effect of the drug itself will be lessened and most of what you're experiencing that you don't like is due to the withdrawal symptoms, including more subtle ones that you may not even be aware of. A long hold will allow you to see what your baseline actually is at this point. It may be better than you realize. 

 

I know for me most of the problems caused by the AD itself began to lift below 3 mg and now, when I'm not having withdrawal symptoms, I feel like I have my original pre-AD personality back almost all the time.

 

It's worth a try, anyway. You may find that by going very slowly you can minimize withdrawal symptoms, and the actual drug itself won't be as disruptive to your wellbeing at the lower doses, so that actually going slow will be better for your relationship than getting off faster would be.

 

See what happens if you hold for 4-8 weeks.

[MissSerene]

Rhi: You are awesome. Was just at grocery store feeling weepy about needing to hold/slow down (midlife hormone shifts are also making me cry about the price of organic produce... o:)) and then got home and read this. So you think it's possible with a hold now to discover current baseline, maybe feel clearer, and that the drug's effects at low dose may diminish? Yipppeee! I'm willing to try it. It's encouraging to hear that your pre-AD self is almost totally back.

 

Was also earlier today practicing the Dialectical Behavior Therapy concepts of distress tolerance and radical acceptance. This doesn't feel good, but I can handle it. Especially with great info and support...Thank you again.

[MissSerene]

Glad to be back after busy time adjusting to new part-time job. Am experiencing some new withdrawal symptoms in Prozac taper. While moving from original dose to just under half that (over the past year), had lots of nausea, dizziness, fatigue, etc. Now, I am having muscle twitches, more numerous strange/bad dreams, and most troubling, my mood has changed noticeably...I feel depressed. Is this common? I've heard that latter stages of taper can actually be harder than initial. I am also almost 52 and approaching menopause, so not sure how hormonal fluctuations can add to the picture.

 

Boy, this is hard. Again, glad to be back.    

[Petunia]

Welcome back MissSerene,

 

I moved your post from the Prozac tapering thread as its specifically about your situation.  I'm sorry to hear you are having new symptoms now, when did they start getting worse? Are you still experiencing nausea, dizziness and fatigue?  What dose of Prozac are you on now and how long have you been at that dose?

 

You may need to hold for a while until your symptoms settle down again.

 

Petu.

[MissSerene]

Petu: Thanks for reply. I cut down to approximately 10 mg/day on April 16 (as stated in signature)...a 5-percent cut from previous dose. I had held previous dose for several months at Alto's suggestion, to stabilize. 

 

Since last cut, have had constant ringing in ears and off-and-on worsening of mood. Re: mood, have been having on-and-off weepiness and crying spells for almost two years now, I presume perimenopause related, but didn't feel depressed. I now feel kind of flat/who cares/not looking forward to anything, interspersed with fewer crying spells. I also get irritated/angry very easily now. 

 

Though my starting dose wasn't that high, and I've been tapering really slowly, I'm very sensitive to chemicals and pharmaceuticals. Should I wait until ear-ringing calms down and mood improves to make next 5-percent cut? Is there such a thing as going too slowly? Want to be really careful not to create problems for myself. Thanks a lot.   

[MissSerene]

Actually, as Alto had suggested several months ago, maybe a 3-percent cut would be better once current symptoms subside?

[Petunia]

Its difficult to know which symptoms are hormone related and which are withdrawal.  I don't think there is such a thing as going too slow with AD withdrawal, especially if symptoms are persisting, but mood fluctuations could be perimenopause.

 

Congratulations on your successful taper off Klonopin, how long were you taking it for?

 

If I were in your situation, I would continue to hold, or perhaps even try a small updose to see if that helped.  If you felt better after an updose, then you would know if your symptoms were related to Prozac withdrawal, rather than hormonal and you could continue with your taper at a much slower rate. 

 

Lets see what others suggest.

[Altostrata]

MissSerene, when one is very sensitive, dosage reductions of 3% are not unreasonable. You may wish to hold for a bit now.

[MissSerene]

Petu and Altostrata: I'm going to hold here for a while longer, and then do a 3-percent cut. Combo of w/d and perimenopause much more challenging than I anticipated.  

 

Petu, I was on Klonopin for a decade or more. My internist recommended against trying to get off, and I did it very, very slowly. It was hard, but so worth it. 

 

The ringing in my ears is constant now....I'm so accustomed to it that I almost can't tell whether it's there or not o:)  Thanks to you both.

[MissSerene]

Have been away from forum for quite a while during adjustment to part-time work and caring for a new puppy. Having anxiety and depression now amid very slow Prozac taper and want to connect again. At times, thinking about and discussing withdrawal -- including being here -- is helpful and positive. Other times, because I tend to ruminate, it leads to distress. Am learning to regulate the latter so I can give and receive support and info without thinking obsessively and getting negative.

 

After a year and a half, I'm down to less than half my 20mg/day original dose of fluoxetine, which I've been on for more than 20 years. Am reducing the dose about 3 percent every few weeks and have done a number of long dose-freezes along the way; my internist suggested this since I'm near menopause and having hormone-related mood issues. I don't know whether to stay on current dose until hormones settle down, or just go ahead and continue taper since I'm feeling lousy anyway....and get it over with!  Having unremitting tinnitus, on-and-off flulike symptoms, sobbing jags, anxiety, low mood, poor appetite and taste changes (even Christmas cookies don't seem appealing). Feel apathetic and just going through motions.

 

Being in the middle of this feels like a slog....after taking a long time to taper off a benzo several years ago, I can't remember the last time I felt really good. My personal experience isn't bearing out statements I've read that getting off Prozac is easy or can be done quickly. Altostrata and others here reminded me a ways back that withdrawal is different for everyone, and unpredictable.

 

I wonder, too, if fear of aging/the harder work of maintaining a middle-aged body is adding to the stress and discouragement. Am trying to look at withdrawal as opportunity for great self-care, but some days it's hard, isn't it?

 

Several bright spots: My job is physical so keeps me moving and fit, and I'm walking puppy twice a day, for nearly an hour at a stretch. My husband is as supportive and patient as a girl could hope for. In fact, he's so steady that I compare myself and my withdrawal to his healthy family background and outlook, and feel "sick." Trying to just be thankful.

 

I need some reminders that this is going to pass, it's not permanent or "just the way I am" forever. I'm not alone. We're in this together.     

[mammaP]

Hi MissSerene, I've merged your new topic with your original intro thread, it is one topic per person

here in the intro forum so that your history is all in one place. 

I'm sorry that you are feeling so rotten and think that maybe a long hold would be best for you, at least until

spring is here. Everything seems much harder in winter, unless you are in Australia!! 

 

The puppy sounds lovely and pets are known to be beneficial for stress and anxiety so that was a good move.H

Hubby sounds lovely too,  and very loving and supportive which is also good for stress and anxiety, there is nothing 

better than being loved and nurtured during this nightmare.   I think you are right about finding the balance here too,

too much time here can offset the benefits and we all need to step back at times to do some real life stuff.   This is a

safe haven but we need to venture out into the world at times. 

 

This will get better, I can't say when but it will, until it does, hang on to that surfboard and ride those waves with us. We 

will hold you up and help you to stay on top of the waves 

[MissSerene]

MammaP: You are awesome! Thank you so much. Have that surboard in hand now...and am taking it out to walk Puppy! LOL.

[wantrelief]

Your story is very inspirational!  I am on an AD and Klonopin and you bring me hope that someday I will be able to get off of these drugs.  I was doing what I thought was a slow taper and got hit with major withdrawal symptoms.  I have since updosed and am trying to get stable but am feeling miserable.  I think you should take it super slow, hold as long as you need to.  The symptoms you describe sound attributable to withdrawal so I would hold until you are feeling better. 

[MissSerene]

Is anyone familiar with the herbal menopause supplement called Remifemin (black cohosh), which I started taking recently to help relieve perimenopause symptoms. I also use a small amount of topical natural progesterone cream three weeks out of each month. I know progesterone in large doses can contribute to depression, but my dose is small to moderate. Anyone have experience with either, related to SSRI withdrawal?

 

Also feel I'm experiencing some depersonalization, and it's scary. Didn't think I'd have this symptom with such a slow taper off of a moderate dose of a long half-life drug. And it seems to be intermixed, with no identifiable pattern, with oversensitivity, crying jags, etc. Does it make sense to say you feel moody and weepy one moment and detached/numb the next? Like you're totally not yourself, like an observer?