Hannahspannah21 Desperate

[Hannahspannah21]

I've recently attempted another withdrawal from seroxat/ Paxil. When I dropped from 11.5 to 10 I totally crashed, this was 8 weeks ago. Since then I have up dosed to 11.5 then 15 but got no relief am now back on original dose - 20 mg as well as 15 mg mirtazipine to help me sleep. Last time this happened to me this combination got me stable and i was able to discontinue the Mirtazapine after a couple of months with no,problems.

I've been on 20mg for nearly 4 weeks now and although I had a brief period of having some good days the week before last, since then I've been feeling worse. I feel so desperate my anxiety is sky high and I'm not sure how much longer I can go on. I've got 2 young kids, so wouldn't do anything drastic but actually that just makes me feel trapped. I've been referred to the mental health team who I saw in the week I'd had some good days so they were saying likelihood is will feel even better by this week but I just don't.

Is it just a case of riding it out and waiting to feel better or is there something I can do?

[Zoe]

I am so sorry that you are feeling so bad. Someone with more knowledge than me on this subject will come by soon. Just know that I am sending hugs & prayers your way. It will get better.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, Hannahspannah21.

 

It sounds like your taper was too fast for your nervous system, and it became destabilized. You are suffering withdrawal syndrome as a result.

 

The reinstatement of Paxil may help after a while, maybe even 6 months. These things are unpredictable. Your nervous system will take as long as it needs to stabilize. Please try not to make any big changes in your medications. The nervous system thrives on stability.

 

Your history of going on and off drugs has made your nervous system more vulnerable and less tolerant of drug changes.

 

Once you do get stable, you might be able to sneak off Paxil and mirtazapine. To be extra-careful, we recommend a 10% taper, based on the last dosage. The amounts of decrease keep getting smaller.

 

See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/405-tips-for-tapering-off-paxil-paroxetine/

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

[Hannahspannah21]

I cannot feel like this for 6 months tho. I can't work, I'm having trouble coping with the children, just getting through each day is an ordeal. I've got a psychiatrist appt 6 jan, I'm betting they'll want to do something with the meds. Do I really just stick with it & hope for some relief soon?

[Altostrata]

Unless the psychiatrist is unusually well-informed, my expectation is that you will be doused with prescriptions.

 

If your nervous system has been sensitized, loading additional drugs on it probably will make it worse.

 

However, there's no predictability as to what will work. Reinstatement has a fair track record, but isn't guaranteed.

 

This may be something you or your psychiatrist cannot control. It's a real drawback of psychiatric drugs.

[bubble]

It definitely won-t be horrible all 6 months.

 

There will be windows and waves and gradually symptoms will abate. I immediately felt relief after reinstating my drug and over a period of 3 months gradually felt better and better.

 

I definitely wouldn't listen to a psychiatrist because unfortunately they have no clue about any of this and make things a lot worse.. their ignorance is dangerous which we learn at a great cost of suffering.

 

The advice I got here was very helpful and Alto is a great expert studying these issues for many, many years, working with people on this forum and most importantly having her own painful history with these drugs.

 

I would always trust her more over any psychiatrist. There are very, very few who understand withdrawal and how these drugs really work.

 

You will get better and I'm so happy for you you came to this forum where you will get best advice, lot of understanding and support.

 

best,

 

bubble

[Altostrata]

I'd see what the psychiatrist has to say, but not expect much and be skeptical of any additional drugs.

[Nikki]

Hi Hannah.....

 

I agree about being inundated with prescriptions.  It has happened to most of us. Have you ever tried Rescue Remedy?  Jude used to use it all the time with her Seroxat taper.  There is the beta blocker propanolol which stops anxiety. 

 

It may be like bubble said, if you had a few good days, maybe that is the first sign of stabilizing.

 

I don't know how Mirtazapine is dosed....is 15mgs. considered a low dose?  Look it up before you see the doctor.

 

Hugs

[Petunia]

Hi Hannah,

 

I'm so sorry you are going through this, but you have come to the right place to get good advice and support.  Its not unusual for it to take longer than 4 weeks for a reinstatement to work, especially if your nervous system has become significantly unstable.  How did you taper down from 20mg to 11.5mg.

 

It would be helpful if you put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature, instructions are here:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/893-please-put-your-withdrawal-history-in-your-signature/

 

We generally don't recommend adding any more drugs to alleviate withdrawal symptoms,  I took propranolol when I was in early withdrawal and it caused rebound depression.

 

Many people find that magnesium and fish oil are helpful:

 

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1300-magnesium-natures-calcium-channel-blocker/

http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

Psychiatrists write prescriptions, that's their business, that's what they are trained to do - they diagnose and then based on that diagnosis, select what they consider the appropriate medication/s.  Most of them will not be interested in someone who wants to come off medication, that would be like a butcher encouraging a customer to become a vegetarian.

 

I hope your psychiatrist is helpful and will support you in coming off your meds, please don't agree to take more.

 

Let us know what happens and I hope you start to feel better soon.

 

Petu.

[bubble]

Petu, this is such a gem of a statement: that would be like a butcher encouraging a customer to become vegetarian.

 

so true! great way of putting it, just loved it

[Hannahspannah21]

At the moment I'm not even bothered about getting off the meds I just want to feel better. Ive chucked that goal out of the window, my goal now is to get better and get my life back. I was absolutely fine taking 20mg and enjoying life. I just decided to withdraw as I didn't want to take it forever. I wish I'd never bothered now....

[Hannahspannah21]

Petu

 

"I'm so sorry you are going through this, but you have come to the right place to get good advice and support.  Its not unusual for it to take longer than 4 weeks for a reinstatement to work, especially if your nervous system has become significantly unstable.  How did you taper down from 20mg to 11.5mg."

 

I will do a signature when I feel I've got the energy for it but basically I started reducing in feb 20-18-16-14.5-13-11.5-10 I got to 10 mid oct I left 4-6 weeks between each drop. Looking back on it the drop to 11.5 was hard and I dropped to 10 about 2 weeks after that eased off and also in amongst a lot of stress at work & home, so prob wasn't best time to do that drop, but I had a silly goal in mind to get to 10 and stay there for the winter, as I find winter hard anyway, then I was going to start again in spring. I've been on paroxetine since I was hospitalised with post natal depression nov 2009, so I definitely needed it & actually it probably saved my life. I attempted withdrawal in spring/ summer 2011, dropping 2mg every 2 weeks as advised by a psychiatrist! Got to 8mg & crashed. Tried up dosing then but ended up back on 20mg with Mirtazapine for sleep which I managed to stop after 3 months.

 

When you say it's not unusual for it take longer than 4 weeks for reinstatement to work, does that mean it could still work? Do you know of people wo have taken longer to stabilise but have managed to stabilise? I'm just terrified that its not going to & I'm going to feel like this forever. However having said that it did work last time, I can't remember exactly how long it took but it probably was over 4 weeks.....

[Sweetcreature]

Hi Hannah,

 

Feel free to look at my intro. It has been a tough ride for me and stability is not yet here. I don't want you to lose hope- I think stability will happen for you and for me but it is hard to tell how long it will take - can you get extra support with the children at the moment?

[Altostrata]

I hesitate to suggest this because it doesn't always work -- switching to Prozac is a fairly well-known way to go off Paxil or Effexor. Don't do this unless you have confidence in the doctor.

 

Information here: http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/1463-the-prozac-switch-or-bridging-with-prozac/

 

In my opinion, overlapping 10mg of Prozac with Paxil for several days, then dropping Paxil, is the best method.

[wulfgar]

At 15 mg for a female mirtazapine is in the upper limits. Please do not let any doctor prescribe any higher dose of this drug. Good effectiveness for sleep starts at 7.5 mg:s (male 15mg) and do not usually get better at higher dose, and might become worse. (Due to double half life in females 15 mg is the same as 30 mg in males.)

[Hannahspannah21]

I posted in back in Dec/ Jan 13/14 when I crashed after reducing seroxat from 11.5-10mg. To cut a long story short I ended up on Effexor as well as 20mgs Seroxat, but after asking for change of psych who agreed with me that all the drugs were making me worse, I finally began to stabilise (6 months after I began to feel unwell).

Since then I have reduced Effexor from 225 to 112.5mg with no problems at all. Reduced by 37.5 each time and did it because it was obvious there was too much serotonin in my body - went through periods of kind of mania and unable to sleep, when reduced the dose this stopped.

I have reduced the Seroxat slowly also leaving 4-6 weeks between reductions. However most recently I reduced from 11mg to 10.4 thinking this was a much smaller drop than the last one that made me crash...well I got it wrong. I can't function properly, having trouble eating, going out, massive anxiety, especially in the mornings etc etc. This was 5 weeks ago. I have gone back up in dose to 11mg but not much improvement yet.

The added complication is that a very close family member committed suicide a couple of weeks ago. Before that happened I had had a few 'better' days but now I just feel like I'm getting worse.

I have a psych now who is willing to consider this is a withdrawal problem but is saying it should have improved by now if it is and perhaps it's a 'relapse'. She's suggesting I consider slightly increasing the Effexor.

I'm just so confused and feel so alone, I just want some relief from the daily hell that feels like the pit of depression I was in when I was initially put on the drugs (hospitalised for post natal dep). Should I just hold on & hope to stabilise on 11mg? Will this ever happen?

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

A moderator will come by and join this post to your Introductions topic here, and that will put all of your updates in one place (there is only one topic per member in the Introductions topic), where you can continue with your updates, ask questions pertinent to your situation, and receive comments and helpful suggestions from moderators, admins and other members. You may wish to bookmark it so you can find it easily in the future.

 

It is also easier to read posts if they are sectioned off into paragraphs separated by a blank line, a 'wall of text' is very hard to read on a computer screen or the tiny screen on phones or tablets.

 

Instructions for adding a 'signature to your posts are here:

Please put your withdrawal history in your signature

[Aliwill]

Welcome Hannah

 

I haven't enough experience to answer your questions but just wanted to welcome you. My anti depressant journey also started with PND.

 

Someone will be along shortly to answer your questions and give you some advice, but in the mean time have a look around, you will find lots of helpful information here.

 

Hope you feel better soon.

 

Ali.

[Altostrata]

Merged Hannah's Intro topics.

 

Hannah, you've gone off both drugs too fast, particularly the Paxil. Yes, you have withdrawal symptoms. Your nervous system has become destabilized again.

 

Welcome, Hannahspannah21. It sounds like your taper was too fast for your nervous system, and it became destabilized. You are suffering withdrawal syndrome as a result. The reinstatement of Paxil may help after a while, maybe even 6 months. These things are unpredictable. Your nervous system will take as long as it needs to stabilize. Please try not to make any big changes in your medications. The nervous system thrives on stability. Your history of going on and off drugs has made your nervous system more vulnerable and less tolerant of drug changes. Once you do get stable, you might be able to sneak off Paxil and mirtazapine. To be extra-careful, we recommend a 10% taper, based on the last dosage. The amounts of decrease keep getting smaller. See http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/405-tips-for-tapering-off-paxil-paroxetine/ http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

 

(We also recommend 10% decreases of Effexor.)

 

If I were you, I would updose back to 11mg Paxil.

 

You may have to hold on reducing either drug until your nervous system settles down.

 

The prescription of Effexor with Paxil is bizarre and dangerous. I would file a complaint about the doctor who did that.

[Hannahspannah21]

Thanks for responding, I already have up dosed back to 11, over 4 weeks ago, no improvement yet....of course the situation isn't helped by the suicide in the family, which has been very shocking and upsetting. I don't know whether I'm coming or going. I had a terrible psych who practically bullied me into Effexor and Paxil. When I got a new psych she agreed it wasn't a great combo and the idea was to get off the Paxil first. She thought the Effexor might 'hold me' but that hasn't happened.

 

At least I've kind of proved to them that I do have an issue with w/d from Paxil. Re the Effexor, I reduced it as I clearly had too much serotonin in the body. Those drops were made around about July 14, Dec 14 and February 14. I've had no issues with that at all, maybe because I wasn't on it that long?

 

The Paxil I've done really slowly and not noticed any major problems apart from a few weeks of low energy/ interest in things, after each drop. It's the tiny drop from 11 to 10.4 that seems to have done it, it always seems to be that I crash around the 10mg mark. I know David Healy has a theory about people having 'shelves' where they hit particularly hard problems. This theory seems to fit me as the last 2 times I've tried to come off, I've hit real problems around the 10mg mark. I'm beginning to think that I'm one of those unlucky ones who will never be able to get off...In the meantime, I just need to get some stability back. I've got a young family and it's the school holidays here. Any idea how long that might take with the updose? (How long is a piece of string I guess!) can it take longer than 4 weeks, I'm beginning to lose hope that it will ever happen. My psych is also saying that as my symptoms are so much worse in the morning, this is a classic sign of major depression and therefore this could be a relapse and I may need to consider increasing the dose of one of the meds...

[LoveandLight]

Aww so sorry to hear about the death in the family.

[Hannahspannah21]

Last night I slept well and today I have managed to do some things I haven't been able to do before - going to shops and making decisions. Some of the physical symptoms such as hot flashes have subsided, I'm finding it easier to eat as well, not having to force food down. I'm still very tearful all the time but it seems to be more linked to how I feel about the suicide in the family, rather than how I feel. Am hoping maybe I'm starting to stabilise a bit....

[Altostrata]

That's good, reinstatement may be finally taking hold.

 

To help us out, see these instructions Please put your drug and withdrawal history in your signature
 

[Hannahspannah21]

I have done my signature and done a bit of reading of your info. My first time on Paxil I was only 21 - probably before the brain had finished developing? Although I managed to get off no probs. I had brief episode of depression in late 20s and took citalopram but only for a month or so and just stopped. Then PND with first child - Paxil, tried to come off few times following docs method of halving dose, always had to go back on. Managed to get off via Prozac to get pregnant with 2nd daughter but did it too quickly was suffering w/d effects for few months until got pregnant when I was fine. After 2nd daughter had severe post natal depression tried Sertraline as really didn't want to go back on Paxil, really bad reaction suicidal after 2 doses! Tried Citalopram after 3 weeks was hospitalised as not functioning at all. Switched to Paxil, also taking lorazepam and zopiclone whilst in hospital and Olanzepine for 3 months. Ended up on 40mg - way too high for me, settled on 20mg. Since then had 2 more failed w/d attempts, when Mirtazapine was added. First time stabilised on reinstatement to 20mg and stopped Mirtazipine after few months. Last time was utter hell and was when I last posted. Those last 2 times and this time I crashed around the 10mg mark.

 

After reading some of your information, I've realised that my brain/ nervous system has had to deal with a lot of different medications, esp since the birth of my second child who is now 5. I was fairly young when first took anti d. I guess this means I have a very long slow road ahead of me if I ever want to get off these drugs. Looking back at my signature, I realise I probably should have held at 11 for a lot longer since I did have a big wobble there?

 

At the moment I just want to get stable and functioning again but looking forward to the future, I'm wondering about maybe focussing on reducing the Effexor as this seems to cause me less problems for some reason, before tackling the Paxil again. At least now I've shown my Psych that it won't 'hold' me while I reduce the Paxil so really there's no point in me taking it. Although if I do this I will do it slower than I've done so far. Thank you for providing this site, it's a great help

[Altostrata]

Right, your history of going on and off drugs, plus the "wobble," means it might take some time for your nervous system to settle down.

[Hannahspannah21]

So I'm functioning much better I think, able to get on with the everyday stuff but I'm massively lacking in energy and enthusiasm. I'm also feeling very sad/ low most of the time but my thoughts now are more pre-occupied with the death of my brother rather than with myself. Could this be a sign that the updose is starting to help and maybe I'm 'just' grieving?

Due to go on hol next week after the funeral, not sure if I can cope with it but also equally don't want to deny my family their summer holiday...any advice?

[Altostrata]

Yes, it sounds like your nervous system is settling and you may be having normal grief.

[tgirl]

Hello Hanna,

 

How are thing going for you?

Tgirl