degen12: Starting SSRIs as a child, and The SSRI Enigma

[degen12]

I'm glad my posts were helpful, but I'm concerned that you're out of diazepam. Diazepam does have a long half-life, however, it's very dangerous to run out of benzos. I also have to wonder about the role of benzos - especially a very sedating one like Valium - and your level of chronic suicidal depression. Klonopin, another type of benzo, was very much linked to my suicidal thinking and I'm very happy to finally be off that drug. 

 

You're going to feel a whole lot better once your mind is free of these neuro-toxic drugs. I hope you're able to work with us and set up a careful taper plan for your drug cocktail, stick to it, get free, and go onto finish your studies. If you think of it as just a "phase" in your life and not who you are, it will free you up to chart your own course in life. And once you get a game plan for your meds, you're free to concentrate on getting to that next phase. 

 

Please give us an update. I hope you're able to get your diazepam refill soon. 

 

Thanks for your post Shep.

 

I take 20 mg diazepam.

I used to take 6 mg clonazepam (= 120 mg diazepam).

 

I got to this dose over a multi-year taper. Although I've been at this dose for ~1 year, I am in withdrawal even when I don't miss doses.

 

I ran out of diazepam a day early because I double-dosed earlier in the week. It means today is a rough day but I've gotten through it many times before.

 

Since I've taken benzos for ~7 years, I link my suicidality with Lyrica, which I started much more recently and seemed to be the catalyst for this sort of thinking.

[degen12]

I hope you're able to work with us and set up a careful taper plan for your drug cocktail, stick to it, get free, and go onto finish your studies. If you think of it as just a "phase" in your life and not who you are, it will free you up to chart your own course in life. And once you get a game plan for your meds, you're free to concentrate on getting to that next phase.

 

This is something I'd really like to do. The support here is wonderful.

 

I don't know how I'm going to plot the taper, that is the biggest problem. How do I get started? Should I make a spreadsheet for say, the next 6 months?

[SquirrellyGirl]

You can do that, though ultimately you must listen to your body and not rush a taper when the body says "Whoa!"  I worry that doing the spreadsheet will discourage people when they project out and see how long this will take, causing them to hasten the taper and subsequently crash.  Doing this will SLOW YOU DOWN since up-dosing and getting stable again will add TIME to your journey.

 

Given that, here is a spreadsheet to help:  http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7601-excel-spreadsheet-to-calculate-dose-weights-using-a-scale/

 

SG

[JanCarol]

Hey Degen - 

 

You wrote:

 

 I would appreciate any comment from anyone who has heard of or experienced this Bipolar II like mixed state associated with psych med instability. 

 

LOL  I was the queen of mixed states.  Laughing and crying, manic and depressed.  I was diagnosed Bipolar II.

 

I have since come to believe that these mixed states were drug induced.  I had no idea how much the drugs - the going on them, off them, on them again, off them again - coupled with stressors in my life - caused me to manifest my moods, my mental states of DP/DR, some plain crazy-arsed manic stuff -

 

I've since learned that all changes in these drugs are disastrous to mood.  Whether you increase, decrease, go on, go off - change the mix, the cocktail, adjust this, lower that - it doesn't matter.  Each one of these changes affects mood.

 

Until you stop upping and lowering dosages, until you stay on the SAME doses, the SAME things for at least six months - you won't really know what your "state" is.  It's the drugs talking.

 

It's hard to accept, I wanted to believe I was exceptional, I could be in charge of this - but that was the biggest delusion of all.  The drugs are designed to fiddle with the brain, and they do that job admirably.  Sometimes the effect is desirable, often, the long term effects are disastrous.

 

Please stay on the same doses of the same drugs for at least 3 months, maybe as many as 6.  No tapers, no switches.  Find out more about what your "base state" is.  Then you - and we - will understand better what we're dealing with.  

 

You had a lot of changes just last month, and you will be rattling from those changes for a few months to come.

 

One of the habits that gets us into these messes is:  "I don't feel right, I will take something."  Or, when tapering, "I don't feel right, I'm going to drop this drug or that one."

 

A better response is:  "I don't feel right, what is it?" and sit with it.  Experience it, learn from it.  Let your body and your symptoms be your teachers. 

 

And you don't need to induce more symptoms by adjusting your drugs for this to happen.  Inducing symptoms by switching drugs - only escalates the drama, the problems, and hastens the journey into long, painful decline.

 

You are highly intelligent and I think that might get in your way sometimes.  You want to analyse and rationalize, when really, sometimes, the best strategy is to be.

 

When you have been stable for at least 3 months, then consider tapering the "worst" drug first.  You may not get all the way down to zero before you find you need to switch which drug you are tapering, but KIS:  One drug at a time, with plenty of time in between changes to ensure your success.

 

Many of us have come down from cocktails, You can, too.  Really - for whatever you've heard of Anatomy of an Epidemic, it really is a brilliant read, and will help you understand the process of what has happened to you.

[Shep]

Great post, JanCarol.

 

My bipolar 1 diagnosis, as well as every other diagnosis including the schizoaffective one, are no doubt "created" chemical imbalances as the result of these drugs.

 

And I also recommend Robert Whitaker's "Anatomy of an Epidemic". 

 

This is a great article by Dr. Kelly Brogan from Whitaker's website, Mad in America:

 

Do 5 Million American Really Have Bipolar Disorder? 

[degen12]

Thanks for your post JanCarol.

 

It was very helpful.

 

Although sometimes I don't feel able to respond properly to posts, I read everything and appreciate it. 

 

A few people now have recommended Anatomy of an Epidemic. I definitely think that these drugs have created instability in me that otherwise may never have been present.

[degen12]

Here are my changes since 1 year ago when I last posted.

 

Lyrica 600 mg (300 twice a day) -> 450 mg (150 mg three times a day) -> 300 mg (100 three times a day). However most of the time I forget my afternoon dose and so now it looks more like 200 mg (100 mg twice a day). Optimally I would like to get back to 3x day dosing as that is what worked for me and I experience some withdrawal leading up to my evening dose. These are bigger jumps than this forum recommends and I wouldn't recommend it, but it worked out well for me.

 

Lyrica at that dose was screwing with my mood very badly and I'm glad I prioritized lowering it first before dealing with other meds.

 

I tried lowering my dose when I was taking it twice a day and I got bad withdrawal in between doses that way. For me the best way to avoid bad withdrawal (hot and cold sweats, akathisia, worse-than-usual anxiety and panic, chronic pain reasserting itself) was to switch to 3x day. 

[degen12]

I couldn't write during the period when I was taking 600 mg and I have very little memory of it. Not to get too dramatic but I feel like a fog has lifted and I can see more clearly what's going on in my life. I definitely don't like what I see, but it's better than not knowing what's going on and I had no clue what was going on while taking Lyrica 600 mg and don't have too much memory from that time. I hope to communicate here more often. I am really out of practice with writing which is sometimes I thought I was kind of good at.

 

Another thing I don't have too much of these days is akathisia which always caused me to feel suicidal. I think long-term SSRI (years) would be tightly associated with chronic akathisia if it was ever studied (different in tonality and 'feel' from the acute akathisia from starting SSRI and acute withdrawal although similar in tonality to the akathisia seen in chronic withdrawal states but I'm not a scientist or doctor this is just what it feels like to me from having been in all of those different states of akathisia and my subjective interpretation). 

 

I got some advice here to stabilize my meds and it was good advice. The yoyo was flaring that chronic akathisia big time and I think it's the mechanism by which screwing with my meds too much causes suicidal feelings for me. 

 

The stabilized my med with the exception of Lyrica because it was causing really severe and scary forgetfulness which i think was a safety concern. To give perspective it was worse than when I was taking clonazepam 6 mg a day.

 

I did use propranolol briefly (switched from my Bystolic which is also a beta-blocker) which was A+ for me at stopping akathisia episode but has some of the worst side effects ever in a medication I didn't dare take it for more than a week. If I was suicidal from akathisia and had to go to the hospital and for some reason was given a choice I would take a short corse of propranolol. (I have to be careful as it can be interpreted as agitation and treated w/ antipsychotic thankfully I have had the wherewithal to explain this as I have been in this situation a couple of times now).

 

I doubt I will make any changes for a long while yet now I am focused on building some relationships and hopefully the good weather will help provide opportunities for doing that. Going camping in a couple of weeks with my dad which is a big development for me.

[degen12]

Having read my post and not been on these forums for a while and just read the new rules I wanted to make clear that I'm not advising anyone add anything to treat akathisia. That's not my place and this is site for removing drugs... Although for me akathisia can have emergency complications and thus I have used drugs to treat it in the very worst cases with the blessing of my doctor by far the best thing for me is to prevent those worst akathisia episodes by maintaining stability by not adding new drugs to treat side-effects from my withdrawal (something I used to do a lot). That advice has been a godsend for me as even the most experienced pharmacist or armchair pharmacologist (used to be me.. thought I juggle things because I read all the literature on PubMed.. wrong) cannot foresee the interactions when many drugs are used together.. it becomes very unpredictable regardless of knowledge.

[degen12]

Having trouble getting interested in doing anything and going outside. Sucks cause the good weather is here. I wonder if I just sit outside that will somehow make it better, lol.

 

Frustrated with mirtazapine. Stuff makes it impossible to have a flexible schedule and if you have a late night for any reason your sleep schedule is done for a week.

[AliG]

Hi, Degen. It's nice to see you back again. It sounds like you are stabilizing and understanding the benefits of that. Well done.Your dosing schedule is a little confusing. Is there any way you could simplify it? Forgetting a dose, although understandable is not an ideal way to achieve stability. Please take your dose each day at the same time.

 

I understand how the Mirtazapine can mess up your sleep and it's something to watch. Have you increased your dose? It looks like you have from your signature.

 

Sitting outside with a little sun is always therapeutic. If it helps then you should make it a part of your day. We all need more vitamin D.

[degen12]

I got confused and thought I increased my mirtazapine dose back to 30 mg. I did successfully decrease my dose from 30 to 15 mg in April 2016. Sometime in between now and then I tried to decrease to 7.5 mg but had terrible nausea and other side effects from the super high cut so I just went back to 15 mg and figured I'd do it proper another time, as Lyrica is much more of a priority at the moment. Anyhow somehow I got the idea that the half pill I take was 30 mg and thought when I went back to the half pill from the quarter pill I went from 15 -> 30 mg. I've fixed up my signature. I was on 45 mg for a while, decreased to 30, and now am steady 15 mg for a while, it's generally been a very successful withdrawal with 45 -> 30 mg was utterly painless, 30 -> 15 mg was pretty easy but cutting in half now is just way too much obviously at 50% of dose and the slow cuts have to begin and I'm just not ready for that protracted process mentally, but yea I am pretty frustrated.

 

Lyrica dosing is not nearly as smooth as it could be as you gathered and what constitutes morning, mid-day, and bedtime are completely different each day.

 

Thanks for stopping in.

[degen12]

Here is my dosing schedule. It comes neat in a blister pack from the pharmacy.

 

Wake up : Cipralex 10 mg, Lyrica 100 mg, Bystolic 5 mg

Mid day : Lyrica 100 mg

Bedtime: mirtazapine 15 mg, Lyrica 100 mg, diazepam 20 mg

[AliG]

You have had some dramatic changes in dose and therefore some associated symptoms to go along with that. It's understandable at this point that you are feeling the effects of those changes.

 

While you say it's been painless it often has a way of catching up with you further on in time. Unfortunately it can often take months to stabilize after this.

 

You said you were skipping a dose of Lyrica. Are you still doing that?  It's best if you stay even with your dose for now 3 x daily.

 

What are you taking the Bystolic for? Blood pressure?   

[degen12]

You have had some dramatic changes in dose and therefore some associated symptoms to go along with that. It's understandable at this point that you are feeling the effects of those changes.

 

While you say it's been painless it often has a way of catching up with you further on in time. Unfortunately it can often take months to stabilize after this.

 

You said you were skipping a dose of Lyrica. Are you still doing that?  It's best if you stay even with your dose for now 3 x daily.

 

What are you taking the Bystolic for? Blood pressure?   

 

Yea but I've been more or less on mirtazapine 15 mg since April 2016. Briefly I went to 7.5 mg, maybe for a a week or 2, but went back to 15 mg because of the nausea. I really only included it as a note that 50% cut is too much and don't do it again.

 

I agree about the Lyrica. It should be 3x day and I feel the withdrawal pretty acutely towards my last dose. Thing is if there aren't any set markers in my day (breakfast, lunch, dinner, these things may or may not happen on any given day/night, if my "day" is during the daylight hours or at night is pretty random as well) how do I get it stable. In the end I have myself in a bit of a corner and I have to get a decent circadian rhythm with a steady wake/sleep time. I'll have to find the motivation somewhere that's on me. I'm really hoping some things I have planned this summer will jump start me because apathy is the real enemy and I get in self-destructive moods. I have to be mindful to keep my eyes on the target - a drug free life, and all the benefits that will come with that. It's really easy for me to lose sight of all the gains I've made.

 

Take the Bystolic for Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome.

[degen12]

Thanks for your input by the way.

[degen12]

Unfortunately I have panic attacks now when I leave my house since I haven't really left it in about a year except for a doctors appointments and now those are very very rare as I don't want to leave if at all possible. But at the same time I see these problems I can feel very apathetic about it because a part of me says I am just want to minimize my discomfort until it's time to die (not in a suicidal way). It hurt me much more than I thought when I moved to the exurbs of my city. Lost all my connections which I was pretty naive to think things would carry on the same way. Anyway I know this is psych drug withdrawal forum not psychotherapy forum just want to stress that for me my main enemy is that I forget why I am withdrawing and putting effort into it because there isn't anything to look forward to at the other side. (Need people to enjoy life with and frequent social contact, a solid community I identify with to give and receive in order to feel motivated to do anything but self-stimulate)

[AliG]

Mirtazapine is not a drug to be dismissed. I was on it and it had a very harmful effect. Hopefully you can taper off that slowly as well, eventually.

 

Can you set a timer on your iphone for your Lyrica? Are you not sleeping?

 

I'm glad you have made some gains as that gives you some forward momentum during this process. What gains have you made so far?

 

We like to know these things.   They are always helpful for others going through this experience.

[degen12]

Looks like we posted at same time.

 

Setting a timer is a good idea. Every 8 hrs.. I didn't sleep last night. Been at the screen for 12 hrs. I will have to take the mirtazapine soon which will knock me out for 8 hrs.

 

Some of the gains.. Akathisia is less. Don't have the insane hunger I did. Don't have rage episodes anymore and am not snappish. Uhh.. Less dilated pupils and light sensitivity. No more muscle twitches.  Less DP/DR. The neuropathies I was developing in the form of burning tongue, burning lips, other stuff gone away. Less compulsive behavior. This was all stuff that was very apparent at 45 mg mirtazapine.

 

No more suicidal thinking just passively wanting to die which is a big improvement.

 

Way better memory when I dialed down the Lyrica. Can hold a thought in my head. Can speak properly. Don't have to write everything down to remember it. Mood is better (my suicidal thinking really improved with the Lyrica cuts even as I encountered some withdrawal). Pain did not get much worse at all was pleasantly surprised.

[degen12]

I lost about 15 lbs so far after dialing down the Lyrica and mirtazapine and it seems stable now. My blood tests were showing high blood sugar, high triglycerides and my liver was showing non-alcoholic fatty liver disease on ultrasound so it's probably done a lot of good for my health long term as well.

 

I would never dismiss mirtazapine I took 90 mg a few times and even ended up in the hospital with serotonin syndrome doing that. I was screwing with olanzapine and Lamictal at the that time too though what a messy memory. That was a couple years ago quite far I've come since then. Edit: Oh and stimulants too lol, in addition to all of the stuff I take now I was doing crazy high mirtazapine doses, olanzapine, Lamictal, and boat loads of Dexedrine. Yeah the more I think back this level of stability is really really good but I could still do better gonna set this alarm now.

[AliG]

You are not on your own.This is what these drugs do. I sometimes still have trouble leaving the house now but I just push through.You have to at least try to go past your comfort zone. It is one of the hardest things but you have to keep trying. Eventually, as the drugs lessen it becomes easier.

 

Less akathisia is great and all the other gains as well. You are doing well.

[degen12]

These changes happened since I last posted:

 

- Got my Lyrica to 150 mg (gradual effort since I posted in the Summer). This was made possible by getting the 50 mg pill size. From 300 mg (100 mg x3), I went to 200 mg (100 mg x2), and now 150 mg (50 mg x3). I had sweats and hot flashes at each cut but otherwise felt quite well. No further plans for Lyrica at the moment. I'll be focusing on mirtazapine in the New Year. Pleasant upside is better memory, mood, and increased creative energy.

 

- Reduced mirtazapine from 15 mg to 7.5 in October. Also made possible by getting the 15 mg pill size (smallest in Canada), and splitting in in half. This is obviously too large a cut at 50% but it worked out ok. It's hard to believe but I'm sleeping better on less mirtazapine. I feel tired at the end of a day. Also less irritability and specifically less rages.

 

Recently I tried to make another 50% cut to mirtazapine, to bring it to 3.5 mg, but that created unacceptable withdrawal (no appetite and losing too much weight), so I increased to 7.5 mg which provided relief. Now I'll be making a liquid for small cuts. Probably 1 mg.

 

Still no plans for Cipralex or diazepam. They will wait until I'm done with Lyrica and mirtazapine. Also I've been taking them for much longer so I expect a much more protracted withdrawal with much smaller cuts.

 

Overall an extremely productive year.

 

Unfortunately family doesn't see it that way. There is a lot of external pressure to start school in January, but with residual withdrawal and a very stressful holiday season I think it's a recipe for failure. Perhaps this is fortune telling but I have a pretty good read on my capabilities at this point. Also even after years of trying different ways of explaining, but people close to me really don't have any clue how drug withdrawal works and how intense it can be. I don't blame them, but it's still frustrating.

 

Over the last years I dumped psychostimulants, mood stabilizers, and anti-psychotics, but I don't get recognized for it. I don't want an award or anything but some recognition that I accomplished something difficult from my loved ones would be nice.

 

I try and go out every day. That seems to keep the panic in check. Staying inside for a couple of weeks and I'm afraid to see anyone and get panic attacks when I leave.

 

I threw out all my as needed meds as akathisia is gone for the most part and I didn't want to have all this Dexedrine, propranolol, cyproheptadine, and others lying around anymore. Felt good not having so many drug containers in my side table. Now I get a weekly blister pack and that is all the drugs I have at my disposal for a week. A relief.

 

 

[degen12]

Just finished my first week of Lyrica 150 > Lyrica 125. Very easy. Getting the 25 mg pills was a huge help by allowing me to make this modest cut. Also with my pills in a weekly blister pack I don't have much of an option but to comply with the goals I set for myself. Like it would have to get pretty bad before I called my doctor to ask for an increase in dose.

 

Life has been pretty good. The main sore spot is that I am still very lonely and I have 1 real life friend and I don't see him very often. My family and especially my mom tries hard to keep my company. I enjoy their company very much but I still need some friends of my own age to talk to. Still having some anger issues as well.

 

I've also been battling a gaming addiction and I have very good news on that front. I quit almost completely. The "big empty" is still there but I know how to handle those feelings better now. I journal. It's not a cure to loneliness but at least I can make plans and keep track of my progress so I don't go completely apeshit. I would highly recommend journaling, it has been a huge boost to me in the last 6 months.

[degen12]

Wow very nice to be able to look at my posts over the years and see my progress and development. Thanks to the all the mods and Alto for keeping this place going for so long.

[degen12]

Next year will be 20 year anniversary of taking SSRIs.

 

Trying to get rid of all the the stuff I haven't taken as long before I deal with it. The strategy I'm using is taper first the medications I have been on for the least amount of time.

 

It should go Lyrica -> Mirtazapine -> Diazepam -> Cipralex.

 

Pending now Lyrica 125 mg -> 100 mg. Will make the change in 2.5 weeks. Larger than 10% but I'm confident about it. I'm concerned about getting below 100 mg with no smaller pill sizes to turn to. Looking at the Lyrica tips thread I could make a solution that lasts 5 days.

[degen12]

Dealing with the winter blues, holding on any changes until after my mood returns to normal. Usually that will happen after Daylight Savings Time begins, almost every year. Only a month to go.

[nz11]

All the best with the tapering.

[samanthaelizabeth]

On 1/27/2018 at 3:31 PM, degen12 said:

Next year will be 20 year anniversary of taking SSRIs.

 

Trying to get rid of all the the stuff I haven't taken as long before I deal with it. The strategy I'm using is taper first the medications I have been on for the least amount of time.

 

It should go Lyrica -> Mirtazapine -> Diazepam -> Cipralex.

 

Pending now Lyrica 125 mg -> 100 mg. Will make the change in 2.5 weeks. Larger than 10% but I'm confident about it. I'm concerned about getting below 100 mg with no smaller pill sizes to turn to. Looking at the Lyrica tips thread I could make a solution that lasts 5 days.

I have been on Zoloft for 200 MG( max dose) 19 years.  I also take mirtazipine ( which I will begin tapering soon).  I just hate these doctors!

[degen12]

Folks, of all the thing, I have cravings for olanazpine now. Just lol.

 

Don't worry (not sure anyone is, but just to make sure), I'm not going to ask my doctor to prescribe it. I'm not starting any new psychotropic drugs, ever hopefully, I just think it's an odd craving. Not sure if I mentioned it in my thread but I took it for a few months a couple of years ago, so that's where it comes from.

 

Otherwise, things are good. Still sweating a lot from previous mirtazapine and Lyrica cuts. Mood has stabilized and my sleeping pattern has normalized for the time being. Still holding for now but I feel like I'm on the right track.

[samanthaelizabeth]

On 11/7/2014 at 7:06 PM, degen12 said:

 

Though I believe in healing, I believe it will take much more than a slow taper to recover emotionally and physiologically from the train wreck that modern psychiatry has put me in. A slow taper is certainly the only place to start

Hi again!  D- you seem like a very nice, intellegent person.  I'm just reading your history now,  I wish you a safe (even if slow) healing.  Big Pharma does have a lot to answer for and yes it makes me angry as well.  But we cannot go back in time and change anything that brought us here.  I guess the best we can do is try to educate people, the the extent they will let us.  We are going to be okay!

[samanthaelizabeth]

On 2/6/2018 at 9:31 PM, degen12 said:

Dealing with the winter blues, holding on any changes until after my mood returns to normal. Usually that will happen after Daylight Savings Time begins, almost every year. Only a month to go.

I agree!  Although it gets to be about 115F here! But, I'll take that anyday over the cold and gloom!

[degen12]

On 2/14/2018 at 5:37 PM, samanthaelizabeth said:

Hi again!  D- you seem like a very nice, intellegent person.  I'm just reading your history now,  I wish you a safe (even if slow) healing.  Big Pharma does have a lot to answer for and yes it makes me angry as well.  But we cannot go back in time and change anything that brought us here.  I guess the best we can do is try to educate people, the the extent they will let us.  We are going to be okay!

 

 

Thank you for your kind words.

[degen12]

Lyrica 125 mg -> 100 mg as of today.

 

I was taking 50 mg in the morning, 25 mg mid-day, and 50 mg at night. Just called my Dr. to have the mid-day dose cut from my weekly blister pack.

 

I'm really happy. I was taking 600 mg this time in 2016.

[Blondiee1915]

Hi Degen12 - 

 

I read some of your story and just wanted to say hi.  Are you still on Luvox?  I am currently trying to taper it, but before that I was on lexapro for about 9 years.  I also can relate to the isolation and that feeling of loneliness.  It is hard being strong and continuing on with taper and have little support.  Like you I have my mom who is very supportive and a few friends but I do not share with my few friends my WD situation, they would not understand.  I don't get out as much, I work which I am thankful for, but other than that I am a hermit.  I am hoping to be able to do some social things when I feel somewhat better.  Have you looked into Meetup? 

[degen12]

@samanthaelizabeth I have experienced all of these at one point or another, and some of them for the entire duration of being on SSRIs. I have found them to be highly dose-dependent.

 

Many of the negative effects of SSRIs can be seen by looking at the effects of recreational serotonergic drugs and seeing what the opposite of that is.

Note that all of these effects may be useful to someone in a highly depressed state but are otherwise detrimental.

I also believe that these effects may also impair the growth of appropriate coping mechanisms to deal with future bouts of depression or anxiety. My development as a person dramatically slows when on the higher end of SSRI dosing.

 

- I called it the “SSRI Enigma”, but many better names could be given to it, because it’s not really an enigma at all. The idea is that SSRIs impair your ability to understand how SSRIs affect you. Probably related to state-dependent memory, it’s hard to remember what not being on an SSRI is like when you are under the influence of an SSRI, thus lowering your drive to withdraw. Dr. Peter Breggin calls it Medication Spellbinding. I wasn’t aware of his definition when I made my thread, so doubtless many people have had this idea in the past.

- Emotional constriction

- Loss of emotional amplitude

            - All emotions are felt less intensely. States of euphoria are highly muted.

- Loss of emotional range

- While euphoria is butchered, you won’t find yourself in such states often, and perhaps more troubling is the lack of some intense cathartic experiences such as those usually experienced at the loss of a loved one.

- Unable to fall in love

- Falling in love and the infatuation stage (still very important to long-term pair bonding) is characterized by low serotonin.

- Reduction in feelings of empathy

            - Loss of cravings for friendship and companionship

- Apathy and reduced motivation

- Loss of spirituality

- Not necessarily related to religion per se but can be. SSRIs reduce the ability to feel connected to something greater than yourself. States of spirituality are characterized by low serotonin.

- Time constriction

- Wish I could find the old citations I had on this. Anyway, the effect of serotonin on time is complicated but SSRIs increase the perceived flow of time. This is hard to understand unless you understand it’s opposite, time dilation, caused by many recreational drugs.

- Loss of long-term time horizon

- Dissociation

- Mild DP/DR is part and parcel of the high-dose SSRI experience, and even more so in withdrawal. Partly related to emotional constriction and partly related to the temporal effects of SSRI, I believe it deserves its own bullet point and future elaboration.

- The line between thinking and feeling becomes blurred.

- Thought constriction

- Less thoughts per minute (also related to time constriction). To top it off, less thoughts of impact per minute.

- Thoughts are less likely to be novel, reducing creativity.

                        - Reduction in lateral thinking

- Akathisia

- Impaired decision making

- SSRIs cause people to make riskier decisions. The problem is mtuli-fold. When under the influence of an SSRI, when evaluating between options, the riskier option somehow doesn’t seem as risky. Secondly, it becomes easier to choose the riskier option because the consequences of the riskier option going bad don’t doesn’t seem like such a big deal. Thirdly, since reward circuitry is impaired, riskier behaviour may be needed to elicit the same dopamine response.

- Mood disturbance

- Tardive dysphoria

- Tachyphylaxis

- Agitation and mood destabilization

[degen12]

15 hours ago, Blondiee1915 said:

Hi Degen12 - 

 

I read some of your story and just wanted to say hi.  Are you still on Luvox?  I am currently trying to taper it, but before that I was on lexapro for about 9 years.  I also can relate to the isolation and that feeling of loneliness.  It is hard being strong and continuing on with taper and have little support.  Like you I have my mom who is very supportive and a few friends but I do not share with my few friends my WD situation, they would not understand.  I don't get out as much, I work which I am thankful for, but other than that I am a hermit.  I am hoping to be able to do some social things when I feel somewhat better.  Have you looked into Meetup? 

 

Hi Blondiee, thanks for stopping by! I'm not on Luvox anymore, I switched to Cipralex (a mistake, but it's done now). I have looked into Meetup and my mom really wants me to go to some of the board game meet-ups, but I'm afraid of being awkward, come across as creepy, don't know the rules etc. All excuses not to do it. I thought CBT would be helpful but it wasn't. For me the answer isn't to psychologically manipulate the fear away, but to brute force it. I'll go into it with an attitude of I don't give a **** what happens, and I'll hold me head high no matter what. Loneliness is just so toxic to us. I'll take a look at your thread!