☼ mlrp: withdrawal syndrome from Wellbutrin? Also on remeron and lorazepam.

[Wildflower0214]

Hello there,

 

Have read a good portion of your thread.

 

I hope you are well... I know you've had a bumpy ride. :-/

I am on Ativan as well. I got stuck on it after having a bad reaction to an AD, and subsequent rapid taper.

I read a bit ago you mentioned you were concerned about tolerance. This is something I often think about, but the symptoms are virtually impossible to isolate from AD WD symptoms, so who knows.

 

Anyways, be well. Peace.

[mattinsmom]

Stopping in to say hello and to wish you Happy Holidays. I hope that the trainings and ot have not set any waves in motion. 

[tgirl]

Hello M,

I hope you Christmas is bright!

Hope the New year finds you well!

Tgirl

[arwen]

Hi mlrp, I am not very active on SA, but I still browse it from time to time. Thank you for visiting on my thread a while back, for your very kind words. I appreciate it very much. 

 

I hope you enjoy the holidays, you have large windows, and the waves are short and weak or not at all. I wish you Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

[mlrp]

Hello, everyone,

 

I hope all are doing as well as possible in their journeys.  It was almost exactly a year ago that I first logged in here.  I'm doing ok - certainly on some levels, much better than a year ago. I wish I could say "all better" with a big grin on my face, but no.  But I will survive and eventually thrive. I come here to write these words, mostly to myself, but also to whomever else they may encourage.

 

I see I stopped posting sometime around the holidays of last year. That makes sense, as I look back, because life started getting very full and very hectic about that time, and it hasn't really slowed down.  I think I have a history of pushing the envelope once I start feeling a little bit better.  Don't know if that's a good thing or not. I must strive for balance, and not over-doing. And that is SO difficult for someone who was used to going at lightning speed and accomplishing so much in a day.  Systems that I used to be on top of seem to be crumbling around me. And yet, from the glass-half-full perspective - I'm doing things that probably a year ago I wouldn't have dreamed of.  I'm in a competitive leadership program at work and our house interior is in the process of being redone, floor to ceiling. But, honestly, I'm back to a) try to find new information and encouragement for my latest round of symptoms, and b.)let anyone who might still be interested know that I am still around.

 

Since November 2014 -- 

 

I've steadily tapered down my Remeron at 10% of current dose intervals so that I am now taking 13.6 mg. I was doing ok, but really struggling lately with some symptoms. I don't honestly remember the last time I had a true window - I think it was probably last year, except for literally a couple of amazing minutes one morning about a month ago.  

 

My gut (sometimes literally) is telling me that the road started getting rough around 15 mg, and may likely continue difficult down into the lower doses - because of how Remeron "works." I was doing pretty well with weight watchers and even getting in a little exercise, but since going below 15 mg, I have almost continual moderate- to low-level depression, I want to sleep way too much (I restrict myself to a range of 6 - 9.5 hours a night), and I am eating sugary things almost nonstop. And it's increasingly difficult to even get in touch with the part of me that has any concern over the eating - getting fat, risking diabetes, etc. It's very much like that part of my brain/psyche is turned off. 

 

I have also been having increased, generalized anxiety (leading to depression), and I think this may be that I have become tolerant to my 1 mg daily dose of Lorazepam (divided into .5 in the a.m. and .25 in the afternoon and evening). I will be damned to hell before I step up the dosage, though. But, suffice to say, life is not very comfortable these days.

 

Holding steady at 12.5 mg of Wellbutrin, 2x a day. I don't attribute any of my current difficulties to Wellbutrin, per se, but who knows? I haven't really focused on it much. Tapering too fast off of it was what got me here, though.

 

Naturally, and true to my nature, I am fighting the urge to accelerate my Remeron taper. I don't know if what I'm going through is Remeron poop-out, or that the lower doses are just by their nature going to be more difficult - since Remeron is more sedating and I'm guessing also more appetite increasing at the lower dosages - but I do so desperately want my life and my joy back. (Cue violins.) 

 

I did the math, calculating a 10% cut of current dose decrease every 4-6 weeks, and stopped doing the calculations at 2019 - and I still won't be clear of this crap.  It begs the question, in my mind, of the value of continually throwing this stuff at my brain for that long - even at lower doses.  So that what began as a supposed three- to six-month course in 2013 turns into a six-year odyssey?!  That psychiatrist lied to me - oh, how she lied - and she doesn't even know, to this day, whether I'm alive or dead. Let me add, though, that I'm too prudent to do anything rash. I've gotten good "advice" on these boards before, and I know that the 10% rule is safe and effective.  I am just keeping an open mind in considering what other means I might possibly have to take the dosage down at a faster rate.  

 

This is the place I turn to for fellowship, understanding, experience of others, suggestions and information that I trust. I'll be searching the boards for some more information and answers in the coming days.

 

I sure hope everyone's doing ok. I really have thought about all of you, quite often, during the last few months. I'll catch up as I'm able.  I can't promise consistency - my brain just isn't allowing that at the moment.  But I continue to work my 12-step program as a means to cope with this and the other challenges in my life.  These drugs, however, are by far and away, the biggest challenge I have ever faced - and that includes the relationship with my mother that prompted my "break" in the first place.

 

Love and Light to all of you. I am so grateful this board is still here.

[Addax]

So good to hear from you, mlrp. It sounds like, though bumpy, you're progressing right along with your taper. I know that urge to taper more quickly. I really, really do. All I can do is encourage you to fight the urge as best you can. I'm holding for several months right now and there are times when I just want the crap out of my body ASAP! But I've come to realize the befit of this long hold and I remind my self that in 5 years it will be five years later anyway so I mind as well Just taper as the time passes. I haven't calculated how long it will actually take because I plan on extra long holds between drops.

 

You're fighting the good fight!

[Altostrata]

Hi, mlrp, how are you doing?

[mlrp]

Hello. Posting here because I was on Wellbutrin. I've been getting a number of notifications of activity on this thread.  I owe it to those folks struggling and to those who walked my long walk with me here to identify myself as a success story.  As Alto and others have said, success stories tend to fall off once they start "living" again and don't post their stories.  I hope to post my story soon in order to provide hope.

 

I don't recall exactly when I stopped all medication -- I'd have to try and figure it out on a calendar. I'd say it's been at least two years.  What I can say is that I got off Wellbutrin and Remeron by tapering exactly as recommended on this site.  No more than 10% of my current dose, no more frequently than every month or so, using a homemade solution.  If you check out my signature in my last posts (or, I guess it will show up at the bottom of this post?), you'll see my last update shows me at 12.5 Wellbutrin and 13.6 Remeron in August 2014. But I continued to taper verrry gradually as advised here. I was down to .1 mg solutions in tiny oral syringes before I stopped. And still there were bumps in the road. Check out the posts in my thread if it helps -- I tried to document my progress in as orderly a fashion as possible to help others. 

 

Life has only gotten better and better.  Of course, there's more to the story which I hope to share in Success Stories.  The small irony is that I'm in the midst of about a two-week wave that is possibly the worst I've felt since coming off all meds. BUT I know now that meds will never be an answer for me and I use my toolbox of self-care to get me through challenging times.

 

Not sure when I will be back to write in Success Stories, but I will...!  Sincere best wishes to all.  Fasten your seat belt, support one another, and follow the guidance here and you'll be ok.

 

-mlrp

 

 

 

[Altostrata]

Very happy to hear you're doing better.

 

I added our cheerful "here comes the sun" symbol ☼ to the title of your Intro topic, to show you're recovering.

 

Please continue to let us know how you're doing. I hope you will add your story to our Recovery Success Stories eventually!

[Happy2Heal]

hi mlrp

 

how are you doing now?

 

I hope all is well with you

 

[mlrp]

URGENT REQUEST FOR GUIDANCE

 

Hello, all, I will apologize profusely later for not being more active on this website when I was doing well and could've helped others.  I need help now.  The topic is Lorazepam/Ativan taper.

 

I came off all psychological pharms by sometime in 2016.  Recovery was increasingly progressive since that time, including going through my mother's passing in 2018.

 

Fast forward to the start of 2021, and I was living my best life.  Healthiest I have ever been -- good weight, good clean diet, self-care largely in place, back to my joyful activity of jogging. 

 

Unfortunately from May - December of 2021, I went through a traumatic series of events concerning a toxic relationship (the details of which are not important to this post).  I ended up experiencing pronounced anxiety during the course of these months, plus a number of severe panic attacks.  I was finally in such poor shape (begging to be "hospitalized," severe insomnia for a few days), that I relented (much against my better judgement) and sought out medication.  

 

Dosing History:  On December 21, my GP prescribed Xanax 25 mg. and Hydroxyzine HCL 25 mg.  I still held out for a number of days, but  finally started taking 25 mg Xanax and 25 mg Hydroxy at bedtime.  The anxiety attacks persisted.  

 

On January 3, my GP switched me to Lorazepam 0.5 mg 2 x day (which I had been on for about 2-3 years approx 2013 - 2015.  The funny thing is, I didn't complete my dosing history in my signature, and I can't remember how I finally got off the Loraz, nor how difficult it was -- I'm sure it was, though.)

 

The Loraz and Hydroxy helped my anxiety and insomnia some (approx 6 - 8 hours of "sleep" at night).  But I knew I needed off of these things.  I contacted a Psych NP to discuss tapering the Loraz.  He wanted to put me on AD(s) and/or another Benzo to try to help me taper off the Loraz.  I refused.  He and I decided that, since I hadn't been on the Loraz but about nine days, I could cut my nightly dose of Loraz to .25 mg (and continue with the Hydroxy for sleep).  I did that as of 01/13.  

 

Looking back, I see that this was a 25% cut... so probably a huge mistake?  

 

I have been having increasing anxiety and panic attacks, losing more functionality (can barely watch TV, no reading, no writing), rocking, pacing, etc.  Extreme irritability, torturous generalized feelings of FEAR, etc.  As of about three days ago, I have been having what I can only guess are other increased symptoms of withdrawal.  Lack of appetite, food goes right through me, tremors, etc.  

 

I will continue to search the website here for answers, which served me so well in the past, but 

 

Please, please, please, any advice you could provide would be helpful.  How to taper, how long to wait between tapers, etc.  I am seriously losing my grip.  I do NOT want to be hospitalized, but at times, I beg for the "relief" that it would bring.

 

I am particularly clueless about how to taper down the Benzo dosages.  I think the smallest I will be able to find Loraz is in 0.5 mg tabs, which means I will be cutting imprecise shards of pills.  I doubt I could find liquid form.

 

I want my old, happy wonderful life back that I had in early 2021.  That at least should tell other sufferers that recovery is possible, and it's possible to come back better than ever.  I so regret going back on these meds (benzos).  I had no idea what else to do.  I was desperate.

 

My husband is my rock and my caregiver.  I may not be well enough to post updates here so I am giving him permission to update this thread on my behalf.  He will go by the name JO.  

 

Please, I am begging this wonderful community for any help or guidance you can offer.   

 

I will update my signature/dosages when I can manage it.  Right now it's:

5:30 p.m.  0.25 mg Loraz   

Bedtime about 9:30 - 10:00

11:00 p.m. 25 mg Hydroxy (plus another 1/4 tab)

4:00 a.m. 0.25 mg Loraz

Between 5:30 - 7:30 a.m. 0.25 mg Loraz

 

I am 60 y.o. female.

 

Thank you from the bottom of my heart. 

 

[Altostrata]

Hello, @mlrp You've been a member here for 7 years. I'm sorry to see that after all the work you did going off drugs, and finally success, you're back here with a new benzo problem.

 

Did you discuss how to go off drugs with your prescribers before you accepted them at the hospital? Have you asked this psych NP to help you out, now that his tapering recommendation went bad?

[mlrp]

Hello, Alto,

 

You are a lifesaver, truly, truly.  I will never be able to thank you and the other members of this community enough for the help I received in the past.  To answer your questions:

 

I never technically went to hospital.  Just visited my primary care doctor, who first prescribed the Xanax and Hydroxyzine and then quickly switched me to Loraz when the Xanax didn't seem to be "enough."

 

I didn't discuss how to go off the drugs with my Primary Care because, to be honest, I simply don't think she's knowledgeable enough to advise.

 

I turned to the Psych NP when I realized I was going to need help to get off of the Loraz.  I've had one meeting with him.  He at least seems to listen attentively and be open to my preferences (i.e., not wanting ADs, or another benzo).  But he laughed a little when I mentioned micro tapers and this website where people use things like jeweler's scales to measure doses.  So, I wonder how seriously he will take me and how much help he will be in the long-run.

 

I will contact him this week to discuss that the 25% dosage reduction isn't going well.  I will ask him if a liquid suspension might be able to be prescribed (I rather doubt he will agree even if it is), so I can taper in smaller percentages.  To be honest, I am skeptical and feel that he will simply push to put me on an AD or something else.  That said, I will keep an open mind and try to reason with him as coolly and firmly as possible. 

 

My current symptoms mimic intolerance, so I can't tell if this is withdrawal or intolerance, the answer to which I suppose would influence how soon I make another cut.  

 

Could this all be a result of my having been on Loraz in the past and my brain now reacting differently to it this many years later?  I've been on benzos less than a month this time -- but I know that is plenty of time to have problems with them.

 

These symptoms are horrific.  My initial panic attacks from mid-December were so horrible that I became desperate.  But the "cure" is as bad as, if not worse than, the "illness."  No point thinking how I might have done differently, but once I recover from this, I hope to God I remember this Hell and never touch another psych drug again, no matter what.

 

I simply can not thank you enough.  Any advice so appreciated!!!

 

If there are any resources to sympathetic doctors in the Washington, DC area who will help with tapers, please point me in that direction.

 

Thank you again.  

[Altostrata]

Intolerance??? We've extensively discussed adverse effects of benzos and tapering them since you started this topic in 2014.

 

I am flabbergasted that you're back asking about benzo tapering. Perhaps our kind @Frogie will answer your questions.

[Frogie]

@mlrp

 

I didn't read your whole story. I just looked at your signature but what I am reading, you have been on lorazepam since 2015? Or have you been off and now started again? 

 

If you were off before, why would you start again? Trying to get the whole story. 

 

Did the dr allow you to do your own taper back then? If he/she did, why wouldn't they let you know?

 

If I were you, I wouldn't tell them you were tapering so you get your full prescription and then you taper off at your pace. You are going to end up in trouble if they taper you off 25% all at once. 

 

You have to be your own advocate. I learned that the hard way with my dr. 

 

How do you talk to a doctor about tapering and withdrawal?

 

Here is some information on dr's that will help in tapering. I don't know if there is one in your area. You'll have to read through it.

 

 

If you could answer the questions I asked so I know what is going on I would appreciate it.

[mlrp]

If @Frogie could offer advice, I would so appreciate it.  Back when I was more active on the site, my main focus was on getting off of Wellbutrin and Remeron.  I left the lorazepam for last, and frankly didn't really focus on the information here about how to taper off of them... It seemed daunting to me at the time.  I also frankly don't really remember how I eventually got off of them.  I imagine I was probably chopping up pills into small crumbs at the end and "guesstimating," but somehow it worked.  

 

I will definitely research the site for any information available.  Thank you again, so much!  I see Froggie has replied.  I will read now. 

 

[mlrp]

Hi Frogie,

 

thank you for replying.  I will update my signature tomorrow to show my current dosages.  

 

I have been off benzos since at least 2016, if not 2015.  They were the last psych drug I tapered.  

 

I Got back on them about a month ago.  I even waited a few days before taking one, but the panic attacks were so severe I didn't know what else to do. Hours long.  Hours, sometimes most of the day.

Screaming, crawling around on the floor begging for "help," pacing incessantly, near incoherence.  I thought I was becoming psychotic. 

 

I Never would've gone back to them, except for the hell I was going through with the panic attacks/anxiety.  I realize now it was a mistake.  But to be honest, I don't know what else I could've done.  Lock myself in a room and scream and not sleep for days?  Well, I'm not far from that now, so have learned a lesson, I guess. 

 

i had different docs back in 2013 and did my own secret taper.  I was hoping to find a doc/np who would help me taper "publicly" this time.  

 

i need to go to bed.  I will update my dosage signature tomorrow.  In the meantime, my current dosage is bolded in the first post I added, dated today 22Jan.  Thank you!!!

[mlrp]

My current dosing, in case this helps.

 

5:30 p.m. 0.25 mg Loraz   

 

Bedtime about 9:30 - 10:00

 

11:00 p.m. 25 mg Hydroxy (plus another 1/4 tab)

 

4:00 a.m. 0.25 mg Loraz

 

Between 5:30 - 7:30 a.m. 0.25 mg Loraz

 

 

 

I am 60 y.o. female.

[Frogie]

@mlrp

 

j

Just tag me with the additional information.

 

Look at the thread I gave you on dr's. Maybe you'll get lucky and find one that will help you.

 

But after being on them before you can not be cutting them by 25% at a time.

 

I'll await your answers tomorrow.

 

Sleep well.

[mlrp]

@Frogie I don't know how to change my signature block.  Here is my current full dosage (plus I take healthy supplements - Bs and Omega 3s and probiotics):

 

On 01/05/2022, I was originally prescribed .5 mg Lorazepam 2x/day , plus 25 mg Hydroxyzine at night.  On 01/13,  I called the Psych NP for advice on how to taper off Loraz, and we decided on the following:

 

5:30 p.m.  0.25 mg Loraz   

Bedtime about 9:30 - 10:00

11:00 p.m. 25 mg Hydroxy (plus another 1/4 tab)

4:00 a.m. 0.25 mg Loraz

Between 5:30 - 7:30 a.m. 0.25 mg Loraz

 

I am 60 y.o. female.

 

I have been on this dosage for nearly two weeks (since 01/13).  Very bad withdrawal symptoms started about four days ago.  I am losing my grip. I don't know how much longer I can hold out before I ask to be hospitalized and I know what that will mean.  The terror in my head is torture.  

 

Funny, when I do get some sleep, I can sometimes get a few hours of good sleep.  I can feel myself sleeping and my brain is relaxed and feels good, like it's healing.  I have dreams (some good some not).  But this isn't enough to counteract what I go through when I'm awake. Conscious = panic.  

 

Should I reinstate the .25 loraz I cut out? 

 

I am going to turn this thread over to my husband, JO, to monitor and answer on my behalf (I will tell him what to write). I am barely holding on.  

[mlrp]

Here is my current full dosage (plus I take healthy supplements - Bs and Omega 3s and probiotics):

 

01/05/2022 - I was originally prescribed .5 mg Lorazepam 2x/day , plus 25 mg Hydroxyzine at night.  On 01/13, I called the Psych NP for advice on how to taper off Loraz, and we decided on the following:

 

5:30 p.m.  0.25 mg Loraz   

Bedtime about 9:30 - 10:00

11:00 p.m. 25 mg Hydroxy (plus another 1/4 tab)

4:00 a.m. 0.25 mg Loraz

Between 5:30 - 7:30 a.m. 0.25 mg Loraz

 

I am 60 y.o. female.

[Frogie]

@mlrp

 

That's a 50% cut of the lorazepam. That's huge.

 

If it were me I would reinstate and hold for a good month or so. Then taper no more than 10%a month.

 

Why taper by 10% of my dosage?

 

Dr Joseph Glenmullen's WD Symptoms Checklist

[mlrp]

@Frogie

This is MLRP.  I think it's "only" a 25% cut from original.

 

I was originally prescribed .5 mg 2x/day = 1 mg

 

I cut to where I was taking one half of the .5 mg = .25 mg

and the other .5 mg I split in two but took both halves = 2 x .25 mg = .5 mg

.25 mg + .5 mg = .75 mg total daily dosage

 

So, I think I'm taking a daily total of .75 mg, which would be a 25% cut from original.  

Should I still reinstate? To original script of .5 mg 2x/day?

 

Thank you.

[Frogie]

@mlrp

 

My mistake I didn't see the 4am dose.

 

I would still reinstate at this point and hold.

[mlrp]

Thank you.  I had to reinstate Wellbutrin back in 2013 when I made too drastic a cut.  I will discuss with my husband and decide.  I think I will have to reinstate. Thank you!

[mlrp]

All,

 

PLEASE DO NOT JUDGE.  PLEASE.  I BEG YOU.  DO NOT JUDGE.

 

I was hospitalized 27 Jan 2022.  Traumatizing hell.   

 

Since then I have been through Effexor and Clonazepam hell.  I now believe that I am borderline psychotic as a result. 

 

I am off the Effexor, and had to partially reinstate the Clonazepam as of today, after doing a hatchet job on both tapers.  YES, I KNOW/KNEW BETTER.  PLEASE DO NOT JUDGE.  The hospital experience was so traumatic that I somehow left there on both of those drugs.  But I was in blind, non-stop panic when I went in and had been so, for weeks prior to. I was vulnerable.  PTSD and Panic Disorder are the diagnoses.  I do have PTSD, there is no doubt.  I don't have the bandwidth to explain that right now. 

 

I don't know how it is that I'm typing this.  I go into blind panic looking at anything - email, social media, books, tv.  It has been this way for over a year and worsening.  I live in my head, trying to keep it blank.   

 

I am housebound and my husband can't leave me alone for longer than about an hour.  I am hoping that the partial reinstatement of Clonazepam will stabilize me somewhat.

 

I am on FMLA leave without pay from a dream job and will have to retire years before I intended to.  

 

I don't know when I will be able to be back online to further discuss, but I will be back as soon as I can. 

 

 I suppose I am no longer a "success story."   PLEASE DO NOT JUDGE.

 

I MUST come back from this because my life is more of a living death at the moment. 

 

I ask all those of a spiritual nature to pray for me or send healing vibes.   Thank you.

[mlrp]

I should add:  I had to updose the Clonazepam, not reinstate.  I was in the final stages of trying to taper, so not completely off of it.

 

I am also now back on Remeron for appetite stimulation because I have become dangerously anorexic. 😞 I am literally in fear for my survival.

 

I don't know when I will be back.  As soon as I can stabilize, I guess.  Even posting this is triggering panic.  I hadn't even looked at a website in months, until I came here to look for info on tapering benzos.

 

I didn't have much trouble tapering lorazepam in 2013-2015, but Clonazepam... another story.