Military documents link between insomnia and diabetes...omitting any mention of psych drugs

[westcoast]

https://www.afhsc.mil/documents/pubs/msmrs/2014/v21_n10.pdf

 

You have to scroll down to the second article. It is dense and full of charts. Of interest to me was what it did not say.

 

I was amazed that they said nothing at all about whether the research subjects were taking any kind of meds for insomnia, depression, or ptsd.

 

Seem likely that tons of military would be on Seroquel for sleep, ptsd, anxiety, and depression. And of course Seroquel can cause diabetes,

[ang]

Hi Westcoast.  I believe that ex army are just sent a box of meds every week..... yes antidepressants. 

 

"Th e most commonly reported method of self-harm was drugs, which were associated with 54.8% of suicide attempts "   that includes prescription drugs.  So one assumes to have access to prescription drugs, they must have been prescribed them.

[InvisibleUnless]

i havent had time to read the pdf yet (because it was marked as a warning site by the lame browser popup and im too tired/fogged to be properly safe presently), but independent research correlating insomnia with diabetes has been compelling, even outside the abnormal populations of servicemen or potentially medicated individuals.

 

studies, of course, cant truly properly isolate causal factors from one another, but its very reasonable to say that the neurological, hormonal, and other biological changes induced by sleep debt (or lacking particular aspects of sleep, like REM periods) contribute to many disease risks, like diabetes and cancer.  in this case, sleep, and our circadian rhythm, play a big part in insulin sensitivity, especially given the effects on eating timing and general habits related to the altered schedules of insomniacs---different portions, hours of consumption, and circumstantial food preferences, all of which are complicated by the differences in our digestive states and capacities, and subsequent energy distribution, that vary throughout the 24 (or 28+) hour cycle and are also changed by abnormal sleeping patterns.

 

psych meds, especially antipsychotics, greatly increase ones propensity to meet the diagnostic criteria of diabetes, and that has been proven beyond a doubt, so i definitely dont contend your guys points of the apparent omission of screening characteristics and the implications we can draw.  military = government = corporation = industry, and we surely must constantly consider the interconnection of the threats and trappings each aspect poses to the decisions we ascribe to different branches of the same tree.

[westcoast]

Interesting, but unless a study excludes the medicated or formerly medicated, they are in the mix. The potentially medicated? That is everyone.

 

In any case research in insomnia is welcome. Sleeping pills were the first solution, but they are not a good one.

[InvisibleUnless]

just had a chance to skim the methodology and such...the closest thing to mentioning meds is "Inclusion of variables indicating the presence/absence of depression, anxiety, PTSD, or alcohol dependence/abuse in the model resulted in an overall adjusted HR of 1.91 (95% CI, 1.75–2.08), a value essentially unchanged from the crude HR."

 

so, if someone had been categorized into one of those loose subsets beforehand, they would have a greater likelihood of being medicated, however, these studies are obviously jingoistic and the practice of data analysis is largely a political assessment of facts that can be arranged in quite a number of conflicting yet superficially coherent ways.

 

this states a lack of meaningful correlation between former diagnoses (and the higher potential for medication) with diabetes, but, if i recall, most servicemen are quite eager to avoid a mental health diagnosis.  that can quickly stymie or end your career or prevent you from getting the proper raises, awards, or assignments, which means its quite conceivable that a wide number of individuals could be medicating for these and similar issues without a case file bearing one of those diagnoses.

 

also, as everyone has already mentioned, insomnia is itself a highly medicated condition that is liable to contribute to diabetes and weight gain from the side effects.  interestingly, a lot of sleep medications/aids (like benzos, alcohol, and probably ambien if i recall) serve to inhibit REM sleep---even if you get more, deeper, or longer sleep sessions, the arguably most restorative phase is sometimes compromised, and REM deprivation is a greater contribution to weight gain and digestive dysregulation than disruption of most or all other sleep phases (insofar as they can be meaningfully separated).

[westcoast]

More research into insomnia is warranted. As long as pills are used as the treatment, we fail to find underlying causes and real solutions.

[InvisibleUnless]

i definitely agree.  most of modern medicine is focused on non-curative treatments that dont even seek to discover the underlying cause of chronic conditions.

 

have you read much on the dramatic changes in sleep cycles humans have gone through in the industrial and post-industrial eras compared to the agrarian and pre-agrarian?  sometimes what we think of as problems with our biology are problems with our environment and social habit, and i think that can apply to some cases of what we categorize as 'mental illness' or satellite conditions like insomnia.

 

evolution is fast enough to be visible and measurable, so we are seeing differences in human composition due to the incidence of more screentime (the light), changes in our food supply (habit-introduced genetic predisposition for diabetes, for example), and other contemporary factors, but adaptation is usually an exclusivistic thing...we are trading away parts of us that used to be important---and may one day be important again.  we shape our development as a species through the technologies and practices we choose to employ, and the custodianship of that power is not particularly well off under a system of radical capitalism.  then again, the western world is essentially on the brink of financial collapse due to these practices, so i dont think people will be facing quite the same issues in a few hundred (or a few thousand) years.

[westcoast]

 

Evidently Seroquel is being administered as a chemical sledge hammer to treat PTSD related insomnia:

 

http://www.pharmalot.com/2010/08/the-military-post-traumatic-stress-and-seroquel/

 

Risking Akathesia, Tardive Dyskinesia and Metabolic Syndrome to put a guy to sleep? That's almost "Cuckoo's Nest" stuff. Why should Congress need to investigate? What the heck is going on with the doctors prescribing Seroquel in the first place when there are a plethora of less dangerous sleep aid alternatives?

 

I'm not a physician. But I don't get it.

 

BTW, from the link:

 

"Seroquel is now the VA’s second-biggest prescription drug expenditure since 2007, behind the Plavix bloodthinner. The agency spent $125.4 million last fiscal year on Seroquel, up from $14.4 million in 2001

 

That's a lot of insanity...

comment from:

http://carlatpsychiatry.blogspot.com/2010/08/was-cafe-study-manipulated-by.html

[InvisibleUnless]

plus seroquel really sucks as a sleep aid :-p

[westcoast]

I thought it was a conker-outer. I find the best sleep aid is reading until my head drops to my chest. Note time of last post

[InvisibleUnless]

my insomnia bested benzos, antipsychotics, ambien, trazodone (TCA?), and several different combinations thereof (in addition to my daily maintenance antipsychotic, antidepressants, anxiolytic, and anticonvulsant).  as you said about yourself, there was just never a workable alternative to simply tiring myself out to the point of being incapable of thought or action....the natural, albeit 12 hours belated, way.  the antipsychotics cause a reversed circadian rhythm for me, so im often sleeping at 5AM or later, both on them and during my AP-heavy periods of withdrawal---which is most of them.

 

i feel like copyright infringing your sig about copyright infringement.  (though, more seriously, putting a note there does nothing towards your rights.  the bbs hosting company prolly has free use of your posts, and then you have whatever contract with this specific board that i dont remember the details of---you might not be giving anything up, and then beyond mediums, you retain ownership of your personal expressions regardless of what rights you claim in writing.)

[westcoast]

I saw that the admin had one and I wanted one too. Maybe mine's too big. I think I'll mix it up a little. T

 

here's something in a help, guideline, support or privacy page, here that says we own CR to our own posts, for what that's worth. I want to disown most of mine.

 

I didn't have insomnia before all this. "Before" is six years ago, so it's possible this is normal aging, but I think not. Did you? Mine was an abrupt onset after an unfortunate meeting in my brain of prescribed chemicals that would probably explode if they were in the same beaker. But I'm used to it. I actually get annoyed when I notice dawn dawning. The black of night is my "me" time.

[InvisibleUnless]

hah, this new one is much more fun.  i like that SHRINKIATRY GHOULS is what stands out above all the rest of it.

 

i do NOT at all buy the "normal aging" excuse.  so many things ive experienced have been chalked up to that, and the more i healed from the bullsh*t of western medical science (withdrawal, etc), the more those supposedly normal things improved!  stuff like medication weight gain, withdrawal jaw structure changes, general fatigue, chronic infections, insomnia, memory collapse, etc.  doctors and the everyman are quick to tell you that a lot of the bad things you are experiencing healthwise are normal because explaining the true reasons behind those issues would mean contradicting the current medical system of profit.  science is wielded by the most monied, which means the aims of science are not knowledge but application---profiteering extraction.

 

ive had sleep problems my entire life, but an interesting thing i noticed after quitting meds is that i sleep better without them.  they never helped me sleep, aside from the daily antipsychotic 12-hour comas that wouldnt leave me feeling rested and energized anyway.  in withdrawal, ive had some fairly bad insomnia in some of the phases, but its nothing like what i went through while still on the meds.  i was going weeks on end sleeping only every other night while on the meds, and skipping a minimum of 1-3 nights a week for years.  i was working 10-day workweeks on 1 hour of sleep, and sometimes just 0 hours of sleep.

 

there are times, in withdrawal now, that ive not had much trouble getting to sleep.  those periods are rare, and right now im in the reversed day/night cycle portion of antipsychotic withdrawal again, but i sleep better off the meds, and most symptoms i took the meds to treat in the first place (unsuccessfully, no less) have improved since i quit meds.  i always liked night, and felt more creative and open at night, but when i cant sleep until 5-8AM, i dont usually feel properly rested when i wake up, even if i get enough hours in.  but im more confident than previous years that being through all of this will help stuff even out most comfortably...its just a matter of time.

 

having all these problems has given me a greater faith in the human biology, and our power as evolving and ancient beings.  the universe and such.

[westcoast]

I dont know how i lost track of the convo. Sorry, i left your nice answer all alone here for so long. Thanks for replying. I think the action in else now...slinking off to find it.