Administrator Altostrata Posted April 24, 2012 Administrator Posted April 24, 2012 (edited) ADMIN NOTE Also see Genetic testing: "Personalized medicine," liver enzymes, genotypes, GeneSightRx, Genomind, etc. Vitamin B3 (niacin, niacinamide) Folic acid, folate, L-methylfolate, and Deplin (vitamin B9) Vitamin B12 -- essential for mood, nervous system Skip to information post: There is a test that checks for the MTHFR gene mutation causing poor absorption of ordinary folate. The MTHFR mutation (there are several variations) is associated with a number of health conditions other than psychiatric, see http://ghr.nlm.nih.gov/gene/MTHFR and may also cause vitamin B12 deficiency http://ajpheart.physiology.org/content/293/1/H860.full Taking a folate supplement in the form of L-Methylfolate and sublingual B12 or shots alleviates the risk caused by an MTHFR mutation. There are many manufacturers offering L-Methylfolate supplements. An early one was called Metafolin. They are somewhat more expensive than ordinary folate supplements, which are very cheap. Recently, psychiatry jumped on the L-Methylfolate bandwagon with a study paid for by the manufacturer of Deplin, another L-Methylfolate supplement (topic here). The authors trumpeted improvement in their patients as a huge success, when they should have been deeply ashamed of misdiagnosing and treating them with antidepressants rather than L-Methylfolate for years. This paper caused a fad among doctors of prescribing exorbitantly overpriced brand-name Deplin L-Methylfolate for depression. However, in my opinion, this is another reprehensible example of psychiatry mistaking a medical condition for a psychiatric condition. Depression may be a symptom of low folate or vitamin B12; this condition does not deserve a psychiatric diagnosis. Everyone with "depression" should first be tested for deficiencies of this sort and recommended the appropriate supplements rather than psychiatric drugs. Edited February 21, 2019 by ChessieCat Added admin note/cc fixed link to info post 3 This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
Christiana Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Just thinking out loud here and offering up some food for thought... Does anyone here have or ever been tested for: Pyroluria/HPU/KPU (they kind of go together to form a hemoglobin synthesis defect for some) MTHFR (a methylation cycle defect for some) From my understanding, if someone has one or more of these conditions, then it can affect the way your body reacts to what you ingest or are exposed to. I'm just now beginning to learn more about these things and the tests involved. Rich Van Koneynenberg Ph.d, Dr. Amy Yasko, and Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt have websites that talk about these things. A quick Google search will bring up lots of links to a lot more info. One test, which can be done, is through 23andme at http://www.23andme.com. From my understanding, it can indicate whether or not someone is inclined to have problems taking SSRI medications, ingesting sulphur, etc., etc. As I said, I'm just learning about all of these things and finding it quite interesting. So, if you have any thoughts about any of them, please let me know. There is plenty of info on the internet to learn about them. There are even plenty of YouTube videos to watch, so that they can be understood better. Edited May 26, 2018 by Altostrata removed admin note Jun-Jul '09 (approx 7 wks) - 5mg/day Lexapro (drug rep samples) given by family dr for long, unended, very stressful divorce Each dose taken makes sicker, think it's just body adjusting, have no clue it's severe adverse reaction at time Aug '09 - pharmacy gets dr rx for, insurance won't pay, I can't afford, dr changes to Celexa, decline to take, cold turkey, necessary blessing in disguise, in hindsight at least Gradually feel some better over 1-2 wks, 3rd wk horrific withdrawal symptoms start & build, see doctor & start researching internet about what's happening, figure it out, 60-70+ severe, frightening, & debilitating symptoms emerge, realize nothing can do to feel better easily or quickly, feel like & think I'm dying, reach point where doctor gets home healthcare & have to call friend to stay with & take care of, friend abandons about 1 yr & lose home healthcare 1st yr symptoms extremely severe, 2nd yr just somewhat better, now into 3rd yr symptoms don't seem much better, still causing horrible suffering, wax & wane in severity, sometimes almost as severe as when started, practically homebound, mostly bedbound, very hard completing simple tasks, symptoms definitely much worse 7-10 days/mo around menstrual cycle Have lost vehicle & home, plus loved cat & dog had for long time, was homeless several months last winter, lived out of car, living in undesirable gov't subsidized housing now causing many troubles, have no medical & very little rx insurance, disability check & food stamps aren't enough to provide basic needs, lack any reliable personal support anymore, very isolated & all alone, have many pressing stressful things must be done, can barely or unable to complete without help don't have, even ones to help situation some, don't even have finances to get urgent necessary needed help required to help situation & self, social services is frequently visiting now, fear being polydrugged, losing everything, put into nursing home, hope & pray someone will help to keep from happening, don't know what else to do, still way to sick to return to work & college, believe I will recover, in the meantime tho have no answers except to plead for help, hope & pray someone, anyone, who truly cares does soon In 32nd mo now still very bad SSRI protracted withdrawal, have only seen few signs of healing since 2nd yr passed, somehow manage to keep fighting, afraid time is running out for best tho & situation only going to get worse trying to survive on own if don't get help from someone This pretty much summarizes what 49 little round white pills (if I recall correctly) have done to my life & future for now, my before & after life are drastically opposite now, both my situation & self, if only I'd known their potential, a little bit too late now tho huh?.?.?...hindsight really is 20/20 isn't it?.?.?... I pray God blesses and helps each and every one of us, here and elsewhere, going through this nightmare. Amen, amen, amen.
Barbarannamated Posted June 17, 2013 Posted June 17, 2013 Christiana, I am positive for the MTHFR genetic mutation though I don't know which one. Pristiq tapered over 8 months ending Spring 2011 after 18 years of polydrugging that began w/Zoloft for fatigue/general malaise (not mood). CURRENT: 1mg Klonopin qhs (SSRI bruxism), 75mg trazodone qhs, various hormonesLitigation for 11 years for Work-related injury, settled 2004. Involuntary medical retirement in 2001 (age 39). 2012 - brain MRI showing diffuse, chronic cerebrovascular damage/demyelination possibly vasculitis/cerebritis. Dx w/autoimmune polyendocrine failure.<p>2013 - Dx w/CNS Sjogren's Lupus (FANA antibodies first appeared in 1997 but missed by doc).
Administrator Altostrata Posted June 17, 2013 Author Administrator Posted June 17, 2013 I have two MTHFR mutations. This affects how one processes folate. The fix is to take a special kind of folate. It's no big deal. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
Francis Posted June 18, 2013 Posted June 18, 2013 I am homozygous for the A1298C MTHFR mutation. Ive read that that is somehow different from the other type of mutation (C677T) and possibly more linked to ammonia detox... and not as much to do with folate. I havent been able to make any sense of that. 2003-2010 up and down 10-40mg celexa for anxiety2/2011 10mg8/2011 5mg for 3 wks, then stopped completely.middle of night waking after apx 1-2 hours of sleep (nightly), panic/jitteriness after waking11/11 back on 30mg celexa, ambien/many supplements-insomnia/panic.2/12 30mg celexa, many supplements (Magnesium eliminated morning tight chest/jitteriness). Off ambien!7/12 20mg8/12 15 mg(sleep improving,mood pos)12/12 2.3 mg got liquid celexa!1/13 2.1 mg3/13 1.2 mg4/13 down to .6 too quickly- cortisol spikes, middle of night waking, night sweats...4/13 held at .6 for 3 weeks so far. Off most supplements as well. Withdrawal depression almost gone! 7/13 OFF OF CELEXA!!!
Christiana Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 Thank you all for replying. Sorry for my absence, as I've been feeling really rotten. I'm trying to learn more about this. I think it is more of a problem for some, whereas not such a big deal for others, depending on where the mutations are. I plan to get tested soon, if I can. I'll post, if I find out more. Jun-Jul '09 (approx 7 wks) - 5mg/day Lexapro (drug rep samples) given by family dr for long, unended, very stressful divorce Each dose taken makes sicker, think it's just body adjusting, have no clue it's severe adverse reaction at time Aug '09 - pharmacy gets dr rx for, insurance won't pay, I can't afford, dr changes to Celexa, decline to take, cold turkey, necessary blessing in disguise, in hindsight at least Gradually feel some better over 1-2 wks, 3rd wk horrific withdrawal symptoms start & build, see doctor & start researching internet about what's happening, figure it out, 60-70+ severe, frightening, & debilitating symptoms emerge, realize nothing can do to feel better easily or quickly, feel like & think I'm dying, reach point where doctor gets home healthcare & have to call friend to stay with & take care of, friend abandons about 1 yr & lose home healthcare 1st yr symptoms extremely severe, 2nd yr just somewhat better, now into 3rd yr symptoms don't seem much better, still causing horrible suffering, wax & wane in severity, sometimes almost as severe as when started, practically homebound, mostly bedbound, very hard completing simple tasks, symptoms definitely much worse 7-10 days/mo around menstrual cycle Have lost vehicle & home, plus loved cat & dog had for long time, was homeless several months last winter, lived out of car, living in undesirable gov't subsidized housing now causing many troubles, have no medical & very little rx insurance, disability check & food stamps aren't enough to provide basic needs, lack any reliable personal support anymore, very isolated & all alone, have many pressing stressful things must be done, can barely or unable to complete without help don't have, even ones to help situation some, don't even have finances to get urgent necessary needed help required to help situation & self, social services is frequently visiting now, fear being polydrugged, losing everything, put into nursing home, hope & pray someone will help to keep from happening, don't know what else to do, still way to sick to return to work & college, believe I will recover, in the meantime tho have no answers except to plead for help, hope & pray someone, anyone, who truly cares does soon In 32nd mo now still very bad SSRI protracted withdrawal, have only seen few signs of healing since 2nd yr passed, somehow manage to keep fighting, afraid time is running out for best tho & situation only going to get worse trying to survive on own if don't get help from someone This pretty much summarizes what 49 little round white pills (if I recall correctly) have done to my life & future for now, my before & after life are drastically opposite now, both my situation & self, if only I'd known their potential, a little bit too late now tho huh?.?.?...hindsight really is 20/20 isn't it?.?.?... I pray God blesses and helps each and every one of us, here and elsewhere, going through this nightmare. Amen, amen, amen.
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 9, 2014 Author Administrator Posted January 9, 2014 About 40% of the general population carries a genetic variation that might affect methylation. Dr. Kelly Brogan explains the importance of methylation in the article below. (I don't know why this is directed towards women. Men also have MTHFR mutations and may benefit from methylfolate supplementation.) Methylation is necessary for B vitamin metabolism, and B vitamin metabolism is necessary for neurological health and maintenance. Aside from genetic variations, if you're taking any of these, they can interfere with methylation and important B vitamin absorption: metformin oral contraceptives, lamotrigine Antacids and stomach acid blockers (PPI) Folic acid supplements (found in multivitamins and enriched foods) Low thyroid hormone (hypothyroidism) may also interfere with methylation. These can improve methylation: FOLATE NOT FOLIC ACID, specifically L-methylfolate supplements (Quatrefolic or Metafolin)* B12 in the form of methylcobalamin* vitamins B2, B3, B6* trimethylglycine vitamin C *CAUTION For people with sensitized nervous systems, the B vitamins, including L-methylfolate, may be activating. this article suggests "if you do have an adverse reaction to methylfolate (agitation, increased anxiety, headache), you can take nicotinic acid or niacinamide in 50mg dosages every 30 minutes until you experience relief." I have no idea if this works. I would start with a very small amount of L-methylfolate in the morning, gradually increasing the dosage, and perhaps take niacinamide in the evening in case any activation is underway. http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/methylwho-why-you-should-know-about-methylation Methylwho? Why You Should Know About MethylationWednesday, December 25th 2013 at 11:00 amDr. Kelly Brogan, M.D.I was giving a lecture to a group of psychiatric fellows recently, and I got to my slide on folate. I get excited about this topic, and so I rambled on about the one-carbon cycle, and SAMe, methylcobalamin, and the MTHFR mutation. As I looked away from my slides, I could see the vacant stares from the near-audience and knew I had lost them. If highly educated and trained physicians don't know about this, it may be safe to assume that the average woman with mental illness may not either. This article will serve as a boarding call for anyone not on the methylation-train.Here's the deal: there are a number of processes in the body that, when compromised, broken, or otherwise dysfunctional can manifest as fatigue, worry, insomnia, low mood, poor concentration and attention, agitation, a trip to your psychiatrist, and a stop off at the pharmacy.What if you could manage this particular problem without a psychiatrist? When I consider symptoms of psychiatric illness, I think gut, hormones, mitochondria, and methylation. These arenas are so intimately inter-connected, that it rarely makes sense to look at one without the other, and it never makes sense (to me, anymore) to think about invented neurochemical imbalances before addressing these bedrock issues.When you eat folate, or B9, in foods like spinach, or you take a multivitamin or eat flour "enriched" with the much-lauded folic acid, your body has to convert that into a usable form. This process requires an enzyme called MTHFR (5,10-methylenetetrahydrofolate reductase) to convert folic acid and food folate into 5-methylenetetrahydrofolate. Here's what this form of folate does: Donates a methyl group to homocysteine to ultimately make SAMe – the brain's major methyl donor which is responsible for the formation of phospholipids, glutathione, myelin, coenzyme q10, carnitine, and creatine. Vital stuff. Synthesizes BH4 or biopterin, a major cofactor for neurotransmitter synthesis. Synthesizes DNA and tRNA. Recycles the inflammatory amino acid, homocysteine. Builds red and white blood cells, and platelets. Methyl-folate is pretty busy. It doesn't work alone; however. Vitamins B2, B6, and B12 as well as cofactors like magnesium all help support the functioning of this pivotal cycle in the body.Maybe She's Born With ItMTHFR is just one example of a gene for which we can test for decently studied variants at a local lab. There are two common variants to this gene wherein replacements of single nucleotides results in lesser functioning. These variants are inherited.C677T – one bad copy means your enzyme is functioning at 70% and two means you're down to 30%. This mutation has been associated with cardiovascular and psychiatric pathology and its impact is often assessed through screening of homocysteine.And...A1298C – this variant has been less well studied but is estimated to confer 70% functioning when both copies are mutated. This mutation has been implicated in the production of neurotransmitters (because of its involvement in making biopterin, and important cofactor), and breakdown of ammonia.Predicated on associations of low folate to depression incidence and treatment resistance, this review discusses the evidence-based association between MTHFR C677T and depression, schizophrenia, and bipolar, but only included one study on 1298.Estimates of prevalence for these variants range by ethnicity from 2-20%, but in my practice, over 5 years of testing for this gene, only 3 patients have been mutation-free.Given the prevalence of thyroid dysfunction in women, it is worth noting that active thyroid hormone is needed to support MTHFR function, so women with hypothyroidism may bring an additional handicap to this process. Thyroxine regulates conversion of riboflavin, a necessary co-factor for the FAD, an MTHFR-stabilizing enzyme. Alcohol and yeast overgrowth also produce acetylaldehyde which functionally interferes with a related enzyme MTR, which allows activated folate to enter this one-carbon cycle.Brain access to activated folate may be dramatically improved by non-synthetic forms as demonstrated in this case report of reversal of paraplegia with folinic acid. Even cow dairy can cause increase in folate receptor antibodies which functionally interfere with cerebral access to folate.There are also a number of medications that interfere with folate metabolism including metformin, oral contraceptives, and lamotrigine. Antacids can alter the stomach conditions needed for B12, a vital cofactor for the one-carbon cycle.....The Good News....Methyl-folate (or 5MTHF) is a form of this critical B vitamin that can be taken, over the counter, in an effort to bypass any gene mutations. Different forms of activated B12 (hydroxy, methyl, and adenosylcobalamin) are typically essential players in treatment with methylfolate, as well. There have been at least 5 studies (3 randomized, controlled trials) looking at using methylfolate as a treatment for depression, either by itself or in addition to medication. Most of these trials employed high doses (up to 50mg) of methylfolate and had partial to notable response rates. Need to Know For PregnancyWhen I first started testing for this variant (now available at commercial labs like Quest and typically covered by insurance), I noted that obstetricians in the city would also test patients, but only after 3 miscarriages. Methylation problems such as those caused by this variant and other related variants can cause neural tube defects, increased risk for trisomy, heart defects, and now expanding to schizophrenia and autism. In many ways, thoughtful and conservative supplementation with methylation support is in the best interest of mom's mood and baby, and is top of my list for perinatal interventions, supported by papers such as this.One study looked at folic acid supplementation in the women with the C677 mutation and found that there was a decreased incidence of postpartum depression by 21 months after birth. An interesting study in pregnant patients found an increased incidence of depressed mood in the second trimester in women with the C677TT variant, and that both their and their infant's serotonin transporters were methylated or expressed in ways that could conceivably affect behavior.Folic Acid is Not MethylfolateSynthetic folic acid does not exist in the human body. It is found in vitamins, and thanks to the FDA's wisdom, in enriched flour-based foods (yet another reason to shun flour!). Multiple enzymatic steps are necessary to convert folic acid into its active form beginning with dihydrofolate reductase in the gut. Individuals with gene variants, but specifically homozygous C677 should avoid folic acid because of the concern for limited breakdown and subsequent accumulation of this man-made agent. One study has implicated folic acid in suppression of important immune factors called natural killer cells. Folic acid binds more readily to receptors in the placenta and mammary epithelium, and may competitively inhibit or interfere with the functionv of usable, active folate. Currently, commercial testing of blood folate does not distinguish between metabolized and unmetabolized forms. There is also concern that folic acid supplementation can mask B12 deficiency by resolving the typical blood markers while methylfolate is not as likely to do this (although concurrent B12 supplementation is recommended). Dr. Ben Lynch of MTHFR.net, a tireless researcher on all things related to nutrigenomics, goes as far as to claim that folic acid should not be taken by any pregnant or nursing woman. He suggests that use of folic acid may be disturbing the forces of natural selection: "Since women are now supplementing with increased levels of folic acid, they are more likely to carry to term and have improved methylation; however, once the infant is out of the enriched folic acid womb, it is on its own unless the parents supplement the infant with additional folate, b12 and other methylation support nutrients such as choline, b2 and b6." Why there have never been folic acid vs methylfolate studies in pregnancy and in depression in the general population is unclear.What's a Girl to Do?First, get tested. Then, depending on your degree of compromise, you'll want to look for a for a supplement that has says L-methylfolate in the ingredients, with the word Quatrefolic or Metafolin. Starting with B12 in the form of methylcobalamin, and then introducing small doses of methylfolate and cofactors such as B2, B3, B6, trimethylglycine, and vitamin C is advocated for by Dr. Ben Lynch. He discusses different products here and points out how unnecessarily riddled with toxic additives the prescription forms are. He also discusses that, if you do have an adverse reaction to methylfolate (agitation, increased anxiety, headache), you can take nicotinic acid or niacinamide in 50mg dosages every 30 minutes until you experience relief. B3 requires SAMe for its metabolism, and can thereby contribute to a drop in methylation. It is also a cofactor for COMT, an enzyme that breaks down norepinephrine, epinephrine, and estrogen, all potentially elevated in states of anxiety. It hopefully goes without saying that oxidative stress from environmental pollutants, food allergens, poor sleep, and limited relaxation all increase the demand to the corrective efforts of methylation. A clean diet, home, body, and mind are a part of this package. .... This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
Meimeiquest Posted January 9, 2014 Posted January 9, 2014 I believe it is written that way because her practice (except for people getting off meds) is limited to women and her specialty is perinatal psychiatry. 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 11, 2014 Author Administrator Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Perinatal psychiatry? A scary thought. Dr. Brogan's article implies that the type of folate in broccoli, for example, is undesirable. Not so, according to Chris Kressser http://chriskresser.com/folate-vs-folic-acid The type of folate in good-quality fresh vegetables is equivalent to the 5-MTHF or Metafolin supplement type of folate. People with MTHFR variations have trouble metabolizing the kind of synthetic folic acid that is added to multivitamins and baked goods. Kresser suggests this unmetabolized folic acid is actually dangerous to health. Edited January 11, 2014 by Altostrata changed folate to folic acid This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
Meimeiquest Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Like post-partum depression, or if you wanted to get off a med to get pregnant, works a lot with thyroid because that often comes up post-partum...I think. She does not prescribe ADs at all, unless a pt. already on wants to stay on. 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
Meimeiquest Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 It seems like Kessler is talking about normal folic acid metabolism and she's talking about abnormal? I don't see her saying those foods are bad, just that the body with abnormal methylation capacity can't utilize the folic acid in them? 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 11, 2014 Author Administrator Posted January 11, 2014 Right, people with the MTHFR variations cannot metabolize folic acid, they need folate, which is the natural form.This is estimated to be about 40% of the general population.I think Kelly Brogan knows this, but this sentence is unclear as it implies folate = folic acid: When you eat folate, or B9, in foods like spinach, or you take a multivitamin or eat flour "enriched" with the much-lauded folic acid, your body has to convert that into a usable form. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
Meimeiquest Posted January 11, 2014 Posted January 11, 2014 Or is it that the problem makes it difficult to convert folate to methyl folate? Trying to decide if I need to spend the $$ for the test. 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 11, 2014 Author Administrator Posted January 11, 2014 The tests can be ordered by an MD; insurance should cover them. I've found I'm hypersensitive to Metafolin and methylcobalamin -- they'll keep me awake. Here are health consultants who make it explicit that people with MTHFR variations can compensate by eating green leafies:http://www.gbhealthwatch.com/HotTopic-Green-Folate-MTHFR.phpOn the other hand, Ben Lynch says dietary folate is no help:http://mthfr.net/can-a-homozygous-mthfr-gene-mutation-can-be-managed-by-diet-alone/2011/09/28/ This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 11, 2014 Author Administrator Posted January 11, 2014 Ben Lynch on methylfolate side effects http://mthfr.net/methylfolate-side-effects/2012/03/01 Start low and go slow. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
Meimeiquest Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Thank you! You never cease to amaze me, Alto! 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
Meimeiquest Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 Opinions on 23and me? If I understand correctly, they only give ancestral and raw data now? Thinking about MTHFR. My parents both have (different) symptoms. 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 12, 2014 Author Administrator Posted January 12, 2014 Ben Lynch clarification regarding folate in veggies http://mthfr.net/methylfolate-side-effects/2012/03/01/#comment-40944 January 12, 2014 at 3:34 am Hello - If you eat uncooked leafy greens daily, that may be enough support – especially if you reduce your environmental exposures, eat well and sleep well. ....You may take creatine and some phosphatidylcholine complex to support methylation – also Glycine helps. Taking these during the day is important – not in the evening. If you have difficulty sleeping, consider taking 1/2 tablet of Niacin along with 1 capsule of GABA prior to sleeping. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 12, 2014 Author Administrator Posted January 12, 2014 I am heterozygous for the 677T and 1298C MTHFR variants. This is only a partial block to methylation. Regular MDs can order an MTHFR test, it is often covered by insurance. 23andme is not. There has been some question recently about the accuracy of these popularly available results http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/31/science/i-had-my-dna-picture-taken-with-varying-results.html It may be cheaper just to take the methylated folate and B12. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
Meimeiquest Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 I am obviously on an anxiety run here, and my brain is over-linking. I may have had a hefty lead exposure as a child when my parents tore apart and remodeled their circa 1940's kitchen. One of the MTHFR variants impedes heavy metal clearance. A sister goes to a very expensive functional doc; she was supposedly full of heavy metal. I started methylfolate and it seemed to cause nausea (who knows, I have had runs of mild nausea or worse for over a year). So I cut the dose. On 12/26, I increased the dose and a few hours later started severe nausea. Took no more. Have been anxious ever since. I am just afraid taking the supplement will pull out more toxins than I can handle with only my anxious brain to manage it. Also having headaches and upper back pain off and on. 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 12, 2014 Author Administrator Posted January 12, 2014 From what I'm reading, there's a lot of variation in the appropriate dose of methyl folate etc. for each individual. It may be a very small amount is just right for you, meimei. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
Meimeiquest Posted January 12, 2014 Posted January 12, 2014 I don't know what is going to happen next, but this is amazing. First, I have tried niacin before for general WD, to no avail. My last dose of methylfolate was December 26. I have just been getting more and more anxious. Thur. the pdoc was almost begging me to add Klonopin to the oxazepam, she accurately said I radiated anxiety. So a couple of hours ago I took some niacin without expectation...in less than an hour my mind was calm. I have been to the brink so many times, but I am sustained. Thanks again, Alto! 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 12, 2014 Author Administrator Posted January 12, 2014 Uh...you're welcome. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
GiaK Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 I just had a methylation profile done...I'm all whacked and can't take any of the recommended supplements to correct the whack. Chris Kresser is my doctor on this one and he's on a book tour so I don't have an appt to talk to him about alternate ways of dealing with the whack until March 27 and just FYI...I'm highly reactiive to niacin as well...as all the other suggested supplements...it's a problem. Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
Meimeiquest Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 What testing did you have done, what company? I am trying to develop a plan since I can't afford a no-insurance doctor. I have had to repeat the niacin several times, but my sudden improvement is still holding. My urine smells like I'm on antibiotics. 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
Meimeiquest Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 Gia, did your testing show how "sick" your system is or just the genes? I'm wishing for a "lots of green smoothies" solution. 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 13, 2014 Author Administrator Posted January 13, 2014 Sounds like it's liver for us all! This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
GiaK Posted January 13, 2014 Posted January 13, 2014 I didn't do a gene test Meimeiquest...I'm not fond of gene tests... the methylation profile shows how you process methylators and levels of them etc... this is the one I had done: Lab: Doctor's Data • Methylation Profile; plasma (Not available in NYS) http://www.seekinghealth.com/methylation-profile-doctors-data.html for those interested in getting labwork that they don't have doctors for there is a franchise lab now that will do ANY lab test you want...it's called...you ready?? ANY LAB TEST NOW http://www.anylabtestnow.com/ they have a doctor on staff who will order anything you want. The one in my town is run by nice people too, in spite of the fact that i was wondering how it could be legal...still I do believe it's our right to have labs when we want them!! Everything Matters: Beyond Meds https://beyondmeds.com/ withdrawn from a cocktail of 6 psychiatric drugs that included every class of psych drug.
Moderator Emeritus JanCarol Posted January 18, 2014 Moderator Emeritus Posted January 18, 2014 Sigh. None of these "borderline" tests for me. I don't know how I could get this information. I have a choice: mainstream tests with GP doc. Or whacky weird tests with naturopaths. And I haven't found one of those who are credible to me. Australia. The Nanny State. "We'll tell you what's good for you." (and most of the time it's okay, Aussies are a healthy lot of people. But in these fringe sorts of things . . . . ) * * * OMG: Insight. I've been wobbly for about a week and a half. Crying in karate class, getting super sentimental over stupid stuff. Feeling that old Black Dog pulling on my sleeve. And what has changed in the past month besides a normal taper? I've been put on gluten free diet to see if it is the cause of my intestinal distress. I do take a multivitamin, along with B12 and folic acid. But B vitamins are easy to get out of complex carbs - and gluten free is worse than white bread. No nutrition, no fibre. And likely: no B vitamins..... This may be slightly off topic, but the insight was caused by reading your methylation experiences. And while I still don't understand the methlyation thing, and can only find out if I'm "one of those people" by maybe getting a test done next time I'm travelling in the States (geez, bummer), or by trial and error. I do get that this change in diet could've really mucked up my mood. Also: my terminal question: What about people with NO THYROID. Mine was removed. I'm on Synthroid. I can never find out how to supplement for that. If I up my Synthroid, will that enhance my B vitamin absorption? Very confusing. What is the effect of iodine, if I have no thyroid? (kind of a side question, but okay). Thanks Alto for another stimulating journey. "Easy, easy - just go easy and you'll finish." - Hawaiian Kapuna Holding is hard work, holding is a blessing. Give your brain time to heal before you try again. My suggestions are not medical advice, you are in charge of your own medical choices. A lifetime of being prescribed antidepressants that caused problems (30 years in total). At age 35 flipped to "bipolar," but was not diagnosed for 5 years. Started my journey in Midwest United States. Crossed the Pacific for love and hope; currently living in Australia. CT Seroquel 25 mg some time in 2013. Tapered Reboxetine 4 mg Oct 2013 to Sept 2014 = GONE (3 years on Reboxetine). Tapered Lithium 900 to 475 MG (alternating with the SNRI) Jan 2014 - Nov 2014, tapered Lithium 475 mg Jan 2015 - Feb 2016 = GONE (10 years on Lithium). Many mistakes in dry cutting dosages were made. The tedious thread (my intro): JanCarol ☼ Reboxetine first, then Lithium The happy thread (my success story): JanCarol - Undiagnosed Off all bipolar drugs My own blog: https://shamanexplorations.com/shamans-blog/ I have been psych drug FREE since 1 Feb 2016!
Administrator Altostrata Posted January 18, 2014 Author Administrator Posted January 18, 2014 There are doctors who specialize in treating unusual thyroid conditions. You might have to hunt for one. The MTHFR tests are well-recognized. Cardiologists and ob/gyns might order them. This might be covered even in Australia. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted.
cmusic Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 May I ask about the importance of this in recovery? I was hetero - in the 70% category - for both genes. Compound hetero. This all started for me when a psychiatrist recommended deplin a long time ago. Did the test at a holistic place. But there was nothing to do except take supplements which didn't do anything at that time. Since then I've gone through a severe cold turkey withdrawal and all the physical symptoms started. I am now most likely in the category with GiaK where I won't be able to tolerate the very B vitamins and methylfolate I would need to help with this. Has anyone figured out something we can do when supplements are too potent? I also don't know how I would interpret the results of any kind of functional testing on this or where I would go to find a doctor that could help with this sort of thing. Struggling a ton, still, wondering if this is contributing to not getting better. Would a person have to fix this to heal from withdrawal? Thanks. Started on Zoloft in 2002 Switched to Lexapro in 2005 Switched to Prozac in 2008 Off Prozac abruptly in 2010 (a mistake) - crashed Lexapro end of 2010 - didn't work Effexor until 2012 - roller coaster from hell Back to Prozac November 2012 - one last rise and fall Quit Prozac 01/13 Reinstated Prozac 5mg 05/13 Trial of 7.5 Remeron for one month 06/13, then off Off Lamictal 06/13 Quit benzos 06/13 Reduced to 4mg Prozac 8/15/13
Meimeiquest Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 This is about a related gene: http://www.abihm.org/understand-comt-and-change-your-life. Just found it...it totally describes me and some relatives. Cmusic, I just started juicing veggies and twice a week liver. Starting to feel better, but sometimes very nauseated with detox. 1 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
Meimeiquest Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Oops, didn't get the link. You can google "understand COMT and change your life." 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
cmusic Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Thanks. Never heard of COMT but is it 'treated' in the same way? The issue is I have severe agitation when I try to take any of the active methylfolate or methyl b12 supplements. I make smoothies out of spinach or kale every morning but not sure that works if your body has an issue converting natural folate. So I have sort of resigned to just not doing anything about this other than eating as healthy as I can. But having seen this thread I'm worried again about this whole topic. It seems like uncharted waters - and I have never had any success measuring cause and effect with any of this stuff so trial and error is hard for me. Anyway what does someone do who can't take the supplements? Started on Zoloft in 2002 Switched to Lexapro in 2005 Switched to Prozac in 2008 Off Prozac abruptly in 2010 (a mistake) - crashed Lexapro end of 2010 - didn't work Effexor until 2012 - roller coaster from hell Back to Prozac November 2012 - one last rise and fall Quit Prozac 01/13 Reinstated Prozac 5mg 05/13 Trial of 7.5 Remeron for one month 06/13, then off Off Lamictal 06/13 Quit benzos 06/13 Reduced to 4mg Prozac 8/15/13
Meimeiquest Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Well, this just blew up for me 8 days ago, so I don't know a lot. I took methyl folate on my own, and half a tablet three times a day seemed to make me nauseated, so I cut to a fourth. I was getting worse, but did not associate. On Dec. 26. I decided I was ready for 1/2, took once, became very nauseated. Did not take any more. Increasing anxiety...by last Sunday had reached match of highest ever. Read the first article, took "antidote" of niacin with zero expectations. Within 45 min. my brain was calm. Normal withdrawal anxiety came back the next day, niacin doesn't help. Someone posted on the MTHFR.net FB page that they learned the extreme anxiety they had after methyl folate was due to another mutation that affects catecholamines. That MIGHT be CORT, I am just fishing around. But my manias have been associated with ADs that affect catecholamines, so I am hoping that the code has been cracked for me. Have you read Eat to Live? He believes extreme nutrition can overcome metabolic genetic errors, so that's what I am trying to do. I want to get to a pint of juice twice daily, but right now a cup twice daily seems to get quite a reaction. And I just feel "different" when I eat (gag) liver so I assume it is helping. 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
Meimeiquest Posted January 20, 2014 Posted January 20, 2014 Ok, this is probably silliness, but some say a lot of raw spinach, kale, and some other greens can adversely affect the thyroid. Overall, you might get even more benefit from a variety of veggies. I think (not sure) that when the enzyme system is inefficient, hitting it hard with a lot of the target nutrient will push it through. BUT not sure at all. There is a particular need to avoid folic acid and enriched flour. I think we both have a need for more money to see a dr. with a clue! 1st round Prozac 1989/90, clear depression symptoms. 2nd round Prozac started 1999 when admitted to dr. I was tired. Prozac pooped out, switch to Cymbalta 3/2006. Diagnosed with bipolar disorder due to mania 6/2006--then I was taken abruptly off Cymbalta and didn't know I had SSRI withdrawal. Lots of meds for my intractable "bipolar" symptoms. Zyprexa started about 9/06, mostly 5mg. Tapered 4/12 through12/29/12 Wellbutrin. XL 300 mg started 1/07, tapered 1/18/13 through 7/8/13 Oxazepam mostly continuously since 6/06, 30mg since 12/12, tapered 1.17.14 through 8.26.15 11/06 Lithium 600mg twice daily, 2.2.14 400mg TID DIY liquid, 2.12.14 1150mg, 3.2.14 1100mg, 3.18.14 1075mg, 4/14 updose to 1100mg, 6.1.14 900 mg capsules 7.8.14 810mg, 8.17.14 725mg, 8.24.24 700mg...10.22.14 487.5mg, 3.9.15 475mg, 4.1.15 462.5mg 4.21.15 450mg 8.11.15 375mg, 11.28.15 362.5mg, back to 375mg four days later, 3.4.16 updose to 475 (too much going on to risk trouble) 9/4/13 Toprol-XL 25mg daily for sudden hypertension, tapered 11.12.13 through 5.3.14, last 10 days or so switched to atenolol 7.4.14 Started Walsh Protocol 56 years old
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