Healing Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 (edited) [i'm changing the title of this topic to "Placebo Studies" so we can collect them all in one place. The placebo phenomenon is important for us to understand better. It could be a clue to a lot of things -- physical, psychological, and spiritual.] Placebos Help Even When You Know They're Placebos A recent study published in PLoS One suggests that placebos can work even when you know they're placebos. The researchers told the participants that the pill they were being given for IBS "had no active ingredients, but -- this is key -- they also explained that placebos can improve IBS symptoms 'through mind-body self-healing processes'." At the end of three weeks, 59 % of placebo-takers reported adequate relief (vs. 35 % of controls) and double the degree of symptom reduction and improvement in quality of life. http://www.itherapize.com/uploads/5/9/2/9/5929991/wishinguptpdummypills.pdf Now, it seems to me that even though they're not using placebo-deception, they *are* using suggestion. But, still, this merits further exploration. Edited April 28, 2011 by Healing Made this a general thread about placebo studies 1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so... 1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so... 2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so... Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted March 19, 2011 Administrator Share Posted March 19, 2011 Just feeling you have some kind of care and someone is taking your situation seriously can make you feel better. Other research shows that having company is calming, including that of an animal. Attention from a researcher probably has the same effect, as long as it isn't annoying. This is what bemuses me about these placebo studies! What they may be proving is constructive social contact is good for us. This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healing Posted March 19, 2011 Author Share Posted March 19, 2011 Definitely care and attention promote healing. However, in this study, the control subjects got the same amount of care and attention in order to control for this variable. 1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so... 1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so... 2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so... Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrator Altostrata Posted March 19, 2011 Administrator Share Posted March 19, 2011 Definitely care and attention promote healing. However, in this study, the control subjects got the same amount of care and attention in order to control for this variable. Hmmmm..... This is not medical advice. Discuss any decisions about your medical care with a knowledgeable medical practitioner. "It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has surpassed our humanity." -- Albert Einstein All postings © copyrighted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopeful Posted March 19, 2011 Share Posted March 19, 2011 I would have been happy with a placebo! Began Paxil 10/97* Paxil free 10/16/04 (tapered over 2.5 months) Severe withdrawal 12/04 started Lexapro due to Paxil w/d symptoms (tapered over 4 months) Lexapro free 8/2/05 2 1/2 year severe protracted withdrawal Doing well now with a few residual symptoms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderator Emeritus Rhiannon Posted April 17, 2011 Moderator Emeritus Share Posted April 17, 2011 I want a placebo! Started on Prozac and Xanax in 1992 for PTSD after an assault. One drug led to more, the usual story. Got sicker and sicker, but believed I needed the drugs for my "underlying disease". Long story...lost everything. Life savings, home, physical and mental health, relationships, friendships, ability to work, everything. Amitryptiline, Prozac, bupropion, buspirone, flurazepam, diazepam, alprazolam, Paxil, citalopram, lamotrigine, gabapentin...probably more I've forgotten. Started multidrug taper in Feb 2010. Doing a very slow microtaper, down to low doses now and feeling SO much better, getting my old personality and my brain back! Able to work full time, have a full social life, and cope with stress better than ever. Not perfect, but much better. After 23 lost years. Big Pharma has a lot to answer for. And "medicine for profit" is just not a great idea. Feb 15 2010: 300 mg Neurontin 200 Lamictal 10 Celexa 0.65 Xanax and 5 mg Ambien Feb 10 2014: 62 Lamictal 1.1 Celexa 0.135 Xanax 1.8 Valium Feb 10 2015: 50 Lamictal 0.875 Celexa 0.11 Xanax 1.5 Valium Feb 15 2016: 47.5 Lamictal 0.75 Celexa 0.0875 Xanax 1.42 Valium 2/12/20 12 0.045 0.007 1 May 2021 7 0.01 0.0037 1 Feb 2022 6 0!!! 0.00167 0.98 2.5 mg Ambien Oct 2022 4.5 mg Lamictal (off Celexa, off Xanax) 0.95 Valium Ambien, 1/4 to 1/2 of a 5 mg tablet I'm not a doctor. Any advice I give is just my civilian opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted April 27, 2011 Share Posted April 27, 2011 Somebody tell me that a boiled eggs will cure digestive dysfunction and reflux... Tell me it with gusto and give some support too! I'll do my part, I promise. I'll be Cool Hand Luke if need be. Just make me believe in the curative powers of the hard boiled egg. Alex.I "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healing Posted April 28, 2011 Author Share Posted April 28, 2011 Nearly all drug trials scientifically invalid due to influence of the mind; Big Pharma science dissolves into wishful thinking by Mike Adams 22 Feb 11 naturalnews.com A new study in Science Translational Medicine has cast doubt over the scientific validity of nearly all randomized, double-blind placebo controlled studies involving pharmaceuticals used on human beings. It turns out that many pharmaceuticals only work because people expect them to, not because they have any "real" chemical effect on the body. As you'll see here, when test subjects were told that they were not receiving painkiller medications -- even though they were -- the medication proved to be completely worthless. This particular experiment involved applying heat to the legs of test subjects in order to cause pain, then adding a painkiller medication to an IV drip while assessing the subjects' pain levels. When the painkiller drug was present, the test subjects were told about it, and just as expected their pain scores significantly dropped. But when test subjects were told the pain medication had been stopped, their pain levels returned back to the original, non-medicated levels even though the pain medication was secretly still being dripped into their IVs. The mind of the patient, in other words, is what actually determines the "effectiveness" of the pain drug, not the chemical effect of the drug itself. Talking to the BBC, Professor Irene Tracey from Oxford University said, "It's phenomenal, it's really cool. It's one of the best analgesics we have and the brain's influence can either vastly increase its effect, or completely remove it." (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12...). As pointed out by George Lewith, a professor of health research at the University of Southampton, these findings call into question the scientific validity of many randomized clinical trials. He said, "It completely blows cold randomized clinical trials, which don't take into account expectation.".... http://www.naturalnews.com/031451_drug_trials_placebo_effect.html 1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so... 1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so... 2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so... Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted April 28, 2011 Share Posted April 28, 2011 I remember hearing about a major feature in one of the news monthlies a few months ago.. sorta an expose of medical research. I want to say it was in the Atlantic... HOLD for Googling... Yes, indeed: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/8269/ I haven't read it, so I can't vouch. But I remember hearing a great deal about this some months ago. My doctor basically said this article was hugely influential on email lists between docs. I don't think its about placebo effect necessarily however, so mods move if this is the wrong place. Alex.i "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjuice Posted May 4, 2011 Share Posted May 4, 2011 I took some time to read and reflect on the article I linked above: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2010/11/lies-damned-lies-and-medical-science/8269/ The work of Dr. Ioannidis, and its conclusions, are not surprising to me given what I know of the conventional 'wisdom' and the complexities of human motivation. While I am not qualified to dispute or affirm his findings, I recommend the article to anyone unfamiliar with the analysis of medical research conducted by Ioannidis. Alex.i "Well my ship's been split to splinters and it's sinking fast I'm drowning in the poison, got no future, got no past But my heart is not weary, it's light and it's free I've got nothing but affection for all those who sailed with me. Everybody's moving, if they ain't already there Everybody's got to move somewhere Stick with me baby, stick with me anyhow Things should start to get interesting right about now." - Zimmerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Healing Posted May 4, 2011 Author Share Posted May 4, 2011 Alex -- If you feel up to it, please consider posting a couple of the highlights from the article that you think are most germane to our situation. Some people are not going to be well enough to read the whole article, but would really profit from a couple of ideas to chew on. Thanks! 1996-97 - Paxil x 9 months, tapered, suffered 8 months withdrawal but didn't know it was withdrawal, so... 1998-2001 - Zoloft, tapered, again unwittingly went into withdrawal, so... 2002-03 - Paxil x 20 months, developed severe headaches, so... Sep 03 - May 05 - Paxil taper took 20 months, severe physical, moderate psychological symptoms Sep 03 - Jun 05 - took Prozac to help with Paxil taper - not recommended Jul 05 to date - post-taper, severe psychological, moderate physical symptoms, improving very slowly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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