UselessSpork: Mirtazapine withdrawal, from 45 mg down to 3.9 mg

[UselessSpork]

Hey there ladies and germs, as it says in my signature i have been tapering off mirtazapine 45 mg for about 2 months now. i have just come off them roughly 3 days ago, and i was on them for about 9 months (11 if you count the tapering process) Now, i have almost too many questions to count about mirtazapine withdrawal. one thing i know for sure is that i feel like trash, im more depressed than usual, my mood swings on a dime, im anxious, i got headaches and i seem to be more intolerance to certain foods than i remember. Hopefully this is all from the withdrawal and not just my "old symptoms returning" because whenever someone tells me that, it only makes me think i need the drugs more. Anyways, im not sure if its me just noticing more food intolerances since withdrawing, or if i actually AM more sensitive to what i eat now.. but i am leaning towards me being sensitive to histamine, omega 6's and possibly gluten. I have read about withdrawals from certain drugs giving you intolerances to histamines and others, but i would like to hear peoples experiences with this.... its a long shot, but i can't find much online about it. If you have ANY experience withdrawing from mirtazapine please tell me about it, even if your symptoms have nothing to do with food intolerances.

 

PS: should i be taking amino acids or anything while withdrawing? or is that a bad idea... and i should just wait before taking things.

[Petunia]

Welcome UselessSpork,

I moved your post from the symptoms section to introductions, it will get a better response here.  You can use this thread as your own progress journal, add to it as you wish.  I don't have time to respond properly at the moment, but wanted to welcome you and bump your topic to page 1 where it will be noticed.

[dalsaan]

Hi UselessSpork,

 

I fear you have tapered off way too quick.   We recommend tapering at 10% of your previous dose.

 

Mirtazapine is a very potent antihistamine which could explain why you are having reactions in withdrawal.  Withdrawal symptoms mimic a lot of things so dont jump to the conclusion that it is your 'old symptoms returning'.

 

How's your sleep?

 

Dalsaan

[UselessSpork]

Hi UselessSpork,

 

I fear you have tapered off way too quick.   We recommend tapering at 10% of your previous dose.

 

Mirtazapine is a very potent antihistamine which could explain why you are having reactions in withdrawal.  Withdrawal symptoms mimic a lot of things so dont jump to the conclusion that it is your 'old symptoms returning'.

 

How's your sleep?

 

Dalsaan

Thanks for replying, sometimes i feel like i went off too quickly. But then somedays i feel completely fine almost all day... and i second guess myself and think "if im going through withdrawal shouldnt everyday be awful?" im just kinda lost. My withdrawal symptoms seem to be 95% mental, i dont have any flu like symptoms or anything else going on. can withdrawal be like that? purely mood swings, extra anxiety and depression? Also i had some insomnia the first 2 days off mirtazapine, but i have been taking 5htp and magnesium at bedtime and i have been sleeping well... although my depression and anxiety dont care about that ):

[mammaP]

Hi and welcome from me too. I agree with Dalsaan that you have come off mirtazapine way too fast and suffering withdrawal.

Doctors usually blame a relapse or return of depression when people get withdrawal, even when they were not taking the

drugs for depression! It is your brain struggling because the drug has been removed. 

I would  reinstate immediately at perhaps 10 mg to start with as you have only been off for a few days. Give it a week or so 

and if it has helped you can stick with that dose for a few months  to stabilise then start a slow taper from there. If it doesn't

help much you could increase slightly until you reach a level that is good for you. The lower the dose to stabilise the less it is

to taper from when you start again. 

 

I'm going to get some info for you. 

Tapering mirtazepine http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/5301-tips-for-tapering-off-remeron-mirtazapine/

 

About reinstating http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/7562-about-reinstating-and-stabilizing-to-stop-withdrawal-symptoms/

 

Withdrawal syndrome http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/603-what-is-withdrawal-syndrome/

 

The 3 KIS http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/6632-the-rule-of-3kis-keep-it-simple-keep-it-slow-keep-it-stable/

[dalsaan]

Yes withdrawal can come and go.  We talk about windows and waves.   There is a thread for this here - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/82-the-windows-and-waves-pattern-of-recovery/

 

and yes, your symptoms can be purely psychological but also the physical stuff goes way beyond flu like symptoms.   Dr Glenmullen has produced a checklist - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/2390-dr-joseph-glenmullens-withdrawal-symptom-checklist/

 

Not to scare you but you might want to look over it.

 

Sleeping is good, I highly recommend it for healing 

 

Dalsaan

[UselessSpork]

Thanks alot guys! i already feel better... i just cant think rationally when my heads all beefed up. To mammaP, even though i feel like trash, i am happy im off the meds and that i did it (barely). i think i can handle this bs ...unless of course it continues for weeks, then i might try going back on a small amount. I will look at the links you guys provided.

[dalsaan]

I recommend keeping a daily journal of your symptoms to get a clear idea on what's happening for you and how things are changing over time.  Because this stuff comes and goes (and does your head in!), it can be hard to remember what's happened.

 

If things don't turn around soon you might have to reinstate and taper off slowly.   Its better to do that and look after your brain then tough it out.

 

All the best

 

D

[UselessSpork]

I recommend keeping a daily journal of your symptoms to get a clear idea on what's happening for you and how things are changing over time.  Because this stuff comes and goes (and does your head in!), it can be hard to remember what's happened.

 

If things don't turn around soon you might have to reinstate and taper off slowly.   Its better to do that and look after your brain then tough it out.

 

All the best

 

D

Luckily i have been keeping a journal since this depression and anxiety started a year ago, i also use mood tracker. i see you are trying to get off mirtazapine aswell, let us be mirtazapine buddies.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Ah yes, but Dalsaan is tapering slowly off her medication to minimize withdrawal symptoms. You have gone off your high dose much too quickly. That will make a big difference in how you will feel.

[UselessSpork]

Ah yes, but Dalsaan is tapering slowly off her medication to minimize withdrawal symptoms. You have gone off your high dose much too quickly. That will make a big difference in how you will feel.

Yeah i really didn't think it would be this awful, i was just naive. Also hearing stories of people going off meds cold turkey and saying they didnt have any issues at all, certainly didn't help. Then you got stupid misinformation online saying how mirtazapine is relatively tame and withdrawal symptoms will probably be minor... baw. Well im already 7 days in, at least im making progress.

[dalsaan]

I've made the same decisions you did for the same reasons. Don't feel bad about it. The level of misinformation is huge. I tried to tough it out after cold turkey, lasted three months, it was pure hell. I was lucky that I could reinstate at that time and it resolved my symptoms. At that point it was very clear that it was wd.

 

I had been on it a lot longer than you though. Nonetheless, please don't let it go that long. If you are getting worse and/or your sleep falls to bits, think about reinstating.

 

How are you feeling today?

[UselessSpork]

I've made the same decisions you did for the same reasons. Don't feel bad about it. The level of misinformation is huge. I tried to tough it out after cold turkey, lasted three months, it was pure hell. I was lucky that I could reinstate at that time and it resolved my symptoms. At that point it was very clear that it was wd.

 

I had been on it a lot longer than you though. Nonetheless, please don't let it go that long. If you are getting worse and/or your sleep falls to bits, think about reinstating.

 

How are you feeling today?

Ahh i feel pretty awful, my general anxiety is in hardcore mode atm. My brain feels like its been steamrolled, i just feel pretty damn tense overall. I have been meditating lately trying to bring down the stress, it works well but its only temporary. My withdrawal overall is pretty goofy ... ill get one day where im super anxious and not depressed, then the next day ill be really depressed and not very anxious ..then the next day i might feel fine all day. Feels like my brain is trying to troll me >.<

 

PS: i have also been eating healthy and avoiding garbage food, and i have been buying supplements to help me out, But nothing seems to make a dent. i ordered some L-theanine for the anxiety and some Good quality omega 3's. I hear omega 3's can help you during withdrawals... have you or anybody you know tried omega 3's during withdrawals?

[dalsaan]

Yep, omega 3 is very good. There is a thread on it in the symptoms section - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

Magnesium is also good and usually well tolerated.

 

Go easy on anything else. Nothing 'fixes' withdrawal as such and many things exacerbate it. For example, b vitamins can be very activating for some people and will exacerbate anxiety. I would avoid anything other than omega 3s and a slow build up of magnesium

 

Dalsaan

[UselessSpork]

Yep, omega 3 is very good. There is a thread on it in the symptoms section - http://survivingantidepressants.org/index.php?/topic/36-king-of-supplements-omega-3-fatty-acids-fish-oil/

 

Magnesium is also good and usually well tolerated.

 

Go easy on anything else. Nothing 'fixes' withdrawal as such and many things exacerbate it. For example, b vitamins can be very activating for some people and will exacerbate anxiety. I would avoid anything other than omega 3s and a slow build up of magnesium

 

Dalsaan

Ahh thanks again. i have been taking magnesium at night for alittle while now to help me sleep, as well as 5htp. 5htp seems not to make anything worse.. and it seems to be kicking my insomnias ass, which is great. I am so glad i can at least sleep, even though i can feel my anxiety in my dreams some nights... but hey, cant win em all right? lol. I did try some B complex about a month ago during my taper, and let's just say my mind left my body and went to another dimension.... yeah that was fun. Again, thanks for checking on me! it helps.

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

US what you might want to do is start reading the stories of members who have come to SA for help with mirtazapine (Remeron) and see how they fared. Put this term in your favorite search engine:

 

survivingantidepressants.org mirtazapine

 

My search results numbered 2700+ entries. You may want to start thinking about reinstatement to relieve the symptoms you are getting from your rapid taper. Reinstatement does not always work but sometimes it buys you time and a decrease in the worst symptoms and then you can do a proper slow taper off the drug like Dalsaan is doing.

[UselessSpork]

US what you might want to do is start reading the stories of members who have come to SA for help with mirtazapine (Remeron) and see how they fared. Put this term in your favorite search engine:

 

survivingantidepressants.org mirtazapine

 

My search results numbered 2700+ entries. You may want to start thinking about reinstatement to relieve the symptoms you are getting from your rapid taper. Reinstatement does not always work but sometimes it buys you time and a decrease in the worst symptoms and then you can do a proper slow taper off the drug like Dalsaan is doing.

I shall search for that, thanks. If my symptoms don't get better soon enough i will consider reinstating, im just really stubborn.

[ang]

Hi US, I am sure that stubborn streak is something we all go through, but then we all seem to crumble..........   I wish you all the best with your reinstatement.  Why not reinstate, and reduce slowly? 

 

I was on mirtazipine, but by then my cocktail mix was very high, about a year ago.  It is labelled "rocket fuel" and I, luckily, I think?  never stayed on it long, my WD from it was masked by all the other drugs.  It is a nasty one, but then they all are.  

 

Are you presently working?  

[UselessSpork]

Hi US, I am sure that stubborn streak is something we all go through, but then we all seem to crumble..........   I wish you all the best with your reinstatement.  Why not reinstate, and reduce slowly? 

 

I was on mirtazipine, but by then my cocktail mix was very high, about a year ago.  It is labelled "rocket fuel" and I, luckily, I think?  never stayed on it long, my WD from it was masked by all the other drugs.  It is a nasty one, but then they all are.  

 

Are you presently working?  

Yeah i'm working at the moment. thanks for posting

[UselessSpork]

Just wanted to post here again. I am noticing i am starting to have a bit more good/ok days, just recently i went 4 days where i wasn't too bad. But alas i am going back down into the 'waves' at this moment. Hopefully they wont last too long and the next window will be longer. I am sleeping pretty well still, and i have an appetite... but my weight has plummeted despite eating nearly the same amount as before (just avoiding wheat and sweets) Anyone have experiences with crazy weight loss coming off mirtazapine?

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

Still not considering a reinstatement? I worry that your weight loss might be a prelude to more serious symptoms from abruptly stopping such a high dose of mirt. Have you found some people's threads to read about the problems they have had stopping that drug?

 

I hope you are going to be ok, withdrawal syndrome can get pretty bad and we'd hate to see things not turn out well for you.

[UselessSpork]

Still not considering a reinstatement? I worry that your weight loss might be a prelude to more serious symptoms from abruptly stopping such a high dose of mirt. Have you found some people's threads to read about the problems they have had stopping that drug?

 

I hope you are going to be ok, withdrawal syndrome can get pretty bad and we'd hate to see things not turn out well for you.

Well one of the original reasons i chose mirtazapine over other AD's was that it causes weight gain and gives you an appetite. At the time i was losing weight aswell and wasn't eating much, i have dropped now to the weight i was when i first started taking mirtazapine, although this time i have an appetite. I looked at a few topics about mirt withdrawal but i couldn't really find much on weight loss. so i made my own thread asking about the weight loss and someone said mirtazapine might possibly screw with your metabolism and how your body deals with fat. But i only got that one reply, As for the reinstatement... i dunno.. despite having some pretty rough days i am sooo relieved to be off that crap, i love saying that im not taking anything anymore. I know i might sound like im just ignoring everyone's advice but i feel so hopeless about the idea of throwing in the towel and going back on. All i hear about is how that crap ruins your brain and i just don't want anymore of it going through my system, but if my weight keeps dropping i will probably have to go back on. Thanks for posting and caring

[cymbaltawithdrawal5600]

US, it is not a case of throwing in the towel, it is a case of becoming very ill and having that last a very long time. If it gets to that point, reinstatement will not work and there is no help for it, no pill or supplement that will ease the awful symptoms. I know what it feels like, I went through misery for a whole year. WD syndrome did not happen until I had been off all the drugs for over a whole year although I know now it was starting well before that. I lost the ability to sleep and that was horrible.

 

These drugs affect every body system and are not very selective for weight loss/gain without having other bad side effects. That being said, unless someone has the same specific situation happening to them from that high a dose of the drug, I am not sure how that will be of any help. How will you go about putting the weight back on if it continues to drop?

 

I will not suggest reinstatement anymore as your mind seems to be made up. Please continue to read the Symptoms and Self Care forum for anything you can find and also the link to the search results I gave you. You may have to search the internet at large to find someone that is dealing with staying off mirt and having weight loss if no one has anything to say about it here. I have no specific ideas other than to continue to eat balanced healthy meals.

[Petunia]

I lost a lot of weight while I was in early acute withdrawal.  I needed to lose some weight, so at first it didn't bother me, but then it just kept falling off me and I started to get scared.  But as time has gone on, the weight loss slowed and stopped and now I've put it all back on plus more   but I'm still in protracted withdrawal and can't really do much about it at the moment.  I've been on these drugs much longer than you, you will probably recover faster. Its good you are able to sleep and have been having some ok days, I hope this continues.

 

If you don't want to reinstate, but are concerned with the weight loss, perhaps you could try eating more, especially of the heavier foods like meats, eggs and food that contains healthy oils like nuts and avocardos.

[UselessSpork]

US, it is not a case of throwing in the towel, it is a case of becoming very ill and having that last a very long time. If it gets to that point, reinstatement will not work and there is no help for it, no pill or supplement that will ease the awful symptoms. I know what it feels like, I went through misery for a whole year. WD syndrome did not happen until I had been off all the drugs for over a whole year although I know now it was starting well before that. I lost the ability to sleep and that was horrible.

 

These drugs affect every body system and are not very selective for weight loss/gain without having other bad side effects. That being said, unless someone has the same specific situation happening to them from that high a dose of the drug, I am not sure how that will be of any help. How will you go about putting the weight back on if it continues to drop?

 

I will not suggest reinstatement anymore as your mind seems to be made up. Please continue to read the Symptoms and Self Care forum for anything you can find and also the link to the search results I gave you. You may have to search the internet at large to find someone that is dealing with staying off mirt and having weight loss if no one has anything to say about it here. I have no specific ideas other than to continue to eat balanced healthy meals.

Just to be clarify, i was depressed and anxious before starting the mirt. I chose the mirt because i THOUGHT it would help my depression and anxiety, while also having the added benefit of giving me an appetite and making me gain some weight. The very first drug i tried was citalopram (celexa) and it made me go nuts with inner tension and restlessness. God its amazing they can get away with selling this garbage... it really is. Either way i shall continue to look for topics about mirtazapine withdrawal.

[dalsaan]

I lost weight when I went CT at one stage but that was because I was nauseas and couldn't stomach food.

[UselessSpork]

Ahh, yeah i have a weird case here. I have an appetite and im still losing weight, introducing the new mirtazapine withdrawal weight loss program! I bought some weight gainer powder today.

[Altostrata]

Welcome, UselessSpork.

 

Mirtazapine is notorious for weight gain; now you're off it, whatever effect it had on your appetite will diminish.

 

In terms of reinstatement, my guess is 5mg might be enough to soften whatever withdrawal symptoms you have. I would stay on it for a few months to let your nervous system accommodate, then taper off very gradually using a liquid.

[UselessSpork]

Thanks for the post alto

 

If things don't get better soon or if things get worse for some reason ill try going back on 5mg. Luckily my sleep is fine and my windows are not bad and give me the drive to keep going... the weight thing was my main concern. We shall see if this weight gain powder does anything.

[UselessSpork]

Gah, i think im at the end of my rope here. My mood shifts are ridiculous, ill be feeling good for a whole day to feeling suicidal, super depressed or really anxious the next. I guess this is how being bipolar feels... i mean jeeeesus. Although i know im not bipolar.. just withdrawals (never had these ridiculous mood swings when i was on the drug). Ill try taking around 5 mg tonight like you said alto. My original goal was to be depression free by the summer time, you think that's still possible with having to reinstate?

[Altostrata]

Possibly. It may be a good idea to look into non-drug ways to deal with your depression symptoms.

[UselessSpork]

Possibly. It may be a good idea to look into non-drug ways to deal with your depression symptoms.

Like supplementation or meditation and exercise ? if thats what you mean, i have been doing all of the above and the results seem to be really wishy washy. I mean the meditation does work ...no questions there. it just isnt enough on the bad days. the exercise can help and sometimes doesn't do anything. But the supplements are the most wishy washy of all, ill have something that seems to work one day.. then doesn't the next, or seems to work one time then makes me feel worse the next time. Most of them however, don't seem to do anything, with the exception of 5htp and magnesium, that do make me sleep better. Im still on the fence about fish oil impacting my mood for better or worse, but i will continue to take it either way. I think my brain is just too jacked up for anything to have an effect on it at the moment. its hyper sensitive to some things, while at the same time getting zero effects from supplements that everyone says works for them. It's all very aggravating trying so many things that i hear good things about, just to have nothing work. Baw...sorry im just frustrated at the moment.. im not mad at you, just angry at my circumstances.

[UselessSpork]

is it too late for me to reinstate? i was going through some withdrawals for 2 months while i was rapidly tapering as well, i had bad days but i could very much handle it.. but now that im 2.5 weeks off completely it has gotten alot worse. As you may have read in this thread.. i resisted the idea of going back on, but now having 2 completely unbearable days in a row.. i realize i need to do something. My question is.. is 2 months fast taper and 2.5 weeks completely off too long for a good chance to stabilize after reinstatement? I don't know if i can handle this .. and i need some relief, or i think im on my way to the psych ward.

[Altostrata]

Weren't we talking about reinstating yesterday?

 

There are no guarantees. It's just something to try. You'll need to give reinstatement at least 4 days of consistent dosing to assess whether it's helping or not.

[UselessSpork]

Yeah, we talked about it yesterday... but at the moment i posted i still thought i could handle it. Sorry my mind has been to another dimension and back within the past few days, I hope everyone isn't annoyed with me being stubborn ): Im gonna try taking 5 mg tonight and pray to a god i don't believe in that tomorrow i can get a window.... or that going back on doesn't make me worse. If anyone can message me about... anything that would be nice, i don't really have anyone to talk to about this stuff.

[Hopefull]

Hi ,

I am tappering off mirtz. If you need support message me. Cheers, hopefull.